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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1977238 times)
Melbustus
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June 18, 2014, 01:59:30 AM
 #8741

... that might just be because bitcoin is only a few years old ...

^ Yup.

I read that report. I think the authors lack appreciation for statistical significance.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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June 18, 2014, 02:13:01 AM
 #8742


leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

Well there Mr. 'Bigger Picture', the $500 I spent on $2.50 BTC instead of buying a high end vid card is now worth $120000.  Actually more like $200k given that I limited my selling to the last spike.  You going to tell me that you mined 200 BTC with a single high end card over the timeframe that you've been involved?

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?

I'd say:  "You are as clueless as Cypherdoc."  But I'd also tell them to be patient because it will very likely happen.  As soon as the the dead-ender small time miners are run out of the system and the real players have near total monopolization.

Poor Cyperdoc can stare right at the hashrate chart that started this conversation and completely miss the 'bigger picture'.  What a buffoon.


Please prove your claims.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Thanks!  Grin

Notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing to 'prove' in the text you've quoted, people should consider themselves kind of lucky that I've for years offer my insights honestly and free of charge without a lot of paid newsletter bullshit.  Almost without exception my assertions include phrases like 'I think', 'in my opinion', etc, etc.

Some people who listened to my arguments for buying back in late 2011 have done very well.  In fairness, the same can be said for those who listened to Cypherdoc's.  If he counseled his subscribers to mine as a strategy to maximize their profits, that's a fail.  But just as he is lucky for the 'rising tide floating all boats', so would it be for his subscribers.  The main difference between me and Cypherdoc will be what we see if the shit really hits the fan.  More likely Bitcoin an the mainstream real-world will gently collide and the effects of the impacts will be more nuanced.  In some ways it is even more important to consider a range of hypothesis and match them against direct observation in order take full advantage of trends.

Words of wisdom for anyone who wants to listen:  Be careful about following a zealot into any adventure.



In case you missed your own words. Prove it.

On another note: I don't think I should consider myself lucky because you choose to offer your insights honestly and freely. That is your choice. Being grateful for that is a non-issue here (at least for me it is).

BTW nice cheap shot at Cypher lol although not warranted. He chose to charge for his insight (even though he has shared most of it here anyway freely) you chose to share, don't expect people "should" consider themselves lucky. You should consider that it was your choice and leave it at that.

You like tooting your own horn?  Grin Grin Grin Sometimes I do it but I don't say anyone should do or not do something because of what I've done or not done. That's almost like an entitlement mentality. Almost.  Wink

███████████████████████████████████████

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███████████████████████████████████████

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tvbcof
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June 18, 2014, 02:34:31 AM
 #8743


In case you missed your own words. Prove it.

Just because I'm in a good mood and someone dares to doubt my integrity...

Code:
...
2011-11-27 -xxx-,99.4942400000,BTC,217.9918798400,USD,1.3079512791,USD,99.4942400000,BTC,219.2998311191,USD
...
2011-12-04 -xxx-,94.0000000000,BTC,251.2620000000,USD,1.5075720000,USD,94.0000000000,BTC,252.7695720000,USD
...

There's plenty more where that came from due to the way exchanges work, but that should pretty much get you where you need to be.  I think that red (embarrassment) and green (envy) creates kind of a yellowish hue.


smoothie
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June 18, 2014, 02:36:56 AM
 #8744


In case you missed your own words. Prove it.

Just because I'm in a good mood and someone dares to doubt my integrity...

Code:
...
2011-11-27 -xxx-,99.4942400000,BTC,217.9918798400,USD,1.3079512791,USD,99.4942400000,BTC,219.2998311191,USD
...
2011-12-04 -xxx-,94.0000000000,BTC,251.2620000000,USD,1.5075720000,USD,94.0000000000,BTC,252.7695720000,USD
...

There's plenty more where that came from due to the way exchanges work, but that should pretty much get you where you need to be.  I think that red (embarrassment) and green (envy) creates kind of a yellowish hue.



LOL so you did make a claim worth attempting to prove?

Nice.

Not that I doubt your integrity, but what is to convince me you didn't just copy past that from some other random source or just type it in?

Got anyone to back up your claim? Just curious.

 Grin

███████████████████████████████████████

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    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
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║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
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 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
tvbcof
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June 18, 2014, 02:44:05 AM
 #8745

...
Got anyone to back up your claim? Just curious.

 Grin

I was pretty liberal in comments on this forum with information about my strategy and operations back when I was a buyer IIRC, and it's not my style to delete old posts.  Knock yourself out if it's that important to you.  Else I guess you'll have to get me into a deposition or something.


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June 18, 2014, 02:44:12 AM
 #8746

relevant post that I ran into while researching another subject

Cross-posting...

I suggest ignore. tvbcof's positions are so bizarre they don't make a lick of sense to a rational mind. When you point out the inconsistencies of his positions in clear terms a 10yr old could understand, he just ignores you and moves on to the next nonsensical rant. ... If there are any paid disrupters in this thread, he's it. If he's not being paid to post in this thread then he needs to seek counseling.   

He is not paid. This is the illogic of a lefty communist. You can't reason with them because their brain stem is not functioning. Their brains are operative and they can make semi-coherent arguments and even appear to be reasonably intelligent and articulate, yet always the logical consistency is absent.

I think it is because their philosophy is lacking an understanding of thermodynamics and the fact that only a free market of competing actors can optimize (anneal) a dynamic system. He doesn't understand that nature's optimization algorithm is simulated annealing. This is why if ice is cooled slowly, then there are less cracks because the local molecules have more time to find optimum structure.

What a lefty doesn't understand is that no entity can top-down manage resources better than the local competing actors (some perform worse and some perform better and thus the system learns). There is no way that the Feds can monitor every dynamic opportunity and problem experienced by 300 million people every day and decide on the appropriate actions in real-time. Thus every edict and requirement from the Feds is stomping on and preventing the free market of local actors from optimizing with the most degrees-of-freedom.

In the Economics Devastation thread, I explained with respected citations that degrees-of-freedom is known to be equivalent to potential energy.

In your car had no reverse gear (one less degree-of-freedom), then you need to drive in a circle (e.g. around the block) in order to go reverse, i.e. much more inefficient. Government makes the free market adaptation and optimization less efficient.

When government grows from 12% in 1930 to over 75% of GDP (once compliance with all regulations is factored in) as it is now, then we reach negative marginal utility of debt, which means adding new debt actually shrinks the real GDP. Debt reduces degrees-of-freedom too, because everyone and his half brother copies each other, because resources are declared to be free.

As I've mentioned, I'm a lefty and don't really mind if society gives people a hand in limited times of need.  Of course many people will take advantage of things (e.g., 'bleeding the beast') so in order to make the best use of limited resources, we do need to check up on people who are on the Government dole.  Else we end up with single women claiming more dependents than they have and folks like Cliven Bundy claiming special rights and needs.

You attack the symptoms and not the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is the power vacuum of democracy, i.e. the government grows without bound. The only way to fix that is to deny the ability of the government to tax, so that the citizens have a (individual opt-out) veto against unjust taxation. We must defund the beast. And thus why I am working on such a technological solution.

You have no idea whom you've been debating with. If you knew, you'd feel pretty stupid for stereotyping me the way you did upthread.

anyway, lets move away from this meaningless discourse and talk about the bigger things in life, such as the end-game of bitcoin or the various governments around the world. What is Bitcoin without anonymity? Would it lead to the globalists being able to track every transaction we make? Is this the cashless society that Revelations foreshadows?
Are regional states tending towards regional central authorities (ie NAFTA, MERCOSUR, Arab League, ASEAN, etc etc)? That seems like the logical intermediary step before commanding all of them. This makes me think about how mining currently is in Bitcoin. Controlling any two top mining pools will lead to a >51% hold on influence over this network. What would this mean for Bitcoin if any of TPTB (if they don't already) had control?


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June 18, 2014, 02:49:29 AM
 #8747

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine, at least that I recall.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

tvbcof is afraid of Bitcoin. That's easy to see by his preference for gold. The difference between us is that I think the bull had just begun while he's clearly dumped a significant portion of his holdings probably never to get them back.

Otoh, I wonder just how much he's really transacted in Bitcoin given his misunderstanding of how addresses work. For those interested, tvbcof was under the impression that by entering one wrong character into a receiving address it would result in an irretrievable loss of Bitcoin by sending them off into the ether sphere to someone else's address. I don't know about you but before the very first time I sent a bitcoin I researched the ramifications of just that; entering a wrong character. That's just good money management and intellectual curiosity. Most of you know that a mistyped address  won't take as the address has a checksum built into the last 4 bytes making this impossible. You'll also note that when you right click on an address to copy it automatically selects the entire thing so you don't leave behind any characters when you paste; yet another safeguard.  You need to know these things if you're moving bitcoin around. The fact that tvbcof didn't know these things brings into question his claimed experience in transacting at all .

I had to clear this misunderstanding up for him just a scant couple months ago. And he calls himself a computer guy?

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June 18, 2014, 03:07:23 AM
 #8748

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.
...

I guess your subscribers have a better recollection than you.  Perhaps getting fucked in the ass when trying to mine sharpens ones total recall abilities.

But let's say that you didn't recommend mining as you claim.  Then you are doing one thing and counseling your subscribers to do another.  Not that such a thing is unheard of in the world of paid investment gurus of course.  At least in this case it was not (or 'would not' in this hypothetical) be the subscribers who got reamed.  Yet.  That is a bit unusual and laudable.

Or would be laudable, but given that it was only yesterday that I corrected your misunderstandings about the economics of mining you would have a hard time arguing that by not counseling to mine while you yourself were going whole hog on it you were trying to do your subscribers right.


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June 18, 2014, 03:07:44 AM
 #8749

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine, at least that I recall.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

Not true, you referred subs to HashFast. They're now in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and I have to fight tooth and nail with them and the DOJ to get back what was promised to me. I'm still optimistic but I'm weary after 10 months of this.

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June 18, 2014, 03:11:49 AM
 #8750

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine, at least that I recall.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

Not true, you referred subs to HashFast. They're now in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and I have to fight tooth and nail with them and the DOJ to get back what was promised to me.

Here's a little something I learned in childhood Cyph:  If you don't tell lies then you don't have to try to remember which ones you told to who, mitigate the subsequent damage, etc, etc.

 - edit:  BTW, good call on getting back to basics Vokain.  We really do need to be analyzing the risks, warnings, etc or centralization and related failure modes.  Unfortunately it's just so much fun to troll.  And by Cypherdoc's own admission that was exactly the purpose for his starting this particular thread.


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June 18, 2014, 03:16:01 AM
 #8751

...
Got anyone to back up your claim? Just curious.

 Grin

I was pretty liberal in comments on this forum with information about my strategy and operations back when I was a buyer IIRC, and it's not my style to delete old posts.  Knock yourself out if it's that important to you.  Else I guess you'll have to get me into a deposition or something.



I'll take that as a no.

███████████████████████████████████████

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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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cypherdoc
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June 18, 2014, 03:18:38 AM
 #8752

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine, at least that I recall.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

Not true, you referred subs to HashFast. They're now in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and I have to fight tooth and nail with them and the DOJ to get back what was promised to me. I'm still optimistic but I'm weary after 10 months of this.

Now that is certainly true. And that is truly a  black eye i deserve although it was an honest mistake in character judgment. It wasn't so much a recommendation to mine but that if one wanted to mine they could buy from what I thought would be a good company.

As we see, many early adopters have made the same mistake like Andreas with Neo & Bee, Roger with mtgox,  and Tuur with CoinTerra & Neo Bee. Nonetheless, I do feel bad about Hashfast.
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June 18, 2014, 03:26:41 AM
 #8753

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

tvbcof is afraid of Bitcoin. That's easy to see by his preference for gold. The difference between us is that I think the bull had just begun while he's clearly dumped a significant portion of his holdings probably never to get them back.

Otoh, I wonder just how much he's really transacted in Bitcoin given his misunderstanding of how addresses work. For those interested, tvbcof was under the impression that by entering one wrong character into a receiving address it would result in an irretrievable loss of Bitcoin by sending them off into the ether sphere to someone else's address. I don't know about you but before the very first time I sent a bitcoin I researched the ramifications of just that; entering a wrong character. That's just good money management and intellectual curiosity. Most of you know that a mistyped address  won't take as the address has a checksum built into the last 4 bytes making this impossible. You'll also note that when you right click on an address to copy it automatically selects the entire thing so you don't leave behind any characters when you paste; yet another safeguard.  You need to know these things if you're moving bitcoin around. The fact that tvbcof didn't know these things brings into question his claimed experience in transacting at all .

I had to clear this misunderstanding up for him just a scant couple months ago.


That's the best you got?  Yes, it's true that I was under the impression that Bitcoin addresses did not use a checksum.  I understand what a checksum is and how they tend to be constructed.  I just read somewhere long ago that Bitcoin didn't use them and that was wrong.  I didn't read the source code, and I find it highly doubtful that you did either.

BTW, it was in this conversation (and others) that our dear friend Cypherdoc suggests that one's deep storage be accessible via fungus wallet running on Android OS.  Genius!

As I've said before, if I had only gold and no BTC, I'd be buying BTC.  If I had only BTC and no gold, I'd be buying gold.  Such concepts just don't resonate with the fundamentalism mind.  I understand this so, no bust.



Who's lying now?

the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.
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June 18, 2014, 04:57:28 AM
 #8754


Who's lying now?

Since your memory seems to be failing you, the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.

You didn't specify 'small amounts of spendable Bitcoin'.  You said you access cold storage from your Android in a response to my saying that, yes, bitcoin hoards can be made secure at the expense of making them as user un-friendly as one's gold hoard and that many people have come to lament Bitcoin's 'ease of use' when they get their stash ripped off.

My point was, again, that I sleep well at night because even I cannot get to most of my stash without a bunch of planning and time.  Just like with my gold.  And this mitigates some of Bitcoin's advantages.  You tried to downplay that by saying that you could send me BTC within a minute from your cold storage through the magic of Android and a piece of paper in your wallet.  It makes no sense if you are talking about trivial sums.  And it is kinda stupid if one is talking about large sums.


tvbcof
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June 18, 2014, 04:59:02 AM
 #8755

...
Got anyone to back up your claim? Just curious.

 Grin

I was pretty liberal in comments on this forum with information about my strategy and operations back when I was a buyer IIRC, and it's not my style to delete old posts.  Knock yourself out if it's that important to you.  Else I guess you'll have to get me into a deposition or something.


I'll take that as a no.

Correct.

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June 18, 2014, 05:03:37 AM
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Who's lying now?

Since your memory seems to be failing you, the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.

You didn't specify 'small amounts of spendable Bitcoin'.  You said you access cold storage from your Android in a response to my saying that, yes, bitcoin hoards can be made secure at the expense of making them as user un-friendly as one's gold hoard and that many people have come to lament Bitcoin's 'ease of use' when they get their stash ripped off.

My point was, again, that I sleep well at night because even I cannot get to most of my stash without a bunch of planning and time.  Just like with my gold.  And this mitigates some of Bitcoin's advantages.  You tried to downplay that by saying that you could send me BTC within a minute from your cold storage through the magic of Android and a piece of paper in your wallet.  It makes no sense if you are talking about trivial sums.  And it is kinda stupid if one is talking about large sums.



if you can find the links back to the discussion i'm quite sure i made it clear that i was not talking about accessing large sums of cold storage BTC with my Android as you are trying to imply to everyone here.  this is just another example of you twisting words and meanings in an attempt to straw man an argument into your favor.  you do this shit constantly.
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June 18, 2014, 04:01:31 PM
 #8757

Gallippi and Pair have to be considered some of our community's greatest promoters.  This:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-ncaa-college-football-bowl-sponsorship-bitpay/

what we need to do is get a long line of about 20 seats side by side with 7 ppl holding the letters "BITCOIN" in the center with Bitcoin logos flanking each side.  i'm sure we'd get several TV shots with millions of viewers.

To the Moon.
tvbcof
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June 18, 2014, 07:55:26 PM
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...
you always love to sound bearish yet you cling to your coins.  this thread was made to torment gold bugs like you; i'm glad it's working.

As I was arguing almost three years ago, one need not actually hold all that many BTC to speculate.  This because if Bitcoin actually 'goes', then it will go much higher than we've sen yet.  And a relatively small stash will be enough money to last a lifetime.

As I also mentioned, picking up more BTC that one needs has significant utility for only, say, double the risk to one's outlay.  The reason for this being that if Bitcoin 'partially goes', then one can do quite well and cancel out the risk of holding a risky asset but STILL have enough to take advantage of a conflagration if we are lucky enough to have such a thing in the future.

I choose the latter strategy and at 100x profit I started to execute on it.  That's all.

As for being 'bullish' or 'bearish', I try to simply keep an eye toward all possibilities and call out factors which might be influencing past, present, and future events.  As I say regularly, I think the odds of a 'conflagration' are higher now than they every have been.  If we are lucky enough to see one it will be critical to understand the event in order to best capitalize.  If one closes one's eyes to every possibility other than it being 'a march to the pre-ordained role as the worlds reserve currency' it is very probably that one will regret having done so.  Or equally, if one follows some zealot who is disposed to that pattern of thought.


tvbcof
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June 18, 2014, 08:29:50 PM
 #8759

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.
...

I guess your subscribers have a better recollection than you.  Perhaps getting fucked in the ass when trying to mine sharpens ones total recall abilities.

But let's say that you didn't recommend mining as you claim.  Then you are doing one thing and counseling your subscribers to do another.  Not that such a thing is unheard of in the world of paid investment gurus of course.  At least in this case it was not (or 'would not' in this hypothetical) be the subscribers who got reamed.  Yet.  That is a bit unusual and laudable.

Or would be laudable, but given that it was only yesterday that I corrected your misunderstandings about the economics of mining you would have a hard time arguing that by not counseling to mine while you yourself were going whole hog on it you were trying to do your subscribers right.


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June 18, 2014, 08:52:33 PM
 #8760

...

Otoh, I wonder just how much he's really transacted in Bitcoin given his misunderstanding of how addresses work. For those interested, tvbcof was under the impression that by entering one wrong character into a receiving address it would result in an irretrievable loss of Bitcoin by sending them off into the ether sphere to someone else's address. I don't know about you but before the very first time I sent a bitcoin I researched the ramifications of just that; entering a wrong character. That's just good money management and intellectual curiosity. Most of you know that a mistyped address  won't take as the address has a checksum built into the last 4 bytes making this impossible. You'll also note that when you right click on an address to copy it automatically selects the entire thing so you don't leave behind any characters when you paste; yet another safeguard.  You need to know these things if you're moving bitcoin around. The fact that tvbcof didn't know these things brings into question his claimed experience in transacting at all .

I had to clear this misunderstanding up for him just a scant couple months ago. And he calls himself a computer guy?


That reminds me of when you were using the '$' unit identifier on the unitless USDX metric.  Quite unbecoming of a macro-economic guru who confidently predicts that BTC will be the new worlds reserve currency.

I don't recall your ever thanking me for inducing you to finally stop embarrassing yourself on a daily basis.  Possibly I just missed it though.


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