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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803413 times)
marcus_of_augustus
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April 09, 2014, 11:08:57 AM
 #7941

Is there some other thread where this inane prattling about altcoins can go to?  This thread is for inane prattling about gold and bitcoin.  Smiley
Smiley

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Carlton Banks
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April 09, 2014, 12:38:54 PM
 #7942

I believe my proposal works for any possible alt coin.  My proposal is simply a way to create a distribution of wealth equal to that of bitcoin in any new alt coin.

I think this is a fantastic proposal and would even be willing to help with the development effort. I look forward to future threads on this topic and will jump in as time allows.

Awesome.  I think we realized something important today. 

Hmmm. How could we stop a corporate-backed alt usurping bitcoin in the same way? While bitcoin is used by less than 50% of the world's population, the majority might prefer to align with the clonecoin, so that they get to keep their old wealth. I can see that it would be difficult to prove that the balances are fairly apportioned, as accounts are not public information, and also that the rich and influential could easily see this as a power grab opportunity. That could still pose a real dilemma in a situation where bitcoin and bitcoin-clone seem certain to become dominant as currency in a short period of time.

Vires in numeris
cypherdoc
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April 09, 2014, 02:06:27 PM
 #7943

I believe my proposal works for any possible alt coin.  My proposal is simply a way to create a distribution of wealth equal to that of bitcoin in any new alt coin.

I think this is a fantastic proposal and would even be willing to help with the development effort. I look forward to future threads on this topic and will jump in as time allows.

Awesome.  I think we realized something important today.  

Hmmm. How could we stop a corporate-backed alt usurping bitcoin in the same way? While bitcoin is used by less than 50% of the world's population, the majority might prefer to align with the clonecoin, so that they get to keep their old wealth. I can see that it would be difficult to prove that the balances are fairly apportioned, as accounts are not public information, and also that the rich and influential could easily see this as a power grab opportunity. That could still pose a real dilemma in a situation where bitcoin and bitcoin-clone seem certain to become dominant as currency in a short period of time.

b/c a corp backed Bitcoin clone would not give them the means to benefit from inflation like they currently do, nevermind the lack of current stake in the blockchain.
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April 09, 2014, 02:16:55 PM
 #7944

The NXT guys effectively prevented clone-takeover by releasing binaries first and only older versions of source-code. What is æthereum going to do to prevent such counter-attack?

The proof-of-concept Ethereum code is already available.  And æthereum will intentionally be released after Ethereum. Why buy ether when you will be awarded æther a month or so later for free?

I don't think an alt-coin can fight against my proposed defence.  If you never release source code, it's difficult to establish trust and credibility.  If you do release source code, you open yourself up to being eaten by the bitcoin blockchain.  Besides, it is difficult to keep secrets and there will always defectors.  Information wants to be spread.  

My premise is that any alt coin will enjoy greater success if you freely distribute coins as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain, when compared to any other distribution method.  If this premise is true, then any promising alt coin can be made more promising by re-releasing it using bitcoin's unspent outputs to determine initial ownership of coins.  

This would be a good thing for the community including innovative alt coin developers I believe.

next stop, Mastercoin.  then Bitshares.
sidhujag
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April 09, 2014, 03:58:59 PM
 #7945

Bitshares tried to do same thing but with protoshares... You can fork that one and do the same.. its a great idea and one that the merged mined coins hoped woukd happen one day.. The merged mine coins will be the only ones standing and out of those the ones that provide some kind of inherent utility that bitcoin doesnt have by design.

Anyone doing any sort of IPO or imaginary distribution schemes will be seen as scams because the well known distribution scheme would be to use bitcoin snapshots... Such a simple idea that is easy to do and puts all alt coins on an equal platform.. Letting Darwin do its thing.
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April 09, 2014, 04:26:12 PM
 #7946

The NXT guys effectively prevented clone-takeover by releasing binaries first and only older versions of source-code. What is æthereum going to do to prevent such counter-attack?

The proof-of-concept Ethereum code is already available.  And æthereum will intentionally be released after Ethereum. Why buy ether when you will be awarded æther a month or so later for free?

I don't think an alt-coin can fight against my proposed defence.  If you never release source code, it's difficult to establish trust and credibility.  If you do release source code, you open yourself up to being eaten by the bitcoin blockchain.  Besides, it is difficult to keep secrets and there will always defectors.  Information wants to be spread.  

My premise is that any alt coin will enjoy greater success if you freely distribute coins as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain, when compared to any other distribution method.  If this premise is true, then any promising alt coin can be made more promising by re-releasing it using bitcoin's unspent outputs to determine initial ownership of coins.  

This would be a good thing for the community including innovative alt coin developers I believe.

The devs of the new coin could use the bitcoin blockchain as you describe but give themselves half of the unmoved 2009 coins (satoshi coins).  Additionally, adding a limit-in-the-blockchain for the spending of these coins to no more than 10% of them per year would show that the devs are in it for the long haul, not making a scam coin.  This would perhaps fairly compensate the new devs for their effort, while still acknowledging SN's original contribution.  But I believe it also reasonably reduces SN's stake in the new coin -- commensurate with his lack of ongoing contribution to the digital currency space.   By using some fraction of the existing count of early coins it kind of simulates the first-mover mining advantage that the new coin devs should have received.  This allows the new coin to use the strongest POW network (SHA-256 ASICs) but still give the devs "early" coin.

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April 09, 2014, 06:24:26 PM
 #7947

Awesome.  I think we realized something important today.  

Hmmm. How could we stop a corporate-backed alt usurping bitcoin in the same way? While bitcoin is used by less than 50% of the world's population, the majority might prefer to align with the clonecoin, so that they get to keep their old wealth. I can see that it would be difficult to prove that the balances are fairly apportioned, as accounts are not public information, and also that the rich and influential could easily see this as a power grab opportunity. That could still pose a real dilemma in a situation where bitcoin and bitcoin-clone seem certain to become dominant as currency in a short period of time.

b/c a corp backed Bitcoin clone would not give them the means to benefit from inflation like they currently do, nevermind the lack of current stake in the blockchain.

Also, the top-heavy distribution of wealth works against such a plan, less than 50% of people own alot less than 50% of money in the incumbent system. Still, it suggests there are more ways to plan against new monetary systems than the more direct attacks we have seen. But if a new monetary system is developed that represents a genuine paradigm advance, then these things will, by definition, be countered in that successful design.

Vires in numeris
Peter R
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April 10, 2014, 01:28:35 AM
 #7948

As promised, I've posted a "Request for Comments" of æthereum in the alt-coin section:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563925.0

And I've posted a description of the bitcoin-blockchain-based coin distribution bootstrapping scheme to Bitcoin Discussion:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

We can migrate discussion related to these topics to these two new threads. 

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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April 10, 2014, 05:47:18 PM
 #7949

Gold UP, bitcoin tanking like a bitch.

As always throughout history, gold has the last laugh.
tvbcof
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April 10, 2014, 08:12:42 PM
 #7950

Gold UP, bitcoin tanking like a bitch.

As always throughout history, gold has the last laugh.

Not in my case.

I've been one of the more vocal on this board about the importance of hanging on to a hoard of PMs, but Bitcoin will always have 'the last laugh'.  This because I sold enough BTC to equal a fair fraction of my gold holdings and used the fiat immediately for property and other real-world goodies that I enjoy (and pay my taxes to boot.)  Thus, no matter what happens to Bitcoin from here forward it will always have been a vastly more financially powerful instrument than PM's...absent a complete mad-max event resulting in the loss of my property at least.

I continue to hold a significant hoard of Bitcoin, and at this point I feel that it is more likely than ever to pay off more handsomely than PM's ever will.  The caveat is that from day one I never really expected Bitcoin to survive and produce the payout that I required of it.  I hoped for it of course (else I would not have taken the risk), but always considered it low probability.


cypherdoc
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April 10, 2014, 08:41:32 PM
 #7951

meanwhile, the stock market volatility is spiking.

where they gonna flee?
molecular
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April 11, 2014, 06:52:49 AM
 #7952

Gold UP, bitcoin tanking like a bitch.

As always throughout history, gold has the last laugh.

and now time ends?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
cypherdoc
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April 11, 2014, 09:28:55 AM
 #7953

Gold UP, bitcoin tanking like a bitch.

As always throughout history, gold has the last laugh.

You are going to be sorely disappointed.

Just wait.
cypherdoc
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April 11, 2014, 04:08:55 PM
 #7954

wachtwoord
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April 11, 2014, 04:16:33 PM
 #7955

Brilliant comeback Cyberdoc  Grin

cypherdoc
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April 11, 2014, 05:16:57 PM
 #7956

silver back under 20 again.

that's not good.

neither is Goldcorp breaking to lower lows:

cypherdoc
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April 11, 2014, 05:35:38 PM
 #7957

why the hell is the stock market SO volatile?  they promised us:

molecular
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April 11, 2014, 05:54:36 PM
 #7958



for additional "perspective", one could overlay btc price.

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cypherdoc
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April 11, 2014, 06:04:01 PM
 #7959



for additional "perspective", one could overlay btc price.

or do an Update.

zerg.
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April 11, 2014, 10:22:13 PM
 #7960

3D printing to give gold the final blow?
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