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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806725 times)
smoothie
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June 17, 2014, 08:47:08 PM
 #8741

...
and fyi, i've been mining since 2011, first with gpu's, and then moved to asics so i understand quite well the economic incentives involved.  and for that matter, it's been incredibly lucrative mostly b/c of the price increase since then.  i've never heard you say that you mine so i'd keep my mouth shut b/c you'll never understand it completely w/o having done it.
...

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

I could simply buy a days worth of total mining production for the cost of a quasi-respectable mining set-up back when I was getting going (and we are more-or-less contemporaries if my memory serves.)  If I sunk all of my speculative funds into mining I could only get BTC at a relatively slow rate, and if the price went up, the rate would be even slower as other retards desperately joined in.  And tending to a mining cluster would quickly start to resemble work (and I was sick of doing that sort of work and wanted to take a break for a while.)  Since hodling and mining were both going to pay off only on a BTC price increase hodling made a hell of a lot more sense to me.



i agree that buying BTC straight up is the fastest way to accumulate and that is precisely what i did back in 2011.  but not everyone has the resources or extra cash lying around to do that.  don't forget many miners are college kids or workers in places where they get free electricity.  also, there are plenty of professionals mining in places round the world where electricity is cheap and plentiful.  those are ideal places to mine.  

mining represents diversification.  you forget that miners are building out the infrastructure that is meant to replace the banking system.  its very attractive to participate in that process if you have the right conditions.  i said before, i mine to understand the psychology behind the miner, but its become more than that.  with time, i have realized that  i am one of them.  what you fail to understand, as an unprincipled, amoral, opportunistic, socialist boomer that you are, is that there is more to Bitcoin mining than just making a fast buck.  this is a Movement.  the straight up exponential rise in the hashrate is a reflection of pent up frustration with the current fiat banking system. tech savvy entrepreneurs are pouring millions into a new system meant to replace the banks.  ppl like that concept and want to help in whatever way they can besides just buying BTC.  it's an investment in knowledge accumulation as well.  if i can understand what it takes to be a successful miner, perhaps one day when the system stabilizes after having become widespread, i can be a permanent part of a an infrastructure with more certainty.  mining is a skill set that is necessary to truly understand Bitcoin.  i also see this enthusiasm in the threads of ppl wanting to set up full nodes.  they are willing to contribute freely to increase the network robustness even though there is no immediate return.  but deep down they know that if they can help perpetuate the network they will profit when the price eventually rises again.

watching videos of the early gpu miners back in 2011 made my jaw drop.  i could not believe the enthusiasm behind these guys in their garages and basements.  and how many there were.  i knew i needed to get involved to experience what it was they were feeling. turns out only one thing drives ppl like that, and that is money.  not stocks, not bonds, not gold, not assurance contracts, not smart contracts, not anything except liquid money.  this is why i'm beginning to think that the blockchain will only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money. nothing may be able to incentivize a POW blockchain dependent on mining, like BTC has.  the only chance those other assets have is to link themselves to the Bitcoin network, security wise.  or else they're doomed to hacks or centralized intervention. but i'm not sure about this concept yet and that is besides the point.  

as miners, we're like rabid dogs; our muscles are bulging and tense, our pupils are dilated, the blood vessels on the whites of our eyes are engorged, we have saliva running out the sides of our mouths, and we're straining at the end of a leash trying to get our paws on BTC.  you can feel the intensity and competitiveness when you go to the Hardware forum.  when i first get a new batch of miners i work days, nights, and weekends to get them up and running and fine tuned to be as efficient as possible.  and this is btwn my day job responsibilities.  and that is after all the months of research in the Hardware forum in preparation for their arrival.  we are an interesting bunch that's for sure.  but it's fun to be an admin.  to gain control over your machines, connect them up to a global network and watch the software run it's magic. it's stimulating to see my machines hook up to 40, 50, or 100 other machines around the globe all the while communicating information seamlessly. i love consulting with other miners with my questions.  mostly, we're a collegial bunch trying to help each other out. it's strategic, it's challenging, and there's risk.  for a long while i was a solo miner and it's hard to describe hitting a full block reward. it's a beautiful sight to watch the stratum protocol hash away line by line trying to hit the target.  you can see the equitability in a system based on randomness right there on your screen.  Slush even hid away some cute messages for those hashes that exceed a certain difficulty just to keep us amused. there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; not to mention that they're worth a crapload of money.  i like tinkering, i like doing the math, i like learning linux, and i like the work (unlike you) to make it all happen.  guys like me will ensure that the network never fails. and there are legions of us.  i feel i'm contributing to a new innovative opt-out system that can change the world.

these are the intangible factors that go into the power of mining that only true miners understand and that will always befuddle peabrains like you.

Cypher,

I know the exact feeling as I mined several 50 BTC blocks....one of which was mined right before I made this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vqr88Q-Dg

Oh that seems like such a long time ago (over 3 years now).

Epic feeling!

 Grin Grin Grin

P.S. and a few bonus videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk3FEYkCvJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MZYQThhMiQ

███████████████████████████████████████

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June 17, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
 #8742

... there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; ...

Cypher,

I know the exact feeling as I mined several 50 BTC blocks....one of which was mined right before I made this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vqr88Q-Dg

Oh that seems like such a long time ago (over 3 years now).

Epic feeling!

 Grin Grin Grin

It can be amusing to listen to old codgers and their war stories dredged up from the fog of distant conflicts.  Some Vietnam veterans got off on shooting a gook while it failed to give others enduring wood.  It's kind of an individual thing I guess.

The thing is that it's pretty pathetic to be basing almost any current strategy on a world which is long gone and ain't coming back (absent a miracle change to POW in Bitcoin-land.)

Anyway, thanks both of you for protecting my speculative investment back in the neolithic times.  I was relying on bitches like yourselves and I'm glad you came through for me.

 - edit:  IIRC BTC had stabilized at around $5 when the 50->25 shift happened.  So 50*$5 is like $250 bucks.  Yawn.  I'd blow that at dinner, and quite a bit more than that at Tradehill-I until they closed up shop which marked the end of my buying.


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June 17, 2014, 09:17:03 PM
 #8743

... there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; ...

Cypher,

I know the exact feeling as I mined several 50 BTC blocks....one of which was mined right before I made this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vqr88Q-Dg

Oh that seems like such a long time ago (over 3 years now).

Epic feeling!

 Grin Grin Grin


It can be amusing to listen to old codgers and their war stories dredged up from the fog of distant conflicts.  Some Vietnam veterans got off on shooting a gook while it failed to give others enduring wood.  It's kind of an individual thing I guess.

The thing is that it's pretty pathetic to be basing almost any current strategy on a world which is long gone and ain't coming back (absent a miracle change to POW in Bitcoin-land.)

Anyway, thanks both of you for protecting my speculative investment back in the neolithic times.  I was relying on bitches like yourselves and I'm glad you came through for me.

 - edit:  IIRC BTC had stabilized at around $5 when the 50->25 shift happened.  So 50*$5 is like $250 bucks.  Yawn.  I'd blow that at dinner, and quite a bit more than that at Tradehill-I until they closed up shop which marked the end of my buying.



Name calling. Nice.  Grin Grin Grin

Are you 12? LOLz....sticks and stones ....sticks and stones  Roll Eyes

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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

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LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
tvbcof
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June 17, 2014, 09:20:32 PM
 #8744

...
Anyway, thanks both of you for protecting my speculative investment back in the neolithic times.  I was relying on bitches like yourselves and I'm glad you came through for me.
...

Name calling. Nice.  Grin Grin Grin

Are you 12? LOLz....sticks and stones ....sticks and stones  Roll Eyes

I meant it simply as a term indicating someone who works for someone else.  Not a name-calling insult as such.  My apologies.


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June 17, 2014, 09:23:53 PM
 #8745

...
Anyway, thanks both of you for protecting my speculative investment back in the neolithic times.  I was relying on bitches like yourselves and I'm glad you came through for me.
...

Name calling. Nice.  Grin Grin Grin

Are you 12? LOLz....sticks and stones ....sticks and stones  Roll Eyes

I meant it simply as a term indicating someone who works for someone else.  Not a name-calling insult as such.  My apologies.



Wow so you call people bitches who work for you? lol Thanks for clearing that up.  Roll Eyes

Hoover up as many BTC as possible...easy to do if you have an unlimited supply of $$$.

Keep the option of dumping them onto the market at any time open like the Sword of Damoclese hanging over the head of anyone who might amass to big a position (and who is not on the 'right side' of the operation.)

That would probably be a good thing for the plebes using the market.  Would suck for people who wish to use it as a medium for storage and transfer of _real_ wealth.

███████████████████████████████████████

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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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June 17, 2014, 09:52:54 PM
 #8746


Hoover up as many BTC as possible...easy to do if you have an unlimited supply of $$$.

Keep the option of dumping them onto the market at any time open like the Sword of Damoclese hanging over the head of anyone who might amass to big a position (and who is not on the 'right side' of the operation.)

That would probably be a good thing for the plebes using the market.  Would suck for people who wish to use it as a medium for storage and transfer of _real_ wealth.

Cool find!  For the benefit of those who don't know the context, the exercise was one of figuring you how the goobmint could attack Bitcoin.  But yes, that's one of the reasons I'm gradually drawing down my stash.  The gov't (and others) seem to have taken my advice so some extent and are a major hodler (you may have heard of the Silk Road thing?)  And recently they are demonstrating a willingness to unload which is fairly critical in leveraging the potential threat of such a thing.

At the time I wrote that I had not dreamed up other more significant threats which I currently visualize.  Some of them guide my strategies these days more than the above.  The most significant shift is that I no longer see it as a big threat that the gov't would threaten to destroy wealth through massive market manipulations (in part because the impacts of such an operation would be transient.)  Now I see the threat more as their being able to be employed in obtaining a fair degree of control of the system and leveraging this control to the determent of all of the market participants.  Mostly by guiding the buildup of infrastructure toward entities which they already have good control of.


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June 17, 2014, 09:55:18 PM
 #8747

... there's something indescribable to solving a block for 50 or 25 BTC all by your lonesome that will go down permanently in history; ...

Cypher,

I know the exact feeling as I mined several 50 BTC blocks....one of which was mined right before I made this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vqr88Q-Dg

Oh that seems like such a long time ago (over 3 years now).

Epic feeling!

 Grin Grin Grin

It can be amusing to listen to old codgers and their war stories dredged up from the fog of distant conflicts.  Some Vietnam veterans got off on shooting a gook while it failed to give others enduring wood.  It's kind of an individual thing I guess.

The thing is that it's pretty pathetic to be basing almost any current strategy on a world which is long gone and ain't coming back (absent a miracle change to POW in Bitcoin-land.)

Anyway, thanks both of you for protecting my speculative investment back in the neolithic times.  I was relying on bitches like yourselves and I'm glad you came through for me.

 - edit:  IIRC BTC had stabilized at around $5 when the 50->25 shift happened.  So 50*$5 is like $250 bucks.  Yawn.  I'd blow that at dinner, and quite a bit more than that at Tradehill-I until they closed up shop which marked the end of my buying.



leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?
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June 17, 2014, 09:59:10 PM
 #8748


Wow so you call people bitches who work for you? lol Thanks for clearing that up.  Roll Eyes


I guess he's a P.I.M.P.

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June 17, 2014, 11:06:03 PM
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leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

Well there Mr. 'Bigger Picture', the $500 I spent on $2.50 BTC instead of buying a high end vid card is now worth $120000.  Actually more like $200k given that I limited my selling to the last spike.  You going to tell me that you mined 200 BTC with a single high end card over the timeframe that you've been involved?

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?

I'd say:  "You are as clueless as Cypherdoc."  But I'd also tell them to be patient because it will very likely happen.  As soon as the the dead-ender small time miners are run out of the system and the real players have near total monopolization.

Poor Cyperdoc can stare right at the hashrate chart that started this conversation and completely miss the 'bigger picture'.  What a buffoon.


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June 17, 2014, 11:15:32 PM
 #8750

some people win the mining game, most won't (those at the bigger tail end of the zipf distribution) and for them it'd make much more sense to buy bitcoins directly. I'd assume that at some point back then, if you were earlier than the others you could mine more than one block with a nice GPU. there's a point of time where on one side it's more profitable to mine and on the other it's more profitable to buy and hold depending on the mining equipment you have relative to what the others have. every jump in mining efficiency (from CPU>GPU and GPU>ASIC) was a window of opportunity for miners to get a leg up on everyone else where it'd be more profitable to mine over buying. however, since the space is so competitive, the window closes quickly.

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Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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June 17, 2014, 11:21:20 PM
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leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

Well there Mr. 'Bigger Picture', the $500 I spent on $2.50 BTC instead of buying a high end vid card is now worth $120000.  Actually more like $200k given that I limited my selling to the last spike.  You going to tell me that you mined 200 BTC with a single high end card over the timeframe that you've been involved?

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?

I'd say:  "You are as clueless as Cypherdoc."  But I'd also tell them to be patient because it will very likely happen.  As soon as the the dead-ender small time miners are run out of the system and the real players have near total monopolization.

Poor Cyperdoc can stare right at the hashrate chart that started this conversation and completely miss the 'bigger picture'.  What a buffoon.



like i said above, the fastest way to accumulate significant amounts of BTC during that time was to buy them.  mining has been profitable as well, just not at the same leverage level.  the education and experience though has been invaluable and allows one to gain a valuable perspective on what's going on.  which you lack.
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June 17, 2014, 11:33:47 PM
 #8752


like i said above, the fastest way to accumulate significant amounts of BTC during that time was to buy them.  mining has been profitable as well, just not at the same leverage level.  the education and experience though has been invaluable and allows one to gain a valuable perspective on what's going on.  which you lack.

Looks like the 'education' and 'experience' gave you tunnel vision which cost you.  I'm happy for you that you found out about Bitcoin at a time when it was nearly impossible to lose money.

Smart people like Vlad mined when it made sense and stopped when a different strategy made more sense.  IIRC he stopped mining about the same time you got things figured out enough to do it.  You can at least be thankful that you had needed some time to figure out computers and ended up buying some BTC outright rather than throwing all your funds into mining.


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June 17, 2014, 11:53:01 PM
 #8753


leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

Well there Mr. 'Bigger Picture', the $500 I spent on $2.50 BTC instead of buying a high end vid card is now worth $120000.  Actually more like $200k given that I limited my selling to the last spike.  You going to tell me that you mined 200 BTC with a single high end card over the timeframe that you've been involved?

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?

I'd say:  "You are as clueless as Cypherdoc."  But I'd also tell them to be patient because it will very likely happen.  As soon as the the dead-ender small time miners are run out of the system and the real players have near total monopolization.

Poor Cyperdoc can stare right at the hashrate chart that started this conversation and completely miss the 'bigger picture'.  What a buffoon.



Please prove your claims.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Thanks!  Grin

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        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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cypherdoc
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June 18, 2014, 12:03:21 AM
 #8754

Yea, tvbcof  is known for constructing straw man attacks.

It's all done to conceal the fact that he's a true Gold bug:

tvbcof=


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June 18, 2014, 01:08:26 AM
 #8755

We're gonna do a BOOM soon.
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June 18, 2014, 01:26:39 AM
 #8756

We're gonna do a BOOM soon.

You mean when the gov sells the SR coins at, near, or above spot?

Did you register to participate in Barry's syndicate?
https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/478930656538660864


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
ActualAdviceBTC
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June 18, 2014, 01:50:47 AM
 #8757

There was an analysis done at the firm I work at that BTC is more correlated with strength in the dollar than with gold... that might just be because bitcoin is only a few years old and gold is still waiting for its glory days though...
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June 18, 2014, 01:51:32 AM
 #8758


leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

Well there Mr. 'Bigger Picture', the $500 I spent on $2.50 BTC instead of buying a high end vid card is now worth $120000.  Actually more like $200k given that I limited my selling to the last spike.  You going to tell me that you mined 200 BTC with a single high end card over the timeframe that you've been involved?

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?

I'd say:  "You are as clueless as Cypherdoc."  But I'd also tell them to be patient because it will very likely happen.  As soon as the the dead-ender small time miners are run out of the system and the real players have near total monopolization.

Poor Cyperdoc can stare right at the hashrate chart that started this conversation and completely miss the 'bigger picture'.  What a buffoon.


Please prove your claims.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Thanks!  Grin

Notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing to 'prove' in the text you've quoted, people should consider themselves kind of lucky that I've for years offer my insights honestly and free of charge without a lot of paid newsletter bullshit.  Almost without exception my assertions include phrases like 'I think', 'in my opinion', etc, etc.

Some people who listened to my arguments for buying back in late 2011 have done very well.  In fairness, the same can be said for those who listened to Cypherdoc's.  If he counseled his subscribers to mine as a strategy to maximize their profits, that's a fail.  But just as he is lucky for the 'rising tide floating all boats', so would it be for his subscribers.  The main difference between me and Cypherdoc will be what we see if the shit really hits the fan.  More likely Bitcoin an the mainstream real-world will gently collide and the effects of the impacts will be more nuanced.  In some ways it is even more important to consider a range of hypothesis and match them against direct observation in order take full advantage of trends.

Words of wisdom for anyone who wants to listen:  Be careful about following a zealot into any adventure.


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June 18, 2014, 01:59:30 AM
 #8759

... that might just be because bitcoin is only a few years old ...

^ Yup.

I read that report. I think the authors lack appreciation for statistical significance.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
smoothie
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LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


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June 18, 2014, 02:13:01 AM
 #8760


leave it to your old stodgy peabrain to miss the bigger picture.  those 50 BTC of smoothie's are worth what now?  $30000?  you're an idiot.

Well there Mr. 'Bigger Picture', the $500 I spent on $2.50 BTC instead of buying a high end vid card is now worth $120000.  Actually more like $200k given that I limited my selling to the last spike.  You going to tell me that you mined 200 BTC with a single high end card over the timeframe that you've been involved?

and to characterize us as working for you?  lol.  some complain the miners control the whole ecosystem.  what do you say to them?

I'd say:  "You are as clueless as Cypherdoc."  But I'd also tell them to be patient because it will very likely happen.  As soon as the the dead-ender small time miners are run out of the system and the real players have near total monopolization.

Poor Cyperdoc can stare right at the hashrate chart that started this conversation and completely miss the 'bigger picture'.  What a buffoon.


Please prove your claims.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Thanks!  Grin

Notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing to 'prove' in the text you've quoted, people should consider themselves kind of lucky that I've for years offer my insights honestly and free of charge without a lot of paid newsletter bullshit.  Almost without exception my assertions include phrases like 'I think', 'in my opinion', etc, etc.

Some people who listened to my arguments for buying back in late 2011 have done very well.  In fairness, the same can be said for those who listened to Cypherdoc's.  If he counseled his subscribers to mine as a strategy to maximize their profits, that's a fail.  But just as he is lucky for the 'rising tide floating all boats', so would it be for his subscribers.  The main difference between me and Cypherdoc will be what we see if the shit really hits the fan.  More likely Bitcoin an the mainstream real-world will gently collide and the effects of the impacts will be more nuanced.  In some ways it is even more important to consider a range of hypothesis and match them against direct observation in order take full advantage of trends.

Words of wisdom for anyone who wants to listen:  Be careful about following a zealot into any adventure.



In case you missed your own words. Prove it.

On another note: I don't think I should consider myself lucky because you choose to offer your insights honestly and freely. That is your choice. Being grateful for that is a non-issue here (at least for me it is).

BTW nice cheap shot at Cypher lol although not warranted. He chose to charge for his insight (even though he has shared most of it here anyway freely) you chose to share, don't expect people "should" consider themselves lucky. You should consider that it was your choice and leave it at that.

You like tooting your own horn?  Grin Grin Grin Sometimes I do it but I don't say anyone should do or not do something because of what I've done or not done. That's almost like an entitlement mentality. Almost.  Wink

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           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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