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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1150748 times)
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July 01, 2015, 10:31:50 AM
 #3341

With other pos coins weight goes up over time. But with CLAM my weight is constant and equals amount of coins? Or something is off with my client?
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July 01, 2015, 11:20:22 AM
 #3342

With other pos coins weight goes up over time. But with CLAM my weight is constant and equals amount of coins? Or something is off with my client?

Age is not a factor in the CLAM stake kernel; ergo, the weight will not go up over time.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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July 01, 2015, 12:10:02 PM
 #3343

With other pos coins weight goes up over time. But with CLAM my weight is constant and equals amount of coins? Or something is off with my client?

Age is not a factor in the CLAM stake kernel; ergo, the weight will not go up over time.


That explains it. Thanks!
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July 01, 2015, 12:33:02 PM
 #3344


So to effectively stake I should invest my CLAMs at Just-Dice? Is there any real downside to that?
I had thought they would constantly stake, but I only have my computer on for a few hours a day, so guess it isn't going to be worth it in the clam wallet.

I updated to the new wallet and now it says I should stake in 1 day! A big difference!

If you invest at Just-dice you will make more money, but you will be contributing to CLAM being centralized.

I have read what was written above your post but i still dont get it. Why do you earn more staking on just-dice? As far as i know clams are spread proportionally to the amount of clams on an address. So if you have many you will get stakes more often.

On JD- you have a -10% fee. And some plus because of gamblers money whose stakes are added to investors.

But besides that it sounds to me like its only like poolmining. Stakes happen more often. There is no difficulty that would make you want to get staked faster too.

So at the end it should average out if you stake on jd or in your own wallet.

Then why do you earn more on jd?

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July 01, 2015, 02:50:14 PM
 #3345


So to effectively stake I should invest my CLAMs at Just-Dice? Is there any real downside to that?
I had thought they would constantly stake, but I only have my computer on for a few hours a day, so guess it isn't going to be worth it in the clam wallet.

I updated to the new wallet and now it says I should stake in 1 day! A big difference!

If you invest at Just-dice you will make more money, but you will be contributing to CLAM being centralized.

I have read what was written above your post but i still dont get it. Why do you earn more staking on just-dice? As far as i know clams are spread proportionally to the amount of clams on an address. So if you have many you will get stakes more often.

On JD- you have a -10% fee. And some plus because of gamblers money whose stakes are added to investors.

But besides that it sounds to me like its only like poolmining. Stakes happen more often. There is no difficulty that would make you want to get staked faster too.

So at the end it should average out if you stake on jd or in your own wallet.

Then why do you earn more on jd?

Of course I'm interested in hearing the response from others, but one reason which should contribute would be that at JD, they're paying the power bill.  That seems a bit relevant.  I think your question is well put though, if you have 1 clam, or 1000 clams, you should make the same amount per-clam.  So, if JD distributes the stakes fairly minus the fees then you'd expect to make less on JD in the long run.  However, I can see that in the short run you'd get many more small portions faster on JD, rather than having to wait a long time for your 1 clam to stake, say.
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July 01, 2015, 02:55:17 PM
 #3346


So to effectively stake I should invest my CLAMs at Just-Dice? Is there any real downside to that?
I had thought they would constantly stake, but I only have my computer on for a few hours a day, so guess it isn't going to be worth it in the clam wallet.

I updated to the new wallet and now it says I should stake in 1 day! A big difference!

If you invest at Just-dice you will make more money, but you will be contributing to CLAM being centralized.

I have read what was written above your post but i still dont get it. Why do you earn more staking on just-dice? As far as i know clams are spread proportionally to the amount of clams on an address. So if you have many you will get stakes more often.

On JD- you have a -10% fee. And some plus because of gamblers money whose stakes are added to investors.

But besides that it sounds to me like its only like poolmining. Stakes happen more often. There is no difficulty that would make you want to get staked faster too.

So at the end it should average out if you stake on jd or in your own wallet.

Then why do you earn more on jd?

JD orphans blocks of those who don't stake with it due to how many coins are staking there.

House edge as addition income on top of the stakes.  (this varies... if you invested 2 weeks ago you'd disagree)

Say someone only has 10 CLAMS... well staking on their own is a up hill battle with time + orphans and by going just with the Just-dice centralization they get instant returns.  Otherwise they may wait a year and never hit a block sucessfully (or maybe they hit one right away... the very base of these cryptocoins is gambling through mining/staking.)

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July 01, 2015, 06:12:39 PM
 #3347


So to effectively stake I should invest my CLAMs at Just-Dice? Is there any real downside to that?
I had thought they would constantly stake, but I only have my computer on for a few hours a day, so guess it isn't going to be worth it in the clam wallet.

I updated to the new wallet and now it says I should stake in 1 day! A big difference!

If you invest at Just-dice you will make more money, but you will be contributing to CLAM being centralized.

I have read what was written above your post but i still dont get it. Why do you earn more staking on just-dice? As far as i know clams are spread proportionally to the amount of clams on an address. So if you have many you will get stakes more often.

On JD- you have a -10% fee. And some plus because of gamblers money whose stakes are added to investors.

But besides that it sounds to me like its only like poolmining. Stakes happen more often. There is no difficulty that would make you want to get staked faster too.

So at the end it should average out if you stake on jd or in your own wallet.

Then why do you earn more on jd?

JD orphans blocks of those who don't stake with it due to how many coins are staking there.

House edge as addition income on top of the stakes.  (this varies... if you invested 2 weeks ago you'd disagree)

Say someone only has 10 CLAMS... well staking on their own is a up hill battle with time + orphans and by going just with the Just-dice centralization they get instant returns.  Otherwise they may wait a year and never hit a block sucessfully (or maybe they hit one right away... the very base of these cryptocoins is gambling through mining/staking.)

I disagree... i invested shortly before the drop. Tongue

So let away the -10% fee, the clams from the gamblers that stake for the investors on top and the potential profit Tongue from gambling, you say there is an additional income from "JD orphans blocks of those who dont stake with it?" Do you refer to clams that arent in a wallet that is online? I heard those clams dont stake because they dont take part in the network. I did not find info about what orphaned blocks mean for clams. In bitcoin it means a block that is found but another block won. But clams are propagated differently. Does orphan mean that a clam address that isnt online gets theoretically a block but jd finds one a bit later and wins the dispute instantly because of centralization? Wouldnt the solution simply be to make sure to be connected to jd and send the block there as fast as possible?

So there is the variance of you staking alone, you might find a block early or later, but overall it should be the same like a big address. It would average out over time.

So the advantages of jd are:

- wins every dispute because instant confirmation of own found blocks.
- is always online so it stakes automatically
- gamblers clams stake too. Though dooglus wrote in chat thats not much.

Disadvantages:

- -10% fee

Im not sure but shouldnt the -10% fee already eat up all the advantages when you could stay online all the time too? I doubt orphaned blocks are so many, at least propagating shouldnt happen so fast that jd finds a block more earlier. I now realize that it cant work that way. Staking isnt done by calculating hashes to find a block. So how does orphans happen then?

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July 02, 2015, 01:26:34 AM
 #3348

I've been stuck at 34 weeks behind for the past week. When I hover over the progress bar it says 183635 blocks, then if I hover over it again it says 183635 blocks processed, minutes later. If I start from scratch, it'll be catching up but eventually just locks up again and stops making any progress. How can I fix this?
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July 02, 2015, 03:10:43 AM
 #3349

Hi, I am trying to dig up some old clams from my oldest btc address, and am having some trouble, no matter what I

do I keep getting errors. The first error I was getting was "Error: Error parsing JSON: mywalletpassphrase", them I

switched around where I was getting the .dat file from, now I am getting the error
 "value is type int, expected bool (code -1)"

any help would be greatly appreciated!
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July 02, 2015, 04:12:06 AM
Last edit: July 02, 2015, 05:51:12 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #3350


So to effectively stake I should invest my CLAMs at Just-Dice? Is there any real downside to that?
I had thought they would constantly stake, but I only have my computer on for a few hours a day, so guess it isn't going to be worth it in the clam wallet.

I updated to the new wallet and now it says I should stake in 1 day! A big difference!

If you invest at Just-dice you will make more money, but you will be contributing to CLAM being centralized.

I have read what was written above your post but i still dont get it. Why do you earn more staking on just-dice? As far as i know clams are spread proportionally to the amount of clams on an address. So if you have many you will get stakes more often.

On JD- you have a -10% fee. And some plus because of gamblers money whose stakes are added to investors.

But besides that it sounds to me like its only like poolmining. Stakes happen more often. There is no difficulty that would make you want to get staked faster too.

So at the end it should average out if you stake on jd or in your own wallet.

Then why do you earn more on jd?

JD orphans blocks of those who don't stake with it due to how many coins are staking there.

House edge as addition income on top of the stakes.  (this varies... if you invested 2 weeks ago you'd disagree)

Say someone only has 10 CLAMS... well staking on their own is a up hill battle with time + orphans and by going just with the Just-dice centralization they get instant returns.  Otherwise they may wait a year and never hit a block sucessfully (or maybe they hit one right away... the very base of these cryptocoins is gambling through mining/staking.)

I disagree... i invested shortly before the drop. Tongue

So let away the -10% fee, the clams from the gamblers that stake for the investors on top and the potential profit Tongue from gambling, you say there is an additional income from "JD orphans blocks of those who dont stake with it?" Do you refer to clams that arent in a wallet that is online? I heard those clams dont stake because they dont take part in the network. I did not find info about what orphaned blocks mean for clams. In bitcoin it means a block that is found but another block won. But clams are propagated differently. Does orphan mean that a clam address that isnt online gets theoretically a block but jd finds one a bit later and wins the dispute instantly because of centralization? Wouldnt the solution simply be to make sure to be connected to jd and send the block there as fast as possible?

So there is the variance of you staking alone, you might find a block early or later, but overall it should be the same like a big address. It would average out over time.

So the advantages of jd are:

- wins every dispute because instant confirmation of own found blocks.
- is always online so it stakes automatically
- gamblers clams stake too. Though dooglus wrote in chat thats not much.

Disadvantages:

- -10% fee

Im not sure but shouldnt the -10% fee already eat up all the advantages when you could stay online all the time too? I doubt orphaned blocks are so many, at least propagating shouldnt happen so fast that jd finds a block more earlier. I now realize that it cant work that way. Staking isnt done by calculating hashes to find a block. So how does orphans happen then?

Another advantage is that you get the profits off players losing as well.

Try to stake solo vs JD and compare your data.  I imagine a JD investment with 100x leverage is going to shit on solo staking 9 times out of 10.

Be sure to post your results <3!

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July 02, 2015, 04:17:45 AM
 #3351

Hi, I am trying to dig up some old clams from my oldest btc address, and am having some trouble, no matter what I

do I keep getting errors. The first error I was getting was "Error: Error parsing JSON: mywalletpassphrase", them I

switched around where I was getting the .dat file from, now I am getting the error
 "value is type int, expected bool (code -1)"

any help would be greatly appreciated!


Step one is have the private key for your old btc address in hand.  It sound like you might have gotten stuck before that (given that you're having trouble unlocking your wallet).  If that's the case, can you confirm you're using bitcoin-core (it sounds like you are) and that at least some of the RPC commands are working well?

Once you get your private key in WIF format (starts with a 5) then you can either trust dooglus to dig for you by putting that key into the just-dice chat, or you can dig with the clamd software yourself.  Which one are are you trying to do?
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July 02, 2015, 05:19:07 AM
Last edit: July 02, 2015, 06:42:26 AM by dooglus
 #3352

Then why do you earn more on jd?

As BAC said, it's to do with the orphaning.

CLAM divides time into blocks of 16 seconds. You only get to check for opportunities to stake each 16 seconds. Let's say there are 4 of these blocks per minute (it's close).

We aim to set the difficulty such that a block is found once per minute. That means that there's about a 25% chance of a block being found by someone in any particular 16 second time slot. If you (solo staking) and JD both find a block in the same time slot, you will start trying to build on top of your block, and JD will try to build on top of its block. The rest of the network will try to build on top of which ever one of the two they heard about first.

So when we both find blocks in the same time slot, if JD has 75% of the staking weight, it has a 75% chance of building on top of its block and orphaning yours. Of course there's a chance that the JD block gets orphaned too. If you solo-stake, find a block at the same time as JD and then stake again shortly after, or one of the peers who saw your block before he saw the JD block stakes next, he'll build on top of your block not JD's.

I've attempted to do some back-of-an-envelope calculations to determine what that means it real terms, and came up with a number like 14% orphan rate I think (*). Someone posted recently saying that they tried solo-staking and only got 2 orphans out of 50 or so blocks they staked, so maybe 14% is too high.

Basically if the orphan rate inflicted by JD is higher than the commission charged by JD, then you would make more staking at JD than solo staking. But we don't have a good number for that orphan rate.

Here's a list of the blocks that JD's staking wallet found recently which ended up being orphaned. Only one on 28th, 5 on 29th, 10 on 30th, 5 on 1st. So you can see there's a lot of variance:

Quote
2015-06-27 01:59:59 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-27 01:59:59 stake -1.0006 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-27 01:59:59 SetBestChain: height=529060

2015-06-27 04:50:58 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-27 04:50:58 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-27 04:50:58 SetBestChain: height=529239

2015-06-28 10:06:06 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-28 10:06:06 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-28 10:06:06 SetBestChain: height=530977

2015-06-29 00:41:17 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 2 blocks
2015-06-29 00:41:17 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 00:41:17 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 00:41:17 SetBestChain: height=531838

2015-06-29 07:57:41 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-29 07:57:41 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 07:57:42 SetBestChain: height=532279

2015-06-29 20:13:13 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-29 20:13:13 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 20:13:13 SetBestChain: height=533008

2015-06-29 20:42:23 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-29 20:42:23 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 20:42:23 SetBestChain: height=533040

2015-06-30 00:01:18 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 00:01:18 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 00:01:18 SetBestChain: height=533233

2015-06-30 01:56:36 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 01:56:36 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 01:56:36 SetBestChain: height=533344

2015-06-30 02:45:01 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 2 blocks
2015-06-30 02:45:02 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 02:45:03 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 02:45:03 SetBestChain: height=533386

2015-06-30 10:41:39 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 10:41:39 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 10:41:39 SetBestChain: height=533862

2015-06-30 12:05:11 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 12:05:27 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 12:05:27 SetBestChain: height=533951

2015-06-30 12:16:35 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 12:16:35 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 12:16:36 SetBestChain: height=533963

2015-06-30 13:23:03 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 13:23:03 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 13:23:03 SetBestChain: height=534035

2015-06-30 19:28:52 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 2 blocks
2015-06-30 19:28:52 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 19:28:52 stake -1.0002 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 19:28:52 SetBestChain: height=534386

2015-07-01 00:04:51 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 00:05:13 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 00:05:13 SetBestChain: height=534665

2015-07-01 06:15:17 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 06:15:17 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 06:15:18 SetBestChain: height=535032

2015-07-01 07:15:20 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 07:15:21 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 07:15:21 SetBestChain: height=535090

2015-07-01 09:31:04 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 09:31:04 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 09:31:04 SetBestChain: height=535213

2015-07-01 23:50:14 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 23:50:14 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 23:50:14 SetBestChain: height=536081

Edit: I've not checked, but it's quite possible that most of these orphaned blocks were orphaned by JD's hot wallet. They run completely separately, and don't "go easy" on each other. They're competing with each other for stakes just like every other wallet is.

(*) Suppose JD has 75% of the stake weight, and that there are 4 16-second blocks per minute. Suppose you are solo staking. Suppose you just staked a block. There is a 1/4 probability that someone else staked in the same 16-second period (1 in the 4 windows per minute). And there is a 3/4 probability that it was JD. So there's a 3/16 probability that JD stakes at the same time as you when you stake. To orphan your block, JD would also have to stake the next block. That's also a 3/4 probability (JD has 3/4 of the stake weight). So for each block you stake, there's a (3/16)*(3/4) = 9/64 = 14.0625% that JD will orphan it. That was how I got the 14% figure, but I don't know whether my reasoning is valid or not. I'm not taking a bunch of things into account, like the chance of you orphaning a JD block, or the change of us both finding the next block in the same time period as well.

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   1% House Edge
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July 02, 2015, 05:56:41 AM
 #3353

I've been stuck at 34 weeks behind for the past week. When I hover over the progress bar it says 183635 blocks, then if I hover over it again it says 183635 blocks processed, minutes later. If I start from scratch, it'll be catching up but eventually just locks up again and stops making any progress. How can I fix this?

Take a look at the OP post, at the bottom.

1. You will find a list of nodes.
- Go to your data directory, on Windows it is at:
Code:
%appdata%/clam/
- Add the node lines you find in the OP post to the clam.conf file, if it doesn't exist, create it.
- Restart the client.

2. You will find a link to a bootstrap file.
- Place the bootstrap file in the data directory.
- Restart the client.

If neither of these solutions help you with the problem, please feel free to stop in to freenode IRC channel #clams and we would be happy to help you debug the problem.




Hi, I am trying to dig up some old clams from my oldest btc address, and am having some trouble, no matter what I
do I keep getting errors. The first error I was getting was "Error: Error parsing JSON: mywalletpassphrase", them I
switched around where I was getting the .dat file from, now I am getting the error
 "value is type int, expected bool (code -1)"
any help would be greatly appreciated!

If you have a wallet.dat file, you can claim by simply clicking file->import wallet.

If you do not: can we get some specific information about exactly what type of wallet/keys you are attempting to claim with?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
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Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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July 02, 2015, 06:30:31 AM
 #3354

I've been stuck at 34 weeks behind for the past week. When I hover over the progress bar it says 183635 blocks, then if I hover over it again it says 183635 blocks processed, minutes later. If I start from scratch, it'll be catching up but eventually just locks up again and stops making any progress. How can I fix this?

If neither of these solutions help you with the problem, please feel free to stop in to freenode IRC channel #clams and we would be happy to help you debug the problem.

There was a guy in the JD chat yesterday who couldn't ever get a single connection to a CLAM node, although he had managed to sync part of the Bitcoin blockchain in the past.

After a few hours of back and forth with him, it turned out that he was on a college network and couldn't make outgoing connections on most ports. Port 80 was open, and so was port 8080. If I ran a CLAM node and told it to listen for incoming connections on port 8080 (port=8080 in clam.conf), and gave him the IP address. Using an "addnode' command he was able to get a connection and finish syncing the blockchain.

Edit: I should mention that http://portquiz.net:31174/ is a good tool for diagnosing such issues. Replace 31174 by various ports until you're able to get a connection. If you see:

Quote
Outgoing port tester

This server listens on all TCP ports, allowing you to test any outbound TCP port.
You have reached this page on port 31174.

it means you are able to connect out on that port.

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July 02, 2015, 10:12:42 AM
 #3355

So the advantages of jd are:

- wins every dispute because instant confirmation of own found blocks.
- is always online so it stakes automatically
- gamblers clams stake too. Though dooglus wrote in chat thats not much.

Disadvantages:

- -10% fee

Im not sure but shouldnt the -10% fee already eat up all the advantages when you could stay online all the time too? I doubt orphaned blocks are so many, at least propagating shouldnt happen so fast that jd finds a block more earlier. I now realize that it cant work that way. Staking isnt done by calculating hashes to find a block. So how does orphans happen then?

Another advantage is that you get the profits off players losing as well.

Try to stake solo vs JD and compare your data.  I imagine a JD investment with 100x leverage is going to shit on solo staking 9 times out of 10.

Be sure to post your results <3!
[/quote]

Right, i forgot to add that. Smiley

And yes... the results are great. Yesterday i was deep red, today i check and see the profit went down even further... until i realize that its not a negative number anymore... its positive. It seems king lost 7.5k clams. Roll Eyes

Profit still can fluctuate highly but it worked out for now. Smiley

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July 02, 2015, 10:21:04 AM
 #3356

Thanks, looks like i understood the orphan thing correctly then.

Youre numbers might be right and it might be, that the one who only got 2 orphans for 50 good ones, was connecte to jd directly. Though was able to propagate practically instantly and jd had to confirm that block before jd could orphan it by creating its own.

Though i wonder how blocks are found at all. It sounds like calculating like with bitcoin but its not the case. I heard its random but that doesnt account for how orphaned blocks can happen then. You dont need to explain when you think i should investigate myself. Wink

Then why do you earn more on jd?

As BAC said, it's to do with the orphaning.

CLAM divides time into blocks of 16 seconds. You only get to check for opportunities to stake each 16 seconds. Let's say there are 4 of these blocks per minute (it's close).

We aim to set the difficulty such that a block is found once per minute. That means that there's about a 25% chance of a block being found by someone in any particular 16 second time slot. If you (solo staking) and JD both find a block in the same time slot, you will start trying to build on top of your block, and JD will try to build on top of its block. The rest of the network will try to build on top of which ever one of the two they heard about first.

So when we both find blocks in the same time slot, if JD has 75% of the staking weight, it has a 75% chance of building on top of its block and orphaning yours. Of course there's a chance that the JD block gets orphaned too. If you solo-stake, find a block at the same time as JD and then stake again shortly after, or one of the peers who saw your block before he saw the JD block stakes next, he'll build on top of your block not JD's.

I've attempted to do some back-of-an-envelope calculations to determine what that means it real terms, and came up with a number like 14% orphan rate I think (*). Someone posted recently saying that they tried solo-staking and only got 2 orphans out of 50 or so blocks they staked, so maybe 14% is too high.

Basically if the orphan rate inflicted by JD is higher than the commission charged by JD, then you would make more staking at JD than solo staking. But we don't have a good number for that orphan rate.

Here's a list of the blocks that JD's staking wallet found recently which ended up being orphaned. Only one on 28th, 5 on 29th, 10 on 30th, 5 on 1st. So you can see there's a lot of variance:

Quote
2015-06-27 01:59:59 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-27 01:59:59 stake -1.0006 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-27 01:59:59 SetBestChain: height=529060

2015-06-27 04:50:58 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-27 04:50:58 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-27 04:50:58 SetBestChain: height=529239

2015-06-28 10:06:06 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-28 10:06:06 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-28 10:06:06 SetBestChain: height=530977

2015-06-29 00:41:17 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 2 blocks
2015-06-29 00:41:17 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 00:41:17 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 00:41:17 SetBestChain: height=531838

2015-06-29 07:57:41 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-29 07:57:41 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 07:57:42 SetBestChain: height=532279

2015-06-29 20:13:13 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-29 20:13:13 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 20:13:13 SetBestChain: height=533008

2015-06-29 20:42:23 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-29 20:42:23 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-29 20:42:23 SetBestChain: height=533040

2015-06-30 00:01:18 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 00:01:18 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 00:01:18 SetBestChain: height=533233

2015-06-30 01:56:36 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 01:56:36 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 01:56:36 SetBestChain: height=533344

2015-06-30 02:45:01 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 2 blocks
2015-06-30 02:45:02 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 02:45:03 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 02:45:03 SetBestChain: height=533386

2015-06-30 10:41:39 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 10:41:39 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 10:41:39 SetBestChain: height=533862

2015-06-30 12:05:11 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 12:05:27 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 12:05:27 SetBestChain: height=533951

2015-06-30 12:16:35 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 12:16:35 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 12:16:36 SetBestChain: height=533963

2015-06-30 13:23:03 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-06-30 13:23:03 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 13:23:03 SetBestChain: height=534035

2015-06-30 19:28:52 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 2 blocks
2015-06-30 19:28:52 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 19:28:52 stake -1.0002 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-06-30 19:28:52 SetBestChain: height=534386

2015-07-01 00:04:51 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 00:05:13 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 00:05:13 SetBestChain: height=534665

2015-07-01 06:15:17 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 06:15:17 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 06:15:18 SetBestChain: height=535032

2015-07-01 07:15:20 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 07:15:21 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 07:15:21 SetBestChain: height=535090

2015-07-01 09:31:04 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 09:31:04 stake -1.00 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 09:31:04 SetBestChain: height=535213

2015-07-01 23:50:14 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks
2015-07-01 23:50:14 stake -1.0001 for xJDCLAMZsZg1YqGytiP9CRzYYdsrJXX9Kh
2015-07-01 23:50:14 SetBestChain: height=536081

Edit: I've not checked, but it's quite possible that most of these orphaned blocks were orphaned by JD's hot wallet. They run completely separately, and don't "go easy" on each other. They're competing with each other for stakes just like every other wallet is.

(*) Suppose JD has 75% of the stake weight, and that there are 4 16-second blocks per minute. Suppose you are solo staking. Suppose you just staked a block. There is a 1/4 probability that someone else staked in the same 16-second period (1 in the 4 windows per minute). And there is a 3/4 probability that it was JD. So there's a 3/16 probability that JD stakes at the same time as you when you stake. To orphan your block, JD would also have to stake the next block. That's also a 3/4 probability (JD has 3/4 of the stake weight). So for each block you stake, there's a (3/16)*(3/4) = 9/64 = 14.0625% that JD will orphan it. That was how I got the 14% figure, but I don't know whether my reasoning is valid or not. I'm not taking a bunch of things into account, like the chance of you orphaning a JD block, or the change of us both finding the next block in the same time period as well.

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July 02, 2015, 03:12:14 PM
 #3357

Trying to make sure I follow Dooglus' explanation of orphaning in CLAM:

When you gave the example of a solo staker vs JD finding a block at the same time then you said that JD has a 75% chance of being able to build on it's block and the solo staker I guess has the other 25%.  Is this because of the volume of clams that JD is holding?  By holding such a large amount JD has a better chance of finding the next block and orphaning sologuy's?  Or is it because of better connections to peers than solog guy?  Or some combination thereof?

Thanks in advance for the clarifiication!
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July 02, 2015, 03:35:24 PM
 #3358

I regularly update this old post with full dumps of the CLAM blockchain in bootstrap.dat format to make it easier for people to get their CLAM client synced up:

I made an updated bootstrap.dat file for people having trouble syncing their client.

It goes up to block 526400 which was staked on Thu Jun 25 05:07:28 2015.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/dooglus/bootstrap.dat

Last night in the Just-Dice chat, Thirdspace asked about the possibility of generating and syncing from "partial" bootstrap.dat files. Suppose your client went out of sync a few weeks ago and is 20,000 blocks behind. You don't want to download and import the whole bootstrap.dat file because you already have 95% of it. Is there some way of having someone make a bootstrap.dat file with just the blocks you need?

Well, the bootstrap file format is very simple: it's pretty much just the raw block data. There's no reason it has to start at block 0. So I made a commit to the CLAM client repository allowing you to run 'dumpbootstrap' and tell it which block to start the dump from. And since I had a bunch of .clam folders ready to go, I tested it:

Quote
$ cc1 getblockcount
528105

$ cc2 getblockcount
527194

$ cc1 dumpbootstrap /tmp 527200 527190

$ cp /tmp/bootstrap.dat ~/.clam.bs2/

$ cc2 stop
Clam server stopping

$ cc2
Clam server starting

$ cc2 getblockcount
527200

ie. I have two clamd processes running. One is up to date and one is behind (and not connected to any peers). I create an 11-block bootstrap from the up to date clamd, copy it into the out of date clamd's date folder, restart, and see that it has successfully imported just those blocks. The 11 block bootstrap file was just 10642 bytes long.

So I'll publish 10k block bootstrap files, along with the big one. If you're 30k blocks behind, you can simply download the last three, append them all together in order (the format is simple enough that you can stick them end to end without breaking anything) and restart the client.

See the old bootstrap.dat post for details of how to find the 10k block bootstrap files.

Edit: presstab replied, then apparently deleted his reply. He made the point that there's no harm using a full bootstrap.dat file, because it will quickly skip the blocks you already have, and the only advantage of partial bootstrap files is they're smaller.


Yes sorry about the delete I meant to press edit then deleted, then got too lazy to do anything else:P

Anyways, this gist of my post is that I didn't quite see the use, and that a normal bootstrap skips over blocks that you already have. But now that I more fully understand your reasoning behind this, and how much faster this actually will process the blocks that you already have... this is amazing! This could really be useful when you stop a bootstrap midstream and need to start it backup. Or if you have been out of sync for a month or two.

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July 02, 2015, 03:49:04 PM
 #3359

I regularly update this old post with full dumps of the CLAM blockchain in bootstrap.dat format to make it easier for people to get their CLAM client synced up:

I made an updated bootstrap.dat file for people having trouble syncing their client.

It goes up to block 526400 which was staked on Thu Jun 25 05:07:28 2015.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/dooglus/bootstrap.dat

Last night in the Just-Dice chat, Thirdspace asked about the possibility of generating and syncing from "partial" bootstrap.dat files. Suppose your client went out of sync a few weeks ago and is 20,000 blocks behind. You don't want to download and import the whole bootstrap.dat file because you already have 95% of it. Is there some way of having someone make a bootstrap.dat file with just the blocks you need?

Well, the bootstrap file format is very simple: it's pretty much just the raw block data. There's no reason it has to start at block 0. So I made a commit to the CLAM client repository allowing you to run 'dumpbootstrap' and tell it which block to start the dump from. And since I had a bunch of .clam folders ready to go, I tested it:

Quote
$ cc1 getblockcount
528105

$ cc2 getblockcount
527194

$ cc1 dumpbootstrap /tmp 527200 527190

$ cp /tmp/bootstrap.dat ~/.clam.bs2/

$ cc2 stop
Clam server stopping

$ cc2
Clam server starting

$ cc2 getblockcount
527200

ie. I have two clamd processes running. One is up to date and one is behind (and not connected to any peers). I create an 11-block bootstrap from the up to date clamd, copy it into the out of date clamd's date folder, restart, and see that it has successfully imported just those blocks. The 11 block bootstrap file was just 10642 bytes long.

So I'll publish 10k block bootstrap files, along with the big one. If you're 30k blocks behind, you can simply download the last three, append them all together in order (the format is simple enough that you can stick them end to end without breaking anything) and restart the client.

See the old bootstrap.dat post for details of how to find the 10k block bootstrap files.

Edit: presstab replied, then apparently deleted his reply. He made the point that there's no harm using a full bootstrap.dat file, because it will quickly skip the blocks you already have, and the only advantage of partial bootstrap files is they're smaller.


Yes sorry about the delete I meant to press edit then deleted, then got too lazy to do anything else:P

Anyways, this gist of my post is that I didn't quite see the use, and that a normal bootstrap skips over blocks that you already have. But now that I more fully understand your reasoning behind this, and how much faster this actually will process the blocks that you already have... this is amazing! This could really be useful when you stop a bootstrap midstream and need to start it backup. Or if you have been out of sync for a month or two.

   It would be nice to have this automajically in the client, to go out and download the bootstrap that is needed to get up to date.... 

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July 02, 2015, 09:24:55 PM
Last edit: July 03, 2015, 12:35:17 AM by MGGB
 #3360

Hi, I am trying to dig up some old clams from my oldest btc address, and am having some trouble, no matter what I

do I keep getting errors. The first error I was getting was "Error: Error parsing JSON: mywalletpassphrase", them I

switched around where I was getting the .dat file from, now I am getting the error
 "value is type int, expected bool (code -1)"

any help would be greatly appreciated!


Step one is have the private key for your old btc address in hand.  It sound like you might have gotten stuck before that (given that you're having trouble unlocking your wallet).  If that's the case, can you confirm you're using bitcoin-core (it sounds like you are) and that at least some of the RPC commands are working well?

Once you get your private key in WIF format (starts with a 5) then you can either trust dooglus to dig for you by putting that key into the just-dice chat, or you can dig with the clamd software yourself.  Which one are are you trying to do?


Thanks for lending a hand, it took a while but, I finally got those lost clams dug up Smiley

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