[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[crazyivan]

Wtf s going on with Poloniex orders? Buy side from 70 to 38 BTC in 1 day???

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[dooglus]

Not exactly. It does include verifying transaction inclusion via merkle proofs, which is the essence of SPV but it doesn't work the exact same way as described in the white paper.

Multibit is somewhat closer, and is also open source and could be forked, but most alts seem to stick with Electrum.

In point of fact there are NO pure SPV wallets because SPV as described in the white paper also includes the network having a warning system against attacks, which doesn't exist, and the original description doesn't include any practical or privacy-preserving method for querying your transactions either.

OK, so I don't care about "pure SPV" I guess. I was hoping to avoid having to have a separate network of "Electrum servers" when we already have a network of CLAM p2p servers.

How does MultiBit deal with importing private keys and rescanning? As I understand it, Bitcoin Core doesn't maintain an address index and so has to rescan the whole blockchain when you add a new private key to the wallet, which is time intensive. If MultiBit is talking to regular Core peers, how do they look up the transactions of interest given only the addresses that the MultiBit wallet controls?

https://multibit.org/ says:

    Easy recovery from data loss
    You can recover your bitcoins using your wallet words if your computer is lost or stolen

It appears that in the current version of MultiBit you can't import individual private keys. It only allows you to import "wallet words" for HD wallets you created in Multibit. These "wallet words" have a creation date associated with it, and so the wallet can scan the blockchain from that creation date forward.

Any light CLAM wallet is going to have to let people import their old wallets and scan for distribution CLAMs.

[shorena]

Not exactly. It does include verifying transaction inclusion via merkle proofs, which is the essence of SPV but it doesn't work the exact same way as described in the white paper.

Multibit is somewhat closer, and is also open source and could be forked, but most alts seem to stick with Electrum.

In point of fact there are NO pure SPV wallets because SPV as described in the white paper also includes the network having a warning system against attacks, which doesn't exist, and the original description doesn't include any practical or privacy-preserving method for querying your transactions either.

OK, so I don't care about "pure SPV" I guess. I was hoping to avoid having to have a separate network of "Electrum servers" when we already have a network of CLAM p2p servers.

How does MultiBit deal with importing private keys and rescanning? As I understand it, Bitcoin Core doesn't maintain an address index and so has to rescan the whole blockchain when you add a new private key to the wallet, which is time intensive. If MultiBit is talking to regular Core peers, how do they look up the transactions of interest given only the addresses that the MultiBit wallet controls?

https://multibit.org/ says:

    Easy recovery from data loss
    You can recover your bitcoins using your wallet words if your computer is lost or stolen

It appears that in the current version of MultiBit you can't import individual private keys. It only allows you to import "wallet words" for HD wallets you created in Multibit. These "wallet words" have a creation date associated with it, and so the wallet can scan the blockchain from that creation date forward.

Any light CLAM wallet is going to have to let people import their old wallets and scan for distribution CLAMs.

Multibit classic[1] allows to import private keys. I think this[2] will help to understand SPV.

[1] https://multibit.org/releases.html
[2] https://multibit.org/en/help/hd0.1/how-spv-works.html

[RHavar]

How does MultiBit deal with importing private keys and rescanning? As I understand it, Bitcoin Core doesn't maintain an address index and so has to rescan the whole blockchain when you add a new private key to the wallet, which is time intensive. If MultiBit is talking to regular Core peers, how do they look up the transactions of interest given only the addresses that the MultiBit wallet controls?

SPV wallets are pretty simple, they just download the whole blockchain but throw away transactions they don't "care" about. But because they throw away transactions they don't care about, they're unable to tell if the block is valid or not (e.g. a transaction could be fabricating bitcoins). But because they know a lot of work went into creating the block (you can check the hash), they know that it's sort-of-maybe-probably is going to be valid. After a lot of other blocks are made on top of this, you have even a much higher confidence it's valid (or at least, people are spending a lot of hash power to make it look so).

But however, if you change your definition of "what you care about" (aka importing addresses), you'll need to re-download the blockchain, from the earliest point you think interesting transactions could be. Although, that doesn't have to be a big deal at all. As an optimization you can  push a (bloom) filter up to the bitcoin client you're downloading from and ask them to pre-filter your results. That saves a *lot* of bandwidth, and allows you to power through the blockchain pretty fast. That's a little bit of a hack though, because with the current structure you have no way of knowing if they over-filtered or not)

[hermesesus]

Multibit wallet is based on bitcoinj library:
https://bitcoinj.github.io/
https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj
It has "Highly optimised lightweight simplified payment verification (SPV) mode. In this mode, only a small part of the block chain is downloaded, making bitcoinj suitable for usage on constrained devices like smartphones or cheap virtual private servers."

https://bitcoinj.github.io/security-model
"In this mode [SPV], only transactions that are relevant to the wallet are stored. Every other transaction is thrown away or simply never downloaded to start with. The block chain is still used and broadcast transactions are still received, but those transactions are not and cannot be checked to ensure they are valid."
"To find transactions relevant to your wallet, we have two options. We can download the full block contents and scan all transactions. This is inefficient - much data is downloaded only to be thrown away. Or, we can request transactions that match a pattern from remote nodes. We do this using Bloom filters when the remote node supports them (v0.8 and up). This leads to the question of how you can know the received transaction really did appear in the block chain, if you don’t have a full copy of the block.

Blocks contain a list of transactions, one after the other. From this list, a Merkle tree is calculated. This structure generates a Merkle root, a single hash value that is then placed in the block header. The approach is more complex than the obvious one of simply hashing the concatenation of the transactions, but it has a major advantage: it’s possible to prove a transaction was in a block by providing only that transaction and a Merkle branch. The branch consists of hashes making up sibling nodes in the original tree. If a node hands you a block header, a transaction and a branch you can check for yourself that the transaction was indeed accepted by the network and is unlikely to have been forged. The branch takes up much less space than the full block body, so this is a major efficiency win. And multiple transactions can have their merkle branches combined together for even greater efficiency."

I have no idea what are 'Bloom filters" and "Merkle tree" but do you think this is transposable to CLAM?

[dooglus]

I was reminded that I didn't post "digging charts" recently, so here they are:

[forzendiablo]

CLAMS to the moon? )))))))

[navaman]

I have been pouring over charts this past week and last night I decided to see if the digging commencement coincided with anything else.  My first thought was maybe Ethereum but the volume and price movements don't seem highly correlated.  The best one I could find was the BTC flash crash on August 18.  Losing 1/3 of his wealth right there could have lead the digger to salvage what he can.  Also, Clam was the last alt standing after the late spring and early summer rally that peaked in July.  Clams peaked in August so if he holds other alts then he could be selling clams to buy into BTS or ETH and so forth.

[freedomno1]

Well it is a stake so  it will recover over time perhaps
That said its taking a beating at present.

[smooth]

How does MultiBit deal with importing private keys and rescanning? As I understand it, Bitcoin Core doesn't maintain an address index and so has to rescan the whole blockchain when you add a new private key to the wallet, which is time intensive. If MultiBit is talking to regular Core peers, how do they look up the transactions of interest given only the addresses that the MultiBit wallet controls?

MultiBit classic retrieves the whole chain (after an optional earliest use date) after installing a BIP0037 filter which allows excluding most "uninteresting" transactions. It is still pretty time intensive.

Multibit HD does not support importing Bitcoin Core wallets. It may allow importing individual keys but I'm not sure. Mostly it uses HD wallets where a single seed generates many private keys. Either way the restore process is largely the same, involving scanning of the blockchain. HD or not HD makes no difference to the actual blocks.

[xploited]

How does MultiBit deal with importing private keys and rescanning? As I understand it, Bitcoin Core doesn't maintain an address index and so has to rescan the whole blockchain when you add a new private key to the wallet, which is time intensive. If MultiBit is talking to regular Core peers, how do they look up the transactions of interest given only the addresses that the MultiBit wallet controls?

MultiBit classic retrieves the whole chain (after an optional earliest use date) after installing a BIP0037 filter which allows excluding most "uninteresting" transactions. It is still pretty time intensive.

Multibit HD does not support importing Bitcoin Core wallets. It may allow importing individual keys but I'm not sure. Mostly it uses HD wallets where a single seed generates many private keys. Either way the restore process is largely the same, involving scanning of the blockchain. HD or not HD makes no difference to the actual blocks.

According to https://multibit.org/en/help/v0.5/help_importingPrivateKeys.html

6. After the import, MultiBit then replays the block chain from the replay date to find the transactions for the new private keys. It is best just to leave MultiBit to sync the block chain on its own.

The replay date being a date you give it. I believe it would update the bloom filters and replay the blockchain from the date you gave it grabbing associated transactions.

[dooglus]

According to https://multibit.org/en/help/v0.5/help_importingPrivateKeys.html

6. After the import, MultiBit then replays the block chain from the replay date to find the transactions for the new private keys. It is best just to leave MultiBit to sync the block chain on its own.

The replay date being a date you give it. I believe it would update the bloom filters and replay the blockchain from the date you gave it grabbing associated transactions.

That sounds expensive in terms of node I/O. The Bitcoin node needs to rescan the whole blockchain (if the date you give it is old enough) looking for transactions relating to the address you give it. Is it possible to DoS a node in that way? It seems like you're getting the node to do a whole lot of work by sending it a very simple request.

[MRKLYE]

KINGKLYE.com now accepts CLAM on site!

Just letting everyone know I have gotten http://kingklye.com up and running now and you can pay with CLAM!

All merchandise is fully endorsed by the CLAM developers and I'm very excited to offer the first shop to buy physical items for CLAM directly!
Go grab yourself a few shirts or a mug! Free shipping on your order (in 98%) of cases, I will let you know otherwise of course.

So far almost a dozen items have been purchased and received from the site with a 100% arrival rate, Don't let the negative rep scare you.
I'm sure the CLAM developers will vouch that they received their order as well as anyone else who has ordered from me.

[ziomar]

Hi
I would like to know if there is the possibility that something is wrong with me clams wallet.
It is sync and connected to the network, it shows 3 days for mining a block since 2 weeks
Is it normal or maybe I have to fix something?
Thanks

[chilly2k]

Hi
I would like to know if there is the possibility that something is wrong with me clams wallet.
It is sync and connected to the network, it shows 3 days for mining a block since 2 weeks
Is it normal or maybe I have to fix something?
Thanks

   The 3 days is an estimate.  How many clams are you trying to stake?  We can give you a better real world estimate... 

[ziomar]

Hi
I would like to know if there is the possibility that something is wrong with me clams wallet.
It is sync and connected to the network, it shows 3 days for mining a block since 2 weeks
Is it normal or maybe I have to fix something?
Thanks

   The 3 days is an estimate.  How many clams are you trying to stake?  We can give you a better real world estimate... 

147.65

[0n0t0le]

CLAMS to the moon? )))))))

0,004 it s a moon Really?
there are no statistics on digging?
 obviously someone found a lot of cщккyce addresses and began selling coins =)

[crazyivan]

CLAMS to the moon? )))))))

0,004 it s a moon Really?
there are no statistics on digging?
 obviously someone found a lot of cщккyce addresses and began selling coins =)

Its all about patience. Diff will go up and compensate this, the price ll get back to higher levels. Professional investors have one very important trait, they have almost endless patience.

[GordoZ]

I have aprox 120 CLAM thay I broght. And im loooosing and looosing money.
Does anyone have an investor tip? Should I stake? Deposit in justdice?
Thanx.

[smooth]

I have aprox 120 CLAM thay I broght. And im loooosing and looosing money.
Does anyone have an investor tip? Should I stake? Deposit in justdice?
Thanx.

You should stake, invest in JD (which stakes for you) or sell. It doesn't make sense to hold CLAMs without staking because that's a very significant part of the return on investment. If you are just short term speculating it doesn't really matter but if you hold for a while the lost income from not staking adds up.

If you don't want to stake yourself or invest in JD you can join my no-nonsense no-fee staking pool: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1200703.0