Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2016, 10:36:41 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 [374] 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805727 times)
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 11:59:34 AM
 #7461



No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

You did not ask me, but I want to answer. I would assume you are 25ish and very new to investing in Gold. Saw some gold bug forums and some youtube videos.

Gold has been like this for a long time. Gold in its history has almost always been heavily manipulated and sometimes even banned. This manipulation could go on for another 100 years but with almost no effort 5 to 10 years.

One has to admit that the gold-bug propaganda ("the west is running out of physical, when that happens, the game is over and gold multiplies in value") is getting more convincing as of late, though. I considered it a general confirmation of that theory
when germany was basically told to fuck off when they asked for some of their gold back. If that doesn't prove the lack of gold in the US, what does? Add to that the recent leaving of the London gold fix by Deutsche Bank and the affirmation by Bafin (german banking/finance oversight authority) that gold price manipulation is a reality and is "worse than the libor manipulation". The exposing of the gold manipulation also seems to go more mainstream these days.

I think it's indeed possible the "jig is up" soon and I wouldn't be surprised.

On the other hand I agree with Goat: gold-bugs have been saying that this system will fail "very soon" for quite a long time now and it's certainly conceivable "the operators" might drag this thing down the road for quite a bit longer. These dudes are smart and have means at their disposal.

I agree ignoring crypto is likely very stupid. It's still probably a one in a lifetime chance for most people.


Ok, now does sounds a lot better. We are on the same page.
1481150201
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481150201

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481150201
Reply with quote  #2

1481150201
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 12:21:26 PM
 #7462

I really don't have the feeling that without effort this could go on for another five years: Look at Comex inventories, German gold repatriation, Chinese imports, etc, etc... It's very hard for me to figure how the manipulation could even continue beyond 2014 - but who knows which last minute tricks they will get out of their bags...

Don't underestimate the power of bullshit, my friend!

Or as Doug Casey puts it: just because something is inevitable, doesn't mean it is imminent.

Your sentiment reminds me of my own in 2007/2008 - I guess I was in a similar frame of mind; I spent countless hours educating myself on the economic situation, gold, the manipulation, the fiat-system etc. and once the markets started crashing I was utterly convinced that this was it and things were going to move quickly, with hyperinflation setting in and the dollar collapsing withing a year or two. Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit and the ability of the guardians of the current system to patch it up with loose money & propaganda and kick the can down the road for many years to come. According to my timetable for financial collapse from back then we should long have been well into the hyperinflation stage with all the trouble that brings...alas here we are with the gold price (probably) suppressed down and mainstream media happily chirping about "recovery" and business as usual. This could go on for years, but not forever.

TL;DR: I agree with Goat. There seems to be overwhelming evidence of gold price manipulation since a loooong time. This doesn't mean that the scheme will collapse within a year or two (it might, though), but one day it will. It will be a lot of fun!

We don't know when it will happen - this year? Next year? The year after that?

We don't know what else TPTB have in store, true.

A lot of people are frustrated because they got in way too early. You would have never heard me say economic collapse is "close" in 2007 or 2008.

But for sure we are getting closer now on a weekly basis. The newest tendency (started only in 2014) is that this info is going mainstream now - absolutely stunning, when you think about it.
oakpacific
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 03:46:33 PM
 #7463

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too.  


Yep. Took me a long time to see that too. The reason why gold cannot be a principal currency in daily use ever again is because it is so unwieldy for face-to-face transactions and can't be used for remote transactions, which are most, by value in a modern economy. A gold-backed debit card is very nice, but who can trust someone else with their gold? Even the German government can't get its gold back.

So fiat is needed, was needed until recently when crypto was invented.

Why not look at it in the other direction? Gold doesn't need to be actively used as a currency to be a good asset, why should Bitcoin? All it needs is some sort of "potential" as a currency.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
Pruden
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 457

Sirius Iberia - Nos tomamos el Bitcoin en serio


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 07:33:43 PM
 #7464

Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit
I love how gold-bugs are never wrong but it's the real world that's astray because of divine intervention.  Grin

Deus ex machina... or aurum ex machina?

Ducky1
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 08:16:37 PM
 #7465

Is it happening already?

P.M. Kitco Roundup: Gold Post Sharp Gains, Hits 6-Week High, as Bulls Gain Technical Momentum

http://www.kitco.com/news/2014-01-23/Gold-Post-Sharp-Gains-Hits-6-Week-High-as-Bulls-Gain-Technical-Momentum.html

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
 - Isaac Asimov
marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 10:05:34 PM
 #7466

Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit
I love how gold-bugs are never wrong but it's the real world that's astray because of divine intervention.  Grin

Deus ex machina... or aurum ex machina?

.. the real world is astray because of central bank intervention, that much is obvious ... not sure CB's are 'divine'? maybe in your world?

sidhujag
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1288


View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:08:16 AM
 #7467

Some info about Gold levels here:

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.no


22. of January
Quote
In Summary:
i) the total dealer inventory of gold settles tonight  at  a very dangerously low  level of only 11.512 tonnes. Dealer gold has never ever been to this level!!

i)  a) JPMorgan's customer inventory rests tonight at  1,371,956.437 (42.673) tonnes)

ii  b)  JPMorgan's dealer account rests tonight at  87,071.35 oz (2.708 tonnes)


iii) the 3 major bullion banks have collectively only 8.881 tonnes of gold left in their dealer account.(JPMorgan, HSBC,Scotia)

Quote
Since JPMorgan has stopped 97% of all issuance, if you remove them from the big three, then we have HSBC and Scotia having an inventory of only 6.173 tonnes of gold which must settle upon 3.880 tonnes of gold still outstanding.

The fun will begin in February especially if we have a large amount of physical gold standing!!

Manipulation is still happening.. I was in the middle of a long post about the history of gold the last few years from cot report positioning to margin requirements changing to screw over long positions.. anyways Ill leave you to the most convincing chart to show the fed gives free reign to a few banks to short naked until cows come home:

http://www.justthinking.us/12/04/12/manipulation_gold_market

CAnt be more obvious. Every ny open the crims sell at will and then again at 10am pacific when the fatsos are back from lunch and martinis. Anytime there are stoplosses they are there.. since people are long they make money forcing short witj free money.

While this happens:

http://www.pinnacledigest.com/blog/pinnacle-digest/gold-flash-crash-manipulation-gold-market-continues-2014

Expect lower prices.

Melbustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1554



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:32:28 AM
 #7468

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...


Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
Melbustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1554



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:37:45 AM
 #7469

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too.  

+1


Yep. Took me a long time to see that too. The reason why gold cannot be a principal currency in daily use ever again is because it is so unwieldy for face-to-face transactions and can't be used for remote transactions, which are most, by value in a modern economy. A gold-backed debit card is very nice, but who can trust someone else with their gold? Even the German government can't get its gold back.

So fiat is needed, was needed until recently when crypto was invented.

+1

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
User705
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:38:59 AM
 #7470

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...


Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

Blockchain is the ultimate truth teller.  Also because large gold holdings are hard to move no one bothers to ask for it.  But a large buyer can simply say "transfer my bitcoins here" and the jig is up if nothing shows up in 10 min.
Melbustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1554



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:58:11 AM
 #7471

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...


Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

Blockchain is the ultimate truth teller.  Also because large gold holdings are hard to move no one bothers to ask for it.  But a large buyer can simply say "transfer my bitcoins here" and the jig is up if nothing shows up in 10 min.


Indeed, instant settlement and verification of possession prior to shorting are both possible with bitcoin in a credible way. But the behavior of traders would have to change to actually demand/require those things. Even today, people leave their bitcoin on exchanges for extended periods. We have no idea whether Gox is operating fractionally, for example, because people DO NOT actually take delivery of their bitcoins.

And in the scheme of what we're talking about with regard to gold price manipulation via naked shorting by large institutions with ulterior motives, the issue of individual traders demanding settlement is not the point; it's about the big guys deliberately colluding to paint the tape.


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
NewLiberty
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Gresham's Lawyer


View Profile WWW
January 24, 2014, 09:15:42 AM
 #7472

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...


Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?


You can't naked short bitcoins, but you can naked short paper bitcoin through debt contracts provided you are sufficiently trusted and the CFTC doesn't get in your way.

The big difference between the paper-gold market and the paper-bitcoin market (other than its nascent existence) is that Bitcoin People aren't so stupid as to believe that an ETF is a pricing metric for anything other than the ETF.
Gold people tend to still see the ETF price as a meaningful price for the physical and use it for trading.  That's why there are folks shorting the ETF and buying the physical.

Bitcoiners are just smarter and more attractive than most people.  Less likely to fall for that game.
Maybe later when there are more sheeple in the bitcoin community this will change and the sheeple will get fleeced.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
rpietila
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386


Crypto Kingdom (Creator)


View Profile
January 24, 2014, 09:52:55 AM
 #7473

Bitcoiners are just smarter and more attractive than most people.

Yeah. The current issue why this is not fully established as the general truth, is the despicable "one man - one vote" system. Bitcoiners should leverage their bitcoin holdings to build an atmosphere of awesomeness around them.

Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 24, 2014, 09:58:38 AM
 #7474


Manipulation is still happening.. I was in the middle of a long post about the history of gold the last few years from cot report positioning to margin requirements changing to screw over long positions.. anyways Ill leave you to the most convincing chart to show the fed gives free reign to a few banks to short naked until cows come home:

http://www.justthinking.us/12/04/12/manipulation_gold_market

CAnt be more obvious. Every ny open the crims sell at will and then again at 10am pacific when the fatsos are back from lunch and martinis. Anytime there are stoplosses they are there.. since people are long they make money forcing short witj free money.

While this happens:

http://www.pinnacledigest.com/blog/pinnacle-digest/gold-flash-crash-manipulation-gold-market-continues-2014

Expect lower prices.



Yup, by now happening every single day, you can set your clock after it.

How much longer do you think this can go on and how close is the Comex to breaking? What else could be left in  their bag of tricks?
Adrian-x
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:28:36 PM
 #7475

Calling thezerg (wasn't that a name from star craft? I played it about 15 years ago )

It's time for a reality check at this historic junction the silverbox update.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
sidhujag
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1288


View Profile
January 24, 2014, 06:57:28 PM
 #7476

Calling thezerg (wasn't that a name from star craft? I played it about 15 years ago )

It's time for a reality check at this historic junction the silverbox update.

this one : http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg?

I remember this one my Pentium MX lol Is the word Pentium becoming outdated already? Felt weird typing that.
Ducky1
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 10:14:49 PM
 #7477

Not really gold directly, but what to think of this:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/it-begins-federal-government-forcing-employees-401k-funds-into-treasuries/

Quote
Those who have been delaying moving their retirement funds out of the system on the account of early withdrawal taxes may want to take notice.
If the official notification an SD reader from the TSP has just received is any indication, it appears that our prediction of forced movement of 401k, IRA, private & public pension funds into US Treasury bonds has begun.
As can be clearly seen via the document below, the retired former employee of the Social Security Administration has received official notice that his entire 401k has been moved from where he allocated it into US treasury bonds without his prior notification or permission!

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
 - Isaac Asimov
flynn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 464



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 10:50:32 PM
 #7478

1 LTC = 1 ounce kg of Silver... Hmm....

fixed that for you.

intentionally left blank
Ducky1
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
January 24, 2014, 10:53:17 PM
 #7479

JPMorgan's Gold Vault Has Biggest One-Day Withdrawal Ever
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/jpmorgans-gold-vault-has-biggest-one-day-withdrawal-ever  Shocked

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
 - Isaac Asimov
stylin
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 62


View Profile
January 25, 2014, 07:07:30 AM
 #7480



I made my first purchase of gold and silver recently. With crypto earnings, lol. Got a good price just before it went up a bit. My question to you all is how likely do you think it is that gold will go to 1000 or 800? I want to pickup some more but at cheap prices...

Honorcoin | 100% PoS | 2% Free Distribution
XHC: HEjJZdyJWBjaLH7w12k2nfqAKMEC9h2Lvt
Pages: « 1 ... 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 [374] 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!