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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805105 times)
phr33
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January 22, 2014, 06:00:52 AM
 #7421


And each of those bars is worth about 400.000€.

so we are looking at a butt load of value here.

You can have a better look at this place here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtf5s2HFkA

Eatch shelf apparently holds a tonne  Smiley

My BTC input: 1GAtPwoTGPQ35y9QugJueum5GzaEzLYjiQ
My GPG ID: B0CCFD4A
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billyjoeallen
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January 22, 2014, 06:50:27 AM
 #7422

gold became the most marketable commodity because it is recognizable, portable, divisible, fungible and scarce. Bitcoin has it beat in every one of these properties.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
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molecular
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January 22, 2014, 07:30:55 AM
 #7423

20,000 bars for all the bitcoins?

no, I want 20,000 for the my last bitcoin alone ;-)

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marcus_of_augustus
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January 22, 2014, 07:42:24 AM
 #7424

Gold still has uses. I can trek anywhere in Myanmar pull out some gold or silver and buy whatever I need. If I tried to use BTC I would starve. I would have to tell them how a computer and internet worked before I could even start to tell them about BTC...

Gold is not dead yet but yes, crypto-coins have made many a gold bugs worry I'm sure.

Anyway I'm still holding to the 5% to 10% of my holdings in PMs and think we will have at least one more massive run up in price before its dead for good.

I'm like 85% crypto and 5% cash.



what the hell did you do to your name?


... It's tough at the top? ...   Cheesy

BldSwtTrs
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January 22, 2014, 08:20:34 AM
 #7425

Whether the last 5 years has invalidated the money as memory of the last 4000 years remains to be seen.  

your use of memory is somewhat tortured there but stimulated my memory of this excellent paper on memory:

Bitcoin is Memory
Cypherdoc, have you read Cursed money by Bastiat? If so, what do you think about it?

As far as I know he is the first to develop the concept of money-memory there. Which is huge, it appeared to be 150 years ahead of anybody else.
And it's a pity that even people who like him (i.e. Austrian) consider him like a weak theoricist.
tvbcof
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January 22, 2014, 08:22:38 AM
 #7426

I'm liking this thread...so many new faces in the wall observer, I can relax with you guys

Thank God I didn't make the mistake of putting a comment on the wall observer thread so I hardly ever look at it.


kehtolo
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January 22, 2014, 09:25:43 AM
 #7427


... It's tough at the top? ...   Cheesy

..And it's twice as tough at the bottom!

The last 24 hours were critical but the next 24 hours are criticaller!
oakpacific
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January 22, 2014, 09:40:48 AM
 #7428






That picture, and others like it, just make the idea of gold so obviously absurd. The monetary intrinsic value of gold (ie, it's "goodness" as money) died when it became no longer feasible to circulate it directly (ie, when people developed the need to transact quickly over distance).

After thinking about and using bitcoin a lot, this is ever more obvious, and pictures like the above are downright silly. Literally laughable. Why are we bothering with all this stacks of gold anymore?

It was rational when gold was usable as money, and it still made *some* sense when it "backed" paper (though people should've realized the inevitable; namely that the backers would eventually screw with the backing ratio and reserves, therefore making the whole arrangement a giant charade).

But now? Seriously??

Maybe I've just been fighting Jim Rickards on twitter too much lately, but PMs are only useful in a very thin slice of the long-tail; other than some very specific pseudo-apocalyptic use-cases, they're done.

But...but what about CombiBar? Supposed to be the greatest invention since sliced bread?

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
Dr Bloggood
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January 22, 2014, 10:55:53 AM
 #7429

Thought this was relevant:

deustche bank pulls out of rigging

Yep, looks like the germanic branch of the cartel has taken umbrage at not getting it's gold back from the yanks in a timely manner ... we are v. close to the full-blown family bust up ...

I believe old Queen Lizzie poking her nose around in basement of Bank of England last year was no accident and more than merely symbolic, something's up ...

There is certainly something in the cooking, it feels like the end of this is incredibly close...

However, not sure why DB did that.

John Embry's view:

But I find it fascinating that Deutsche Bank left the gold price fixing in London.  I remember vividly what happened 10 years ago when the Rothschilds left the London fix.  At that point the gold market was still laboring around $400, and everybody said, ‘Oh my God, the Rothschilds are leaving the London fix, this must mean there is no future whatsoever for the gold market.’

I took a different view.  I said they (the Rothschilds) were going ‘underground’ because they wanted to participate in the massive upside they knew was coming, and over the next 7 years the gold price went up over $1,500!  This is why I think Deutsche Bank leaving the London gold fix is so huge, along with that German revelation.



http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/1/17/Buy-physical-gold-and-avoid-paper-CME-Trader.aspx

follow the money !

"there may not be enough gold to go around if everyone with a futures contract insists on taking delivery of physical bullion ... Knippa warns that if 1 entity asks for delivery of a position-limit-size long in gold, it will absorb 81% of COMEX's inventory... and if 2 entities were to do so... COMEX has a problem..."



What would happen? Lay away? bank has to purchase physical from somewhere at a premium driving up price?

At some point, the Comex won't be able to get their gold, because there won't be any in these quantities. Comex breaks, manipulation game over.

Even if they could purchase it from somehwere, they would have to pay a lot more which would mean A LOT higher prices.

Another scenario might be Comex keeps on showing the paper price, but becomes irrelevant and the price for physical will be much higher (new exchanges purely for physical are being started in Asia).

Anyways, expect gold to explode to the upside and multiply its price by many times. Might start soon.

"Gold is dead" is such an utterly, utterly ridiculous claim on any level, especially by Bitcoiners (who should know better). The match is like 5000:3 for gold (years of active usage).

I'm not talking about use as a currency, BTC is better in that regards for sure. I'm talking about the more important stuff: Keeping the value of what you have and making it more. And of course I'm talking long-term.
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January 22, 2014, 02:00:36 PM
 #7430


I'm not talking about use as a currency, BTC is better in that regards for sure. I'm talking about the more important stuff: Keeping the value of what you have and making it more. And of course I'm talking long-term.

And then you're picking gold over Bitcoin? Really?  Huh

Dr Bloggood
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January 22, 2014, 02:07:10 PM
 #7431


I'm not talking about use as a currency, BTC is better in that regards for sure. I'm talking about the more important stuff: Keeping the value of what you have and making it more. And of course I'm talking long-term.

And then you're picking gold over Bitcoin? Really?  Huh

They both got their places in a well-balanced portfolio, I like them both. But they are completely different in term of risk (and in terms of risk/reward ratio)...

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.
rpietila
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January 22, 2014, 02:49:40 PM
 #7432

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

Dr Bloggood
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January 22, 2014, 03:15:58 PM
 #7433

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

I see in your signature you seem to be handling PMs professionally - what do you do there?
molecular
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January 22, 2014, 05:54:59 PM
 #7434

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

hmm.. Let me guess.. you're probably quite a bit over 40 years of age?

David Morgan suggests the older you are the more you should be in gold as opposed to silver. Replace "gold" with "precious metal" and "silver" with "crypto" and I can agree.

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January 22, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
 #7435

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-incredible-gold-interest-rate-correlation-2014-01-22
TL;DR: Suggests proper price of AU is US$800/oz based on recent historical links to bond interest rates.

We may get gold ozt parity ahead of US$1K parity?

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Dr Bloggood
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January 22, 2014, 07:25:32 PM
 #7436

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

hmm.. Let me guess.. you're probably quite a bit over 40 years of age?

David Morgan suggests the older you are the more you should be in gold as opposed to silver. Replace "gold" with "precious metal" and "silver" with "crypto" and I can agree.


No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?
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January 22, 2014, 08:07:00 PM
 #7437

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

hmm.. Let me guess.. you're probably quite a bit over 40 years of age?

David Morgan suggests the older you are the more you should be in gold as opposed to silver. Replace "gold" with "precious metal" and "silver" with "crypto" and I can agree.


No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

If the majority of the capital in the market agreed with you, price would already be different.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
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January 22, 2014, 08:56:26 PM
 #7438


Anyway Myanmar is one of the most interesting places to truly do nature trekking in the same way people were able to do it 300 years ago.


To take this a little bit further off-topic  Wink ...

To say you have an affinity with Asia would be putting it mildly. Could I ask how this came about? Is this an interest that goes a long way back, did your parents travel there, work etc.?

Have you also visited Nepal? Maybe Bhutan?
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January 22, 2014, 09:30:32 PM
 #7439



No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

You did not ask me, but I want to answer. I would assume you are 25ish and very new to investing in Gold. Saw some gold bug forums and some youtube videos.

Gold has been like this for a long time. Gold in its history has almost always been heavily manipulated and sometimes even banned. This manipulation could go on for another 100 years but with almost no effort 5 to 10 years. Only the collapse of the west would really change anything and even then, who knows how things will go. You might be right and this happens in the next few months but I would say your guess was lucky. Odds are just as good that it will be $800 in a year or sooner. People saying it will soon go to 0 however are crazy...

I think everyone should hold some physical gold and silver but having too much of it at a time like this is risky. Also if you do not invest anything into crypto and go all in gold I think you very well might miss the train.

Diversification is very good, and holding physical gold is not bad, but with crypto, you have a change to get in on Gold 2.0 early. I think you should take this opportunity.



I have been very loosely occupied with gold for a couple of years, and have studied it closer for the last 10 months, and really hardcore (often several hours per day) since June 2013 or so. I bought about 50% of my PM holdings on the lowest day of the correction so far (end of June 2013), and the rest in the following months.

There is no way gold is going to $800, it's just not going to happen. Maybe at the very most it could go down 20% more, although I have the feeling that won't happen, especially after what the manipulators tried over the last couple of months and pretty much completely failing.

I have crypto, thanks, I'm a big fan of BTC! The difference between us is: You say PMs are risky and BTC is safe (right?), and I say BTC is risky and PMs are, at current levels, extremely low risk (long term anyways).

I really don't have the feeling that without effort this could go on for another five years: Look at Comex inventories, German gold repatriation, Chinese imports, etc, etc... It's very hard for me to figure how the manipulation could even continue beyond 2014 - but who knows which last minute tricks they will get out of their bags...

My question to you: Why doesn't holding mostly cryptos seem risky to you? I think most people would tell you it is.

At least we can agree on gold being manipulated, that's something! I wish you success with your investments (especially with BTC, which would make all of us a ton of money)!
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January 22, 2014, 09:48:22 PM
 #7440


What the hell are you doing trekking in Burma? Lambos prolly have a hard time on mountain trails even if there wasn't a murderous military junta running around killing people willy nilly.

Lol, No Lambo's in Myanmar. The "highways" are crazy the way they are. One time coming back from trekking I had a private car but the driver showed up at 9am drunk. He drank all night. In the first 5 mins he clipped a motorcyclist and made him let me drive. I had to drive 8 hours back to the capital while trying to get this drunk driver to give me directions. Obstacles included but where not limited to, cows, horses, goats, dogs, people eating lunhc, people sleeping, giant rocks, other cars in my lane going the wrong way, army check points (that i just ignored).

As far as the murderous junta, not the case as much any more, but yes still an issue. I was loosely connected to a "minority independence group" but that ended when they signed a deal with the govt after 65 years of war.

Anyway Myanmar is one of the most interesting places to truly do nature trekking in the same way people were able to do it 300 years ago. Just bring gold, not BTC  Cool


Kinda my point. Gold is so 18th century. There's a lot of 18th century technology that's still useful, but only for special applications.  Most people want to survive and thrive in the modern world, not be living anachronisms. To do that, we need 21st century efficiency. A spear is a handy thing to have on a hike. I satellite phone is too ;-)

insert coin here:
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