Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[adamstgBit]

negative interest rates coming right up:

lol they will pay you to leverage your positions

stocks are gonna rocket!

[1714245529]

1714245529

[1714245529]

1714245529

[1714245529]

1714245529

[cypherdoc]

thank gaud for Sallie Mae, not to mention Fannie Mae:

[cypherdoc]

you can really see they had no choice back in 2008:

[cypherdoc]

negative interest rates coming right up:

lol they will pay you to leverage your positions

Bitcoins stocks are gonna rocket!

[adamstgBit]

everything is gana rocket.

unless everyone defaults on loans that pay themselves!??

this is nuts

[User705]

negative interest rates coming right up:

Hasn't Japan lived with Negative rates for a while.  What are your thoughts on that cypher?

[TookDk]

I think BOTH bitcoin and gold are good long term investments.
I think it is wise to have investments spread out, personal I hold both silver,gold and bitcoins.

The two major differences (imo):
Bitcoin is extremely easy to move / convert.
Gold has an instinctive value.

[cypherdoc]

negative interest rates coming right up:

Hasn't Japan lived with Negative rates for a while.  What are your thoughts on that cypher?

0 isn't negative:  http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/interest-rate

of course i don't like it but what i don't like is irrelevant.  i think they are just as reckless as our Fed.  they even call it QQE.  the only reason the USD is stable is b/c all countries are debasing at somewhat the same rate.  it's a race to the bottom.  the graphs i've displayed above show that clearly something changed in 2008.  sound money guys like me hate that the Fed and the BOJ did what they did.  however, i can't argue with the fact that they were successful in staving off a catastrophe in the banking system.  i for one, think that would've been great; i stood ready to plow loads of fiat into the stock and bond markets if they had let them clear.  it would not have been Armageddon as they'd like us to believe.  not to be, unfortunately.

Tim Geithner was in the news recently.  he, Bernanke, Greenspan, and Paulson typify the corrupt elite in charge of this country.  i went back and checked my recollection of the events surrounding 2008 just to remind myself why i think what they did was wrong.  here is a snippet of what he said at the time:

Q: When that next crisis comes, what's your advice to your successor?

A: Overwhelming force as quickly as you can on a massive scale. If you do that – again, it seems counterintuitive – if you do that, you're much more likely to protect people from mass unemployment, much more likely to get the economy growing again, much more likely to end up costing the taxpayer less money, and in some ways, you're more able to force the restructuring you need.

If things are too fragile, it's hard to force the restructuring you need to make the system stronger. You should use overwhelming force and plan for a long war because these things are hard and they take a long time to heal. Don't stop too soon.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/05/12/timothy-geithner-on-stress-tests-and-lessons-learned-in-the-financial-crisis/8937033/

what that attitude tells me is that the Fed is a one trick pony; print money.  and at that time, they threw all caution to the wind; MASSIVELY.  they threw trillions at the debt deflation.  hence the spikes in the monetary graphs.  and it worked.  at least for now.  but at what cost?  more than a doubling of the national debt?  the highest wealth disparity since 1929?  i think there's going to be hell to pay at some point.  the question is when.  could be now, could be later, who knows.  clearly that debt is unpayable.  they can only print to keep the interest payments coming.

this is why i like Bitcoin.  it's its own self contained financial system that is totally firewalled off from the fiat system.  you could run an entire economy off it if given a chance.  and it could actually save the fiat system if they pegged it to Bitcoin as a world reserve currency.  obviously they don't want to do that to the USD of course.  but they may have to.  eventually.

[El Cabron]

I do not understand why you are not long term long gold. You see the money supply going way up and it is only the velocity that is going down. Once velocity even gets back near to normal inflation levels will be insane.

Sure gold could lose 70% of it's value before then, but fiat is dead....


 

[User705]

Gold is supremely impractical in the modern world.  Bitcoin solves every problem that gold solves and even some that gold can't solve.

[adamstgBit]

i'm thinking of starting a coin collection when price falls another 20-30%

why not.

goat has a point fiat is dead.

[Adrian-x]

I've had this feeling before, sell Bitcoin buy gold (I think the last time it was in December 2012, selling out Bitcoin at the bottom to buy gold at the top.) I'm going to resist the urge this time, well until we get TCPIP teleporters.

[secousa]

Gold is supremely impractical in the modern world.  Bitcoin solves every problem that gold solves and even some that gold can't solve.

There is gold in the device you used to type your response. Gold is impractical?

[El Cabron]

Gold is supremely impractical in the modern world.  Bitcoin solves every problem that gold solves and even some that gold can't solve.

fiat is dead as they have printed up too much and people will lose faith in it. people will then go back to something else, will nations use some new crypto coin to do large international trade? fuck no, they will use oil or gold. gold is a perfect for this, everyone knows where it is, what it is and how much it is worth.


there is no way in the world nigeria will take btc for their oil or ukrain will take btc for their wheat. they will not want govt debt but something real over the last 6000 years, they will want gold!

btc can break or fork or get cracked at anytime. btc is way too new to be the new world standard, in 100 years? or 50 years? maybe... in 5 years? no fucking way.

if we have a 2008 again and cant fix it by printing up money they will just keep printing until they either do buy some more time or print forever.



i love crypto, its is great but Gold is not worthless like some people keep wanting it to be.


its crazy that gold is worth anything at all, but where there is nothing else for international trade, it is what we will have to use.

not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.


anyway gold will far outlive any fiat around the world today.... and keep in mind btc could break and become worthless at any second... dont keep all your money in one basket... you need some gold in case the massive massive fail that we know will happen happens...  (get some silver too)


goat out...

[Adrian-x]

there is no way in the world nigeria will take btc for their oil or ukrain will take btc for their wheat. they will not want govt debt but something real over the last 6000 years, they will want gold!

The problem with gold is you know where it is. If say the BRICs start a new trading block and have a new version of the IMF backed by gold, managing gold reserves becomes a problem if you settle trade deficits in gold and need to transport it by ship the opposing PTB can just sink that ship and destabilize the banking in the trading block. Crypto solves this problem.

The other solution is you keep it with the equivalent of the FED, and over time risk that they lease it out and you are back at the distinction manipulated banking system you tried to escape. So why not just stick with the existing system.

Hello there is this new system! as you say it may break, but if it doesn't, wow it's going to be big.
Unfortunately the benefactors are rather distrusting of it.

[El Cabron]

there is no way in the world nigeria will take btc for their oil or ukrain will take btc for their wheat. they will not want govt debt but something real over the last 6000 years, they will want gold!

The problem with gold is you know where it is. If say the BRICs start a new trading block and have a new version of the IMF backed by gold, managing gold reserves becomes a problem if you settle trade deficits in gold and need to transport it by ship the opposing PTB can just sink that ship and destabilize the banking in the trading block. Crypto solves this problem.

The other solution is you keep it with the equivalent of the FED, and over time risk that they lease it out and you are back at the distinction manipulated banking system you tried to escape. So why not just stick with the existing system.

Hello there is this new system! as you say it may break, but if it doesn't, wow it's going to be big.
Unfortunately the benefactors are rather distrusting of it.

my point is, there is no way in the near future nation states will use crypto coins for international trade. since they will not use crypto what will they use?

yes gold is not perfect but it has worked pretty damn well for 6000 years.

what will happen in 50 years? well that is a whole different game... but in 50 years im pretty sure im going to be dead...

[wachtwoord]

not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.

There's one big flaw in your reasoning: I'm pretty sure most people don't have a safe and secure way to hold physical gold (especially 5% of their net worth). People cry about the security of crypto but to me it's a hell better to hold when looking at storage costs and costs of theft or loss. I'm sure we agree holding paper gold is no substitute.

Where am I (or most other people for that matter) going to safely store physical bullion?

[wachtwoord]

not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.

There's one big flaw in your reasoning: I'm pretty sure most people don't have a safe and secure way to hold physical gold (especially 5% of their net worth). People cry about the security of crypto but to me it's a hell better to hold when looking at storage costs and costs of theft or loss. I'm sure we agree holding paper gold is no substitute.

Where am I (or most other people for that matter) going to safely store physical bullion?

Let's say you have a net worth of 1 million usd (most people have way less). 5% is 50000usd. 50000usd is around 4 small rolls of 10*1 oz gold maple leafs
http://www.apmex.com/product/79051/2014-1-oz-gold-maple-leafs-10-coin-mintdirect-tube

Don't tell me you won't be able to hide them safely somewhere. I can understand this argument for silver but gold is not bulky.

Yes, I'm going to tell you that. You need to feel extremely secure you really own your property to say the same. Also, how would you move them to another country if you needed to leave your current one?

[Adrian-x]

my point is, there is no way in the near future nation states will use crypto coins for international trade. since they will not use crypto what will they use?

I think you have more than 50 years if you avoid protesting in the streets over the next 15 years.  

Your point is probably correct, but I'm thinking crypro's are the catalyst to an emerging Type I monetary system away from the Type O on the Kardashev scale nations are the old paradigm, we'll soon be all globally identified.

[thezerg]

Gold is supremely impractical in the modern world.  Bitcoin solves every problem that gold solves and even some that gold can't solve.

fiat is dead as they have printed up too much and people will lose faith in it. people will then go back to something else, will nations use some new crypto coin to do large international trade? fuck no, they will use oil or gold. gold is a perfect for this, everyone knows where it is, what it is and how much it is worth.


there is no way in the world nigeria will take btc for their oil or ukrain will take btc for their wheat. they will not want govt debt but something real over the last 6000 years, they will want gold!

btc can break or fork or get cracked at anytime. btc is way too new to be the new world standard, in 100 years? or 50 years? maybe... in 5 years? no fucking way.

if we have a 2008 again and cant fix it by printing up money they will just keep printing until they either do buy some more time or print forever.



i love crypto, its is great but Gold is not worthless like some people keep wanting it to be.


its crazy that gold is worth anything at all, but where there is nothing else for international trade, it is what we will have to use.

not holding 5% of your net wealth in gold is just foolish if you ask me. im about the 10% mark and think thats a healthy place to be.


anyway gold will far outlive any fiat around the world today.... and keep in mind btc could break and become worthless at any second... dont keep all your money in one basket... you need some gold in case the massive massive fail that we know will happen happens...  (get some silver too)


goat out...

Very well said.

You may be right for a few country-sized slow moving commodities deals but physical transportation of gold will always be difficult, inconvenient and extremely inefficient in this world of rapid prototyping of multiple iterations of device case or PCB assembly sampling sent next day air because the engineers waiting for samples are paid a lot more per hour than the cost to ship.  

A near-instant international currency is a modern necessity for the millions of daily smaller deals.  It would be a major competitive advantage compared to a company that insists on delaying for physical bullion receipt.  There are likely to be 3 choices:

1. Yuan -- but the entire free world will have trust problems and problems conferring first-among-equals status to China.  They would have to have no other choice.  
2. 100% backed E-gold with distributed repositories.  Assay teams from all member countries endlessly touring each other's facilities, counting bars, slicing to verify no tungsten.
3. Bitcoin

If the petrodollar melted down tomorrow, I think bitcoin would be an extremely hard sell.  But let's say 5 years from now BTC's "market cap" is worth 10 to 1000x what it is today and is carrying 2% of international payments or more.  Given that base, Bitcoin could easily become the next major international trade currency.  But it won't be binary... just like there IS trade/settlement in gold and Yuan today.

Why do you imagine the PBOC, controlling an economy of ~10 trillion cares so much about a tiny technology moving a few million a day, if that?