[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[BayAreaCoins]

I don't think anyone is suggesting a delay....

I saw a conversation in the troll box in regards to requiring people to stake their CLAMS for whatever length of time until they could spend them.  I disliked that idea.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a delay. The discussion I saw last night was from people proposing an expiry date for CLAM digging. For example, if you don't dig up and spend your CLAMs by the end of the year, they vanish forever. That's obviously a good thing for the people who already dug up their CLAMs and a bad thing for those who didn't...

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

It's hardly a "scam" if the developers "only" give away free coins for the first 18 months instead of forever. But putting an expiry date on digging does seem to remove one of the most innovative qualities of CLAM, as I see it.

It is scammy Doog.  You are saying it doesn't seem like an issue to you taking away peoples paper wallet CLAMS.  Which is essentially what they are.  I don't know if it would be red trust worthy, but it seems on the fence.
 

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

You want to do this to avoid other peoples from joining CLAM for free in fear of one large dumper it seems.

Putting a date like that could be horrible for CLAM as well and fuck up the "natural growth".  It might cause all the people who would dig in a 10 year time span to do it in a 100 day span.

It would also royally fuck up the way I've told people about CLAMS and a lot of hard work that went into assuring people they could worry about them 5 years down the road.

Plus it would fuck up the long term business plan of my little ClamChecker.com site and any other site dedicated to helping people learn about this great fair distributed coin


Edit:

(I know we are just casually talking about it and it isn't planned or anything. Just voicing what I think from my side of the fence and no disrespect intended!)

[tspacepilot]

To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Which one is it?  That is, is the dig-whale moving these CLAMS to new CLAM addresses or are you just seeing them stake?

[dooglus]

It seems to me you either:

a) check each of the 100k addresses you own to see it if it funded, or

b) check each of the 3 million funded address to see if you own it

(a) is 30 times less work than (b) - so why would you do (b)?

I'm not very familiar with the client;  I'm guessing this means you can bulk enter all your addresses and it automatically digs them for you?

I'm not even talking about how the client actually works, but theoretically, if you have 100k addresses and you know that 3 million addresses were funded, do you loop through the 100k addresses you own or through the 3m million that were funded?

How the client actually works is that you import your wallet, which causes all the private keys in the wallet to be imported into your CLAM wallet, and then it scans the whole blockchain looking for transactions which affect the addresses you own. It does so from the oldest to the newest block, and keeps a list of all the relevant transactions in order of transaction ID.

However, having said all that I suspect our digger may just be using this flag:

$ clamd --help | grep minimize
  -minimizecoinage       Minimize weight consumption (experimental) (default: 0)

It makes the client always spend the youngest outputs first. Since outputs funded in higher numbered blocks have less confirmations than those funded in lower numbered blocks it would have the effect of spending the outputs from the highest numbered blocks first.

Edit:

Indeed, we can't actually detect "digging" at all. All we can detect is when dug outputs move for the first time. It's quite possible that he already has 500k CLAMs in his wallet, and is just spending them one output at a time. In other words, "digging up old CLAMs" doesn't leave a mark on the blockchain. To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Interesting. Although, if they were already all dug up, the block order that they are being moved in seems to make even less sense.

See above. I think we might simply be seeing the result of the -minimizecoinage flag.

To dig all you do is import your old wallet.dat file into your CLAM client. Nothing hits the network until you move or stake those dug CLAMs, which is what we're seeing now.

Which one is it?  That is, is the dig-whale moving these CLAMS to new CLAM addresses or are you just seeing them stake?

All the transactions I've looked at have been spends, not staking transactions. I think he's probably moving the outputs to poloniex, one at a time.

[dooglus]

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

You want to do this to avoid other peoples from joining CLAM for free in fear of one large dumper it seems.

No, I don't want to do it at all. You're quoting yourself there, not me. I never said I want to stop people digging.

I said it had been discussed in the JD chat, and I figure this is a better place to discuss it. I'm personally not in favour of it.

Putting a date like that could be horrible for CLAM as well and fuck up the "natural growth".  It might cause all the people who would dig in a 10 year time span to do it in a 100 day span.

It would also royally fuck up the way I've told people about CLAMS and a lot of hard work that went into assuring people they could worry about them 5 years down the road.

Plus it would fuck up the long term business plan of my little ClamChecker.com site and any other site dedicated to helping people learn about this great fair distributed coin

Right. We've been telling people all along that there's no expiry date. I think it's too late to go back on that now.

[BayAreaCoins]

I believe CLAM should remain how it is or else it will be viewed by everyone as a scamcoin with developers/dooglus who are only interested in their own profits/protecting their profits by using code.

You want to do this to avoid other peoples from joining CLAM for free in fear of one large dumper it seems.

No, I don't want to do it at all. You're quoting yourself there, not me. I never said I want to stop people digging.

I said it had been discussed in the JD chat, and I figure this is a better place to discuss it. I'm personally not in favour of it.

Putting a date like that could be horrible for CLAM as well and fuck up the "natural growth".  It might cause all the people who would dig in a 10 year time span to do it in a 100 day span.

It would also royally fuck up the way I've told people about CLAMS and a lot of hard work that went into assuring people they could worry about them 5 years down the road.

Plus it would fuck up the long term business plan of my little ClamChecker.com site and any other site dedicated to helping people learn about this great fair distributed coin

Right. We've been telling people all along that there's no expiry date. I think it's too late to go back on that now.

*Huge sigh of relief*



Agree 100000%

[dooglus]

*Huge sigh of relief*



Agree 100000%

When I said last night that I think the expiry date should be "5 minutes after clamchecker launches", I was joking...

[BayAreaCoins]

*Huge sigh of relief*



Agree 100000%

When I said last night that I think the expiry date should be "5 minutes after clamchecker launches", I was joking...

Ooooo now it all makes sense!  I read the one line, but didn't connect the conversation last night.

Har har har dooglus what a sense of humor I'd do magic with that 5 minutes though !!!

[salex8216]

I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat

It's possible for anyone to submit fixes to the CLAM website. I just submitted a pull request to fix the date:
  https://github.com/nochowderforyou/nochowderforyou.github.io/pull/3

Importing of this wallet do nothing.
Where is my CLAM 

[xploited]

I don't think the digging should be changed.

Me and creative discussed this with each other before we launched CLAM and made the conscious decision to not end the digging. We wanted to include as many people as possible and we wanted them to always be able to redeem their CLAM.

I think its frustrating for current clam investors to see someone with potentially so many CLAMs (including myself) but ultimately I feel these issues will work themselfs out over time as the available distribution amount increases.

As CLAM's inflates the potential effect further large digs could have will diminish even without doing anything other then waiting.

So while in the short term its annoying to deal with the uncertainty.. getting more dug clams on the market will ultimately improve the situation in the future without making any changes to consensus.

This is of course all just my opinion

[joust]

I don't think the digging should be changed.

Me and creative discussed this with each other before we launched CLAM and made the conscious decision to not end the digging. We wanted to include as many people as possible and we wanted them to always be able to redeem their CLAM.

I think its frustrating for current clam investors to see someone with potentially so many CLAMs (including myself) but ultimately I feel these issues will work themselfs out over time as the available distribution amount increases.

As CLAM's inflates the potential effect further large digs could have will diminish even without doing anything other then waiting.

So while in the short term its annoying to deal with the uncertainty.. getting more dug clams on the market will ultimately improve the situation in the future without making any changes to consensus.

This is of course all just my opinion

What do you mean by potential many clams? Are you saying that u own alot of btc address where u can digg clams out off?

Regards,
Joust

[chilly2k]

I don't think the digging should be changed.

Me and creative discussed this with each other before we launched CLAM and made the conscious decision to not end the digging. We wanted to include as many people as possible and we wanted them to always be able to redeem their CLAM.

I think its frustrating for current clam investors to see someone with potentially so many CLAMs (including myself) but ultimately I feel these issues will work themselfs out over time as the available distribution amount increases.

As CLAM's inflates the potential effect further large digs could have will diminish even without doing anything other then waiting.

So while in the short term its annoying to deal with the uncertainty.. getting more dug clams on the market will ultimately improve the situation in the future without making any changes to consensus.

This is of course all just my opinion

What do you mean by potential many clams? Are you saying that u own alot of btc address where u can digg clams out off?

Regards,
Joust

   He is including himself in the current clam investors, not as a whale/digger.   

[xploited]

What do you mean by potential many clams? Are you saying that u own alot of btc address where u can digg clams out off?

I was saying that the only way we can know the person actually has 3% of the clams is for him to claim them, aka move them. Currently its implied he has 3% of all clams by the way he's been claiming but he has yet to actually move the entire 3% it seems likely he has.

Chilly is correct also though. I am including myself as a current clam investor

[statdude]

With such a high staking rate, within a few months huge digs will mean nothing anyway.

[tspacepilot]

I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat

Importing of this wallet do nothing.
Where is my CLAM 

It's not non-zero that matters, it's > than some established dust limit.  I think that it was said upthread that this was something like 10KSat.  If you're sure you had more than that in your wallet on 12 May 2014 maybe you wouldn't mind posting the relevant address so that someone else could check verify your issue.

[SuperClam]

Given the recent issues surrounding BTC at the moment, an issue was posted to the client repository a couple of days ago.

Things like this shouldn't happen in a vacuum.
Comments and opinions would be appreciated.

https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/issues/218

[EGStrategies]

pretty brutal for clam holders. any way to know what % of dug up clams have been moved (to exchanges?)

maybe I'm stupid for not caring too much that between btc's price and CLAM's in the past week I've lost around 8k usd in value

I believe the fundamental value of just-dice and clam is so much better than anything else in crypto that I just can't be worried. I have actually been less stressed about clam now that our melt up has ended and we are in a price level that will shake out the bandwagon hoppers and pure speculators

long live the great clam and just-dice

[dooglus]

With such a high staking rate, within a few months huge digs will mean nothing anyway.

It takes almost a year to stake 500k CLAMs:

>>> 500e3 / 60 / 24
347.22222222222223

347 days...

[dooglus]

I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat

It's possible for anyone to submit fixes to the CLAM website. I just submitted a pull request to fix the date:
  https://github.com/nochowderforyou/nochowderforyou.github.io/pull/3

Importing of this wallet do nothing.
Where is my CLAM 

We're going to need a little more detail. Which specific address was funded on 12th May 2014?

[thimo]

Can we do such giveaway like CLAM for MAPC?
We could share our both communities wallets to get freebies which would change ie into free coffee at local shops that work with our app

[Yannic]

Keep CALM, Keep CLAMs