[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[LiberyOrDeath]

I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different.
To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features there are supposed to be? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket).

Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it?
Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat.

Still, I hope I'm wrong.

I've give this a lot of thought in the last weeks. Your argument is valid and it cannot be easily refuted. You are doing due diligence and it is what real investors are supposed to do.

However, the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is the fact that they are acting completely opposite of the way scammers would act. I mean for instance, yesterday if Alty wanted to pump up the price and sell his coins at profit he could have made his tweet a complete fabrication and something to rile the people up like "Yeah we are just finishing Beta testing - the final version of OneMarket is out tomorrow at 2 pm GMT". Doing things like this could have significantly increased the profits of the devs if they are indeed doing insider trading. Yet his tweet yesterday was blank and non-descript - so the whole idea of them trying to pull such an elaborate scam is questionable.

I mean you are basically throwing out a conspiracy theory that for the last two months a group of at least a dozen people have been pulling the strings of the half crypto community. Wouldn't there be any leaks, and proof that such a conspiracy was going on, or a rumour or at least a whisper from someone who knows the devs - No. We haven't seen it such a thing at all.

Therefore, I accept your argument as having a solid foundation, but consider my points for a minute if you have the time.

I don't like being take for the ride as much as you or anyone else here, but perhaps there is more to it than we can assume and at this point there is no middle way, I hope you guys understand that - either we are going down to 0 satoshi or we get "the Holy Grail".

[LiberyOrDeath]

I recommended everbody stop buying this coin until new feature release !

You should be charging people money for your advices. Why give away such wisdom for free?

[LiberyOrDeath]

why wouldn't they then sell their coins? http://cloak.blockexplorer.cc/richlist/index.php?min=1000

why would they have admitted that POSA wasn't working?

The reason i'm still holding. I just think it's a bad communication job.

I second that. The communication has been terrible for the last 4 weeks - that is the main reason we are seeing CLOAK at 35 k instead of 100 k.

[allyouracid]

Where is the one market ?

There.Is.No.Such.Thing.
There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket".

Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later.
Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by.

Alty said onemarket will be tested on testnet soon. It was supposed to be today, A simple delay means "there was never a OneMarket" to some.

I think it is just a delay, very common in the programming world.

But you can draw your own conclusions.

I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different.
To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features there are supposed to be? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket).

Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it?
Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat.

Still, I hope I'm wrong.

PoSA exists. There were the testings. There were the differences between MrRGnome and the team but even if he was very disappointed, he also confirmed that it's all there. This is absolutely no Scam. If it would be one, they would have announced a passed audit, than sold .....and away.

The problem is: There are delays. It's not the first one. But, even this I don't see as a big problem if there is communication. And in the first time there was a lot of communication and explanation. But now... one Tweet. That's all. And T H A T , for me, is the biggest problem and it threatens the whole project, because it looks fishy. Some think they are gone. Others think they could intend a price-drop to buy before the release and so on.

I personally think: They are under a lot of pressure and they don't know how to handle it. They don't want questions and they don't want to answer these questions. Therefore they avoid communicative ways like IRC or Forum. But I also think: There will be a release.

First, I like it how different points of view can be discussed here w/o being called a fucker, a retard, a fudder or whatsoever.
Next, I know PoSA exists. I'm talking about events which took place after the famous audit.

If they are under pressure, that would mean they work hard because they care about their product. Caring about a product in cryptoworld means that it should be used because the price reflects its state in the community. So it would be very important to get this PR thing done (maybe by asking someone else to do it), because this kind of "PR" (also related to this forum, clowns like YourMother etc just don't work for PR) totally destroys the coin. I doubt they don't know that.
So if they decide to not care about PR, they might not care much about cloaks image, place in the community etc. And a product I don't care about... I wouldn't invest time in development.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? This whole thing I mentioned earlier, plus the PR, leave the impression that the coin is just a means to an end. Not for the community, of course.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

[lab rat hoax]

piss poor public relations.   can't overlook that part  

[Minotaur26]

Where is the one market ?

There.Is.No.Such.Thing.
There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket".

Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later.
Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by.

Alty said onemarket will be tested on testnet soon. It was supposed to be today, A simple delay means "there was never a OneMarket" to some.

I think it is just a delay, very common in the programming world.

But you can draw your own conclusions.

I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different.
To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features are? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket).

Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it?
Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat.

Still, I hope I'm wrong.

You guys seem like nice people interested in anonymous cryptocurrency, but honestly is surprising how group psychology works and how people can get blindly behind an idea without any proof of progress. You were dealing with anonymous developers with no real life consequence after scamming you guys, they will be gone and there is nothing you can do. You guys had no public testing of anything, no bug reporting and project management interface, nothing.  How could you truly believe something was going to be released out of nowhere.

To be open, I am a Darkcoin supporter, but it seems to be very clear that this project did not include elements that would give any serious investor confidence to put their money in.

In Darkcoin we have:

1. Transparent Developers
2. A foundation liable for the project has been registered as an LLC in the USA.
3. A public testing thread on the forum where everybody contributes to testing future releases and interacts with the developer before a release date is set.
4  A Jira Bug tracking page to manage bug reports and project management.
5. A very active testnet.
6. True and proven innovation that is already making impact in the crypto scene: x11, DGW3, Masternodes, Darksend+
4. A third party review by Kristov Atlas that everybody will get to see.
5. Darksend+ will be open source soon

Why didn’t you require the same things from your team?  Anyway, you are still on time, as Darkcoin will be opensourcing Darksend soon. If you are still interested in anon cryptocurrencies, spend some time learning about Darkcoin and if you like it invest in it.

I hope people didnt get hurt too bad on this, best of luck to you all.

[LiberyOrDeath]

Where is the one market ?

There.Is.No.Such.Thing.
There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket".

Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later.
Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by.

Alty said onemarket will be tested on testnet soon. It was supposed to be today, A simple delay means "there was never a OneMarket" to some.

I think it is just a delay, very common in the programming world.

But you can draw your own conclusions.

I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different.
To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features there are supposed to be? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket).

Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it?
Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat.

Still, I hope I'm wrong.

PoSA exists. There were the testings. There were the differences between MrRGnome and the team but even if he was very disappointed, he also confirmed that it's all there. This is absolutely no Scam. If it would be one, they would have announced a passed audit, than sold .....and away.

The problem is: There are delays. It's not the first one. But, even this I don't see as a big problem if there is communication. And in the first time there was a lot of communication and explanation. But now... one Tweet. That's all. And T H A T , for me, is the biggest problem and it threatens the whole project, because it looks fishy. Some think they are gone. Others think they could intend a price-drop to buy before the release and so on.

I personally think: They are under a lot of pressure and they don't know how to handle it. They don't want questions and they don't want to answer these questions. Therefore they avoid communicative ways like IRC or Forum. But I also think: There will be a release.

You are right. PoSA does exits - it is real. It was audited by a third party - the audit didn't fulfill everybody's wish list 100% and then the coin went down big time.

If devs were con men, as some are saying why on earth would they request an audit by the third party and then post the result - even though they knew the ramifications of it.

We can accuse Alty and devs for doing many thing badly but one thing cannot be denied - they were totally honest - I mean 100% brutal honesty -and this is of course going to have an effect on the price.

Scamcoin devs spend all day posting on btctalk and twitter - CLOAK devs rarely post anything. Why? Perhaps they are indeed really busy and under immense pressure. We are not talking about some mambo-jumbo here - they have to deliver the Holy Grail - and it might take weeks, months or it might never happen. The future is unwritten.

Hope you have all cooled down a bit after this new shock - it's been almost 24 hours. Let's move on, those of us who have stayed in are all in, because there is no turning back now - and we know it.

[DentIt]

Alty ‏@CryptoPioneer  Sep 7
@ramikawach #Bittrex get ready for a surge in #Cloak #Cloakcoin volume in the next week or so!

But to be fair, maybe he was talking about SELL volume.  

I'm not a cheerleader for anybody, and I already said what I had to do about Alty and his lack of PR skills in my long post today.

The tweet that you are citing was never posted on Alty's twitter account - I have checked it on the day it happened, and you can check it now - there is no such a tweet on Alty's Twitter. Somebody fabricated this and posted it on the forum and now it is making rounds. Just want to make things clear here, for there are obviously so many fraudsters and scammers around here - you really don't know who to trust.

"Only your friend knows your secrets, so only he can reveal it...Who the cap fit - let them wear it"

Robert Nesta Marley

https://twitter.com/CryptoPioneer/status/508705270889861120

It's right there, I really don't know how you can miss it.

[allyouracid]

I've give this a lot of thought in the last weeks. Your argument is valid and it cannot be easily refuted. You are doing due diligence and it is what real investors are supposed to do.

Believe me, me too.

However, the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is the fact that they are acting completely opposite of the way scammers would act. I mean for instance, yesterday if Alty wanted to pump up the price and sell his coins at profit he could have made his tweet a complete fabrication and something to rile the people up like "Yeah we are just finishing Beta testing - the final version of OneMarket is out tomorrow at 2 pm GMT". Doing things like this could have significantly increased the profits of the devs if they are indeed doing insider trading. Yet his tweet yesterday was blank and non-descript - so the whole idea of them trying to pull such an elaborate scam is questionable.

I thought about this a lot. On one side, this kept me thinking the same as you do. On the other hand, I thought about it being a test round for a new way to pull money off of peoples' pockets. Trying not to do one big thing, but instead doing it slowly, looking how people react to excuses, trying to bring the price back up. Rinse and repeat and hope it pays out better than the "one big thing".
I know, that even sounds more like a conspiracy.

I mean you are basically throwing out a conspiracy theory that for the last two months a group of at least a dozen people have been pulling the strings of the half crypto community. Wouldn't there be any leaks, and proof that such a conspiracy was going on, or a rumour or at least a whisper from someone who knows the devs - No. We haven't seen it such a thing at all.

I agree, at least partially.

Therefore, I accept your argument as having a solid foundation, but consider my points for a minute if you have the time.

For sure, I'm doing that.

[Minotaur26]

Where is the one market ?

There.Is.No.Such.Thing.
There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket".

Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later.
Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by.

Alty said onemarket will be tested on testnet soon. It was supposed to be today, A simple delay means "there was never a OneMarket" to some.

I think it is just a delay, very common in the programming world.

But you can draw your own conclusions.

I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different.
To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features there are supposed to be? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket).

Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it?
Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat.

Still, I hope I'm wrong.

PoSA exists. There were the testings. There were the differences between MrRGnome and the team but even if he was very disappointed, he also confirmed that it's all there. This is absolutely no Scam. If it would be one, they would have announced a passed audit, than sold .....and away.

The problem is: There are delays. It's not the first one. But, even this I don't see as a big problem if there is communication. And in the first time there was a lot of communication and explanation. But now... one Tweet. That's all. And T H A T , for me, is the biggest problem and it threatens the whole project, because it looks fishy. Some think they are gone. Others think they could intend a price-drop to buy before the release and so on.

I personally think: They are under a lot of pressure and they don't know how to handle it. They don't want questions and they don't want to answer these questions. Therefore they avoid communicative ways like IRC or Forum. But I also think: There will be a release.

You are right. PoSA does exits - it is real. It was audited by a third party - the audit didn't fulfill everybody's wish list 100% and then the coin went down big time.

If devs were con men, as some are saying why on earth would they request an audit by the third party and then post the result - even though they knew the ramifications of it.

We can accuse Alty and devs for doing many thing badly but one thing cannot be denied - they were totally honest - I mean 100% brutal honesty -and this is of course going to have an effect on the price.

Scamcoin devs spend all day posting on btctalk and twitter - CLOAK devs rarely post anything. Why? Perhaps they are indeed really busy and under immense pressure. We are not talking about some mambo-jumbo here - they have to deliver the Holy Grail - and it might take weeks, months or it might never happen. The future is unwritten.

Hope you have all cooled down a bit after this new shock - it's been almost 24 hours. Let's move on, those of us who have stayed in are all in, because there is no turning back now - and we know it.

I hope is OK I give you an outsider perspective on this.  When you promise something will be delivered on a certain time frame when the due date finally comes you need an excuse to get out of the situation. The first time this happened was with that audit that no one saw or knew it was taking place ahead of time. So it is simple you create an expectation that moves the market, everybody thinks they are buying the rumour to sell the news, but before the due date comes they release a new piece of information that prevents them from actually having to deliver something concrete. That right there was your cue that something was terribly wrong.

Then after that, they promise several systems that will be delivered in about 10 days, how is that humanly possible? Have you ever worked on a real life project that was released in 10 days and was complete and successful? They drive the market again, and the day before the due date again they come up with an excuse. No main developer for 5 days etc, this is highly irresponsible but some people still support this behaviour. It is baffling.  Anyway, on your next investment ask for better warranties that your are investing into something legitimate, investments shouldn’t rely on trust, as little as possible, even with people you meet in person, even more on the internet.

The fact that you are left here wondering about what happened and even now no one cares to give you a clear explanation, long time supporters having to come up with conspiracy theories because no one cares is just a shame.

[allyouracid]

You guys seem like nice people interested in anonymous cryptocurrency, but honestly is surprising how group psychology works and how people can get blindly behind an idea without any proof of progress. You were dealing with anonymous developers with no real life consequence after scamming you guys, they will be gone and there is nothing you can do. You guys had no public testing of anything, no bug reporting and project management interface, nothing.  How could you truly believe something was going to be released out of nowhere.

To be open, I am a Darkcoin supporter, but it seems to be very clear that this project did not include elements that would give any serious investor confidence to put their money in.

In Darkcoin we have:

1. Transparent Developers
2. A foundation liable for the project has been registered as an LLC in the USA.
3. A public testing thread on the forum where everybody contributes to testing future releases and interacts with the developer before a release date is set.
4  A Jira Bug tracking page to manage bug reports and project management.
5. A very active testnet.
6. True and proven innovation that is already making impact in the crypto scene: x11, DGW3, Masternodes, Darksend+
4. A third party review by Kristov Atlas that everybody will get to see.
5. Darksend+ will be open source soon

Why didn’t you require the same things from your team?  Anyway, you are still on time, as Darkcoin will be opensourcing Darksend soon. If you are still interested in anon cryptocurrencies, spend some time learning about Darkcoin and if you like it invest in it.

I hope people didnt get hurt too bad on this, best of luck to you all.

Your arguments are good. To answer it (at least for me): it was a bit of greed. High volume, many waves. What kept me in after the big drop was the need to cover my losses, and finally, after some hard trading, the opportunity to get out while breaking even.
At work, we also use JIRA (and Confluence, Bitbucket, Bamboo, ...). Those are tools which are ideal (if not requirement, at least some of them or similar tools like Redmine) for a serious project. What do we have here? Fancy PDFs.

You are totally right, we should require at least a project management tool. If I ever calm down and decide to get back in, maybe I could help setup a Redmine installation, so the team can do some SCRUM to have timeframes for the project and, finally, some kind of system in their development.
This would render the fancy PDFs obsolete, as everyone would know what's happening and, for fucks sake, the team could notice early when somebody just doesn't show up for several days.

[2double0]

Cmon cloooak! pump soon please     

[allyouracid]

Cmon cloooak! pump soon please     

It hasn't even finished going down. Who on earth should pump cloak (notice how I stopped using capital letters for cloak? heh) right now?

[LiberyOrDeath]

However, the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is the fact that they are acting completely opposite of the way scammers would act. I mean for instance, yesterday if Alty wanted to pump up the price and sell his coins at profit he could have made his tweet a complete fabrication and something to rile the people up like "Yeah we are just finishing Beta testing - the final version of OneMarket is out tomorrow at 2 pm GMT". Doing things like this could have significantly increased the profits of the devs if they are indeed doing insider trading. Yet his tweet yesterday was blank and non-descript - so the whole idea of them trying to pull such an elaborate scam is questionable.

I thought about this a lot. On one side, this kept me thinking the same as you do. On the other hand, I thought about it being a test round for a new way to pull money off of peoples' pockets. Trying not to do one big thing, but instead doing it slowly, looking how people react to excuses, trying to bring the price back up. Rinse and repeat and hope it pays out better than the "one big thing".
I know, that even sounds more like a conspiracy.

It is far fetched, but not impossible. In these day and age we are seeing very sophisticated and elaborate scams, but I hope you are wrong - for the sake of the mental health of these decent people here

Anyway, I appreciate you, and the fact that we can have a healthy debate in dire circumstances such as these. It just goes to show that you are a gentleman and that's a rare thing these days, especially so on the Internet. Cheers.

[btcspender]

If the devs release a new ETA I think an under promise over deliver mentality is best, give themselves extra time for any hiccups and if they deliver early everyone is happy.

[LiberyOrDeath]

If the devs release a new ETA I think an under promise over deliver mentality is best, give themselves extra time for any hiccups and if they deliver early everyone is happy.

You gotta be kidding me. They should stay away from giving ETAs in order to avoid disasters such as the one we saw today.

[DentIt]

I'm not a cheerleader for anybody, and I already said what I had to do about Alty and his lack of PR skills in my long post today.

The tweet that you are citing was never posted on Alty's twitter account - I have checked it on the day it happened, and you can check it now - there is no such a tweet on Alty's Twitter. Somebody fabricated this and posted it on the forum and now it is making rounds.

https://twitter.com/CryptoPioneer/status/508705270889861120

It's right there, I really don't know how you can miss it.

Did you miss this too, or would you rather continue to ignore the existence of the tweet?

[Danoded]

Not surprising they didn't deliver. Not surprising at all.

[lab rat hoax]

where's yomama ?  time for another pep rally !!!

[allyouracid]

However, the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is the fact that they are acting completely opposite of the way scammers would act. I mean for instance, yesterday if Alty wanted to pump up the price and sell his coins at profit he could have made his tweet a complete fabrication and something to rile the people up like "Yeah we are just finishing Beta testing - the final version of OneMarket is out tomorrow at 2 pm GMT". Doing things like this could have significantly increased the profits of the devs if they are indeed doing insider trading. Yet his tweet yesterday was blank and non-descript - so the whole idea of them trying to pull such an elaborate scam is questionable.

I thought about this a lot. On one side, this kept me thinking the same as you do. On the other hand, I thought about it being a test round for a new way to pull money off of peoples' pockets. Trying not to do one big thing, but instead doing it slowly, looking how people react to excuses, trying to bring the price back up. Rinse and repeat and hope it pays out better than the "one big thing".
I know, that even sounds more like a conspiracy.

It is far fetched, but not impossible. In these day and age we are seeing very sophisticated and elaborate scams, but I hope you are wrong - for the sake of the mental health of these decent people here

Anyway, I appreciate you, and the fact that we can have a healthy debate in dire circumstances such as these. It just goes to show that you are a gentleman and that's a rare thing these days, especially so on the Internet. Cheers.

Thank you very much; I do appreciate your posts as well. Good conversation is important here. I don't know, but I guess that's just the way I was raised. I try to be as much myself as possible; an aspect I try to always keep in mind (more subconciously, I guess) while writing on the internet. Because it's so easy to make up a person on the internet one always wanted to be. I don't like that.

So, to the rest of your post, the sophisticated scams: that's it! Remember how bank scams looked back in, say, 1998? I did not even understand how these scammers could make money. And look at them now... I'd still say I'm kind of (kind of, not totally, as one never knows) immune to the current bank scams. And in crypto? Heck, one does not even always realize falling prey to a scam, as it often just looks like "well, it didn't work out".
The thing is - and people tend to forget that from time to time - we're operating in an area which is all about money. The fascinating part is that it's connected to a somewhat great, libertarian idea of "free money" ("free" from "freedom", as in "free software", not as in "free glass of beer for every 5th guest in our club tonight" ) which attracts many, many good people with the best of intentions. Often, this kind of people is not aware of all those scams taking place, because as good people, they avoided shady people in their "pre-crypto" life.

Now here, those shady people and those with good intentions get mixed together. I think this is a very interesting social aspect which deserves being watched and analyzed. This hasn't happened before; bitcointalk.org is the central that administrates the big, virtual house/city/whatever where honest people often work together with scammers without even knowing it.

And those scammers are good. It is already widely known what people do in the real world to get their hands on foreign money. And on the internet, there were also scams. Guys selling on eBay without ever delivering. They knew that one day, the police would knock on their door and, depending on how much they scammed, they might go to prison. Accepted risk.
Now imagine the potential of a world that offers a kind of pseudonymity which - if done right - makes it nearly impossible to be found. A world which is all about money! Money is its base. Imagine how many scammers become attracted to this, and even imagine how many future scammers are right now about to "learn Bitcoin" to become a pro scammer in the next years!

One should really do the work to calculate the sum of all known crypto scams, set it in relation to the timeframe in which crypto exists and to the size of the community/the marketcap of the according coins which were stolen. I'd guess that the relation of scams here is irrationally high, compared to the one in "real life".


Not sure if I manage to reply again, today. It's evening already and I got some stuff to do.