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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1808481 times)
solex
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January 12, 2014, 08:44:47 AM
 #7361

Great find. I was a gold bug until I discovered Bitcoin, but this is almost enough to make me a gold bug again!

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molecular
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January 12, 2014, 08:48:31 AM
 #7362

Great find. I was a gold bug until I discovered Bitcoin, but this is almost enough to make me a gold bug again!


hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.

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January 12, 2014, 09:47:32 AM
 #7363

hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
I think this is a very clever tactic.

Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..

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January 12, 2014, 09:50:47 AM
 #7364

hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
I think this is a very clever tactic.

Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..

Is the trend increasing or decreasing in usability of gold in the future?
this is my concern Sad

currently I'm thinking that the more gold goes down in price, the more gold will be used
...possible rebound after that point?

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January 12, 2014, 12:29:41 PM
 #7365

Great find. I was a gold bug until I discovered Bitcoin, but this is almost enough to make me a gold bug again!
I was a gold bug too, but though I think bitcoin is still risky (maybe some altcoin takes over, or some problem which I am currently unable to foresee), I can easily see a future in which gold's store of value function is dwarfed by that of cryptos, which are a more pure form of money imho.  I am increasingly seeing my PMs as a call option on bitcoin/crypto failure.  As time progresses and if cryptos keep prospering, that call option should devalue.
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January 13, 2014, 03:14:25 AM
 #7366

hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
I think this is a very clever tactic.


+1

Can't wait for the day I'm going to take 10% of my BTCs and buy 50kg silver with it.



Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..

Ha ha ha, I have never thought of it that way, who knows. Do you think that could realistically happen? I hope we will be too late by then, fraud already exposed...
molecular
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January 13, 2014, 08:07:12 AM
 #7367

Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..

Some perspective on this:

if 10% of the "value" of Bitcoin (1 Billion USD) was moved to gold, that would be around 25 metric tons (not even taking into account the price-depressing effect of such a sale on the BTC/USD markets).

Compare that to monthly gold imports of China:



So this would equate about a weeks worth of supply for China. Hardly going to "shake up" that market.

If on the other hand 10% of golds value (650 Billion USD) was put into bitcoin, that would probably push bitcoin price to around USD 85,000.

So if both things (bitcoiners diversifying into metals and gold bugs getting into crypto) happen to an equal extent, the effect on bitcoin will be much larger than that on gold.

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domob
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January 13, 2014, 09:58:17 AM
 #7368

Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..

Some perspective on this:

if 10% of the "value" of Bitcoin (1 Billion USD) was moved to gold, that would be around 25 metric tons (not even taking into account the price-depressing effect of such a sale on the BTC/USD markets).

Compare that to monthly gold imports of China:

[plot skipped]

So this would equate about a weeks worth of supply for China. Hardly going to "shake up" that market.

True.  But I think the poster meant this more as a long-term perspective, after some more orders of magnitude in growth for Bitcoin.  If the market cap of Bitcoin approaches that of gold, it could be very possible to expose fractional-reserves in the gold market.  (However, at that point in time, most people will probably prefer Bitcoin to gold anyway and thus won't go on massive gold shopping with their coins.)

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January 13, 2014, 12:22:24 PM
 #7369

The silver market is nearing the inflection point much faster than gold. The deliverable reserves of silver coins and bullion worldwide are something like 500M oz, so about the same market cap as the total number of bitcoins.

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January 13, 2014, 12:49:06 PM
 #7370

True.  But I think the poster meant this more as a long-term perspective, after some more orders of magnitude in growth for Bitcoin.
Yes, of course.
I'm a bit optimistic, I know Smiley

(thanks for pointing it out)

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January 13, 2014, 03:30:41 PM
 #7371

Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..

Some perspective on this:

if 10% of the "value" of Bitcoin (1 Billion USD) was moved to gold, that would be around 25 metric tons (not even taking into account the price-depressing effect of such a sale on the BTC/USD markets).

Compare that to monthly gold imports of China:



So this would equate about a weeks worth of supply for China. Hardly going to "shake up" that market.

If on the other hand 10% of golds value (650 Billion USD) was put into bitcoin, that would probably push bitcoin price to around USD 85,000.

So if both things (bitcoiners diversifying into metals and gold bugs getting into crypto) happen to an equal extent, the effect on bitcoin will be much larger than that on gold.

That's a very interesting calculation.

No way can I see 10% of total above ground gold supply ever be moved into BTC though. That would include 10% of the central banks gold (if anything is left..), and above all of China's and India's supply, jewelry all over the world, etc... The Asians love their gold, and gold from China it is never coming back. Gold has too much of a tradition in these countries, and the West doesn't have much left...

But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
molecular
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January 13, 2014, 08:27:07 PM
 #7372

But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.

This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.

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January 13, 2014, 10:24:19 PM
 #7373

But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.

This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.


To paraphrase and old Cheech & Chong sketch:

  "Before I found the Lord Bitcoin, I used to be all hung up on drugs gold.  Now that I found the Lord Bitcoin, now I'm all hung up on the Lord Bitcoin."

Actually it is true that I rarely go to Kitco any more these days but watch Bitcoinity like a hawk.  I watch Kitco a little bit more recently because of their experimental Bitcoin charting.


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January 14, 2014, 05:34:47 AM
 #7374

You mean the thing I can't afford now, I still won't be able to afford??? Sounds about right.
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January 14, 2014, 09:20:16 AM
 #7375

Reality check!

It's always nice to get affirmation from a central banker to rekindle the fire in one's belly:

Feds Richard Fisher

Furthermore, I just realized I love Texans. Stockman, Justusranvier, and now Fisher.
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January 14, 2014, 10:59:40 AM
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But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.

This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.


Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin...

*raises his hand*

I have the feeling that Bitcoin is NOW, while it may take a bit more time for gold and silver. The main reason for that is the heavy manipulation of the PMs, which is (hopefully) not the case for BTC, and of course the small market saturation/market cap of BTC is just an enormous opportunity.

The PMs time will come big time once the manipulation can no longer be held up.
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January 20, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
 #7377

But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.

This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.


Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin...

*raises his hand*

I have the feeling that Bitcoin is NOW, while it may take a bit more time for gold and silver. The main reason for that is the heavy manipulation of the PMs, which is (hopefully) not the case for BTC, and of course the small market saturation/market cap of BTC is just an enormous opportunity.

The PMs time will come big time once the manipulation can no longer be held up.

JPM is the biggest culprit and alreadt getting sued left and right they are getting out of pms last I heard.. ofcourse after the damage is already done. I suspect both gold and btc to rise together to some extent after stock market peaks.
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January 20, 2014, 08:05:08 PM
 #7378

But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.

This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.


Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin...

*raises his hand*

I have the feeling that Bitcoin is NOW, while it may take a bit more time for gold and silver. The main reason for that is the heavy manipulation of the PMs, which is (hopefully) not the case for BTC, and of course the small market saturation/market cap of BTC is just an enormous opportunity.

The PMs time will come big time once the manipulation can no longer be held up.

JPM is the biggest culprit and alreadt getting sued left and right they are getting out of pms last I heard.. ofcourse after the damage is already done. I suspect both gold and btc to rise together to some extent after stock market peaks.


+1

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molecular
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January 21, 2014, 07:51:15 AM
 #7379

But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.

This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.


Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin...

*raises his hand*

You are not alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMilJzD3pL0#t=1282 (listen for 60 seconds or so).

"Family offices" are moving some of their gold portfolio into Bitcoin.

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peace


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January 21, 2014, 09:55:14 AM
 #7380

Thought this was relevant:

deustche bank pulls out of rigging

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