Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Ducky1]

Some info about Gold levels here:

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.no


22. of January

In Summary:
i) the total dealer inventory of gold settles tonight  at  a very dangerously low  level of only 11.512 tonnes. Dealer gold has never ever been to this level!!

i)  a) JPMorgan's customer inventory rests tonight at  1,371,956.437 (42.673) tonnes)

ii  b)  JPMorgan's dealer account rests tonight at  87,071.35 oz (2.708 tonnes)


iii) the 3 major bullion banks have collectively only 8.881 tonnes of gold left in their dealer account.(JPMorgan, HSBC,Scotia)

Since JPMorgan has stopped 97% of all issuance, if you remove them from the big three, then we have HSBC and Scotia having an inventory of only 6.173 tonnes of gold which must settle upon 3.880 tonnes of gold still outstanding.

The fun will begin in February especially if we have a large amount of physical gold standing!!

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[Dr Bloggood]

thing is, people can "naked short" the PM market

this means they have no gold to sell, they don't barrow gold to sell, they use Dollars to short the market.

gold bugs hate this, and say that the reason gold is going down is because the FED and banks are naked shorting the PM market to oblivion in order to keep the appearance that the market isn't going totally crazy because everyone sees the end of the dollar in sight.

which is believable, if gold was allowed to run up to 15,000$ an ounce, poeple might start to talk about it, and then they would be exposed to the whole USD is worthless fiat thing. and they would lose confidence in USD  and run to gold, then the USD would be toast....

chriswilmer, this is basically the answer to your question.

[Dr Bloggood]

No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

You did not ask me, but I want to answer. I would assume you are 25ish and very new to investing in Gold. Saw some gold bug forums and some youtube videos.

Gold has been like this for a long time. Gold in its history has almost always been heavily manipulated and sometimes even banned. This manipulation could go on for another 100 years but with almost no effort 5 to 10 years.

One has to admit that the gold-bug propaganda ("the west is running out of physical, when that happens, the game is over and gold multiplies in value") is getting more convincing as of late, though. I considered it a general confirmation of that theory
when germany was basically told to fuck off when they asked for some of their gold back. If that doesn't prove the lack of gold in the US, what does? Add to that the recent leaving of the London gold fix by Deutsche Bank and the affirmation by Bafin (german banking/finance oversight authority) that gold price manipulation is a reality and is "worse than the libor manipulation". The exposing of the gold manipulation also seems to go more mainstream these days.

I think it's indeed possible the "jig is up" soon and I wouldn't be surprised.

On the other hand I agree with Goat: gold-bugs have been saying that this system will fail "very soon" for quite a long time now and it's certainly conceivable "the operators" might drag this thing down the road for quite a bit longer. These dudes are smart and have means at their disposal.

I agree ignoring crypto is likely very stupid. It's still probably a one in a lifetime chance for most people.

Ok, now does sounds a lot better. We are on the same page.

[Dr Bloggood]

I really don't have the feeling that without effort this could go on for another five years: Look at Comex inventories, German gold repatriation, Chinese imports, etc, etc... It's very hard for me to figure how the manipulation could even continue beyond 2014 - but who knows which last minute tricks they will get out of their bags...

Don't underestimate the power of bullshit, my friend!

Or as Doug Casey puts it: just because something is inevitable, doesn't mean it is imminent.

Your sentiment reminds me of my own in 2007/2008 - I guess I was in a similar frame of mind; I spent countless hours educating myself on the economic situation, gold, the manipulation, the fiat-system etc. and once the markets started crashing I was utterly convinced that this was it and things were going to move quickly, with hyperinflation setting in and the dollar collapsing withing a year or two. Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit and the ability of the guardians of the current system to patch it up with loose money & propaganda and kick the can down the road for many years to come. According to my timetable for financial collapse from back then we should long have been well into the hyperinflation stage with all the trouble that brings...alas here we are with the gold price (probably) suppressed down and mainstream media happily chirping about "recovery" and business as usual. This could go on for years, but not forever.

TL;DR: I agree with Goat. There seems to be overwhelming evidence of gold price manipulation since a loooong time. This doesn't mean that the scheme will collapse within a year or two (it might, though), but one day it will. It will be a lot of fun!

We don't know when it will happen - this year? Next year? The year after that?

We don't know what else TPTB have in store, true.

A lot of people are frustrated because they got in way too early. You would have never heard me say economic collapse is "close" in 2007 or 2008.

But for sure we are getting closer now on a weekly basis. The newest tendency (started only in 2014) is that this info is going mainstream now - absolutely stunning, when you think about it.

[oakpacific]

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too.  

Yep. Took me a long time to see that too. The reason why gold cannot be a principal currency in daily use ever again is because it is so unwieldy for face-to-face transactions and can't be used for remote transactions, which are most, by value in a modern economy. A gold-backed debit card is very nice, but who can trust someone else with their gold? Even the German government can't get its gold back.

So fiat is needed, was needed until recently when crypto was invented.

Why not look at it in the other direction? Gold doesn't need to be actively used as a currency to be a good asset, why should Bitcoin? All it needs is some sort of "potential" as a currency.

[Pruden]

Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit

I love how gold-bugs are never wrong but it's the real world that's astray because of divine intervention.  

Deus ex machina... or aurum ex machina?

[Ducky1]

Is it happening already?

P.M. Kitco Roundup: Gold Post Sharp Gains, Hits 6-Week High, as Bulls Gain Technical Momentum

http://www.kitco.com/news/2014-01-23/Gold-Post-Sharp-Gains-Hits-6-Week-High-as-Bulls-Gain-Technical-Momentum.html

[marcus_of_augustus]

Turns out I underestimated the power of bullshit

I love how gold-bugs are never wrong but it's the real world that's astray because of divine intervention.  

Deus ex machina... or aurum ex machina?

.. the real world is astray because of central bank intervention, that much is obvious ... not sure CB's are 'divine'? maybe in your world?

[sidhujag]

Some info about Gold levels here:

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.no


22. of January

In Summary:
i) the total dealer inventory of gold settles tonight  at  a very dangerously low  level of only 11.512 tonnes. Dealer gold has never ever been to this level!!

i)  a) JPMorgan's customer inventory rests tonight at  1,371,956.437 (42.673) tonnes)

ii  b)  JPMorgan's dealer account rests tonight at  87,071.35 oz (2.708 tonnes)


iii) the 3 major bullion banks have collectively only 8.881 tonnes of gold left in their dealer account.(JPMorgan, HSBC,Scotia)

Since JPMorgan has stopped 97% of all issuance, if you remove them from the big three, then we have HSBC and Scotia having an inventory of only 6.173 tonnes of gold which must settle upon 3.880 tonnes of gold still outstanding.

The fun will begin in February especially if we have a large amount of physical gold standing!!

Manipulation is still happening.. I was in the middle of a long post about the history of gold the last few years from cot report positioning to margin requirements changing to screw over long positions.. anyways Ill leave you to the most convincing chart to show the fed gives free reign to a few banks to short naked until cows come home:

http://www.justthinking.us/12/04/12/manipulation_gold_market

CAnt be more obvious. Every ny open the crims sell at will and then again at 10am pacific when the fatsos are back from lunch and martinis. Anytime there are stoplosses they are there.. since people are long they make money forcing short witj free money.

While this happens:

http://www.pinnacledigest.com/blog/pinnacle-digest/gold-flash-crash-manipulation-gold-market-continues-2014

Expect lower prices.

[Melbustus]

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...

Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

[Melbustus]

Yer dreaming. I watch these shows on cable TV of these schmucks working their asses off mining gold in AK, the Yukon and even offshore to mine gold at $1200/oz.  if the price doubles, every swinging dick with a shovel and a gleam in his eye will be out there with them. Gold WAS money. real money. free market money. It's easily recognizable, fungible, divisible portable and scarce. Bitcoin is MORE fungible, recognizable, divisible, portable and scarce. There's enough gold on the planet to cover the surface eight feet thick. You wanna dig it out of one hole, put it in another and pay someone to guard it. Good luck with that. It was awesome 18th century technology, but this is the 21st century.

We are never going back to a gold standard. I hate to agree with the asshole Kenesians, but they're right on this. You might use it like Goat does to trade in some mountain village in Burma, but in the real world you live in, it's good for speaker plugs and trinkets. Five thousand years was a good run. It's over. over. We used horses for five thousand years too.  

+1

Yep. Took me a long time to see that too. The reason why gold cannot be a principal currency in daily use ever again is because it is so unwieldy for face-to-face transactions and can't be used for remote transactions, which are most, by value in a modern economy. A gold-backed debit card is very nice, but who can trust someone else with their gold? Even the German government can't get its gold back.

So fiat is needed, was needed until recently when crypto was invented.

+1

[User705]

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...

Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

Blockchain is the ultimate truth teller.  Also because large gold holdings are hard to move no one bothers to ask for it.  But a large buyer can simply say "transfer my bitcoins here" and the jig is up if nothing shows up in 10 min.

[Melbustus]

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...

Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

Blockchain is the ultimate truth teller.  Also because large gold holdings are hard to move no one bothers to ask for it.  But a large buyer can simply say "transfer my bitcoins here" and the jig is up if nothing shows up in 10 min.

Indeed, instant settlement and verification of possession prior to shorting are both possible with bitcoin in a credible way. But the behavior of traders would have to change to actually demand/require those things. Even today, people leave their bitcoin on exchanges for extended periods. We have no idea whether Gox is operating fractionally, for example, because people DO NOT actually take delivery of their bitcoins.

And in the scheme of what we're talking about with regard to gold price manipulation via naked shorting by large institutions with ulterior motives, the issue of individual traders demanding settlement is not the point; it's about the big guys deliberately colluding to paint the tape.

[NewLiberty]

...
Bitcoin is not so easily manipulated, no one can naked short bitcoins...
...

Why not? All depends on what trading rules exchanges follow. If bitcoin ends up as a new asset-class in existing commodities-trading infrastructure, how would that be any different than paper-gold trading?

You can't naked short bitcoins, but you can naked short paper bitcoin through debt contracts provided you are sufficiently trusted and the CFTC doesn't get in your way.

The big difference between the paper-gold market and the paper-bitcoin market (other than its nascent existence) is that Bitcoin People aren't so stupid as to believe that an ETF is a pricing metric for anything other than the ETF.
Gold people tend to still see the ETF price as a meaningful price for the physical and use it for trading.  That's why there are folks shorting the ETF and buying the physical.

Bitcoiners are just smarter and more attractive than most people.  Less likely to fall for that game.
Maybe later when there are more sheeple in the bitcoin community this will change and the sheeple will get fleeced.

[rpietila]

Bitcoiners are just smarter and more attractive than most people.

Yeah. The current issue why this is not fully established as the general truth, is the despicable "one man - one vote" system. Bitcoiners should leverage their bitcoin holdings to build an atmosphere of awesomeness around them.

[Dr Bloggood]

Manipulation is still happening.. I was in the middle of a long post about the history of gold the last few years from cot report positioning to margin requirements changing to screw over long positions.. anyways Ill leave you to the most convincing chart to show the fed gives free reign to a few banks to short naked until cows come home:

http://www.justthinking.us/12/04/12/manipulation_gold_market

CAnt be more obvious. Every ny open the crims sell at will and then again at 10am pacific when the fatsos are back from lunch and martinis. Anytime there are stoplosses they are there.. since people are long they make money forcing short witj free money.

While this happens:

http://www.pinnacledigest.com/blog/pinnacle-digest/gold-flash-crash-manipulation-gold-market-continues-2014

Expect lower prices.

Yup, by now happening every single day, you can set your clock after it.

How much longer do you think this can go on and how close is the Comex to breaking? What else could be left in  their bag of tricks?

[Adrian-x]

Calling thezerg (wasn't that a name from star craft? I played it about 15 years ago )

It's time for a reality check at this historic junction the silverbox update.

[sidhujag]

Calling thezerg (wasn't that a name from star craft? I played it about 15 years ago )

It's time for a reality check at this historic junction the silverbox update.

this one : http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg?

I remember this one my Pentium MX lol Is the word Pentium becoming outdated already? Felt weird typing that.

[Ducky1]

Not really gold directly, but what to think of this:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/it-begins-federal-government-forcing-employees-401k-funds-into-treasuries/

Those who have been delaying moving their retirement funds out of the system on the account of early withdrawal taxes may want to take notice.
If the official notification an SD reader from the TSP has just received is any indication, it appears that our prediction of forced movement of 401k, IRA, private & public pension funds into US Treasury bonds has begun.
As can be clearly seen via the document below, the retired former employee of the Social Security Administration has received official notice that his entire 401k has been moved from where he allocated it into US treasury bonds without his prior notification or permission!

[flynn]

1 LTC = 1 ounce kg of Silver... Hmm....

fixed that for you.