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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805086 times)
smoothie
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January 27, 2014, 12:21:11 AM
 #7521


Actually it would prove everything.

That was such an epic thread that brought out all the good bugs and cypherdoc haters because I had the gall to call the top. It was an extremely tense 4 months of posting; basically me against everyone else. It was so controversial that I would think you'd have gotten involved supporting me if you had indeed sold or gone short like I did. It doesn't make sense you'd stay away given how intense you've been concerning your love of gold and especially silver that you've demonstrated over the last year or so in this very thread.

Posting or not in one thread does not prove or disprove my actions in real life. The world does not revolve around you and your threads. That fact that you seem to think this is the case is very shocking to me. Your using this to base that you think I'm a fraud makes me question your abilities at logic.

Like I said I was highly interested in BTC and the time and had not only sold off all my gold, but my wife's as well to get BTC and mining equipment. I did not care about gold at the time as I did not hold it and was not going to get it anytime soon. I became more interested in gold and silver when silver was getting close to $18.50 my first buy back in point.

I do not love gold or silver. I think it is a smart fraction of any sane persons investment portfolio. I hold 85% Crypto, 10% PMs and 5% cash.

I'm sorry I did not defend you for the difficult 4 months you had on this BTC forum but really that was not my battle. I was busy making money...

Yes making money through the PIRATE PONZI PASS-THROUGH as one of PirateAt40's gateways to "invest" to get the holy 7% per week returns.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
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LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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January 27, 2014, 12:27:40 AM
 #7522


Actually it would prove everything.

That was such an epic thread that brought out all the good bugs and cypherdoc haters because I had the gall to call the top. It was an extremely tense 4 months of posting; basically me against everyone else. It was so controversial that I would think you'd have gotten involved supporting me if you had indeed sold or gone short like I did. It doesn't make sense you'd stay away given how intense you've been concerning your love of gold and especially silver that you've demonstrated over the last year or so in this very thread.

Posting or not in one thread does not prove or disprove my actions in real life. The world does not revolve around you and your threads. That fact that you seem to think this is the case is very shocking to me. Your using this to base that you think I'm a fraud makes me question your abilities at logic.

Like I said I was highly interested in BTC and the time and had not only sold off all my gold, but my wife's as well to get BTC and mining equipment. I did not care about gold at the time as I did not hold it and was not going to get it anytime soon. I became more interested in gold and silver when silver was getting close to $18.50 my first buy back in point.

I do not love gold or silver. I think it is a smart fraction of any sane persons investment portfolio. I hold 85% Crypto, 10% PMs and 5% cash.

I'm sorry I did not defend you for the difficult 4 months you had on this BTC forum but really that was not my battle. I was busy making money...

Yes making money through the PIRATE PONZI PASS-THROUGH as one of PirateAt40's gateways to "invest" to get the holy 7% per week returns.

Quote
He lost about 40,000 BTC with PirateAt40's Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST)

From smoothie's thread  "[FAIL CAPTAIN] Some Facts About Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย" found here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119490.0

I get attacked both ways. Anyway, have fun with the personal attacks!

Yes that was me over a year ago. Get over it Goat.  Cheesy

Also...didn't you hit the IGNORE BUTTON? No credibility there I guess or no consistency to keep it that way. Not surprising.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
cypherdoc
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January 27, 2014, 12:28:37 AM
 #7523


Actually it would prove everything.

That was such an epic thread that brought out all the good bugs and cypherdoc haters because I had the gall to call the top. It was an extremely tense 4 months of posting; basically me against everyone else. It was so controversial that I would think you'd have gotten involved supporting me if you had indeed sold or gone short like I did. It doesn't make sense you'd stay away given how intense you've been concerning your love of gold and especially silver that you've demonstrated over the last year or so in this very thread.

Posting or not in one thread does not prove or disprove my actions in real life. The world does not revolve around you and your threads. That fact that you seem to think this is the case is very shocking to me. Your using this to base that you think I'm a fraud makes me question your abilities at logic.

Like I said I was highly interested in BTC and the time and had not only sold off all my gold, but my wife's as well to get BTC and mining equipment. I did not care about gold at the time as I did not hold it and was not going to get it anytime soon. I became more interested in gold and silver when silver was getting close to $18.50 my first buy back in point.

I do not love gold or silver. I think it is a smart fraction of any sane persons investment portfolio. I hold 85% Crypto, 10% PMs and 5% cash.

I'm sorry I did not defend you for the difficult 4 months you had on this BTC forum but really that was not my battle. I was busy making money...



Edit: This thread has become focused on me and what I might have done 10 plus years ago. I'm going to stay away for a couple of days and hopefully this gets back on topic. Insult me all you want if it makes you feel better but I have better things to do. Peace.

I'm not attacking you but it did strike me as odd that you've made this claim.

That thread, like this one, speaks for itself in terms of popularity. It was front and center of the Speculation forum that whole time with as many, if not more replies per time period as this one.

You were also quite active as a poster, as you are now. It would have been natural for you to be a part of the discussion like you are now. The whole concept of Bitcoin as a replacement for gold was not nearly as clear as it is now.
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January 27, 2014, 12:31:38 AM
 #7524


Actually it would prove everything.

That was such an epic thread that brought out all the good bugs and cypherdoc haters because I had the gall to call the top. It was an extremely tense 4 months of posting; basically me against everyone else. It was so controversial that I would think you'd have gotten involved supporting me if you had indeed sold or gone short like I did. It doesn't make sense you'd stay away given how intense you've been concerning your love of gold and especially silver that you've demonstrated over the last year or so in this very thread.

Posting or not in one thread does not prove or disprove my actions in real life. The world does not revolve around you and your threads. That fact that you seem to think this is the case is very shocking to me. Your using this to base that you think I'm a fraud makes me question your abilities at logic.

Like I said I was highly interested in BTC and the time and had not only sold off all my gold, but my wife's as well to get BTC and mining equipment. I did not care about gold at the time as I did not hold it and was not going to get it anytime soon. I became more interested in gold and silver when silver was getting close to $18.50 my first buy back in point.

I do not love gold or silver. I think it is a smart fraction of any sane persons investment portfolio. I hold 85% Crypto, 10% PMs and 5% cash.

I'm sorry I did not defend you for the difficult 4 months you had on this BTC forum but really that was not my battle. I was busy making money...



Edit: This thread has become focused on me and what I might have done 10 plus years ago. I'm going to stay away for a couple of days and hopefully this gets back on topic. Insult me all you want if it makes you feel better but I have better things to do. Peace.

I'm not attacking you but it did strike me as odd that you've made this claim.

That thread, like this one, speaks for itself in terms of popularity. It was front and center of the Speculation forum that whole time with as many, if not more replies per time period as this one.

You were also quite active as a poster, as you are now. It would have been natural for you to be a part of the discussion like you are now. The whole concept of Bitcoin as a replacement for gold was not nearly as clear as it is now.

Hindsight is 20/20.


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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
smoothie
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January 27, 2014, 12:35:20 AM
 #7525

The whole concept of Bitcoin as a replacement for gold was not nearly as clear as it is now.

I clearly do not believe Bitcoin is a replacement for gold and stuff like this is probably why I would have felt awkward trying to defend you, even if i wanted to. But yes, I did see the thread, and I read some of it. But like I said, at that time I did not care about gold or people who thought BTC would replace gold.

To move into an asset like Bitcoin from Gold and not care about people thinking BTC may somehow replace gold (in some sort of transacting way) is rather unbelievable. The obvious thing is to look at what the herd may consider in the future as a way to get in early to an asset like BTC from gold.

This would be the logical way I would think someone selling Gold to get into Bitcoin would be thinking longer term.

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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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January 27, 2014, 12:36:22 AM
 #7526

The whole concept of Bitcoin as a replacement for gold was not nearly as clear as it is now.

I clearly do not believe Bitcoin is a replacement for gold and stuff like this is probably why I would have felt awkward trying to defend you, even if i wanted to. But yes, I did see the thread, and I read some of it. But like I said, at that time I did not care about gold or people who thought BTC would replace gold.

Well then, I guess you're still missing the whole point of this and the other thread.  Grin
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January 27, 2014, 12:37:05 AM
 #7527

The whole concept of Bitcoin as a replacement for gold was not nearly as clear as it is now.

I clearly do not believe Bitcoin is a replacement for gold and stuff like this is probably why I would have felt awkward trying to defend you, even if i wanted to. But yes, I did see the thread, and I read some of it. But like I said, at that time I did not care about gold or people who thought BTC would replace gold.

Well then, I guess you're still missing the whole point of this and the other thread.  Grin

+1 not very shocking.  Shocked

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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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January 27, 2014, 01:08:27 AM
 #7528


like smoothie has never made an unverifiable claim on bitcointalk ...  Roll Eyes

i know who I'd be inclined to believe.

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January 27, 2014, 04:58:41 AM
 #7529

To move this thread in a more productive direction what do people here think about Rhodium?

Rhodium has a history of being all over the place and the Gold/Rhodium ratio seems to be near historic lows. I bought some phsical last week for the first time ever. Not a huge amount, but enough for me to watch the charts.

All in all, I do like your colour choice in car's.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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January 27, 2014, 05:36:23 AM
 #7530

To move this thread in a more productive direction what do people here think about Rhodium?

Rhodium has a history of being all over the place and the Gold/Rhodium ratio seems to be near historic lows. I bought some phsical last week for the first time ever. Not a huge amount, but enough for me to watch the charts.

All in all, I do like your colour choice in car's.

That's like saying cars don't replace horses. Well, in most cases, they do, but not in all cases. LOL. Goat didn't buy a kick-ass yellow horse, did he? Damn, old-fashioned ideas die hard.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
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January 27, 2014, 06:49:09 AM
 #7531

...
Some people in this thread think gold is on its way to 0 and its dead.
...


Not zero... I'd say, though, that it'll eventually lose *most* of it's monetary-use premium. That's a bit tough to tease out; the other main domains for gold are industrial use and jewelry. Industrial use accounts for what, about $300/oz? And then the demand for jewelry is all convoluted with its historical moneyness, so I don't know how to treat that (though I'm aware that about 50% of above-ground gold is estimated to be jewelry). So maybe the floor once gold is finally (and correctly) no longer seen as a monetary instrument/asset is somewhere in the $300-$600 range.

But this could take another generation or two. The *oldest* of us that have grown up surrounded by digital (and therefore have some innate comfort with it that many older people do not) are only in our early 30s. It's going to be a while before we get all the money and allocate it. In the meantime, those that control most of the wealth flows could very well drive up the price of gold significantly. I personally find trading the short/medium-term to be extremely frustrating, though.


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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January 27, 2014, 07:50:00 AM
 #7532

It is helpful if we totally rid ourselves of fiat as a measurement of value:

The market cap of gold is currently about 1.5-2% of market cap of the world.
That of silver is way less and Bitcoin is still less (0.003%).

When Bitcoin reaches its potential and becomes 10-50% of the market cap of the world (the position that paper sludge is occupying now and metals occupied thousands of years), will gold still be 1.5% of the world?

I think, yes. I see no much reason why not. It will start to be used in more decorative purposes, though, such as the Solomon's Temple which was overlaid with gold.

To uphold the price of gold (or anything), it does not matter if 95% think it is worthless. The rest can happily bid it up, and gold is a prime example of this.

Anybody care to discuss the role of gold in mathematical terms? How many % of total? And will the total go up or down with the introduction of crypto and the resulting free flow of money?

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January 27, 2014, 07:54:12 AM
 #7533

(what happened to this thread? 2 pages of pointless ego-fighting?)

question to the experts, though: some sources state "problems in emerging countries" as reason for the market drops last week. I have problems understanding that. Which countries?

Seems to me the USD dropped at the same time as equities and that other stuff, so it should've been something to do with the USD? Did the FED try to taper or something?

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January 27, 2014, 07:58:52 AM
 #7534

It is helpful if we totally rid ourselves of fiat as a measurement of value:

The market cap of gold is currently about 1.5-2% of market cap of the world.
That of silver is way less and Bitcoin is still less (0.003%).

When Bitcoin reaches its potential and becomes 10-50% of the market cap of the world (the position that paper sludge is occupying now and metals occupied thousands of years), will gold still be 1.5% of the world?

I think, yes. I see no much reason why not. It will start to be used in more decorative purposes, though, such as the Solomon's Temple which was overlaid with gold.

To uphold the price of gold (or anything), it does not matter if 95% think it is worthless. The rest can happily bid it up, and gold is a prime example of this.

Anybody care to discuss the role of gold in mathematical terms? How many % of total? And will the total go up or down with the introduction of crypto and the resulting free flow of money?

How many % of total what? Value in the world stored in it?

I agree we should try to rid ourselved from measuring everything in USD. That's quite a project though, because tax authorities require that crap as unit of measurement for everything.

btw, still an awesome chart to look at:

http://pricedingold.com/bitcoin/

would've preferred them to use oz/BTC instead of mg/BTC, but whatever.

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January 27, 2014, 09:14:04 AM
 #7535

How many % of total what? Value in the world stored in it?

The world and everything in it is 100%.

How many % is gold?

(Discussing about gold in dollar terms is not only wrong, it is impossible.)

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January 27, 2014, 05:46:17 PM
 #7536

How many % of total what? Value in the world stored in it?

The world and everything in it is 100%.

How many % is gold?

(Discussing about gold in dollar terms is not only wrong, it is impossible.)

Hmm. The answer is the same as to this question: "what percentage of his wealth does the average person hold in gold?".

It isn't any easier to answer, though.

My wholly irrelevant guess is somewhere in between 1.5% to 5%

On a side-note: what's the value of the last fish in the world?

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January 28, 2014, 02:53:29 AM
 #7537

...
Some people in this thread think gold is on its way to 0 and its dead.
...
Not zero... I'd say, though, that it'll eventually lose *most* of it's monetary-use premium. That's a bit tough to tease out; the other main domains for gold are industrial use and jewelry. Industrial use accounts for what, about $300/oz? And then the demand for jewelry is all convoluted with its historical moneyness, so I don't know how to treat that (though I'm aware that about 50% of above-ground gold is estimated to be jewelry). So maybe the floor once gold is finally (and correctly) no longer seen as a monetary instrument/asset is somewhere in the $300-$600 range.


Monetary-use premium? Where exactly is it used for money these days? Porcfest? A few gun shops in Arizona? A few village merchants in remote areas of Myanmar? 

I would say that right now it's "moneyness" accounts for a VERY small percent of its current demand, and it's "hoardiness" (similar to moneyness but little to do with transactional value) as well as its speculative value, is responsible for most of its non-industrial, non-convoluted-with-jewelry demand.
Does that make sense? Obviously something that is used as money is in demand to be used as money, and usually things used as money are also good for hoarding. HOWEVER - what we're seeing with gold is rather unprecedented - most of the world has completely abandoned it as a transactional currency. But much of the world still hoards it! Central banks (esp. eastern CBs), asians, libertardian American stackers, etc. The demand is not for gold as a transactional currency - demand would be much higher if that were the case - but for gold as a hunk of metal to hoard for various reasons - inflation hedge, SHTF hedge (however misguided that may be), deflationary store of value (as unsuccessful as that's been the past couple years.)

I'm not necessarily saying gold ISN'T headed for $0, but if even a small fraction of its former demand as a transactional currency were restored (in addition to retaining its value as a hunk o' hoardiness), combined with the artificial supply from the paper market collapsing (which it won't, ever) it would indeed make gold holders quite happy. It's a pipe dream, and it's not MY pipe dream, but it's one of many things that could happen, and that's why Goat has a small % of his portfolio in PMs.
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January 28, 2014, 03:48:42 AM
 #7538

To move this thread in a more productive direction what do people here think about Rhodium?

Definitely worth a dabble, though maybe not quite as interesting from a trading perspective as BTC/LTC. The ratios are where the fun is anyway.
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January 28, 2014, 03:56:36 AM
 #7539

...
Some people in this thread think gold is on its way to 0 and its dead.
...
Not zero... I'd say, though, that it'll eventually lose *most* of it's monetary-use premium. That's a bit tough to tease out; the other main domains for gold are industrial use and jewelry. Industrial use accounts for what, about $300/oz? And then the demand for jewelry is all convoluted with its historical moneyness, so I don't know how to treat that (though I'm aware that about 50% of above-ground gold is estimated to be jewelry). So maybe the floor once gold is finally (and correctly) no longer seen as a monetary instrument/asset is somewhere in the $300-$600 range.


Monetary-use premium? Where exactly is it used for money these days? Porcfest? A few gun shops in Arizona? A few village merchants in remote areas of Myanmar? 

I would say that right now it's "moneyness" accounts for a VERY small percent of its current demand, and it's "hoardiness" (similar to moneyness but little to do with transactional value) as well as its speculative value, is responsible for most of its non-industrial, non-convoluted-with-jewelry demand.
Does that make sense? Obviously something that is used as money is in demand to be used as money, and usually things used as money are also good for hoarding. HOWEVER - what we're seeing with gold is rather unprecedented - most of the world has completely abandoned it as a transactional currency. But much of the world still hoards it! Central banks (esp. eastern CBs), asians, libertardian American stackers, etc. The demand is not for gold as a transactional currency - demand would be much higher if that were the case - but for gold as a hunk of metal to hoard for various reasons - inflation hedge, SHTF hedge (however misguided that may be), deflationary store of value (as unsuccessful as that's been the past couple years.)

I'm not necessarily saying gold ISN'T headed for $0, but if even a small fraction of its former demand as a transactional currency were restored (in addition to retaining its value as a hunk o' hoardiness), combined with the artificial supply from the paper market collapsing (which it won't, ever) it would indeed make gold holders quite happy. It's a pipe dream, and it's not MY pipe dream, but it's one of many things that could happen, and that's why Goat has a small % of his portfolio in PMs.
That rant would likely apply just as much to bitcoin as it's current main purpose is very much the same hoardiness you attribute to gold.  Granted the current trend lines seem to be headed in the opposite directions for XBT vs Gold in that regard.  But long term who knows.
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January 28, 2014, 03:59:03 AM
 #7540

...
Some people in this thread think gold is on its way to 0 and its dead.
...
Not zero... I'd say, though, that it'll eventually lose *most* of it's monetary-use premium. That's a bit tough to tease out; the other main domains for gold are industrial use and jewelry. Industrial use accounts for what, about $300/oz? And then the demand for jewelry is all convoluted with its historical moneyness, so I don't know how to treat that (though I'm aware that about 50% of above-ground gold is estimated to be jewelry). So maybe the floor once gold is finally (and correctly) no longer seen as a monetary instrument/asset is somewhere in the $300-$600 range.


Monetary-use premium? Where exactly is it used for money these days? Porcfest? A few gun shops in Arizona? A few village merchants in remote areas of Myanmar? 

I would say that right now it's "moneyness" accounts for a VERY small percent of its current demand, and it's "hoardiness" (similar to moneyness but little to do with transactional value) as well as its speculative value, is responsible for most of its non-industrial, non-convoluted-with-jewelry demand.
Does that make sense? Obviously something that is used as money is in demand to be used as money, and usually things used as money are also good for hoarding. HOWEVER - what we're seeing with gold is rather unprecedented - most of the world has completely abandoned it as a transactional currency. But much of the world still hoards it! Central banks (esp. eastern CBs), asians, libertardian American stackers, etc. The demand is not for gold as a transactional currency - demand would be much higher if that were the case - but for gold as a hunk of metal to hoard for various reasons - inflation hedge, SHTF hedge (however misguided that may be), deflationary store of value (as unsuccessful as that's been the past couple years.)

I'm not necessarily saying gold ISN'T headed for $0, but if even a small fraction of its former demand as a transactional currency were restored (in addition to retaining its value as a hunk o' hoardiness), combined with the artificial supply from the paper market collapsing (which it won't, ever) it would indeed make gold holders quite happy. It's a pipe dream, and it's not MY pipe dream, but it's one of many things that could happen, and that's why Goat has a small % of his portfolio in PMs.
That rant would likely apply just as much to bitcoin as it's current main purpose is very much the same hoardiness you attribute to gold.  Granted the current trend lines seem to be headed in the opposite directions for XBT vs Gold in that regard.  But long term who knows.

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. It can have all the "hoardiness" of Gold while being extremely easy to transact with as well. Hence Gold 2.0.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
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