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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3176213 times)
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kurious
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December 04, 2018, 06:12:37 PM
 #40121

Anyone feel that Monero is likely to be 'made illegal'?

Thoughts here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/a2p8cq/the_clock_is_ticking/

Hmm... to force exchanges to avoid privacy coins is feasible, but it would look as it is - overly authoritarian.  

If they try, it cannot be a global ban very easily, either.  I hope they won't try. I do think people would fight an overt 'ban' in most countries.  In an age where real money-laundering by massive banks is 'normal' - it would seem total hypocrisy to try to ban a coin with a transaction level such as that of Monero's.  

And if it becomes much bigger, I doubt it will be possible to try to ban it - as they may simply fail and create a coin that ONLY works underground and in illegal ways.  

<insert random Nietzsche quote here>

That's why I'm so happy to see a lot of people doing OTC trading/bisq usage from Monero people.  Seems like it's always the highest volume trading pair on bisq at least.  As long as someone is willing to sell and you are willing to buy, there will always be a market and decentralized exchanges will be in need.  

Even though I haven't used it in a while, bisq and other decentralized exchanges will have to be the answer if there is a ban on all KYC exchanges

I haven't ever used a decentralised exchange, but I will check Bisq out, I would like to support the concept at least.  But does it sort the fiat/crypto issue?

It’s a similar concept to localbitcoins, but with “honest” peers acting as mediators (who make a small percentage of the trade), and have the options to use zelle, cash deposits, face to face, etc.

You should really check them out if you don’t know someone else to OTC trade with. Even when I used it 2 years ago or so it was really nice and my transactions went through flawlessly

Thanks for that (and to Febo), I will check it out, it's something I have never tried - I have stuck to more regular exchanges for years, about time I tried a decentralised one.  I love the idea of selling Monero in as close to an OTC as poss.  If it's for cash (and relatively safe) that could be an interesting plus...

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Last of the V8s
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December 04, 2018, 06:17:37 PM
 #40122

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.

I do not accept segwit outputs as payment, nor send them.
~14 easy tricks to save your bitcoin http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/ The auditable hardware RNG http://nosuchlabs.com/
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December 04, 2018, 08:07:46 PM
 #40123

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.


Did I miss something?

There are already other decentralized exchanges. How is Bisq different?

Currently no other project fits our definition of a decentralized bitcoin-to-fiat exchange. Open Bazaar stands alone in mirroring Bisq’s principles, but they’re a full market place, not a specialized currency exchange. Most exchanges claiming to be decentralized are either not supporting fiat exchange or operate with a server architecture and do not fit our definition. And of course there are a lot of ICO projects with whitepapers but they have not proven yet that they can deliver any working software.

To be properly decentralized, one must avoid single points of failure:

*Bisq does not hold any bitcoins. All are held in multisignature addresses rather than a Bisq-controlled wallet.
*Bisq does not hold any national currency. National currency is transferred directly from one trader to the other.
*Bisq uses a Peer-to-Peer network over Tor. This means there are no servers to be hacked or DDoS’d.
*Bisq does not know the traders. No data is stored on who trades with whom.
*Bisq does not require registration. This means privacy is maintained, there are no “approval” wait times, and identity theft becomes impossible.
*Bisq is not a company. It is an open source project organized as a Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO).


From: https://bisq.network/faq/#How_is_Bisq_different

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December 04, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
 #40124

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

I do not accept segwit outputs as payment, nor send them.
~14 easy tricks to save your bitcoin http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/ The auditable hardware RNG http://nosuchlabs.com/
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December 04, 2018, 09:37:22 PM
 #40125

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

Do you have evidence that the software doesn't work as advertised? Presuming all opensource software doesn't work as advertised is shrugging the community's responsibility to vet software, which may be fine for you, but in the case of a decentralized exchange would be disastrous--even if it just the exchange getting caught, as unlike you, most people want the exchange to actually be decentralized and would cease using it if it was revealed as otherwise.

How does their arbitration process work? If it isn't being used, or even better, can't be used in most circumstances, I don't think many would have a problem with it. Like most things in technology, decentralization is spectrum, so unless there's a single point of failure, I'd say it's still decentralized--especially if the majority of the processes are out of anyone's hands once they issue their order.

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December 04, 2018, 11:08:17 PM
 #40126

Potential flaws exist in most systems - even in Bitcoin, where exchanges in particular are hardly flawless, I think the effort to offer decentralised exchange is at the very least worthwhile.  

Superficially it looks better than buying drugs on the street - so I guess in the absence of evidence, I must do my own research and find out if there is evidence of absence (of security of transactions) in my own case.

Unless anyone else with any credibility has an account of an issue actually personally experienced.

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December 05, 2018, 12:55:00 AM
Last edit: December 06, 2018, 05:42:43 PM by Febo
 #40127

As I understood a month ago when I listened 3 interviews and podcasts about BisQ they said that when there is a case of dispute, then solving that is still centralized and is done  by original developers. They dont trust anyone else. But that they plan to solve that in future differently.  They lack of developers to move forward as fast as they would love to.  Although Monero had so much volume they could not put all their focus into Monero fiat pair integration. They even made a bounty for people to help them. Propose how to integrate Monero wallet into Bisq https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/1863

As I see this is that we now have v0.9.0.  When we will get to v1.0.0  , that will mean that we got somewhere. It could take long time. But we cant have super huge expectations before that happens.

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[/]
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December 06, 2018, 01:47:44 PM
 #40128

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353


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December 06, 2018, 02:13:17 PM
Last edit: December 06, 2018, 02:42:08 PM by tokeweed
 #40129

^  You mean those two random people on the Twitters with fake followers drawing random lines on an XMR chart?  Any 4 year old can do that.  Lmao.

Edit:  Skillz.


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December 06, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
 #40130

Great! You know how to do it to. You're the man!  Cool

^  You mean those two random people on the Twitters with fake followers drawing random lines on an XMR chart?  Any 4 year old can do that.  Lmao.

Edit:  Skillz.



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December 06, 2018, 02:58:27 PM
Merited by Kryptowerk (1)
 #40131

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.
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December 06, 2018, 03:11:59 PM
 #40132

I am hoping for a day and indeed a time when bitcoin will not have any influence on monero price in the cryptocurrency market.  I think monero is capable of holding it's own.  The value of monero should be derive from it's use cases!

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December 06, 2018, 04:21:14 PM
 #40133

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

Do you have evidence that the software doesn't work as advertised? Presuming all opensource software doesn't work as advertised is shrugging the community's responsibility to vet software, which may be fine for you, but in the case of a decentralized exchange would be disastrous--even if it just the exchange getting caught, as unlike you, most people want the exchange to actually be decentralized and would cease using it if it was revealed as otherwise.

How does their arbitration process work? If it isn't being used, or even better, can't be used in most circumstances, I don't think many would have a problem with it. Like most things in technology, decentralization is spectrum, so unless there's a single point of failure, I'd say it's still decentralized--especially if the majority of the processes are out of anyone's hands once they issue their order.

He is correct that all software should be considered suspect unless it is vetted by a source you trust. Trusted in some ghost community is just as bad as trusting in microshaft. All it takes is one infiltrated library. Remember when I was asking all those questions about ZeroMq? Also you rrmeber I was saying from day 1 that json was an attack vector and should be removed from the local software and was pretty much laughed at and it turned out i was correct.

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December 06, 2018, 04:36:30 PM
 #40134

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

Do you have evidence that the software doesn't work as advertised? Presuming all opensource software doesn't work as advertised is shrugging the community's responsibility to vet software, which may be fine for you, but in the case of a decentralized exchange would be disastrous--even if it just the exchange getting caught, as unlike you, most people want the exchange to actually be decentralized and would cease using it if it was revealed as otherwise.

How does their arbitration process work? If it isn't being used, or even better, can't be used in most circumstances, I don't think many would have a problem with it. Like most things in technology, decentralization is spectrum, so unless there's a single point of failure, I'd say it's still decentralized--especially if the majority of the processes are out of anyone's hands once they issue their order.

He is correct that all software should be considered suspect unless it is vetted by a source you trust. Trusted in some ghost community is just as bad as trusting in microshaft. All it takes is one infiltrated library. Remember when I was asking all those questions about ZeroMq? Also you rrmeber I was saying from day 1 that json was an attack vector and should be removed from the local software and was pretty much laughed at and it turned out i was correct.

Oh you're right, but that doesn't mean you just accuse devs of lying when you haven't gone through and even looked yourself. You're speaking for community's safety, I'm speaking for the dev's reputation.

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December 06, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
 #40135

Oh you're right, but that doesn't mean you just accuse devs of lying when you haven't gone through and even looked yourself. You're speaking for community's safety, I'm speaking for the dev's reputation.

Yeah,there is always a measure of trust if you do not do the code review yourself. The main thing is for you to decide what level of trust is acceptable.

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December 06, 2018, 09:36:28 PM
 #40136

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

True words. It's like an equation with at least 5 unknown variables. If we place (random) values / make assumptions in three of them, leaving only two "unknowns" we can come up with a graph that shows some possible outcomes.
Right now anyone claiming to know what's gonna happen next is (at least slightly) delusional. Just my opinion.
Even great projects with high quality code, constant development and true innovation have a good chance to suffer in short/midterm from a crash of traditional markets. Hopefully it won't happen, but it seems quite likely.

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December 06, 2018, 09:44:40 PM
 #40137

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

Well those are good sings.

But what do you think about this?
https://breakermag.com/when-wall-street-financializes-bitcoin-who-benefits/

Most people are unable to make difference between paper BTC and real BTC. But blockchain can. So we need actual use of BTC on real shopping.
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December 06, 2018, 09:52:40 PM
 #40138

Damn why Monroe is not growing, he still didn’t show ToTheMoon in relation to the cue ball, it seems to me that in 2019 he can show us this, but he will have to suffer, in general, the network is one of the most promising.

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December 06, 2018, 09:55:59 PM
 #40139

Damn why Monroe is not growing, he still didn’t show ToTheMoon in relation to the cue ball, it seems to me that in 2019 he can show us this, but he will have to suffer, in general, the network is one of the most promising.

The master would be sad to see you following an ALT I think. Wink
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December 06, 2018, 09:56:54 PM
 #40140

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

Well those are good sings.

But what do you think about this?
https://breakermag.com/when-wall-street-financializes-bitcoin-who-benefits/

Most people are unable to make difference between paper BTC and real BTC. But blockchain can. So we need actual use of BTC on real shopping.

The real difference here is gold settlement is the lynchpin for paper gold to work.

If you HOLD YOUR PRIVATE KEYS.  They can't make fake bitcoin out of them.
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