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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1935268 times)
Dusty
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March 29, 2014, 09:53:00 AM
 #7861

The trouble is that Bitcoin only works for most people when they guess right and entrust it to someone who doesn't happen to be a crook.  When they try to secure their ownership themselves it often turns into an unmitigated disaster.  The problem is more associated with computer (and device) security than it is with Bitcoin itself, but it's not probably going to get any better as time goes by.  Probably it will get worse in fact.
Actually that trend is reversing, just take a look at new generation wallets like https://greenaddress.it/

You have the convenience and ease of use of an online wallet but without any drawback since using a 2of2 signature the owner of the site can't run away with your funds.

For the same technological choice you are safe even if a trojan compromises your pc or your phone.

If they disappear your funds are safe using pre-signed transactions with nLockTime.

The backup is simple and one-time (using BIP32 HD wallets).

That considerably raises the bar for security relatively to all the others, but for unknown reasons (maybe polical ones?) greenaddress it's not even listed on the main bitcoin.org site.

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miscreanity
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March 30, 2014, 06:23:12 PM
 #7862

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.
Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.

Big rises have yet to backfill. In order for the $1000+ high to fill, it would have to drop below $300, possibly as low as ~$160 before the trend reverses.

Of course growth rates may be enough to keep that from happening. If the ~$400-430 range holds through the supposed China deadline and the big investments start drawing in new usage, we could easily be headed back to the moon.

In short, April is going to be a pivotal month for Bitcoin (and gold, silver, bonds, nearly everything else). I think if a collapse doesn't happen here, we'll know whether Bitcoin will truly thrive by late 3rd to 4th quarter this year.
sidhujag
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March 31, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
 #7863

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.
Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.

Big rises have yet to backfill. In order for the $1000+ high to fill, it would have to drop below $300, possibly as low as ~$160 before the trend reverses.

Of course growth rates may be enough to keep that from happening. If the ~$400-430 range holds through the supposed China deadline and the big investments start drawing in new usage, we could easily be headed back to the moon.

In short, April is going to be a pivotal month for Bitcoin (and gold, silver, bonds, nearly everything else). I think if a collapse doesn't happen here, we'll know whether Bitcoin will truly thrive by late 3rd to 4th quarter this year.

Volume is high according to current supply so my formula is supply*10.. aslong as we have 28k volume btc a day we should be going up until its not.

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cypherdoc
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March 31, 2014, 06:10:59 PM
 #7864

ppl are starting to talk of Bitcoin as a reserve currency as i had envisioned:

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-ruling-may-bright-side/
tvbcof
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March 31, 2014, 11:17:40 PM
 #7865

ppl are starting to talk of Bitcoin as a reserve currency as i had envisioned:

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-ruling-may-bright-side/

Ha!  Matonis could have taken almost the entire contents of this story from any of 100's of posts I've been spewing ad-nauseam for the last few years.  I hope his writings get some traction and get people thinking about all of the problems it would solve to focus on this use-case...if it's not already to late.


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March 31, 2014, 11:28:56 PM
 #7866

ppl are starting to talk of Bitcoin as a reserve currency as i had envisioned:

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-ruling-may-bright-side/

Ha!  Matonis could have taken almost the entire contents of this story from any of 100's of posts I've been spewing ad-nauseam for the last few years.  I hope his writings get some traction and get people thinking about all of the problems it would solve to focus on this use-case...if it's not already to late.


"to late"  Cheesy

The Crypto P2P FED infrastructure is being tried at the moment, "us" the speculators are being tested if we can effectively manage the XBT money supply 24/7 across space and time with limited information in the face of adversity and FUD. I think its going well considering all the noobs we picked up after we saw $400 the first time, noobs being those who haven't figured out sell high and buy low.  

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
marcus_of_augustus
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April 01, 2014, 02:08:22 AM
 #7867

ppl are starting to talk of Bitcoin as a reserve currency as i had envisioned:

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-ruling-may-bright-side/

Yup. The IRS ruling merely crystallises in many foggy minds what many of us have known all along. Unfortunately, a lot of VC's and USA based money seems to have already been thrown at making a Bitcoin branch that looks and feels like something the US authoritarian regulators might like ... and ended up with Pay-Pal2.0 ... oops. They need to raise their sights and take a look at the real high ground before they waste any more of their powder on those stinking trenches filled with the unfortunate US patriots.

Bitcoin technology is better suited to settlement/clearing and medium/long term International irreversible, censorship-resistant exchange of value. However, it does also pave the way for crypto-financial layers to be built on top that can deal with jurisdictional risk and instantaneous payments and etc, on a case by case basis.

miscreanity
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April 02, 2014, 01:37:07 AM
 #7868

ppl are starting to talk of Bitcoin as a reserve currency as i had envisioned:

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-ruling-may-bright-side/
Ha!  Matonis could have taken almost the entire contents of this story from any of 100's of posts I've been spewing ad-nauseam for the last few years.  I hope his writings get some traction and get people thinking about all of the problems it would solve to focus on this use-case...if it's not already to late.

Indeed, give credit where due. We're all in this together.
sidhujag
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April 02, 2014, 04:47:32 AM
 #7869

Its all about incentives.. us gov fucked up... trying to kill btc
by taxing this early.. it creates incentive to hodl and spend in btc instead of coming back to played out fiat.

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cypherdoc
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April 03, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
 #7870

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.

Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.



hey molecular,

was that your Trezor on the PIN entry video?  was that you talking?  Wink
cypherdoc
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April 03, 2014, 04:06:24 PM
 #7871

let's go.
molecular
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April 03, 2014, 04:49:05 PM
 #7872

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.

Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.



hey molecular,

was that your Trezor on the PIN entry video?  was that you talking?  Wink

yes. Guilty of owning a trezor and being able to count to 4. Wink

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Erdogan
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April 04, 2014, 07:40:51 AM
 #7873

If you have a claim on gold, where the gold is reserved for you and in store, like what you have if you store your gold with Euro Pacific Bank, the arrangement will not change the gold volume.

But we have also claims on gold, where there is no gold backing. When you claim it, you get either the gold or the same value in fiat at the going rate. This represent gold credit, and it increases the volume of gold plus gold credit.

So if you count the gold credit as the gold plus credit supply, we have gold plus credit inflation. Which lead to price inflation measured in gold, which is the same as gold price goes downward.
cypherdoc
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April 04, 2014, 02:57:33 PM
 #7874

If you have a claim on gold, where the gold is reserved for you and in store, like what you have if you store your gold with Euro Pacific Bank, the arrangement will not change the gold volume.

But we have also claims on gold, where there is no gold backing. When you claim it, you get either the gold or the same value in fiat at the going rate. This represent gold credit, and it increases the volume of gold plus gold credit.

So if you count the gold credit as the gold plus credit supply, we have gold plus credit inflation. Which lead to price inflation measured in gold, which is the same as gold price goes downward.

i've argued this for years.
Dr Bloggood
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April 06, 2014, 12:10:04 PM
 #7875

If you have a claim on gold, where the gold is reserved for you and in store, like what you have if you store your gold with Euro Pacific Bank, the arrangement will not change the gold volume.

But we have also claims on gold, where there is no gold backing. When you claim it, you get either the gold or the same value in fiat at the going rate. This represent gold credit, and it increases the volume of gold plus gold credit.

So if you count the gold credit as the gold plus credit supply, we have gold plus credit inflation. Which lead to price inflation measured in gold, which is the same as gold price goes downward.

What a beautiful way of saying "Those bastards have been manipulating the gold price to the hilt!" Smiley
sidhujag
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April 06, 2014, 04:12:02 PM
 #7876

If you have a claim on gold, where the gold is reserved for you and in store, like what you have if you store your gold with Euro Pacific Bank, the arrangement will not change the gold volume.

But we have also claims on gold, where there is no gold backing. When you claim it, you get either the gold or the same value in fiat at the going rate. This represent gold credit, and it increases the volume of gold plus gold credit.

So if you count the gold credit as the gold plus credit supply, we have gold plus credit inflation. Which lead to price inflation measured in gold, which is the same as gold price goes downward.

What a beautiful way of saying "Those bastards have been manipulating the gold price to the hilt!" Smiley

No more evident was this than in 2008 as meltdown happened paper gold fell
but physical was steady.

Jpm is the single biggest culprit by being backed by the fed with unlimited power to issue gold credit at will.. sometimes cornering the market to make profits like dumping through the 15xx wall with billions of $ of margin calls. Dimon said he outsmartedthe market by selling higj buying low
but he hurt the sentiment.. and now with things like bitcoin there are less manilulated risk reward plays for those that like to hedge inflation.

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miscreanity
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April 07, 2014, 12:50:37 AM
 #7877

Derivatives are about to be unleashed on Bitcoin, so the problems gold has will become Bitcoin's. Yes it's becoming a big boy's game, and it'll be manipulated all the same.

The only difference is that investment must be saturated before it's fleeced. Bitcoin will have to go up a very long way until it's no longer the golden child of institutional giants.
Carlton Banks
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April 07, 2014, 01:13:03 AM
 #7878

Derivatives are about to be unleashed on Bitcoin, so the problems gold has will become Bitcoin's. Yes it's becoming a big boy's game, and it'll be manipulated all the same.

The only difference is that investment must be saturated before it's fleeced. Bitcoin will have to go up a very long way until it's no longer the golden child of institutional giants.

I don't think the same games can be played as they are with PMs. Comex gold derivatives take advantage of the difficulty and expense of opting for physical delivery of gold contracts. There is no case to be made for the situation being the same for Bitcoin, and so if the Wall Street exchanges refuse or stall withdrawals, then they'll get tarred with the Gox moniker. Not to say that this won't happen, but I think the problems with Bitcoinica, Mt. Gox and Vicurex will be way too fresh in people's minds to permit recklessly large deposits on an exchange run in Wall Street (of all places, at this point in the history of that institution's reputation). Watch closely the language that gets used to describe their processes, if "withdrawal", "deposit" and "balance" are passed over for some other euphemisms, tread carefully, and deride loudly if necessary.

Any exchange that joins in with Second Market's 'hub and spoke' arrangement can expect to see some very guarded use of their deposit facilities. Sounds like a situation where mutual finger-pointing will replace meaningful responsibility if there was ever an issue.

Vires in numeris
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April 07, 2014, 01:13:44 AM
 #7879

Derivatives are about to be unleashed on Bitcoin, so the problems gold has will become Bitcoin's. Yes it's becoming a big boy's game, and it'll be manipulated all the same.

The only difference is that investment must be saturated before it's fleeced. Bitcoin will have to go up a very long way until it's no longer the golden child of institutional giants.

If the ETP gets naked shorted, we can always buy blocks of 25k for cheaper than they are worth and redeem them. Smiley

Also am not expecting it to be the price determiner any time soon.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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marcus_of_augustus
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April 07, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
 #7880

Derivatives are about to be unleashed on Bitcoin, so the problems gold has will become Bitcoin's. Yes it's becoming a big boy's game, and it'll be manipulated all the same.

The only difference is that investment must be saturated before it's fleeced. Bitcoin will have to go up a very long way until it's no longer the golden child of institutional giants.

I don't think the same games can be played as they are with PMs. Comex gold derivatives take advantage of the difficulty and expense of opting for physical delivery of gold contracts. There is no case to be made for the situation being the same for Bitcoin, and so if the Wall Street exchanges refuse or stall withdrawals, then they'll get tarred with the Gox moniker. Not to say that this won't happen, but I think the problems with Bitcoinica, Mt. Gox and Vicurex will be way too fresh in people's minds to permit recklessly large deposits on an exchange run in Wall Street (of all places, at this point in the history of that institution's reputation). Watch closely the language that gets used to describe their processes, if "withdrawal", "deposit" and "balance" are passed over for some other euphemisms, tread carefully, and deride loudly if necessary.

Any exchange that joins in with Second Market's 'hub and spoke' arrangement can expect to see some very guarded use of their deposit facilities. Sounds like a situation where mutual finger-pointing will replace meaningful responsibility if there was ever an issue.

I am fully anticipating many lolz when the 'wizards' of Wall St. get Goxxed in some way shape form when they show up in Bitcoinia and try their BS-finance crap around here.

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