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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1150784 times)
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crazyivan
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September 28, 2015, 05:06:59 AM
 #4181

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

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September 28, 2015, 07:30:12 AM
 #4182

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

2 message above, you have an answer from Dooglus Wink.
Clam is still pretty solid as an alt but is greatly impacted by the "digger".
Anyway, as a "whale" investor (small whale with ~2200 CLAMS now) I'm hodling for the moment.

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September 28, 2015, 11:25:51 AM
 #4183

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

2 message above, you have an answer from Dooglus Wink.
Clam is still pretty solid as an alt but is greatly impacted by the "digger".
Anyway, as a "whale" investor (small whale with ~2200 CLAMS now) I'm hodling for the moment.

It s so strange you all talk about that mysterious whale. What proof do you have of his existence, I m sure there s something since lots of people talk about it.
An address? Anything? What exactly points out this is a single person and not a group or even a market trend?

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September 28, 2015, 11:53:13 AM
 #4184

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

2 message above, you have an answer from Dooglus Wink.
Clam is still pretty solid as an alt but is greatly impacted by the "digger".
Anyway, as a "whale" investor (small whale with ~2200 CLAMS now) I'm hodling for the moment.

It s so strange you all talk about that mysterious whale. What proof do you have of his existence, I m sure there s something since lots of people talk about it.
An address? Anything? What exactly points out this is a single person and not a group or even a market trend?


so in fact clams rolled out to all BTC LTC and DOGE addresses which had above dust amount of coins at date xy 2014

so a exchange with a lot people deposit on lot different addresses would have a shitload clams

by invest some time and scripts u could dig for them in a wallet backup from that timeframe

somehow this create the feeling clams was invented by some exchange owner


 
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September 28, 2015, 02:22:36 PM
 #4185

I've been trying out CLAM and while keeping the client always open (on OSX) with an expected reward time of 17~22 hours, I got 3 CLAMs since the 21st, so 7 days ago. The thing is, I got the 3 within 12 hours and haven't got any since. I know variation is expected, but how much of it is normal?
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September 28, 2015, 02:31:08 PM
 #4186

I've been trying out CLAM and while keeping the client always open (on OSX) with an expected reward time of 17~22 hours, I got 3 CLAMs since the 21st, so 7 days ago. The thing is, I got the 3 within 12 hours and haven't got any since. I know variation is expected, but how much of it is normal?

   I think it's normal, at least normal for you and I.  I seem to get stakes in spurts.  I'll have very good days, and very bad days, but over the long term it all levels out.  Some days I can get 10 stakes, and other days 0.  So I would think that having less coins would make it more variable. 

   Also I can have 2-3 stakes in an hour then go 24 hours with nothing.   

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September 28, 2015, 03:18:39 PM
 #4187

It s so strange you all talk about that mysterious whale. What proof do you have of his existence, I m sure there s something since lots of people talk about it.
An address? Anything? What exactly points out this is a single person and not a group or even a market trend?

Check the CLAM client's debug.log for the word DIG:

Code:
$ tail -c 100k ~/.clam/debug.log | grep DIG
2015-09-28 14:43:29 DIG: 76499c68e6122729f20703e52e3e49407e81e3177b6f821f45d5e33376c2cb09:250 xVafiaGDxPYMQTgkk5K76Mx6Q7MAjHteTA from block 1968
2015-09-28 14:45:54 DIG: 279fd93345e2c4ecd2f7ef57bd9ba7d088c58c4478599ea57fa8f68ce349abf8:124 xDoqb7JWKsfm5XXqUmWcxKgZEGUpJcWnfz from block 799
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:297 xNxA6zvmhVZFZQS4tr8qwxm7DEiTCLHTXz from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:60 xBFnLQwAPdqQ8TrHTATxvgRVgvSQyXbNQ5 from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:129 xPzR94sV24wp2n8pFyfT558PTtEd8sRn9q from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:291 xCoru5MtyB21mLu2yB5bePr7tri8C38gw1 from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:330 xL17M6JQoNNQa5M4mw2GWHTMa97dQbQuQH from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:164 xNKc8WbbLq1714QFLTdHbweviBcRUrV4po from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:73 xSEkWmSh2MJiZB3HTMBFMucLjZcgBvnuo1 from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:131 xKv4HZMUnKeT1YCDFpJ24UP8PbJevMeUeu from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:14 xQkY9Woic1ahDE83UY7DTxuUfm8L5McbYo from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:191 xJXMKMxRygjSPe8MUY6D15H3Na1HBSXn3T from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:249 xMmUpcEruwApSJEW4zYt4msz1xwkzEtVU4 from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:221 xGuiSrLmhShJqoDjt389TEzV239znqG1fV from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:80 xMtjKtozyZSGojPZtDxKj7xhXPY6XoBfvU from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:232 xWVPvxAVhCBCRSbRagvyYVE4bTomKNHnAU from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:85 xR3iTyf5hbFu84PfvW3UUyZKEurMQTg2dn from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:173 xDM4TbQspZiMUYBwd2jRzgVyptwgVsHUJb from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:331 xQCtUxXtiHibfgtcLJrVuL4U12P19ZM2Ek from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:259 xVhZwJKje6U2iKaH7UwhEJbq8KU8qVpQrD from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:253 xDAJfQ1otSRYKtgyqDx2peRUGHFVz3hH2h from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:234 xJoQ3UadEg5pzqWr9FPbVXWxvrUrHvkqH5 from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:212 x91TLK7rUDaDwvKMtSWPQkLvPFf3MU7Wad from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:349 xL9FVF6h3yrXVKMukJB4Zea1tVaGBsCd9d from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:316 xFUCY3DGDoD3uYKVtR7km1Xr8hHWuMYGyG from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:219 xC53XmHBEaVn8JNsrtU2q2SJhRxjYRJKti from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:309 xEobw41PNR7BdbCuzZvN8ep7F989wwZyE3 from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:141 xNVSMyQaVs3SRVkJyDeEB9CKZsg12DKW8M from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:256 xCFjXBnBP1383ueWYEnexDo3Qt1H77QC6k from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:299 xRwFbbKod2W6NJvDFeeBDmfvQui1ciPC5c from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:14 x8QHi5JZ6htzC3WhAGnbgyrgfYZ6TnUYL8 from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:45 xJLzcNccAM6MVptJLe8UL5a9knTj9mMzyN from block 7622

Notice the last number on each line. It is the block in which the dug CLAM was created. They are being dug up in order of that number. That makes it impossible that it is a market trend, and almost certain that it is a single person, or at least a very coordinated team of people.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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September 28, 2015, 03:51:54 PM
 #4188

I have a few question about the total supply of Clams. Now is there 15 million coins already waiting to be claimed and will that be added on top of the 500,000 coins to be mined per year? How much will the available supply of Clams go up per year? I just want to make sure if I buy clams the Available supply wont go up by millions in 1 year
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September 28, 2015, 06:12:43 PM
 #4189

I have a few question about the total supply of Clams. Now is there 15 million coins already waiting to be claimed and will that be added on top of the 500,000 coins to be mined per year? How much will the available supply of Clams go up per year?

Right now, if I run "clamd getinfo" it tells me:

    "moneysupply" : 15332791.13048927,
    "digsupply" : 441211.87080348,
    "stakesupply" : 558389.72641731,
    "activesupply" : 999601.59722079,

The initial distribution sent 4.60545574 CLAM to each of 3,208,032 addresses, making an initial total distribution of:

    >>> 4.60545574 * 3208032
    14774449.38850368

ie. 14.8 million, of which only 441k have so far been dug up.

Since then, 558389.72641731 CLAM was created by staking, making a total money supply of:

    >>> 14774449.38850368 + 558389.72641731
    15332839.11492099

That's 48 CLAMs higher than the reported money supply:

    >>> 15332839.11492099 - 15332791.13048927
    47.98443172

I don't quite understand why - but maybe it's related to how the developers burned staking rewards which were generated when getting the blockchain started.

Anyway, in summary, there are over 14 million CLAMs still waiting to be dug up. It's theoretically possible (although very unlikely) that the vast majority of them could all be dug up today and enter the active supply.

I just want to make sure if I buy clams the Available supply wont go up by millions in 1 year

It depends what you mean by the "available supply".

The total money supply, currently a little over 15 million, will go up by 1 CLAM each time a block is found, or about 525k per year.

The "active" money supply, currently just under 1 million, and defined as the "dig supply" plus the "stake supply" goes up by 4.6 CLAMs every time one of the initial distribution outputs is moved for the first time, and that is quite unpredictable.

Here's a chart showing the 'digsupply' and 'stakesupply' since launch, with annotations:



I may have some of the details wrong, and would appreciate feedback from anyone who remembers better.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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September 28, 2015, 06:29:21 PM
 #4190

When I say Available Supply I'm referring to activesupply

Since I bought some Clams to buy and hold the Available Supply as shown on Coinmarketcap greatly effects the current market price of Clams, that's why I have an interest in the Available Supply in the near future 

I have a few question about the total supply of Clams. Now is there 15 million coins already waiting to be claimed and will that be added on top of the 500,000 coins to be mined per year? How much will the available supply of Clams go up per year?

Right now, if I run "clamd getinfo" it tells me:

    "moneysupply" : 15332791.13048927,
    "digsupply" : 441211.87080348,
    "stakesupply" : 558389.72641731,
    "activesupply" : 999601.59722079,

The initial distribution sent 4.60545574 CLAM to each of 3,208,032 addresses, making an initial total distribution of:

    >>> 4.60545574 * 3208032
    14774449.38850368

ie. 14.8 million, of which only 441k have so far been dug up.

Since then, 558389.72641731 CLAM was created by staking, making a total money supply of:

    >>> 14774449.38850368 + 558389.72641731
    15332839.11492099

That's 48 CLAMs higher than the reported money supply:

    >>> 15332839.11492099 - 15332791.13048927
    47.98443172

I don't quite understand why - but maybe it's related to how the developers burned staking rewards which were generated when getting the blockchain started.

Anyway, in summary, there are over 14 million CLAMs still waiting to be dug up. It's theoretically possible (although very unlikely) that the vast majority of them could all be dug up today and enter the active supply.

I just want to make sure if I buy clams the Available supply wont go up by millions in 1 year

It depends what you mean by the "available supply".

The total money supply, currently a little over 15 million, will go up by 1 CLAM each time a block is found, or about 525k per year.

The "active" money supply, currently just under 1 million, and defined as the "dig supply" plus the "stake supply" goes up by 4.6 CLAMs every time one of the initial distribution outputs is moved for the first time, and that is quite unpredictable.

Here's a chart showing the 'digsupply' and 'stakesupply' since launch, with annotations:



I may have some of the details wrong, and would appreciate feedback from anyone who remembers better.
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September 28, 2015, 07:01:59 PM
 #4191

Is just-dice the only CLAM casino out there? If not then can somebody point me to a list of CLAM casinos. Thanks.
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September 28, 2015, 10:12:21 PM
 #4192

I'm about to dig up some clams as soon as the blockchain updates for me. Do you guys think I should hold or sell?
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September 28, 2015, 10:17:11 PM
 #4193

Is just-dice the only CLAM casino out there? If not then can somebody point me to a list of CLAM casinos. Thanks.

www.Bitdice.me -  Dice website with playing and investing

www.FortuneJack.com - Lots of different traditional games and live play.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - Trade altcoins & Bitcoin Testnet coins with real Bitcoin. Fast, private, and easy!
https://FreeBitcoins.com/faucet/ - Load your AltQuick exchange account with free Bitcoins & Testnet every 10 minutes.
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September 28, 2015, 10:24:07 PM
 #4194

Is just-dice the only CLAM casino out there? If not then can somebody point me to a list of CLAM casinos. Thanks.

www.Bitdice.me -  Dice website with playing and investing

www.FortuneJack.com - Lots of different traditional games and live play.

Clam scammers
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September 28, 2015, 10:30:32 PM
 #4195

Is just-dice the only CLAM casino out there? If not then can somebody point me to a list of CLAM casinos. Thanks.

www.Bitdice.me -  Dice website with playing and investing

www.FortuneJack.com - Lots of different traditional games and live play.

Clam scammers

I'm sure you mean Sclammers...

I've deposited and withdrawn off both the sites I've listed.

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https://FreeBitcoins.com/faucet/ - Load your AltQuick exchange account with free Bitcoins & Testnet every 10 minutes.
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September 29, 2015, 02:18:39 AM
 #4196

Doess clam have a finite supply?

I`m confused, a guy above said that therea re 14.8m addresses that were filled up with clam waiting for redeem.

But then you said that 500,000 have been minted, so how come?

What is exactly the inflation structure of CLAM, please explain somebody!  Grin

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September 29, 2015, 02:30:22 AM
 #4197

Doess clam have a finite supply?

Yes and no. Once all the claims are distributed, as long as you stake, your share of the ledger is fixed (non-dilutive). Alternately you could consider your share of the total supply (including all potential claims). Again non-dilutive. But staking creates new coins so the supply is not finite
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September 29, 2015, 02:36:33 AM
 #4198

Doess clam have a finite supply?

Yes and no. Once all the claims are distributed, as long as you stake, your share of the ledger is fixed (non-dilutive). Alternately you could consider your share of the total supply (including all potential claims). Again non-dilutive. But staking creates new coins so the supply is not finite

Thats too bad, it should be finite.

The distribution will never end, most likely most of those addresses are inactive for now or were black holes all along.


If the staking would work like in NXT, to only distribute the fees, but dont create new coins, then this could could go to the moon.

The staking is keeping the price low unfortunately.

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September 29, 2015, 02:39:34 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2015, 02:52:43 AM by smooth
 #4199

Doess clam have a finite supply?

Yes and no. Once all the claims are distributed, as long as you stake, your share of the ledger is fixed (non-dilutive). Alternately you could consider your share of the total supply (including all potential claims). Again non-dilutive. But staking creates new coins so the supply is not finite

Thats too bad, it should be finite.

The distribution will never end, most likely most of those addresses are inactive for now or were black holes all along.


If the staking would work like in NXT, to only distribute the fees, but dont create new coins, then this could could go to the moon.

The staking is keeping the price low unfortunately.

The price per coin would be higher without staking rewards yes, but if you do stake it doesn't matter. As X% new coins are created the price will drop by X% and you will get X% more coins added to your holdings and in the end the value of your holding is the same (all else being equal). This assumes everyone stakes. If everyone doesn't stake you do better (your share of the ledger increases).

An interesting aspect of this is unclaimed coins are not staking so their value is being inflated away. You snooze (on claiming), you lose.

I'm not a fan of the Nxt model because the fees are so negligible there is little reason to stake. You then end up with far weaker security because most people won't bother to stake. On the other hand if the staking rate is too high then people are punished for transacting, so the right balance is hard to strike. Pooled stake is an issue in any case (the example here being the JD bankroll).


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September 29, 2015, 03:36:44 AM
 #4200

Doess clam have a finite supply?

Yes due to the Proof of Stake.

The way the system is set right now there will be 1 CLAM per minute for ever.

There was only a set number of Clamcoins given to all Bitcoin, Litecoin and Dogecoin addresses.

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