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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807528 times)
cypherdoc
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June 17, 2014, 12:44:45 AM
 #8721


About 90% of the time when you point to some supposedly amazing metric you found (gold, bitcoin, hash rate, etc) I look at it and it's either ho-hum or actually the opposite of what you try to spout.  I guess a guy needs to look to see your startling observation within a few minutes or it will be gone.  Or you figure that nobody will even bother.  Ever heard the story about the little boy who cried 'wolf!'?  Look it up.



Anyone with half a brain would look at that graph and realize something extraordinary is going on. Exponential growth like that doesn't happen every day let alone over 5.5 years in anything including bacteria.

But then again, you're a gold bug. And an old one at that.
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June 17, 2014, 01:31:08 AM
 #8722


About 90% of the time when you point to some supposedly amazing metric you found (gold, bitcoin, hash rate, etc) I look at it and it's either ho-hum or actually the opposite of what you try to spout.  I guess a guy needs to look to see your startling observation within a few minutes or it will be gone.  Or you figure that nobody will even bother.  Ever heard the story about the little boy who cried 'wolf!'?  Look it up.


Anyone with half a brain would look at that graph and realize something extraordinary is going on. Exponential growth like that doesn't happen every day let alone over 5.5 years in anything including bacteria.

But then again, you're a gold bug. And an old one at that.

Anyone who knows what they are looking at in a chart of damn near anything looks for changes.  Exponential growth in hashing has been the norm for basically forever in Bitcoin-land.  The reasons for this are obvious to anyone who is paying attention at all and has some vague grasp of technology.  The graph you point at is interesting only in it's uniformity.

I've never heard you make the argument that everything will be fine because miners have free will and will switch (from a harmful pool.)  Frankly, I'm not sure you understand Bitcoin well enough to even make that argument from one perspective or the other.  Just in case you are, consider the situation where mining is not profitable (which, as you may or may not remember, happened to a lot of run-of-the-mill miners at the GPA/FPGA time frame.)  OTOH, if it's to much of a strain, or you don't think it will be helpful in your pump-it project, don't bother.


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June 17, 2014, 01:42:34 AM
 #8723

http://www.coindesk.com/30-billion-processor-digital-river-bitcoin-payment-option/

Can anybody say... TO DA milky way!  Grin Grin Grin

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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cypherdoc
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June 17, 2014, 01:45:34 AM
 #8724

I've never heard you make the argument that everything will be fine because miners have free will and will switch (from a harmful pool.)  Frankly, I'm not sure you understand Bitcoin well enough to even make that argument from one perspective or the other.  Just in case you are, consider the situation where mining is not profitable (which, as you may or may not remember, happened to a lot of run-of-the-mill miners at the GPA/FPGA time frame.)  OTOH, if it's to much of a strain, or you don't think it will be helpful in your pump-it project, don't bother.



said by the guy who doesn't understand how bitcoin addresses are constructed.

then you're having trouble listening too.  i've made that argument ad nauseum that individual miners can switch pools freely when their pool gets too big.

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June 17, 2014, 02:06:35 AM
 #8725

I've never heard you make the argument that everything will be fine because miners have free will and will switch (from a harmful pool.)  Frankly, I'm not sure you understand Bitcoin well enough to even make that argument from one perspective or the other.  Just in case you are, consider the situation where mining is not profitable (which, as you may or may not remember, happened to a lot of run-of-the-mill miners at the GPA/FPGA time frame.)  OTOH, if it's to much of a strain, or you don't think it will be helpful in your pump-it project, don't bother.


said by the guy who doesn't understand how bitcoin addresses are constructed.

then you're having trouble listening too.  i've made that argument ad nauseum that individual miners can switch pools freely when their pool gets too big.


Lemme help you out a bit more since you don't seem to be getting it:  And when they loose money because mining is not profitable except to those who have the right combination of the latest and most efficient chips and cheap power...?

Here's another thing that you will probably learn at some point, and from the looks of things probably to your despair.  The money to be made on Bitcoin will eventually not be made from either fees or block rewards.  (hint:  think Google.)  These people will happily mine at a loss if that's what it takes to tap into the business (and potentially other) intelligence coming out of the system.  Obviously that's conjecture on my part, but it's a bet I'm playing.  (It doesn't necessarily indicate that I'm selling out all my BTC of course.  At least not immediately.  But it certainly frames my expectations for the solution and it's competitors.)


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June 17, 2014, 02:38:19 AM
 #8726

I've never heard you make the argument that everything will be fine because miners have free will and will switch (from a harmful pool.)  Frankly, I'm not sure you understand Bitcoin well enough to even make that argument from one perspective or the other.  Just in case you are, consider the situation where mining is not profitable (which, as you may or may not remember, happened to a lot of run-of-the-mill miners at the GPA/FPGA time frame.)  OTOH, if it's to much of a strain, or you don't think it will be helpful in your pump-it project, don't bother.


said by the guy who doesn't understand how bitcoin addresses are constructed.

then you're having trouble listening too.  i've made that argument ad nauseum that individual miners can switch pools freely when their pool gets too big.


Lemme help you out a bit more since you don't seem to be getting it:  And when they loose money because mining is not profitable except to those who have the right combination of the latest and most efficient chips and cheap power...?

lets get one thing straight here.  you aren't coming from any position of enlightenment b/c you certainly aren't teaching anyone anything here.  you're expressing an opinion.

and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.

Quote

Here's another thing that you will probably learn at some point, and from the looks of things probably to your despair.  The money to be made on Bitcoin will eventually not be made from either fees or block rewards.  (hint:  think Google.)  These people will happily mine at a loss if that's what it takes to tap into the business (and potentially other) intelligence coming out of the system.  Obviously that's conjecture on my part, but it's a bet I'm playing.  (It doesn't necessarily indicate that I'm selling out all my BTC of course.  At least not immediately.  But it certainly frames my expectations for the solution and it's competitors.)



i'd welcome Google anyday.  b/c if they decide to mine, then so will Amazon, EBay, TigerDirect, and banks, etc.  That would be great for Bitcoin as the price will have gone thru the roof if that happens.  individuals could still probably mine in pools but they'd have to have access to cheap electricity and buy in early to new generation chips.  but even if the #'s didn't work out, the big boys will provide enough diversification and decentralization to keep things moving along smoothly.

you always love to sound bearish yet you cling to your coins.  this thread was made to torment gold bugs like you; i'm glad it's working.
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June 17, 2014, 06:07:08 AM
 #8727

I've never heard you make the argument that everything will be fine because miners have free will and will switch (from a harmful pool.)  Frankly, I'm not sure you understand Bitcoin well enough to even make that argument from one perspective or the other.  Just in case you are, consider the situation where mining is not profitable (which, as you may or may not remember, happened to a lot of run-of-the-mill miners at the GPA/FPGA time frame.)  OTOH, if it's to much of a strain, or you don't think it will be helpful in your pump-it project, don't bother.


said by the guy who doesn't understand how bitcoin addresses are constructed.

then you're having trouble listening too.  i've made that argument ad nauseum that individual miners can switch pools freely when their pool gets too big.


Lemme help you out a bit more since you don't seem to be getting it:  And when they loose money because mining is not profitable except to those who have the right combination of the latest and most efficient chips and cheap power...?

lets get one thing straight here.  you aren't coming from any position of enlightenment b/c you certainly aren't teaching anyone anything here.  you're expressing an opinion.

and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.

Quote

Here's another thing that you will probably learn at some point, and from the looks of things probably to your despair.  The money to be made on Bitcoin will eventually not be made from either fees or block rewards.  (hint:  think Google.)  These people will happily mine at a loss if that's what it takes to tap into the business (and potentially other) intelligence coming out of the system.  Obviously that's conjecture on my part, but it's a bet I'm playing.  (It doesn't necessarily indicate that I'm selling out all my BTC of course.  At least not immediately.  But it certainly frames my expectations for the solution and it's competitors.)



i'd welcome Google anyday.  b/c if they decide to mine, then so will Amazon, EBay, TigerDirect, and banks, etc.  That would be great for Bitcoin as the price will have gone thru the roof if that happens.  individuals could still probably mine in pools but they'd have to have access to cheap electricity and buy in early to new generation chips.  but even if the #'s didn't work out, the big boys will provide enough diversification and decentralization to keep things moving along smoothly.

you always love to sound bearish yet you cling to your coins.  this thread was made to torment gold bugs like you; i'm glad it's working.

Cypherdoc the troll

Has a nice ring to it.  Wink

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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

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LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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June 17, 2014, 06:37:32 AM
 #8728

...
and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.
...

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

I could simply buy a days worth of total mining production for the cost of a quasi-respectable mining set-up back when I was getting going (and we are more-or-less contemporaries if my memory serves.)  If I sunk all of my speculative funds into mining I could only get BTC at a relatively slow rate, and if the price went up, the rate would be even slower as other retards desperately joined in.  And tending to a mining cluster would quickly start to resemble work (and I was sick of doing that sort of work and wanted to take a break for a while.)  Since hodling and mining were both going to pay off only on a BTC price increase hodling made a hell of a lot more sense to me.


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June 17, 2014, 06:55:11 AM
 #8729

...
and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.
...

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

I could simply buy a days worth of total mining production for the cost of a quasi-respectable mining set-up back when I was getting going (and we are more-or-less contemporaries if my memory serves.)  If I sunk all of my speculative funds into mining I could only get BTC at a relatively slow rate, and if the price went up, the rate would be even slower as other retards desperately joined in.  And tending to a mining cluster would quickly start to resemble work (and I was sick of doing that sort of work and wanted to take a break for a while.)  Since hodling and mining were both going to pay off only on a BTC price increase hodling made a hell of a lot more sense to me.



I'll answer this one dimensional thinking tomorrow but in the meantime :

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
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June 17, 2014, 07:11:10 AM
 #8730


I'll answer this one dimensional thinking tomorrow but in the meantime :

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Half a year ago we were at parity.  Now BTC is half.  Usually one needs to get divorced in order to get screwed so badly.  But keep making an ass of yourself.  Fun for everyone!


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June 17, 2014, 07:31:15 AM
 #8731


I'll answer this one dimensional thinking tomorrow but in the meantime :

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Half a year ago we were at parity.  Now BTC is half.  Usually one needs to get divorced in order to get screwed so badly.  But keep making an ass of yourself.  Fun for everyone!


I feel like the only ass here who got screwed badly. At the end of the day we're just expressing ideas in the hope that someone will challenge them, in a way that is meaningful - backing those ideas with ego is not a valid change.

I just need to go back 18 months to know gold's collapsing and Bitcoin's up.

I'm the ass for biting at the gold bug hook, and making my own benchmark exit $10 bitcoin and enter $1900 gold.

 "Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP" is my only mantra untilled Bitcoin hits $10 again while gold supersedes $2000 per ounce.

It's not that it's backed by the claimed opposite it's backed by: insert the silverbox report here.

This isn't and didn't start as a 6 month race. It's a race I started late and gave gold a massive head start and for the record it started in March 2012.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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June 17, 2014, 08:41:53 AM
 #8732



Well I see the grand tradition is being upheld right here on bitcointalk ... a goldbug thread descends into a troll pissing contest.

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June 17, 2014, 02:37:08 PM
 #8733


I'll answer this one dimensional thinking tomorrow but in the meantime :

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Half a year ago we were at parity.  Now BTC is half.  Usually one needs to get divorced in order to get screwed so badly.  But keep making an ass of yourself.  Fun for everyone!


I feel like the only ass here who got screwed badly. At the end of the day we're just expressing ideas in the hope that someone will challenge them, in a way that is meaningful - backing those ideas with ego is not a valid change.

I just need to go back 18 months to know gold's collapsing and Bitcoin's up.

I'm the ass for biting at the gold bug hook, and making my own benchmark exit $10 bitcoin and enter $1900 gold.

 "Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP" is my only mantra untilled Bitcoin hits $10 again while gold supersedes $2000 per ounce.

It's not that it's backed by the claimed opposite it's backed by: insert the silverbox report here.

This isn't and didn't start as a 6 month race. It's a race I started late and gave gold a massive head start and for the record it started in March 2012.

Gold used to be way cheaper before the middle of 2000's, Gold&Bitcoin are likely to both appreciate in real terms as the USD and western financial system collapse

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June 17, 2014, 03:20:11 PM
 #8734

Gold used to be way cheaper before the middle of 2000's, Gold&Bitcoin are likely to both appreciate in real terms as the USD and western financial system collapse

Sure but my gold isn't going to make me rich it's a safety net (or insurance), and my Bitcoin have a long way to before they start crashing relative to gold. And give gold that is traded as a paper assets is a long con and real gold is not transportable over fiber optics I'd concluded it's potential store of wealth is over.

Money is memory and clay tables and paper are out and verified P2P distributed digital memory is in.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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June 17, 2014, 04:45:21 PM
 #8735

...
and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.
...

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

I could simply buy a days worth of total mining production for the cost of a quasi-respectable mining set-up back when I was getting going (and we are more-or-less contemporaries if my memory serves.)  If I sunk all of my speculative funds into mining I could only get BTC at a relatively slow rate, and if the price went up, the rate would be even slower as other retards desperately joined in.  And tending to a mining cluster would quickly start to resemble work (and I was sick of doing that sort of work and wanted to take a break for a while.)  Since hodling and mining were both going to pay off only on a BTC price increase hodling made a hell of a lot more sense to me.



i agree that buying BTC straight up is the fastest way to accumulate and that is precisely what i did back in 2011.  but not everyone has the resources or extra cash lying around to do that.  don't forget many miners are college kids or workers in places where they get free electricity.  also, there are plenty of professionals mining in places round the world where electricity is cheap and plentiful.  those are ideal places to mine.  

mining represents diversification.  you forget that miners are building out the infrastructure that is meant to replace the banking system.  its very attractive to participate in that process if you have the right conditions.  i said before, i mine to understand the psychology behind the miner, but its become more than that.  with time, i have realized that  i am one of them.  what you fail to understand, as an unprincipled, amoral, opportunistic, socialist boomer that you are, is that there is more to Bitcoin mining than just making a fast buck.  this is a Movement.  the straight up exponential rise in the hashrate is a reflection of pent up frustration with the current fiat banking system. tech savvy entrepreneurs are pouring millions into a new system meant to replace the banks.  ppl like that concept and want to help in whatever way they can besides just buying BTC.  it's an investment in knowledge accumulation as well.  if i can understand what it takes to be a successful miner, perhaps one day when the system stabilizes after having become widespread, i can be a permanent part of a an infrastructure with more certainty.  mining is a skill set that is necessary to truly understand Bitcoin.  i also see this enthusiasm in the threads of ppl wanting to set up full nodes.  they are willing to contribute freely to increase the network robustness even though there is no immediate return.  but deep down they know that if they can help perpetuate the network they will profit when the price eventually rises again.

watching videos of the early gpu miners back in 2011 made my jaw drop.  i could not believe the enthusiasm behind these guys in their garages and basements.  and how many there were.  i knew i needed to get involved to experience what it was they were feeling. turns out only one thing drives ppl like that, and that is money.  not stocks, not bonds, not gold, not assurance contracts, not smart contracts, not anything except liquid money.  this is why i'm beginning to think that the blockchain will only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money. nothing may be able to incentivize a POW blockchain dependent on mining, like BTC has.  the only chance those other assets have is to link themselves to the Bitcoin network, security wise.  or else they're doomed to hacks or centralized intervention. but i'm not sure about this concept yet and that is besides the point.  

as miners, we're like rabid dogs; our muscles are bulging and tense, our pupils are dilated, the blood vessels on the whites of our eyes are engorged, we have saliva running out the sides of our mouths, and we're straining at the end of a leash trying to get our paws on BTC.  you can feel the intensity and competitiveness when you go to the Hardware forum.  when i first get a new batch of miners i work days, nights, and weekends to get them up and running and fine tuned to be as efficient as possible.  and this is btwn my day job responsibilities.  and that is after all the months of research in the Hardware forum in preparation for their arrival.  we are an interesting bunch that's for sure.  but it's fun to be an admin.  to gain control over your machines, connect them up to a global network and watch the software run it's magic. it's stimulating to see my machines hook up to 40, 50, or 100 other machines around the globe all the while communicating information seamlessly. i love consulting with other miners with my questions.  mostly, we're a collegial bunch trying to help each other out. it's strategic, it's challenging, and there's risk.  for a long while i was a solo miner and it's hard to describe hitting a full block reward. it's a beautiful sight to watch the stratum protocol hash away line by line trying to hit the target.  you can see the equitability in a system based on randomness right there on your screen.  Slush even hid away some cute messages for those hashes that exceed a certain difficulty just to keep us amused. there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; not to mention that they're worth a crapload of money.  i like tinkering, i like doing the math, i like learning linux, and i like the work (unlike you) to make it all happen.  guys like me will ensure that the network never fails. and there are legions of us.  i feel i'm contributing to a new innovative opt-out system that can change the world.

these are the intangible factors that go into the power of mining that only true miners understand and that will always befuddle peabrains like you.
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June 17, 2014, 04:57:33 PM
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...
and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.
...

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

I could simply buy a days worth of total mining production for the cost of a quasi-respectable mining set-up back when I was getting going (and we are more-or-less contemporaries if my memory serves.)  If I sunk all of my speculative funds into mining I could only get BTC at a relatively slow rate, and if the price went up, the rate would be even slower as other retards desperately joined in.  And tending to a mining cluster would quickly start to resemble work (and I was sick of doing that sort of work and wanted to take a break for a while.)  Since hodling and mining were both going to pay off only on a BTC price increase hodling made a hell of a lot more sense to me.



i agree that buying BTC straight up is the fastest way to accumulate and that is precisely what i did back in 2011.  but not everyone has the resources or extra cash lying around to do that.  don't forget many miners are college kids or workers in places where they get free electricity.  also, there are plenty of professionals mining in places round the world where electricity is cheap and plentiful.  those are ideal places to mine.  

mining represents diversification.  you forget that miners are building out the infrastructure that is meant to replace the banking system.  its very attractive to participate in that process if you have the right conditions.  i said before, i mine to understand the psychology behind the miner, but its become more than that.  with time, i have realized that  i am one of them.  what you fail to understand, as an unprincipled, amoral, opportunistic, socialist boomer that you are, is that there is more to Bitcoin mining than just making a fast buck.  this is a Movement.  the straight up exponential rise in the hashrate is a reflection of pent up frustration with the current fiat banking system. tech savvy entrepreneurs are pouring millions into a new system meant to replace the banks.  ppl like that concept and want to help in whatever way they can besides just buying BTC.  it's an investment in knowledge accumulation as well.  if i can understand what it takes to be a successful miner, perhaps one day when the system stabilizes after having become widespread, i can be a permanent part of a an infrastructure with more certainty.  mining is a skill set that is necessary to truly understand Bitcoin.  i also see this enthusiasm in the threads of ppl wanting to set up full nodes.  they are willing to contribute freely to increase the network robustness even though there is no immediate return.  but deep down they know that if they can help perpetuate the network they will profit when the price eventually rises again.

watching videos of the early gpu miners back in 2011 made my jaw drop.  i could not believe the enthusiasm behind these guys in their garages and basements.  and how many there were.  i knew i needed to get involved to experience what it was they were feeling. turns out only one thing drives ppl like that, and that is money.  not stocks, not bonds, not gold, not assurance contracts, not smart contracts, not anything except liquid money.  this is why i'm beginning to think that the blockchain will only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money. nothing may be able to incentivize a POW blockchain dependent on mining like BTC.  the only chance those other assets have is to link themselves to the Bitcoin network, security wise.  or else they're doomed to hacks. but i'm not sure about this concept yet and that is besides the point.  

as miners, we're like rabid dogs; our muscles are bulging and tense, our pupils are dilated, the blood vessels on the whites of our eyes are engorged, we have saliva running out the sides of our mouths, and we're straining at the end of a leash trying to accumulate BTC.  you can feel the intensity and competitiveness when you go to the Hardware forum.  when i first get a new batch of miners i work days, nights, and weekends to get them up and running and fine tuned to get them as efficient as possible.  and this is btwn my day job responsibilities.  and that is before all the months of research in the Hardware forum in preparation for their arrival.  we are an interesting bunch that's for sure.  but it's fun to be an admin.  to gain control over your machines, connect them up to a global network and watch the software run it's magic. it's stimulating to see my machines hook up to 40, 50, or 100 other machines around the globe all the while communicating information seamlessly. i love consulting with other miners with my questions.  mostly, we're a collegial bunch trying to help each other out. it's strategic, it's challenging, and there's risk.  for a long while i was a solo miner and it's hard to describe hitting a full block reward. it's a beautiful sight to watch the stratum protocol hash away line by line trying to hit the target.  Slush even hid away some cute messages for those hashes that exceed a certain difficulty just to keep us amused. there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; not to mention that they're worth a crapload of money.  i like tinkering, i like doing the math, i like learning linux, and i like the work (unlike you) to make it all happen.  guys like me will ensure that the network never fails. and there are legions of us.  i feel i'm contributing to a new innovative opt-out system that can change the world.

these are the intangible factors that go into the power of mining that only true miners understand and that will always befuddle peabrains like you.
I.bought it up until the last line. I've been playing guitar for 45 years and peabrains like you will never understand the love that I share with that. But I would never belittle someone just because they are inferior.
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June 17, 2014, 06:19:33 PM
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i agree that buying BTC straight up is the fastest way to accumulate and that is precisely what i did back in 2011.  but not everyone has the resources or extra cash lying around to do that.  don't forget many miners are college kids or workers in places where they get free electricity.

Ya, it's amazing how many people in Bitcoinland have no compunction about theft.

also, there are plenty of professionals mining in places round the world where electricity is cheap and plentiful.  those are ideal places to mine.  

mining represents diversification.  you forget that miners are building out the infrastructure that is meant to replace the banking system.  its very attractive to participate in that process if you have the right conditions.  i said before, i mine to understand the psychology behind the miner, but its become more than that.  with time, i have realized that  i am one of them.  what you fail to understand, as an unprincipled, amoral, opportunistic, socialist boomer that you are, is that there is more to Bitcoin mining than just making a fast buck.  this is a Movement.  the straight up exponential rise in the hashrate is a reflection of pent up frustration with the current fiat banking system. tech savvy entrepreneurs are pouring millions into a new system meant to replace the banks.  ppl like that concept and want to help in whatever way they can besides just buying BTC.  it's an investment in knowledge accumulation as well.  if i can understand what it takes to be a successful miner, perhaps one day when the system stabilizes after having become widespread, i can be a permanent part of a an infrastructure with more certainty.  mining is a skill set that is necessary to truly understand Bitcoin.  i also see this enthusiasm in the threads of ppl wanting to set up full nodes.  they are willing to contribute freely to increase the network robustness even though there is no immediate return.  but deep down they know that if they can help perpetuate the network they will profit when the price eventually rises again.

watching videos of the early gpu miners back in 2011 made my jaw drop.  i could not believe the enthusiasm behind these guys in their garages and basements.  and how many there were.  i knew i needed to get involved to experience what it was they were feeling. turns out only one thing drives ppl like that, and that is money.  not stocks, not bonds, not gold, not assurance contracts, not smart contracts, not anything except liquid money.  this is why i'm beginning to think that the blockchain will only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money. nothing may be able to incentivize a POW blockchain dependent on mining, like BTC has.  the only chance those other assets have is to link themselves to the Bitcoin network, security wise.  or else they're doomed to hacks or centralized intervention. but i'm not sure about this concept yet and that is besides the point.  

as miners, we're like rabid dogs; our muscles are bulging and tense, our pupils are dilated, the blood vessels on the whites of our eyes are engorged, we have saliva running out the sides of our mouths, and we're straining at the end of a leash trying to get our paws on BTC.

OMG.  Perfect:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmB2Qb0qSNc

you can feel the intensity and competitiveness when you go to the Hardware forum.  when i first get a new batch of miners i work days, nights, and weekends to get them up and running and fine tuned to get them as efficient as possible.  and this is btwn my day job responsibilities.  and that is before all the months of research in the Hardware forum in preparation for their arrival.  we are an interesting bunch that's for sure.  but it's fun to be an admin.  to gain control over your machines, connect them up to a global network and watch the software run it's magic. it's stimulating to see my machines hook up to 40, 50, or 100 other machines around the globe all the while communicating information seamlessly. i love consulting with other miners with my questions.  mostly, we're a collegial bunch trying to help each other out. it's strategic, it's challenging, and there's risk.  for a long while i was a solo miner and it's hard to describe hitting a full block reward. it's a beautiful sight to watch the stratum protocol hash away line by line trying to hit the target.  you can see the equitability in a system based on randomness.  Slush even hid away some cute messages for those hashes that exceed a certain difficulty just to keep us amused. there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; not to mention that they're worth a crapload of money.  i like tinkering, i like doing the math, i like learning linux, and i like the work (unlike you) to make it all happen.  guys like me will ensure that the network never fails. and there are legions of us.  i feel i'm contributing to a new innovative opt-out system that can change the world.

these are the intangible factors that go into the power of mining that only true miners understand and that will always befuddle peabrains like you.

Well, you have a point that simpletons are easily amused and can be counted on as useful idiots at a systems design level.  Go down to the nearest carnival and note the queue forming for the opportunity to possibly win a $0.50 trinket for a $1 ticket.

Satoshi could have prolonged the peer-2-peer nature of the solution by leveraging the same behavior at the transmission level also.  No idea why he didn't.  It was such a no-brainer to me that for a long time I thought he did.  I thought I read it somewhere, but was either inventing it in my mind or it's been sucked pretty deeply into the memory hole.

Seeing you using the argument of ruthless competition and benign public interest in the same scrambled screed is highly reminiscent something I've read before somewhere.  Where was that?  Oh ya, here it is.

My main exposure to miners comes from this forum and the BFL threads which I ended up on.  They certainly changed Josh and Sonny's world.  It's a start I guess.


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June 17, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
 #8738

Gold used to be way cheaper before the middle of 2000's, Gold&Bitcoin are likely to both appreciate in real terms as the USD and western financial system collapse

Sure but my gold isn't going to make me rich it's a safety net (or insurance), and my Bitcoin have a long way to before they start crashing relative to gold. And give gold that is traded as a paper assets is a long con and real gold is not transportable over fiber optics I'd concluded it's potential store of wealth is over.

Money is memory and clay tables and paper are out and verified P2P distributed digital memory is in.

If you have 100,000 in 2014 USD it may become 200,000 in 2014 USD in 5years where the fiat may become 70,000 in 2014 USD so the difference is huge

Gold has been a store of value for thousands of years, I don't think you understand the value of that; the fact that you and maybe 50% of the world population think it shouldn't be a store of wealth anymore is irrelevant; 90% of the world population think facebook shouldn't be valued 1Billion but it is valued 100Billions; in addition, Gold has physical properties that grant it a value for the years to come

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June 17, 2014, 07:22:52 PM
 #8739



Well I see the grand tradition is being upheld right here on bitcointalk ... a goldbug thread descends into a troll pissing contest.

where you been, boy?

it used to be much worse than this going back to the beginning of this thread.  it was filled with goldbug trolls.

now we just have... tvbcof.
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June 17, 2014, 07:27:27 PM
 #8740



Well I see the grand tradition is being upheld right here on bitcointalk ... a goldbug thread descends into a troll pissing contest.

where you been, boy?

it used to be much worse than this going back to the beginning of this thread.  it was filled with goldbug trolls.

now we just have... tvbcof.

I rarely correct someone when they call me a 'gold bug' just as I rarely do when someone calls me a 'communist'.  I kind of get a kick out of it to be honest.

In actual fact I've not bought any gold since probably back in the 2007-ish timeframe.  Same with silver.  I switched over to picking up a bit of property after the housing bubble popped.  And, of course, some Bitcoin back in 2011 as a speculative play (which is unusual for me but to good an opportunity to pass up.)  Most likely I'll be a legitimate 'gold bug' again if/when Bitcoin does another significant leg up, but I've not done it yet since my last capitalization went toward taxes and property development.  And if PM's have a leg up corresponding to Bitcoin's, I'll probably look for other opportunities.

I harbor some negative feelings about both gold and Bitcoin.  To me they are pretty close to the same thing.  In a different but similar way I have very little affection for real estate speculation or milking the less fortunate for rent.  In an ideal society people could realistically afford to buy a house if they wished to and applied a little diligence to the effort.  At this point most of the fruits of their labor go directly into the coffers of the investor class.  That said, I'm not going to reject these types of easy-money opportunities out of a philosophical distaste which I cannot do much about anyway.  I'll vote for my conscience (and make forum posts similarly) but I'll invest for the benefit of my wallet.


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