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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807041 times)
ErisDiscordia
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Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos


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June 02, 2014, 07:45:57 AM
 #8521

Economists on the other hand works for institutions that are largely government-funded, and that means that money flows in regardless of the quality of their work (and that's an understatement).
It's not a matter of quality as it is a matter of not understanding the actual job of economists.

The job of economist is to produce convincing ex post facto justifications for government policies. This is what they get paid for, and that's what they do.

The public's incorrect assumption that their job has anything to do with objective truth makes their job easier, so it's not a mistake they are interested in correcting.

Once upon a time there was a strain of thinking in economics which thought of the job of an economist to be just an observer of the complex social phenomenon we call "economy" while trying to figure out if there are any regularities. That line of thinking is all but dead today, killed by Keynesians insisting that economists need to centrally plan and control the economy.


I think these conclusions are a bit unfair. I have an econ degree from a top school, so I'm one counterexample at the very least. Further, I'd argue that many of my peers were mainly attracted to the elegance of the math and really believe that monetary and fiscal policy can optimally tune an economy for the betterment of all.

And to the extent that their assumptions and inputs are right, their conclusions are indeed right. What I think they miss is two-fold:
1) The models cannot possibly incorporate all variables. Economics tries to model the sum of human interaction. That's literally a chaotic system. Such modeling work great until all of a sudden it doesn't work at all.
2) The human element. Political incentives, individuals' career and legacy incentives, etc, are extremely dangerous motivators if you've allowed a system to exist whereby a small number of people have tremendous control over key variables. Unfortunately that's what we have, and it's proving to be a problem. A fairly obvious problem if you take a high-level long-term view and have some appreciation for the muddiness of it all, but that doesn't fit elegantly with the pretty equations economists love.


tl;dr: Most of them really do mean well. But what's that saying about a certain road and good intentions?


Look, I went to study economics at a university as well. After a couple of semesters (more of them than I'd care to admit...) I had to quit because the bullshit they were teaching there was just too infuriating. I could feel myself growing dumber at that school.

Where I am from a degree, ANY degree, is the holy grail of the generation equivalent to the Baby Boomers in the US. A degree, because that is supposed to guarantee you a "secure job". This mentality is much worse in the countries which used to be to the east of the iron curtain, than in those to the west - there people have generations long memories of people making it through entrepreneurship and hard/clever work with or without a degree.

Anyway, most people studying at that school were there for one reason only: they wanted a degree and this was supposed to be one of the easiest schools to finish and get one. And it's true, it was easy. I was there for the reason that I am actually interested in economics. But all their microeconomic modelling of demand and supply functions and macroeconomic keynesian statist propaganda was just too ridiculous for me so I figured I'd learn more on my own and quit.

I went to work in financial consulting and by Eris I swear the last people to get any sort of concept I explained to them were people with a degree in economics. Closely followed by lawyers and psychologists. What they thought they knew just interfered too heavily with what was being explained.

George Carlin knew that the state sponsored school system is all about creating obedient workers, interchangeable and redundant parts of a machine. In few areas of study is this more painfully obvious than in economics.

I am ranting about this because I feel sad about all the bright minds I have seen corrupted and turned into humorless zombies at that school Sad

EDIT: about the well-meaning economists: I place such individuals a step above the pragmatic cheat/thief and below the full blown sociopath on a scale of destructiveness in public functions.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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El Cabron
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June 02, 2014, 10:43:38 AM
 #8522

Gold Collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Is it intentional that you say so always when the daily charts say the opposite?

I have noticed this too. He might be looking at 5 min charts? Clearly not 3 month or even 6 month charts.


Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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June 02, 2014, 01:27:41 PM
 #8523

its all good id rather trade btc all day then pad the pockets of crims like JPM which make the PMs market
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June 02, 2014, 04:09:40 PM
 #8524

http://www.kitco.com/finance/bitcoin/

Not sure if old news, but this seems like a big deal.  Kitco has been around since the 70's.

Also, did anyone notice on the CNY page/tab that at the bottom, btcc is listed along with bter and btc38, but no OKCoin or Huobi?
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June 02, 2014, 04:12:03 PM
 #8525

http://www.kitco.com/finance/bitcoin/

Not sure if old news, but this seems like a big deal.  Kitco has been around since the 70's.
...


Yeah, Kitco added bitcoin a couple months ago. Just one more point of adoption/infrastructure-build-out that was happening while everyone was freaking out about China/Gox/Whatever.


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
zeetubes
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June 02, 2014, 04:28:54 PM
 #8526

its all good id rather trade btc all day then pad the pockets of crims like JPM which make the PMs market

+1 on that. But at the same time, for a cool $50B or so, the Fed aka JPM could easily buy out the whole existing BTC market a la Hunt Bros and then do what they want with it. The Fed prints more than that every week in order to keep the various markets afloat.
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June 02, 2014, 04:41:38 PM
 #8527

its all good id rather trade btc all day then pad the pockets of crims like JPM which make the PMs market

...for a cool $50B or so.... The Fed prints more than that every week in order to keep the various markets afloat.


No, they print a mere $45B per month.

For now.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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June 02, 2014, 04:59:37 PM
 #8528

its all good id rather trade btc all day then pad the pockets of crims like JPM which make the PMs market

+1 on that. But at the same time, for a cool $50B or so, the Fed aka JPM could easily buy out the whole existing BTC market a la Hunt Bros and then do what they want with it. The Fed prints more than that every week in order to keep the various markets afloat.

It would be cheaper to destroy the network. Go to the places where manufacturer the mining chips (Taiwan etc) and get a great deal to get 51% of the network.
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June 02, 2014, 05:23:44 PM
 #8529

its all good id rather trade btc all day then pad the pockets of crims like JPM which make the PMs market

...for a cool $50B or so.... The Fed prints more than that every week in order to keep the various markets afloat.


No, they print a mere $45B per month.

For now.

I think if you look at the purchases they make that aren't that well advertised, we're probably both underestimating.
conspirosphere.tk
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Revolution will be decentralized


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June 02, 2014, 05:32:37 PM
 #8530

It would be cheaper to destroy the network. Go to the places where manufacturer the mining chips (Taiwan etc) and get a great deal to get 51% of the network.

it could be even cheaper to threaten the owners of the 2-3 biggest pools of being thrown out of a window if they do not comply to pwn the network.

Melbustus
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June 02, 2014, 05:42:57 PM
 #8531

It would be cheaper to destroy the network. Go to the places where manufacturer the mining chips (Taiwan etc) and get a great deal to get 51% of the network.

it could be even cheaper to threaten the owners of the 2-3 biggest pools of being thrown out of a window if they do not comply to pwn the network.


So the pools would 51% and fork the network to double-spend a few coins, everyone would shutdown bitcoin payments for a few hours (as happened during the March 2013 fork), and the individuals that make up the affected pools would quickly point their miners elsewhere. p2pool would probably gain a huge share of that.

While it be a severe short/medium term blow to confidence in bitcoin, it wouldn't kill it, and would ultimately make the network stronger since people would be jumping to more distributed mining solutions like p2pool.

I think the pool attack concerns are largely blown out of proportion. Killing bitcoin really requires successfully attacking the crypto.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
cypherdoc
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June 02, 2014, 07:01:51 PM
 #8532

see, you can't get away from it:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000280280&play=1

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.
Melbustus
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June 02, 2014, 08:37:23 PM
 #8533

see, you can't get away from it:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000280280&play=1

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.


Love it.

Note how they still feel like that have to maintain the skeptical face and skeptical chuckles at the end... It's still very early.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
hdbuck
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June 02, 2014, 08:52:26 PM
 #8534

so lots of cnbc viewers asking about bitcoin and gold lately uh? ^^
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June 02, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
 #8535

Love the chuckles haha... the feeble minded will always look on things they cannot comprehend ignorantly.. until it slaps them in the face and say told you so!
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June 02, 2014, 10:16:37 PM
 #8536

its all good id rather trade btc all day then pad the pockets of crims like JPM which make the PMs market

+1 on that. But at the same time, for a cool $50B or so, the Fed aka JPM could easily buy out the whole existing BTC market a la Hunt Bros and then do what they want with it. The Fed prints more than that every week in order to keep the various markets afloat.

It wouldn't matter... that $50b will be used to buy btc up to say $100k each and then who would they sell to? That's a losing proposition. Also think about the new bitcoins to be mined... the cost of mining would be very low compared to the reward of selling bitcoin so it would probably mean that if they wanted to corner the market they would simply 51% the network or just do mining and also hope that the price rises as they will gain profit. THe longer you think about it the more it seems like we are on the same side even though bitcoin is pretty much their enemy.
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LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


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June 03, 2014, 12:42:43 AM
 #8537

BITCOIN ERECT (UP) Grin Grin Grin

To da moon!

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smoothie
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June 03, 2014, 12:53:18 AM
 #8538

see, you can't get away from it:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000280280&play=1

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.

lol they will come around once BTC > $10,000 each

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bitrider
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June 03, 2014, 03:06:50 AM
 #8539

LOL. Very entertaining. Yes, they are the ultimate followers. Don't expect wisdom or prescience from TV news heads. They have no idea what is really going on. But the fact that we are on CNBC and Bloomberg at all is still a little amazing to me.  Grin
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June 03, 2014, 04:28:18 AM
 #8540

LOL. Very entertaining. Yes, they are the ultimate followers. Don't expect wisdom or prescience from TV news heads. They have no idea what is really going on. But the fact that we are on CNBC and Bloomberg at all is still a little amazing to me.  Grin

Better than just followers they are the ultimate doubters, the wall of worriers, they will be with us the whole way up.

Watch them, since they are the best indicators for sentiment.

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