[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[BayAreaCoins]

18:45:19 (965827) <@creativecuriosity> For fucks sake doog, choose a longer term dig image graph, lolz. That short term graph looks like a mountain, lmfao.

As requested, here's a longer term chart. Note the growth in the number dug at the beginning of December when JD relaunched with CLAM, and the vertical cliff at the beginning of January when a large LTC wallet was dug up:...

LOL

Funniest thing I've seen on this thread yet .

[TheFuneral]

How do we know it's the same person or one entity?

Is there some pattern in the digs that revels this?

[BayAreaCoins]

How do we know it's the same person or one entity?

Is there some pattern in the digs that revels this?

Do you even read before posting?

[statdude]

pretty brutal for clam holders. any way to know what % of dug up clams have been moved (to exchanges?)

[xploited]

Unfortunately the implication is "anyone with 100,000 BTC addresses gets 460,000 CLAM", which seems a little less fair.

I don't think anyone would get me or creative to suggest the distribution was perfectly fair which is why we always worded it "the fairest distribution" which I continue to agree with..  that doesn't mean it doesn't have its problems.

Its impossible to be 100% fair, there are always tradeoffs.

No matter which distribution method you use you are going to end up with situation where some users have a larger percentage of stake then others. The goal was to limit that as much as possible while including as many crypto users as possible instantly into the fold.    

While it is very frustrating for me to see someone potentially have 460, 000 CLAM (using your example), in my mind its still fair.

[Krona Rev]

3.5% of the initial distribution means around 517k CLAMs. In which case this digging spree is only just getting started.

So what do we do?

I don't think changes to the coin should be considered. It's no surprise that there are some people with access to a Satoshi-level supply.

With a half million clams, someone can crash the price temporarily. However, as has been mentioned, this isn't the most profitable move.

Compare it to the block reward. With 1 clam reward being produced roughly every minute, there are roughly half a million clams produced every year. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a year, it's similar (in terms of supply) to the block reward doubling. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop by half. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a month, it's similar to the block reward increasing to roughly 13 clams per minute. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop to roughly the 1 mbit level.

Incidentally, while this is obviously bad for the price, it may ultimately cause Clams to climb higher on coinmarketcap.com, since for some reason coinmarketcap.com does not count still-buried clams in the supply.

[dooglus]

I don't think changes to the coin should be considered. It's no surprise that there are some people with access to a Satoshi-level supply.

With a half million clams, someone can crash the price temporarily. However, as has been mentioned, this isn't the most profitable move.

Compare it to the block reward. With 1 clam reward being produced roughly every minute, there are roughly half a million clams produced every year. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a year, it's similar (in terms of supply) to the block reward doubling. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop by half. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a month, it's similar to the block reward increasing to roughly 13 clams per minute. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop to roughly the 1 mbit level.

Incidentally, while this is obviously bad for the price, it may ultimately cause Clams to climb higher on coinmarketcap.com, since for some reason coinmarketcap.com does not count still-buried clams in the supply.

Both creative and xploited remember me arguing with them long ago about maybe suspending "digging" at some point in the future. I have no recollection of the argument, but apparently my position was that it would be unfair to suspend digging, and I convinced them both of that point of view.

I can see both sides: it's understandable that the people who already "dug" their CLAMs would want to suspend future digging so that their own share of the CLAM supply isn't diluted by newcomers. But it's also great for CLAM that we can tell newcomers "hey, check CLAM out - you probably already have some". We've seen people come to Just-Dice to dig their CLAM and stick around as part of the community, purely because they were able to claim "free money" to get started with. I don't think there's any doubt that CLAM is only as well known as it is today because of the widespread initial distribution. Shutting that off now turns CLAM into "just another shitcoin" in some ways. As I see it, the initial distribution is really what sets CLAM apart from the crowd.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say. I've seen quite a few people in the Just-Dice chat arguing that the 15 million "undug" CLAM is a huge liability, and makes people hold back from investing in the coin.

[shanem]

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

[TwinWinNerD]

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

Really? If something like this would happen, I'd expect multiple pages of discussion, but apparently nothing. /s

[joust]

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

Really? If something like this would happen, I'd expect multiple pages of discussion, but apparently nothing. /s

Dont believe that, it didnt happen and if it would happen there would be a huge discussion about" clam buy it now" or something like that. Clam is very stable in the price and has a really close xommmunity(on just-dice.com)

Regards,
Joust

[stoveshop]

hi have not been on here for a while.

[chilly2k]

I don't think changes to the coin should be considered. It's no surprise that there are some people with access to a Satoshi-level supply.

With a half million clams, someone can crash the price temporarily. However, as has been mentioned, this isn't the most profitable move.

Compare it to the block reward. With 1 clam reward being produced roughly every minute, there are roughly half a million clams produced every year. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a year, it's similar (in terms of supply) to the block reward doubling. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop by half. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a month, it's similar to the block reward increasing to roughly 13 clams per minute. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop to roughly the 1 mbit level.

Incidentally, while this is obviously bad for the price, it may ultimately cause Clams to climb higher on coinmarketcap.com, since for some reason coinmarketcap.com does not count still-buried clams in the supply.

Both creative and xploited remember me arguing with them long ago about maybe suspending "digging" at some point in the future. I have no recollection of the argument, but apparently my position was that it would be unfair to suspend digging, and I convinced them both of that point of view.

I can see both sides: it's understandable that the people who already "dug" their CLAMs would want to suspend future digging so that their own share of the CLAM supply isn't diluted by newcomers. But it's also great for CLAM that we can tell newcomers "hey, check CLAM out - you probably already have some". We've seen people come to Just-Dice to dig their CLAM and stick around as part of the community, purely because they were able to claim "free money" to get started with. I don't think there's any doubt that CLAM is only as well known as it is today because of the widespread initial distribution. Shutting that off now turns CLAM into "just another shitcoin" in some ways. As I see it, the initial distribution is really what sets CLAM apart from the crowd.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say. I've seen quite a few people in the Just-Dice chat arguing that the 15 million "undug" CLAM is a huge liability, and makes people hold back from investing in the coin.

IS the sky falling?  Again!!!  

    As long as this is not an exploit, I have no problems with the clams being dug.  We shouldn't change the rules in the middle of the game.  

I would bet 80% of clam holders would want to freeze digging, just to hold their stake and value.  I'm in the 20% club, that says let it ride....

Once this person finishes digging/dumping, the price will stabilize for a little and then continue to rise.  But there should then be more clams on the market to help the growth without it getting to out of hand, to quick.          

   Now's the chance to by fresh clams, cheap....  

[anp31]

Agree, changing rules during the game is very unfair

[SuperClam]

Agree, changing rules during the game is very unfair

Such a change is extremely unlikely.

It would require near complete consensus of all of the Devs as well as the community and would take a reasonable amount of time to test, implement, and announce, among other requirements.

[Rampion]

What makes CLAM interesting is precisely its distribution - the fact that everyone who had some BTC in May 2014 was rewarded with a few CLAM has huge marketing potential. The fact that there's still 15M CLAM "undigged" is NOT a liability, on the contrary it is a demonstration that there's still a lot of people that could potentially enter the market and community.

Stopping the digging would be pretty lame - and CLAM would become "yet another scamcoin". Furthermore, if such a change is announced (the end of digging), I'm sure you would see the opposite reaction you'd expect: people would hurry to claim their CLAMs to dump them asap.

[gordob]

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say. I've seen quite a few people in the Just-Dice chat arguing that the 15 million "undug" CLAM is a huge liability, and makes people hold back from investing in the coin.

I am no guru on this but a couple thoughts from my side

1. This person has to own allot of Btc address, incl private, to even claim these free clam digs!
Q: How would anyone have access to so many addresses?
Q: Person has not made themselves known, surely if you had all these addresses and clams, you would shout - not in this case
Q: - Based on the above have the required amount of btc in each address before May 12 2014?
-- all seems questionable and illegitimate claims of clam

If not, then i would love to hear from this person or group of people involved?

[Rampion]

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say. I've seen quite a few people in the Just-Dice chat arguing that the 15 million "undug" CLAM is a huge liability, and makes people hold back from investing in the coin.

I am no guru on this but a couple thoughts from my side

1. This person has to own allot of Btc address, incl private, to even claim these free clam digs!
Q: How would anyone have access to so many addresses?
Q: Person has not made themselves known, surely if you had all these addresses and clams, you would shout - not in this case
Q: - Based on the above have the required amount of btc in each address before May 12 2014?
-- all seems questionable and illegitimate claims of clam

If not, then i would love to hear from this person or group of people involved?

Any successful service that has a wallet per user will control MANY funded addresses. Think about online wallets, markets, laundry services, gambling sites, etc. etc. etc.

You could be looking at hundreds of thousands of addresses controlled by a single entity.

That's in fact the major tradeoff with "blockchain distribution" - service operators will get the lion share of the pie, while their users will get nothing.

[oldkolobok]

Just found this list on Just-Dice:

biggest cumulative amount wagered in last 12 hours

+---------+-----------------+
| uid     | wagered         |
+---------+-----------------+
|  986902 | 26,766.11726771 |
| 1192330 |  4,826.64010714 |
| 1208485 |  4,048.47193957 |
| 1159336 |  2,286.08000000 |
| 1192465 |  1,410.33322550 |
|     120 |  1,176.11407621 |
| 1125335 |    844.62820072 |
| 1131019 |    710.79843750 |
| 1209281 |    701.37071454 |
|  777777 |    648.37109375 |

Seems like the guy who is digging up all these Clams likes to take a risk 

[chilly2k]

Just found this list on Just-Dice:

biggest cumulative amount wagered in last 12 hours

+---------+-----------------+
| uid     | wagered         |
+---------+-----------------+
|  986902 | 26,766.11726771 |
| 1192330 |  4,826.64010714 |
| 1208485 |  4,048.47193957 |
| 1159336 |  2,286.08000000 |
| 1192465 |  1,410.33322550 |
|     120 |  1,176.11407621 |
| 1125335 |    844.62820072 |
| 1131019 |    710.79843750 |
| 1209281 |    701.37071454 |
|  777777 |    648.37109375 |

Seems like the guy who is digging up all these Clams likes to take a risk 

  No...  He's running a bot.

10:37:11 *** (986902) <botox> [#783773238] bet 1.08584688 CLAM at 80% and won 0.25788863 CLAM ***

[Cyrax89721]

Notice how the digs are all from initial distribution blocks 9121 and 9122... Looking back further, I see that the digging took ~3.6% of the rewards from block 9128 (256 of 7120), then took 3.6% of the rewards from block 9127 (261 of 7120), then took 3.3% of the rewards from block 9122 (164 of 4984). Blocks 9123 through 9126 only had 356, 0, 712, and 356 rewards each, so I didn't bother checking the percentage claimed from those.

So it looks like this guy, whoever he is, is able to claim around 3.5% of the rewards in each block, and is working his way backwards through the blocks.  According to xploited, the initial distribution ordered the rewards randomly, so there's no reason to think that he won't be able to claim a similar percentage of the rewards from all the blocks.

Regarding the discussion on why he might be digging the clams in this fashion, one of the Dev's mentioned that it would be more difficult for them to do it this way because of the randomization, and the assumption is that they're doing it this way to perhaps send a message to us of their motivation.  I disagree that it would be more difficult.

I wonder if they didn't just grab a dump of the whole CLAM blockchain up to the last block where the initial distribution took place, exported all the diggable addresses in the order they were funded, and is just backtracking their way through the list while matching each funded addresses to ones that they own.  This makes the most sense to me, anyways.