[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[forzendiablo]

I noticed this a few hours ago, couldn't decide whether I should publish it or not, and eventually decided I should. I hope I made the correct decision:

While I'm sure some will complain, I think you made the correct decision to publish.  This is a threat that has hung over clam since its inception and any other coin that mimics its distribution method.  It will be interesting to see how clam community reacts to the first "dig whale".

Really I don't think I had a choice. I could have kept the information to myself and sold my own CLAMs into the market, to people who didn't know what was about to happen, but that seems unfair. And the information would have become public soon enough anyway - the CLAM client logs the messages about which block CLAMs are being dug from in plain text, so someone else would have noticed it soon enough.

As of right now, the last 50 digs:

Code:

2015-08-25 02:15:29 DIG: 29531e5395cb758d4d528d8553b464fb2f624f74ae8b163d65c9a246c3b9ab91:101 xTSTYS5XFMkrPb5rygprbJBjdSHkaSVe3n from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:15:29 DIG: 7594092d31666f3bf2cf9e4fb0941b7c91ee3acbcc4d1f18dbf6dbfd8002387e:173 xJcNkdgdAQaPjqWdVNseMpdyqFNXzgjyDW from block 9116
2015-08-25 02:15:29 DIG: 7594092d31666f3bf2cf9e4fb0941b7c91ee3acbcc4d1f18dbf6dbfd8002387e:99 x9yMPwFsaeovLJxBKfzbk11XiNJQqozDT3 from block 9116
2015-08-25 02:15:29 DIG: 7594092d31666f3bf2cf9e4fb0941b7c91ee3acbcc4d1f18dbf6dbfd8002387e:6 xSeMPtttiA7jkTGjJz3pckyGYcVpZHXksK from block 9116
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:204 xHpzckBp8zWUFChNH4GggdVNpVjzomLm1J from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:220 xJpxLjXRoPUZUfKeGG8KtBZ8Tj7LurhCmy from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:147 x8UcoNmDgYbRkoMNfGZTR66JbfacmZBZCU from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:232 xUp7GCpT93r7GT7oCKV3VkLVTv3Z5RzPbS from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:252 xCQCfd6umxoSgajU7YZHz5rwHn99amRK7u from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:155 xLZTqbc9jC1kXacXzzheBYwvbc7bUx83Jy from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:260 xBCfuVBBjBMbzKQBKUJA3EjmFrkeAsJoWC from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:313 x8XtbsFT7H6WvvvbnWABnLih6LFDnQV8tm from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:212 xMA6rQzDhrZGautrDX5Q9cFzV6yEnHYFRP from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:274 xP9BqXumuQGmNXfvHgcTBt9QX6bgkn2QZ1 from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:16:24 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:196 xVnjpPYSJAApheQ8RuACLKrCnHX6xFhtoD from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:356 xLhbgLgCwG1JdyYhFKAJFizpvS4j7hEDfo from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:198 xHmPeE87brq894uiLwajn5Yu5yi7adgpHj from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:227 x93waAVtJ8bCar3Rp7XNZW2kAoNchv1jTJ from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:224 xBvgLzEvbdXJ785QMbyZPd89PCRCRTNygQ from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:188 xN1g14Rc2sia3F81onysx3gWgaxXVAEx8c from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: bf7b972218d580e0839e8fecfad2158524de35f00eed5b726e60c5c4a5a738c3:4 xVR4XbBeMu79cqWPKaWTRcd9yqESgSJ1pF from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:19:46 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:216 xSBFybmgiuyGUzDDWsXNdyVk6AyG61coqV from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:126 xJvCUm1xLVvg6p5mQXhyqSbQwtVzV9XVfF from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:331 xQveVsmVajhdsL7GYq5NqB5Z8hU6fMAH4U from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:174 xCwc6G4poNMb9uFeAWaY2vJRJjwnywfKP8 from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: bb6b40f40ffab26b694e333a42bc7a0f498f3a049edc1b271ca8896a61cd0e13:345 xK46q87ChFGanw9w9qMDHeq6y1RNCAbPjX from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:29 xNyp7C4PcJkVUQqTuhqoBdTuFaHrPM6tSY from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: bb6b40f40ffab26b694e333a42bc7a0f498f3a049edc1b271ca8896a61cd0e13:322 xWjpAYMu6AE759yL8D1NUcKp9MFhKJzWFo from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:197 xAJMSGT9et5rup3WtsG2aiCaQtFmkQdAeo from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:37 xQkBqZQKEb56RQQcbFRpXTmMWXWpwvXg8D from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:90 xSA9XWzoM7f7n3JiC41e2Z2R2rP23xBc9K from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:16 xBQmgDckmkJy7CzYqQzud6xWQs1EwkicB6 from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:327 xE3NS8XKoq2sVNvjWBAZaSBuBPMmKKYf3y from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:127 xFyAfVRD4jqXeZCkknWEcMu63ooUfTPEmD from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:174 xBgTZoN2vn5NWuNM5Zx2zmAoBzzz336W1J from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:332 xB5zZs2R7kkc3vjHhLQJV5huR93F5vyeqi from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:219 xQeieCuawPXnhwUYkfznJrGVBgwNLXmfVg from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:99 xTxburuiDebG3uBfNCNok4BcJcgWTfRkBV from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: bb6b40f40ffab26b694e333a42bc7a0f498f3a049edc1b271ca8896a61cd0e13:292 xVJz8VRbPGrnBANWZBGdDcVTpvMgi2zMhe from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: bb6b40f40ffab26b694e333a42bc7a0f498f3a049edc1b271ca8896a61cd0e13:306 xQngzgyDPSQ9ACMSmCg1uWzcAjHqx8Lhjm from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:292 xPj1Atme3kqCaz1SL24yjpggWooeXvLziP from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:218 xWrA9mQKzDJZLfWBATeKnL3F59yKNf2xUT from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:175 xAMaTF7MaR9XYi7T91L4FibBTFxuSPVRea from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:22 xGd5iwC2EjLPRee7xtj2g9YQdChAtxBaYT from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: bb6b40f40ffab26b694e333a42bc7a0f498f3a049edc1b271ca8896a61cd0e13:339 x9hqeNc6Tns1vJCfQQ2daAapLJjXDxEvx5 from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 8778ad625d18c8bc4142348c36afea7ce18bd9e3023e38c9a7efc2ba63fca17b:92 xCNF9wHuoqVYC4HU5SbJDTaN4xScceGQvb from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:133 xEzqsKhwmCYZTqMAy3LsCKb67TZvcphvtj from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:35 x9UxdwqGNxAUo4QLXqhUx3MJAeJ6XdBC61 from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 213aff6c5f811787123a5dd49864290f08f946c15c886a8b81659d07ce11c2b6:305 xPp7ZuGdf8hcA1uo4iW3gfAN7qVDKo1CkV from block 9114
2015-08-25 02:25:06 DIG: 77475c80c89d2e6b18224a65f8515fead8bafa0ab983c5b2dfbde42bf6ca918e:262 xKhM2LiPUh3LzAojYmhu21GbCBnZ7NWc4a from block 9114

this means you extracted loads of free CLAMs now ?

[dooglus]

While I'm sure some will complain, I think you made the correct decision to publish.  This is a threat that has hung over clam since its inception and any other coin that mimics its distribution method.  It will be interesting to see how clam community reacts to the first "dig whale".

We've had big digs before, and the market swallowed them up pretty well. But this one looks like it's going to be considerably bigger. Time will tell I guess.

The problem with this is that the bag holder won't be an idiot, he'll wait for the price to go back up. This discovery is going to significantly hinder clam investment in the future and is ultimately an issue with the distribution strategy.

"Everyone with a BTC address gets 4.6 CLAM" sounds like a good, fair distribution.

Unfortunately the implication is "anyone with 100,000 BTC addresses gets 460,000 CLAM", which seems a little less fair.

It's going to be hard to know whether he has dumped at all now that others are presumably dumping too.

We've always known there were around 15 million CLAMs lying around waiting to be dug up. I guess in a sense this 3% is nothing compared to what could theoretically happen.

this means you extracted loads of free CLAMs now ?

Me? No. It means someone is digging up a load of free CLAMs. But it's not me. I'm left holding a buttload of CLAMs that are worth half of what they were worth a week ago.

[akeetlebeetle]

I think I read on /r/bitcoin that a bunch of coins from MT Gox moved recently. Maybe whoever is in charge of those addresses is cashing in the clams.

[forzendiablo]

so theres no exploit to steal clams of others, just theres some big wallets with 100s of adresses right?

[kolloh]

so theres no exploit to steal clams of others, just theres some big wallets with 100s of adresses right?

Yeah, no exploit. Just a user with a lot of addressing digging up.

[forzendiablo]

then no worries i hold CLAM but also exchanged some to BTC and now put into MAPC ico - https://c-cex.com/?p=mapc-btc

seems like a safe bet at this point

[freedomno1]

so theres no exploit to steal clams of others, just theres some big wallets with 100s of adresses right?

Yeah, no exploit. Just a user with a lot of addressing digging up.

Well its another buying opportunity for anyone that wants to reenter clam at its old stabilization range
Good time to double down as well

[seedtrue]

Cheap CLAMs for everybody 

I have faith they will go back up. They always do. It is one less heavy hitter holding a bunch of CLAM over our heads now, or will be once this is all over.

[BayAreaCoins]

18:45:19 (965827) <@creativecuriosity> For fucks sake doog, choose a longer term dig image graph, lolz. That short term graph looks like a mountain, lmfao.

As requested, here's a longer term chart. Note the growth in the number dug at the beginning of December when JD relaunched with CLAM, and the vertical cliff at the beginning of January when a large LTC wallet was dug up:...

LOL

Funniest thing I've seen on this thread yet .

[TheFuneral]

How do we know it's the same person or one entity?

Is there some pattern in the digs that revels this?

[BayAreaCoins]

How do we know it's the same person or one entity?

Is there some pattern in the digs that revels this?

Do you even read before posting?

[statdude]

pretty brutal for clam holders. any way to know what % of dug up clams have been moved (to exchanges?)

[xploited]

Unfortunately the implication is "anyone with 100,000 BTC addresses gets 460,000 CLAM", which seems a little less fair.

I don't think anyone would get me or creative to suggest the distribution was perfectly fair which is why we always worded it "the fairest distribution" which I continue to agree with..  that doesn't mean it doesn't have its problems.

Its impossible to be 100% fair, there are always tradeoffs.

No matter which distribution method you use you are going to end up with situation where some users have a larger percentage of stake then others. The goal was to limit that as much as possible while including as many crypto users as possible instantly into the fold.    

While it is very frustrating for me to see someone potentially have 460, 000 CLAM (using your example), in my mind its still fair.

[Krona Rev]

3.5% of the initial distribution means around 517k CLAMs. In which case this digging spree is only just getting started.

So what do we do?

I don't think changes to the coin should be considered. It's no surprise that there are some people with access to a Satoshi-level supply.

With a half million clams, someone can crash the price temporarily. However, as has been mentioned, this isn't the most profitable move.

Compare it to the block reward. With 1 clam reward being produced roughly every minute, there are roughly half a million clams produced every year. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a year, it's similar (in terms of supply) to the block reward doubling. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop by half. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a month, it's similar to the block reward increasing to roughly 13 clams per minute. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop to roughly the 1 mbit level.

Incidentally, while this is obviously bad for the price, it may ultimately cause Clams to climb higher on coinmarketcap.com, since for some reason coinmarketcap.com does not count still-buried clams in the supply.

[dooglus]

I don't think changes to the coin should be considered. It's no surprise that there are some people with access to a Satoshi-level supply.

With a half million clams, someone can crash the price temporarily. However, as has been mentioned, this isn't the most profitable move.

Compare it to the block reward. With 1 clam reward being produced roughly every minute, there are roughly half a million clams produced every year. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a year, it's similar (in terms of supply) to the block reward doubling. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop by half. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a month, it's similar to the block reward increasing to roughly 13 clams per minute. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop to roughly the 1 mbit level.

Incidentally, while this is obviously bad for the price, it may ultimately cause Clams to climb higher on coinmarketcap.com, since for some reason coinmarketcap.com does not count still-buried clams in the supply.

Both creative and xploited remember me arguing with them long ago about maybe suspending "digging" at some point in the future. I have no recollection of the argument, but apparently my position was that it would be unfair to suspend digging, and I convinced them both of that point of view.

I can see both sides: it's understandable that the people who already "dug" their CLAMs would want to suspend future digging so that their own share of the CLAM supply isn't diluted by newcomers. But it's also great for CLAM that we can tell newcomers "hey, check CLAM out - you probably already have some". We've seen people come to Just-Dice to dig their CLAM and stick around as part of the community, purely because they were able to claim "free money" to get started with. I don't think there's any doubt that CLAM is only as well known as it is today because of the widespread initial distribution. Shutting that off now turns CLAM into "just another shitcoin" in some ways. As I see it, the initial distribution is really what sets CLAM apart from the crowd.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say. I've seen quite a few people in the Just-Dice chat arguing that the 15 million "undug" CLAM is a huge liability, and makes people hold back from investing in the coin.

[shanem]

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

[TwinWinNerD]

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

Really? If something like this would happen, I'd expect multiple pages of discussion, but apparently nothing. /s

[joust]

CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago.
Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.

Really? If something like this would happen, I'd expect multiple pages of discussion, but apparently nothing. /s

Dont believe that, it didnt happen and if it would happen there would be a huge discussion about" clam buy it now" or something like that. Clam is very stable in the price and has a really close xommmunity(on just-dice.com)

Regards,
Joust

[stoveshop]

hi have not been on here for a while.

[chilly2k]

I don't think changes to the coin should be considered. It's no surprise that there are some people with access to a Satoshi-level supply.

With a half million clams, someone can crash the price temporarily. However, as has been mentioned, this isn't the most profitable move.

Compare it to the block reward. With 1 clam reward being produced roughly every minute, there are roughly half a million clams produced every year. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a year, it's similar (in terms of supply) to the block reward doubling. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop by half. If the new big holder decides to sell his supply over the course of a month, it's similar to the block reward increasing to roughly 13 clams per minute. In that case it's reasonable for the price to drop to roughly the 1 mbit level.

Incidentally, while this is obviously bad for the price, it may ultimately cause Clams to climb higher on coinmarketcap.com, since for some reason coinmarketcap.com does not count still-buried clams in the supply.

Both creative and xploited remember me arguing with them long ago about maybe suspending "digging" at some point in the future. I have no recollection of the argument, but apparently my position was that it would be unfair to suspend digging, and I convinced them both of that point of view.

I can see both sides: it's understandable that the people who already "dug" their CLAMs would want to suspend future digging so that their own share of the CLAM supply isn't diluted by newcomers. But it's also great for CLAM that we can tell newcomers "hey, check CLAM out - you probably already have some". We've seen people come to Just-Dice to dig their CLAM and stick around as part of the community, purely because they were able to claim "free money" to get started with. I don't think there's any doubt that CLAM is only as well known as it is today because of the widespread initial distribution. Shutting that off now turns CLAM into "just another shitcoin" in some ways. As I see it, the initial distribution is really what sets CLAM apart from the crowd.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say. I've seen quite a few people in the Just-Dice chat arguing that the 15 million "undug" CLAM is a huge liability, and makes people hold back from investing in the coin.

IS the sky falling?  Again!!!  

    As long as this is not an exploit, I have no problems with the clams being dug.  We shouldn't change the rules in the middle of the game.  

I would bet 80% of clam holders would want to freeze digging, just to hold their stake and value.  I'm in the 20% club, that says let it ride....

Once this person finishes digging/dumping, the price will stabilize for a little and then continue to rise.  But there should then be more clams on the market to help the growth without it getting to out of hand, to quick.          

   Now's the chance to by fresh clams, cheap....