Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 12:29:39 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 [373] 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805801 times)
T.Stuart
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


View Profile
January 22, 2014, 09:49:01 PM
 #7441


Anyway Myanmar is one of the most interesting places to truly do nature trekking in the same way people were able to do it 300 years ago.


To take this a little bit further off-topic  Wink ...

To say you have an affinity with Asia would be putting it mildly. Could I ask how this came about? Is this an interest that goes a long way back, did your parents travel there, work etc.?

Have you also visited Nepal? Maybe Bhutan?


When I was 21 I did a 40 day trek/van tour across Mongolia. That sort of started it I guess. My parents do not travel and I have never needed to do so for work.

Have been to Nepal/Bhutan. Also met the current King of Bhutan but that was while he was on tour in Thailand.

Parts of Asia are just awesome and it shocks me how different the regions are. I have been to Europe it is too developed for me to really enjoy. I have been meaning to get down to South America but who has the time :/


Hey! I also met the King of Bhutan, a few years ago when he was the Crown Prince Smiley. He studied at Oxford University and came to visit the Lama at the local Tibetan Buddhist Centre at which I worked for several years. Lama cooked the most fantastic meal (as well as being an extremely high-level practitioner of meditation he is also an amazing cook!) and for want of space we set up a table in the shrine room for lunch.

Did you have any problems getting into Bhutan, as I believe it is not one of the easiest to get a visa for? Or is that where the gold comes into the picture and back into this thread  Wink

I haven't yet made it out to Nepal but I will do so in a few years. I think I would like to wait until my son is old enough to really appreciate it, and take him with me. But despite not visiting the country, I met and knew so many Nepalese and Tibetans while in Oxford that I feel lucky to have been able really to experience the culture, somewhat displaced as it is over there.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481156979
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156979

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156979
Reply with quote  #2

1481156979
Report to moderator
1481156979
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156979

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156979
Reply with quote  #2

1481156979
Report to moderator
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 22, 2014, 09:54:02 PM
 #7442

However holding no crypto is just silly in my mind. The risk reward is just too great to not be in the game.


I absolutely agree - that's why I got me some!



I strong disagree that the odds of this are 0% esp  


Well, I guess not even the odds we are going to get hit by a meteor tomorrow and die are zero.


esp when Gold was $250ish 12 years ago and they have the ability to more or less set the price to whatever they want.


You really should read up a bit on gold - things like price of production, relation gold to monetary base, relation paper gold to physical, etc.. Also, they can't set the price to where they want - and believe me, they tried, especially in 2013...

To me in turn, 85% cryptos seems crazy. Smiley
NewLiberty
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Gresham's Lawyer


View Profile WWW
January 22, 2014, 09:57:18 PM
 #7443

However holding no crypto is just silly in my mind. The risk reward is just too great to not be in the game.


I absolutely agree - that's why I got me some!



I strong disagree that the odds of this are 0% esp  


Well, I guess not even the odds we are going to get hit by a meteor tomorrow and die are zero.


esp when Gold was $250ish 12 years ago and they have the ability to more or less set the price to whatever they want.


You really should read up a bit on gold - things like price of production, relation gold to monetary base, relation paper gold to physical, etc.. Also, they can't set the price to where they want - and believe me, they tried, especially in 2013...

To me in turn, 85% cryptos seems crazy. Smiley

Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 22, 2014, 09:59:41 PM
 #7444


Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley

I hope so! Smiley

BTC has to go x10 before I sell a little of it.
NewLiberty
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Gresham's Lawyer


View Profile WWW
January 22, 2014, 10:07:18 PM
 #7445


Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley

I hope so! Smiley

BTC has to go x10 before I sell a little of it.

Great, your Hodling.  Give it a year or two, you will be as crazy as the rest of us at 85%.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 22, 2014, 10:15:27 PM
 #7446


Ha, you need to lurk more  Wink  I have been investing in gold since 1992.

Wow, that's a long-ass time - it might explain your frustrations with gold. Understandable.

Nevertheless, what you first suspected with me might be the case with you - you sound pretty uninformed on gold!

Anyways, let's let that discussion be now. Hopefully both assets will go through the roof...
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 22, 2014, 10:29:27 PM
 #7447


Ha, you need to lurk more  Wink  I have been investing in gold since 1992.

Wow, that's a long-ass time - it might explain your frustrations with gold. Understandable.

Nevertheless, what you first suspected with me might be the case with you - you sound pretty uninformed on gold!

Anyways, let's let that discussion be now. Hopefully both assets will go through the roof...

Now you are being mildly insulting. I invested significantly in 2002 to 2004. I then sold out near the highs in 2010/2011 to get into BTC.

I am not at all frustrated with gold and one of the few here on this form who would even tell you it is worth holding at all.

You realize gold is manipulated, you just do not understand how much. You assume incorrectly that the manipulators will fail at their game soon. You fail to understand this game has been going on for 500 years. They know what they are doing and the fact that you think you know better than them is just laughable. You might get lucky a couple of times on calls but with arrogance like this in the market you will get destroyed in the end.



I didn't mean to be insulting.

Peace and good luck!
Chalkbot
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 892



View Profile
January 22, 2014, 11:50:58 PM
 #7448

So, what's the consensus in this thread on diversification?

I've always subscribed to the idea that diversification is for people who don't know what they are doing (to put it politely). I've got myself so deep in BTC that I'm not even paying attention to the rest of the world, because I can't even imagine anything else with as much promise.

Maybe I'm doing it right (seems to be working pretty fucking awesome so far), but would like to at least look at some other things...
chriswilmer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008


View Profile WWW
January 23, 2014, 02:52:56 AM
 #7449


Ha, you need to lurk more  Wink  I have been investing in gold since 1992.

Wow, that's a long-ass time - it might explain your frustrations with gold. Understandable.

Nevertheless, what you first suspected with me might be the case with you - you sound pretty uninformed on gold!

Anyways, let's let that discussion be now. Hopefully both assets will go through the roof...

Now you are being mildly insulting. I invested significantly in 2002 to 2004. I then sold out near the highs in 2010/2011 to get into BTC.

I am not at all frustrated with gold and one of the few here on this form who would even tell you it is worth holding at all.

You realize gold is manipulated, you just do not understand how much. You assume incorrectly that the manipulators will fail at their game soon. You fail to understand this game has been going on for 500 years. They know what they are doing and the fact that you think you know better than them is just laughable. You might get lucky a couple of times on calls but with arrogance like this in the market you will get destroyed in the end.



Hey Goat,

I have a kind of newbie gold-manipulation question... I've never really understood what it even means to manipulate the price of gold. Is there an ELI5 version of how the price of gold is manipulated? Or is the only answer long and complicated and I have read books about it to know...

Thanks in advance!
adamstgBit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904


Trusted Bitcoiner


View Profile WWW
January 23, 2014, 04:07:06 AM
 #7450


Ha, you need to lurk more  Wink  I have been investing in gold since 1992.

Wow, that's a long-ass time - it might explain your frustrations with gold. Understandable.

Nevertheless, what you first suspected with me might be the case with you - you sound pretty uninformed on gold!

Anyways, let's let that discussion be now. Hopefully both assets will go through the roof...

Now you are being mildly insulting. I invested significantly in 2002 to 2004. I then sold out near the highs in 2010/2011 to get into BTC.

I am not at all frustrated with gold and one of the few here on this form who would even tell you it is worth holding at all.

You realize gold is manipulated, you just do not understand how much. You assume incorrectly that the manipulators will fail at their game soon. You fail to understand this game has been going on for 500 years. They know what they are doing and the fact that you think you know better than them is just laughable. You might get lucky a couple of times on calls but with arrogance like this in the market you will get destroyed in the end.



Hey Goat,

I have a kind of newbie gold-manipulation question... I've never really understood what it even means to manipulate the price of gold. Is there an ELI5 version of how the price of gold is manipulated? Or is the only answer long and complicated and I have read books about it to know...

Thanks in advance!

The very simple answer is about 5 banks get to just make up the price of gold and that is what it is. This is not a transparent process.


thing is, people can "naked short" the PM market

this means they have no gold to sell, they don't barrow gold to sell, they use Dollars to short the market.

gold bugs hate this, and say that the reason gold is going down is because the FED and banks are naked shorting the PM market to oblivion in order to keep the appearance that the market isn't going totally crazy because everyone sees the end of the dollar in sight.

which is believable, if gold was allowed to run up to 15,000$ an ounce, poeple might start to talk about it, and then they would be exposed to the whole USD is worthless fiat thing. and they would lose confidence in USD  and run to gold, then the USD would be toast....

Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...

in conclusion, bitcoin is what will kill the dollar, not gold, but gold maybe a good buy right now, because its been heavily manipulated down, once the system collapses the manipulation will stop, and it should be more valuable, but keep in mind that gold has value because it is seen as a safe haven should the system crash. clearly bitcoin is the safe haven should the system crash, so whats an oz of gold good for now. Gold sucks balls, silver is equally manipulated and carries less speculative value.

final conclusion, buy silver because bitcoin is what will kill the dollar.

 Cheesy


Peter R
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 06:34:05 AM
 #7451

Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley

+1

It doesn't start out at 85%, it just seems to end up that way all of a sudden. 

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 06:49:25 AM
 #7452



No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

You did not ask me, but I want to answer. I would assume you are 25ish and very new to investing in Gold. Saw some gold bug forums and some youtube videos.

Gold has been like this for a long time. Gold in its history has almost always been heavily manipulated and sometimes even banned. This manipulation could go on for another 100 years but with almost no effort 5 to 10 years.

One has to admit that the gold-bug propaganda ("the west is running out of physical, when that happens, the game is over and gold multiplies in value") is getting more convincing as of late, though. I considered it a general confirmation of that theory
when germany was basically told to fuck off when they asked for some of their gold back. If that doesn't prove the lack of gold in the US, what does? Add to that the recent leaving of the London gold fix by Deutsche Bank and the affirmation by Bafin (german banking/finance oversight authority) that gold price manipulation is a reality and is "worse than the libor manipulation". The exposing of the gold manipulation also seems to go more mainstream these days.

I think it's indeed possible the "jig is up" soon and I wouldn't be surprised.

On the other hand I agree with Goat: gold-bugs have been saying that this system will fail "very soon" for quite a long time now and it's certainly conceivable "the operators" might drag this thing down the road for quite a bit longer. These dudes are smart and have means at their disposal.

I agree ignoring crypto is likely very stupid. It's still probably a one in a lifetime chance for most people.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 07:01:40 AM
 #7453

Give it a little while, if you're lax in your "rebalencing", you too many end up with 85% cryptos!  Smiley

Haha, this made my day. Probably true, too.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
ErisDiscordia
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 892


Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 07:02:23 AM
 #7454

I really don't have the feeling that without effort this could go on for another five years: Look at Comex inventories, German gold repatriation, Chinese imports, etc, etc... It's very hard for me to figure how the manipulation could even continue beyond 2014 - but who knows which last minute tricks they will get out of their bags...

Don't underestimate the power of bullshit, my friend!

Or as Doug Casey puts it: just because something is inevitable, doesn't mean it is imminent.

Your sentiment reminds me of my own in 2007/2008 - I guess I was in a similar frame of mind; I spent countless hours educating myself on the economic situation, gold, the manipulation, the fiat-system etc. and once the markets started crashing I was utterly convinced that this was it and things were going to move quickly, with hyperinflation setting in and the dollar collapsing withing a year or two. Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit and the ability of the guardians of the current system to patch it up with loose money & propaganda and kick the can down the road for many years to come. According to my timetable for financial collapse from back then we should long have been well into the hyperinflation stage with all the trouble that brings...alas here we are with the gold price (probably) suppressed down and mainstream media happily chirping about "recovery" and business as usual. This could go on for years, but not forever.

TL;DR: I agree with Goat. There seems to be overwhelming evidence of gold price manipulation since a loooong time. This doesn't mean that the scheme will collapse within a year or two (it might, though), but one day it will. It will be a lot of fun!

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 07:11:44 AM
 #7455

So, what's the consensus in this thread on diversification?

I think almost everyone here would agree that diversification is good. Noone says crypto is risk-free.

What people disagree on is the ratios.

I've always subscribed to the idea that diversification is for people who don't know what they are doing (to put it politely). I've got myself so deep in BTC that I'm not even paying attention to the rest of the world, because I can't even imagine anything else with as much promise.

Much promise? Yes, certainly. Much security? Doubtful.

Thinking one knows the future seems arrogant.

If you're young and don't have much wealth and nothing to lose, it can make sense to go 100% bitcoin, but for everyone else it's probably too risky still.

Maybe I'm doing it right (seems to be working pretty fucking awesome so far), but would like to at least look at some other things...

Yes, maybe you're doing it right. People that have a lot of wealth have an easy time suggesting diversification. In my mind, if you are low on wealth, having the balls to hold on to the crypto you have for as long as it takes for it to appreciate enough to make diversification reasonable is the way to go. Certainly would've worked for me and I regret (well, not really, it was the correct decision at the time) putting much more into gold/silver than into crypto back in '11.

But in the end: who knows how things will develop... we'll have to suffer the consequences of our actions, that much is certain.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
billyjoeallen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


Hide your women


View Profile WWW
January 23, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
 #7456

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too. 


insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
solex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


100 satoshis -> ISO code


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 08:57:58 AM
 #7457

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too.  


Yep. Took me a long time to see that too. The reason why gold cannot be a principal currency in daily use ever again is because it is so unwieldy for face-to-face transactions and can't be used for remote transactions, which are most, by value in a modern economy. A gold-backed debit card is very nice, but who can trust someone else with their gold? Even the German government can't get its gold back.

So fiat is needed, was needed until recently when crypto was invented.

marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 09:36:19 AM
 #7458

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too.  


Yep. Took me a long time to see that too. The reason why gold cannot be a principal currency in daily use ever again is because it is so unwieldy for face-to-face transactions and can't be used for remote transactions, which are most, by value in a modern economy. A gold-backed debit card is very nice, but who can trust someone else with their gold? Even the German government can't get its gold back.

So fiat is needed, was needed until recently when crypto was invented.

All in then? Wink

Ducky1
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476



View Profile
January 23, 2014, 10:09:51 AM
 #7459

Some info about Gold levels here:

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.no


22. of January
Quote
In Summary:
i) the total dealer inventory of gold settles tonight  at  a very dangerously low  level of only 11.512 tonnes. Dealer gold has never ever been to this level!!

i)  a) JPMorgan's customer inventory rests tonight at  1,371,956.437 (42.673) tonnes)

ii  b)  JPMorgan's dealer account rests tonight at  87,071.35 oz (2.708 tonnes)


iii) the 3 major bullion banks have collectively only 8.881 tonnes of gold left in their dealer account.(JPMorgan, HSBC,Scotia)

Quote
Since JPMorgan has stopped 97% of all issuance, if you remove them from the big three, then we have HSBC and Scotia having an inventory of only 6.173 tonnes of gold which must settle upon 3.880 tonnes of gold still outstanding.

The fun will begin in February especially if we have a large amount of physical gold standing!!

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
 - Isaac Asimov
Dr Bloggood
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 23, 2014, 11:56:59 AM
 #7460


thing is, people can "naked short" the PM market

this means they have no gold to sell, they don't barrow gold to sell, they use Dollars to short the market.

gold bugs hate this, and say that the reason gold is going down is because the FED and banks are naked shorting the PM market to oblivion in order to keep the appearance that the market isn't going totally crazy because everyone sees the end of the dollar in sight.

which is believable, if gold was allowed to run up to 15,000$ an ounce, poeple might start to talk about it, and then they would be exposed to the whole USD is worthless fiat thing. and they would lose confidence in USD  and run to gold, then the USD would be toast....


chriswilmer, this is basically the answer to your question.
Pages: « 1 ... 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 [373] 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!