[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[oldkolobok]

Wow where is all that buy support on Polo suddenly coming from? Is it fake ?

[statdude]

Wow where is all that buy support on Polo suddenly coming from? Is it fake ?

Probably whoever just dug/dumped is now realizing he has a lot of CLAM and better to pump it back up

[taxmanmt5]

Wow where is all that buy support on Polo suddenly coming from? Is it fake ?

Probably whoever just dug/dumped is now realizing he has a lot of CLAM and better to pump it back up

May be its true... its better if he dump when price is more rather than when its down !

[oldkolobok]

Wow where is all that buy support on Polo suddenly coming from? Is it fake ?

Probably whoever just dug/dumped is now realizing he has a lot of CLAM and better to pump it back up

Seems possible, but its allready removed. The total amount of buy orders went from 200 BTC to 1500 BTC in a few minutes. Now back to 200 again.

[hrshak462]

Just started looking at Clams.  Is this a typo on the website where it mentions May 2013?

http://clamclient.com/start/download/

[BayAreaCoins]

Just started looking at Clams.  Is this a typo on the website where it mentions May 2013?

http://clamclient.com/start/download/

Yes that is a typo...

May 12, 2014 - Source: www.Clamcoin.org

Also, I just wanted to chip in my two cents in regards to forcing people to wait after digging their CLAMS.  I am strongly against this.  It sounds Dooglus was at one point as well.

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

The rules are fair... I vote leave them.

I do think the 1CLAM stakes may need to be rolled back, but that is a conversation for another day. (perhaps peg it to the CPI or something along those lines)

[joust]

Just started looking at Clams.  Is this a typo on the website where it mentions May 2013?

http://clamclient.com/start/download/

Yes that is a typo...

May 12, 2014 - Source: www.Clamcoin.org

Also, I just wanted to chip in my two cents in regards to forcing people to wait after digging their CLAMS.  I am strongly against this.  It sounds Dooglus was at one point as well.

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

The rules are fair... I vote leave them.

I do think the 1CLAM stakes may need to be rolled back, but that is a conversation for another day. (perhaps peg it to the CPI or something along those lines)

Is dooglus the developer of clam? I know he uses it on his website for gambling but didnt know he was the inventoe of clam. I don't think he is going for profit, he has always been fair and will stay it!

[xploited]

Just started looking at Clams.  Is this a typo on the website where it mentions May 2013?

http://clamclient.com/start/download/

Yes that is a typo...

May 12, 2014 - Source: www.Clamcoin.org

Also, I just wanted to chip in my two cents in regards to forcing people to wait after digging their CLAMS.  I am strongly against this.  It sounds Dooglus was at one point as well.

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

The rules are fair... I vote leave them.

I do think the 1CLAM stakes may need to be rolled back, but that is a conversation for another day. (perhaps peg it to the CPI or something along those lines)

Is dooglus the developer of clam? I know he uses it on his website for gambling but didnt know he was the inventoe of clam. I don't think he is going for profit, he has always been fair and will stay it!

He did not invent clams. Me and creativecuroisty were the original creators. He is however a CLAM dev, a constant contributor and a valued member of the CLAM community.

[galbros]

I in no way think that the rules or protocol for clams should be changed because of the "dig whale".  I agree with others who say that will just make it a scam coin.

xploited I think what you and CC have come up with for an initial distribution was great and very fair.  I agree with dooglus that it is a great incentive to check out the coin.

Maybe when you were first working on it, it may have made sense to reduce the amount of coins one would get from digging gradually every year or so, sort of like the mining block reward reduction, but it is too late for that now, and this guy would still be digging huge amounts.

My question is what is the estimate, given his current rate of digging, will this go on?  Is he claiming like 10,000 clam per day, with an estimated 500k clam, so we are looking at 50 days of this?

I realize he can stop selling or digging at any time, but it may comfort some to know how long before this selling pressure should abate.

[dooglus]

Regarding the discussion on why he might be digging the clams in this fashion, one of the Dev's mentioned that it would be more difficult for them to do it this way because of the randomization, and the assumption is that they're doing it this way to perhaps send a message to us of their motivation.  I disagree that it would be more difficult.

I wonder if they didn't just grab a dump of the whole CLAM blockchain up to the last block where the initial distribution took place, exported all the diggable addresses in the order they were funded, and is just backtracking their way through the list while matching each funded addresses to ones that they own.  This makes the most sense to me, anyways.

It seems to me you either:

a) check each of the 100k addresses you own to see it if it funded, or

b) check each of the 3 million funded address to see if you own it

(a) is 30 times less work than (b) - so why would you do (b)?

Just started looking at Clams.  Is this a typo on the website where it mentions May 2013?

http://clamclient.com/start/download/

Yes that is a typo...

May 12, 2014 - Source: www.Clamcoin.org

It's possible for anyone to submit fixes to the CLAM website. I just submitted a pull request to fix the date:
  https://github.com/nochowderforyou/nochowderforyou.github.io/pull/3

Once that pull request is merged, the website updates itself automatically.

Also, I just wanted to chip in my two cents in regards to forcing people to wait after digging their CLAMS.  I am strongly against this.  It sounds Dooglus was at one point as well.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a delay. The discussion I saw last night was from people proposing an expiry date for CLAM digging. For example, if you don't dig up and spend your CLAMs by the end of the year, they vanish forever. That's obviously a good thing for the people who already dug up their CLAMs and a bad thing for those who didn't...

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

It's hardly a "scam" if the developers "only" give away free coins for the first 18 months instead of forever. But putting an expiry date on digging does seem to remove one of the most innovative qualities of CLAM, as I see it.

Is dooglus the developer of clam? I know he uses it on his website for gambling but didnt know he was the inventoe of clam. I don't think he is going for profit, he has always been fair and will stay it!

I am *a* developer of CLAM, but not its inventor. I didn't hear about CLAM until it had been live for quite some time, and so wasn't at all involved in the initial distribution. I've nothing against making a profit - I don't think making a profit is incompatible with being fair. I attempt to be both fair and profitable.

My question is what is the estimate, given his current rate of digging, will this go on?  Is he claiming like 10,000 clam per day, with an estimated 500k clam, so we are looking at 50 days of this?

It's hard to get a clear idea of how it will play out. Assuming he is able to dig 3% from each block, that gives him 0.03 (3%) of 3208032 (funded addresses) * 4.60545574 (CLAMs per address) = 443,233 CLAMs. At 15k per day that's 30 days. But there's no reason to assume the digging won't speed up or slow down. Indeed, we can't actually detect "digging" at all. All we can detect is when dug outputs move for the first time. It's quite possible that he already has 500k CLAMs in his wallet, and is just spending them one output at a time. In other words, "digging up old CLAMs" doesn't leave a mark on the blockchain. To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Here's an updated chart of the digging action:



and here's an independently generated chart, showing how the recent digs fit in with the all-time growth:

http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/CLAM/charts.php?type=clamsupply

[Cyrax89721]

Regarding the discussion on why he might be digging the clams in this fashion, one of the Dev's mentioned that it would be more difficult for them to do it this way because of the randomization, and the assumption is that they're doing it this way to perhaps send a message to us of their motivation.  I disagree that it would be more difficult.

I wonder if they didn't just grab a dump of the whole CLAM blockchain up to the last block where the initial distribution took place, exported all the diggable addresses in the order they were funded, and is just backtracking their way through the list while matching each funded addresses to ones that they own.  This makes the most sense to me, anyways.

It seems to me you either:

a) check each of the 100k addresses you own to see it if it funded, or

b) check each of the 3 million funded address to see if you own it

(a) is 30 times less work than (b) - so why would you do (b)?

I'm not very familiar with the client;  I'm guessing this means you can bulk enter all your addresses and it automatically digs them for you?

[kolloh]

Indeed, we can't actually detect "digging" at all. All we can detect is when dug outputs move for the first time. It's quite possible that he already has 500k CLAMs in his wallet, and is just spending them one output at a time. In other words, "digging up old CLAMs" doesn't leave a mark on the blockchain. To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Interesting. Although, if they were already all dug up, the block order that they are being moved in seems to make even less sense.

[BayAreaCoins]

I don't think anyone is suggesting a delay....

I saw a conversation in the troll box in regards to requiring people to stake their CLAMS for whatever length of time until they could spend them.  I disliked that idea.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a delay. The discussion I saw last night was from people proposing an expiry date for CLAM digging. For example, if you don't dig up and spend your CLAMs by the end of the year, they vanish forever. That's obviously a good thing for the people who already dug up their CLAMs and a bad thing for those who didn't...

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

It's hardly a "scam" if the developers "only" give away free coins for the first 18 months instead of forever. But putting an expiry date on digging does seem to remove one of the most innovative qualities of CLAM, as I see it.

It is scammy Doog.  You are saying it doesn't seem like an issue to you taking away peoples paper wallet CLAMS.  Which is essentially what they are.  I don't know if it would be red trust worthy, but it seems on the fence.
 

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

You want to do this to avoid other peoples from joining CLAM for free in fear of one large dumper it seems.

Putting a date like that could be horrible for CLAM as well and fuck up the "natural growth".  It might cause all the people who would dig in a 10 year time span to do it in a 100 day span.

It would also royally fuck up the way I've told people about CLAMS and a lot of hard work that went into assuring people they could worry about them 5 years down the road.

Plus it would fuck up the long term business plan of my little ClamChecker.com site and any other site dedicated to helping people learn about this great fair distributed coin


Edit:

(I know we are just casually talking about it and it isn't planned or anything. Just voicing what I think from my side of the fence and no disrespect intended!)

[tspacepilot]

To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Which one is it?  That is, is the dig-whale moving these CLAMS to new CLAM addresses or are you just seeing them stake?

[dooglus]

It seems to me you either:

a) check each of the 100k addresses you own to see it if it funded, or

b) check each of the 3 million funded address to see if you own it

(a) is 30 times less work than (b) - so why would you do (b)?

I'm not very familiar with the client;  I'm guessing this means you can bulk enter all your addresses and it automatically digs them for you?

I'm not even talking about how the client actually works, but theoretically, if you have 100k addresses and you know that 3 million addresses were funded, do you loop through the 100k addresses you own or through the 3m million that were funded?

How the client actually works is that you import your wallet, which causes all the private keys in the wallet to be imported into your CLAM wallet, and then it scans the whole blockchain looking for transactions which affect the addresses you own. It does so from the oldest to the newest block, and keeps a list of all the relevant transactions in order of transaction ID.

However, having said all that I suspect our digger may just be using this flag:

$ clamd --help | grep minimize
  -minimizecoinage       Minimize weight consumption (experimental) (default: 0)

It makes the client always spend the youngest outputs first. Since outputs funded in higher numbered blocks have less confirmations than those funded in lower numbered blocks it would have the effect of spending the outputs from the highest numbered blocks first.

Edit:

Indeed, we can't actually detect "digging" at all. All we can detect is when dug outputs move for the first time. It's quite possible that he already has 500k CLAMs in his wallet, and is just spending them one output at a time. In other words, "digging up old CLAMs" doesn't leave a mark on the blockchain. To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Interesting. Although, if they were already all dug up, the block order that they are being moved in seems to make even less sense.

See above. I think we might simply be seeing the result of the -minimizecoinage flag.

To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Which one is it?  That is, is the dig-whale moving these CLAMS to new CLAM addresses or are you just seeing them stake?

All the transactions I've looked at have been spends, not staking transactions. I think he's probably moving the outputs to poloniex, one at a time.

[dooglus]

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

You want to do this to avoid other peoples from joining CLAM for free in fear of one large dumper it seems.

No, I don't want to do it at all. You're quoting yourself there, not me. I never said I want to stop people digging.

I said it had been discussed in the JD chat, and I figure this is a better place to discuss it. I'm personally not in favour of it.

Putting a date like that could be horrible for CLAM as well and fuck up the "natural growth".  It might cause all the people who would dig in a 10 year time span to do it in a 100 day span.

It would also royally fuck up the way I've told people about CLAMS and a lot of hard work that went into assuring people they could worry about them 5 years down the road.

Plus it would fuck up the long term business plan of my little ClamChecker.com site and any other site dedicated to helping people learn about this great fair distributed coin

Right. We've been telling people all along that there's no expiry date. I think it's too late to go back on that now.

[BayAreaCoins]

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

You want to do this to avoid other peoples from joining CLAM for free in fear of one large dumper it seems.

No, I don't want to do it at all. You're quoting yourself there, not me. I never said I want to stop people digging.

I said it had been discussed in the JD chat, and I figure this is a better place to discuss it. I'm personally not in favour of it.

Putting a date like that could be horrible for CLAM as well and fuck up the "natural growth".  It might cause all the people who would dig in a 10 year time span to do it in a 100 day span.

It would also royally fuck up the way I've told people about CLAMS and a lot of hard work that went into assuring people they could worry about them 5 years down the road.

Plus it would fuck up the long term business plan of my little ClamChecker.com site and any other site dedicated to helping people learn about this great fair distributed coin

Right. We've been telling people all along that there's no expiry date. I think it's too late to go back on that now.

*Huge sigh of relief*



Agree 100000%

[dooglus]

*Huge sigh of relief*



Agree 100000%

When I said last night that I think the expiry date should be "5 minutes after clamchecker launches", I was joking...

[BayAreaCoins]

*Huge sigh of relief*



Agree 100000%

When I said last night that I think the expiry date should be "5 minutes after clamchecker launches", I was joking...

Ooooo now it all makes sense!  I read the one line, but didn't connect the conversation last night.

Har har har dooglus what a sense of humor I'd do magic with that 5 minutes though !!!

[salex8216]

I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat

It's possible for anyone to submit fixes to the CLAM website. I just submitted a pull request to fix the date:
  https://github.com/nochowderforyou/nochowderforyou.github.io/pull/3

Importing of this wallet do nothing.
Where is my CLAM