[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Hueristic]

I have no idea how much vendors use XMR but unfortunately we cannot prevent the junkies and criminals using the best alt.

What is considered 'criminal behaviour' is very very relative in time and space, depends on who's in charge, societal climate etc etc... And yes, these people, whose behaviour has been outlawed will seek the best way to hide said behaviour... This is not something which anyone should seek to prevent, at least not by diminishing anonimity/privacy and thus fungibility in a currency

Criminal = outlawed.
If you live in Somalia which has no law and order there is obviously many things possible but if we look at the majority of countries, most of them has outlawed drugs and certain type of pornography for instance.
The criminal activity has partially ruined the reputation of bitcoin (many still think it is a currency of criminals) so it may not be good for the reputation in the beginning. Therefore, being accepted by the D.N.M. is kinda double edged sword: on the one hand it is nice that XMR has some real use case, on the other hand, it might create reputation to the XMR of being the currency of the bad guys.

This is the largest criminal asset of all time.



It has such a bad reputation no-one will accept it, right?

Well to be fair maybe gold is larger but the point still stands.

[luigi1111]

@dEBRUYNE & @MoneroMooo

Cool... thanks for those.  Totally don't grok what any of that info's about, LOL but cool to play with anyway

So, just as a test using the info on the slip of paper that Smoothie included with the coin, here's what I got:

Smoothie had the example "Base64" text to print in the circle on paper, to cut out and insert under the hologram sticker, like this...

iOLI
b6/Kukeg
h23tC8Prlo
9OC0GF8mgn
djeI9ike
dji=

...which I had to use a jeweler's loupe to actually READ, LOL... my eye's gettin' old, man... heh

Anyway, that's...

iOLIb6/Kukegh23tC8Prlo9OC0GF8mgndjeI9ikedji=

...which I then used http://kjur.github.io/jsjws/tool_b64udec.html online to convert to...

88e2c86fafcaba47a0876ded0bc3eb968f4e0b4185f26827763788f6291e7638

...which then using luigi1111's tool, above, yielded valid Monero Address...

49cfLx1LyTK6JgUYtqSZszckGP3S8nVYLAwU4dZJUc5ZRajBUT7tGfB41cBHMxJEwfcjFmLegFypy6Z U6wDNsJcDHNwJnh2

...and SEED WORDS...

sipped bugs needed biscuit feline neither dads sulking saga anchor safety geyser patio hounded peaches juvenile moisture radar oncoming agnostic yawning teeming budget gone radar

...which worked fine on MyMonero but (of course) didn't show any balance currently or transaction history.

So... bottom line?  Smoothie, if you're reading this and you remember what address that example text on your little instruction sheet came from, maybe confirm that it's all correct and I successfully reverted back here, from the shorter simple Base64 all the way to seed words?

Pretty cool, if so.  Good system

Just wanna practice this a couple more times before actually putting any XMR onto the coin, permanently.  

Just 'cuz after all, y'know, 5 XMR going to this little fun "throwaway" coin just to play with today, may be worth equivalent of $5,000,000 purchasing power for my future grandchildren some day, LOL

P.S. {Edit} Hmm... maybe spoke too soon?  Slight quirk apparently, I didn't look closely enough before, but just now I noticed that using those seed words to log in to MyMonero shows *different* address, in fact:

Account Address (Public)
49cfLx1LyTK6JgUYtqSZszckGP3S8nVYLAwU4dZJUc5ZRZ3acjTyx3rFjnZjptwjPDWEnMuQa2wW852 NUKSeQMWMRNMDHoy

View Key (Private)
528821c52c901556be9ac964a58c80c8196efa2c0f2acfaac6f28c4b19c41b0b

Spend Key (Private)
c166e75860a1833f1db1860470d54e588f4e0b4185f26827763788f6291e7608

IS this still "the same" however, so if XMR was sent to this it would still work...?  Or...?  Hmm...

This "seed" is not reduced. That is why MyMonero shows a different address.

You can see the difference by looking at https://xmr.llcoins.net/addresstests.html -- put the 64 hex chars in box 2. then click the button "Gen 3. and 4." Note the spendkey is not the same. To make MyMonero show the same address, just copy the new spendkey back to box 2, then press "Gen 1."

[KeyJockey]

This "seed" is not reduced. That is why MyMonero shows a different address.

You can see the difference by looking at https://xmr.llcoins.net/addresstests.html -- put the 64 hex chars in box 2. then click the button "Gen 3. and 4." Note the spendkey is not the same. To make MyMonero show the same address, just copy the new spendkey back to box 2, then press "Gen 1."

Thanks for reply Luigi... very cool.  And thanks again for everything you do for XMR and all of us.

So, here's a copy-paste of what I wrote on the Reddit post about this recently too, just for future reference & posterity etc...

=====

OK just to make a summary here on the reddit thread for other people too, here's one way I've been playing around with this myself (have not yet actually put my coin together either, just getting familiar with all the process still...)

Using the cool tool from Luigi1111, https://xmr.llcoins.net/addresstests.html

Generate a new Monero address... hit all the "gen" buttons there to fill in all fields.

Use the site offline for security if at all possible!

Copy the hexadecimal seed there from Box 2 Either on Unix commandline (as per MoneroMooo info) or on a site like here, http://tomeko.net/online_tools/hex_to_base64.php?lang=en

Paste and convert hex seed text to Base64

This is what you PRINT and cut out on paper to embed into the coin under hologram

Test converting this Base64 text string BACK to hexadecimal on a site like here, http://kjur.github.io/jsjws/tool_b64udec.html

Test taking that hex seed back to Luigi's site and re-regenerate all the correct Monero address and seed words etc... to be sure your distilled-down simple short Base64 string that will be secure inside the coin IS able to be used to bring you back to your XMR access.

IF/WHEN everything seems okay, generate the info, embed into coin, send XMR to that address and be sure to DELETE EVERYTHING so that the ONLY record of that XMR is secure saved embedded into the coin.

Here's a quick example of doing all this start to finish... note I'm not gonna put any XMR on this address obviously so anyone thinking to try and use this to steal my funds, nope. Ha ha.


Mnemonic Seed Words:
turnip dwarf beware rafts shelter honked utility pact nuisance iceberg vitals match examine motherly oxygen muppet inwardly utmost cogs uptight twofold union flying furnished motherly

Monero Address:
43BZy5FRqYXMy4GaSd5HCEFS1jRQEx2v2PYb3MnA2sn9ABYYjx8wiYdZaThAZJWUVq2kWus4meTJoBh 1Bd7gxA2JLMM5JdT

Hexadecimal Seed:
921a3fe16d0d639eac835ff4251760942ebc6b168565c87fcbf66bf908e80004

Base64 Reduction To:
kho/4W0NY56sg1/0JRdglC68axaFZch/y/Zr+QjoAAQ=


Good Luck!!
 

[bbc.reporter]

@TrueCryptonaire. How can you say that if growth starts to accelerate, the risk of a correction will be imminent? That is counterintuitive. Should it not be the opposite? If the growth is growing, the risk of a correction will become smaller and smaller.

I also want to ask how is the growth of Monero use in the darknet market place? Are more vendors using it?

I refered to the speculative bubbles which often pop. That being said, the bubbles pop at higher level than started initially.
In case of organic growth it is exponential indeed (if there are 2 people using it and each convince 1 people, the userbase is 4. But if 4 uses and convinces 1 user each, the growth is twice as high as it was 2 preachers preaching the good news).
Monero is far far from being a mature project in order to dumps being eaten by the markets. Bitcoin has reached closer to that point but even it is still too small for being stable. However, chances are good Monero will develope at faster rate than btc thanks to the second mover advantage.

I have no idea how much vendors use XMR but unfortunately we cannot prevent the junkies and criminals using the best alt.

Ok I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. That is natural in any market and we have to try our best to be in right side of it. In the topic of junkies and criminals using Monero, is it not exactly that where its real, organic value comes from? We have to accept that the perfect use case for anonymous cryptocoins is exactly for the darknet.

[Hueristic]

@TrueCryptonaire. How can you say that if growth starts to accelerate, the risk of a correction will be imminent? That is counterintuitive. Should it not be the opposite? If the growth is growing, the risk of a correction will become smaller and smaller.

I also want to ask how is the growth of Monero use in the darknet market place? Are more vendors using it?

I refered to the speculative bubbles which often pop. That being said, the bubbles pop at higher level than started initially.
In case of organic growth it is exponential indeed (if there are 2 people using it and each convince 1 people, the userbase is 4. But if 4 uses and convinces 1 user each, the growth is twice as high as it was 2 preachers preaching the good news).
Monero is far far from being a mature project in order to dumps being eaten by the markets. Bitcoin has reached closer to that point but even it is still too small for being stable. However, chances are good Monero will develope at faster rate than btc thanks to the second mover advantage.

I have no idea how much vendors use XMR but unfortunately we cannot prevent the junkies and criminals using the best alt.

Ok I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. That is natural in any market and we have to try our best to be in right side of it. In the topic of junkies and criminals using Monero, is it not exactly that where its real, organic value comes from? We have to accept that the perfect use case for anonymous cryptocoins is exactly for the darknet.

No we don't, the ability to have and hold value without monitoring is an inalienable right afa I'm concerned and i think everyone should hold that belief.

[ArticMine]

...

No we don't, the ability to have and hold value without monitoring is an inalienable right afa I'm concerned and i think everyone should hold that belief.

I agree. In addition privacy and anonymity are needed in order to ensure fungibility in crypto currencies, and fungibility is is a necessary requirement of money. Then there is of course the adaptive blocksize in Monero which ensures that there is no arbitrary limit on the number of transactions per second. 

[Hueristic]

...

No we don't, the ability to have and hold value without monitoring is an inalienable right afa I'm concerned and i think everyone should hold that belief.

I agree. In addition privacy and anonymity are needed in order to ensure fungibility in crypto currencies, and fungibility is is a necessary requirement of money. Then there is of course the adaptive blocksize in Monero which ensures that there is no arbitrary limit on the number of transactions per second. 

People in this scene don't know how important and rare this is.

[ozkraut]

...

No we don't, the ability to have and hold value without monitoring is an inalienable right afa I'm concerned and i think everyone should hold that belief.

I agree. In addition privacy and anonymity are needed in order to ensure fungibility in crypto currencies, and fungibility is is a necessary requirement of money. Then there is of course the adaptive blocksize in Monero which ensures that there is no arbitrary limit on the number of transactions per second. 

People in this scene don't know how important and rare this is.

People in the Monero scene dont know? I wouldnt think so. Quite a few appreciate the whole package. Even Satoshi is proud of it but cant say (;-)

[Hueristic]

...

No we don't, the ability to have and hold value without monitoring is an inalienable right afa I'm concerned and i think everyone should hold that belief.

I agree. In addition privacy and anonymity are needed in order to ensure fungibility in crypto currencies, and fungibility is is a necessary requirement of money. Then there is of course the adaptive blocksize in Monero which ensures that there is no arbitrary limit on the number of transactions per second. 

People in this scene don't know how important and rare this is.

People in the Monero scene dont know? I wouldnt think so. Quite a few appreciate the whole package. Even Satoshi is proud of it but cant say (;-)

LOL, the crypto scene as a whole.

[ArticMine]

...

People in this scene don't know how important and rare this is.

This is very true. Take for example the monetary policy move by ETC away from a tail emission similar to Monero to a falling emission similar to Bitcoin.

Good update on ETC developments: https://steemit.com/ethereum/@finpunk/ethereum-classic-gets-more-interesting-more-developers-and-a-new-monetary-policy

[ozkraut]

On another note:

seems some people outside of crypto are getting it:

http://wmstudios.com.au/index.php/news/blog/102-monero-is-the-currency-bitcoin-tried-to-be

[fiscorcle]

On another note:

seems some people outside of crypto are getting it:

http://wmstudios.com.au/index.php/news/blog/102-monero-is-the-currency-bitcoin-tried-to-be

People loooove it for the drugs. its on one of the biggest darknet markets now

[Chin Cheng]

On another note:

seems some people outside of crypto are getting it:

http://wmstudios.com.au/index.php/news/blog/102-monero-is-the-currency-bitcoin-tried-to-be

Monero is having the hype behind it being an anonymous coin which can be traded in the dark market, but the problem is people who trade in the onion markets are a few compared to the general public who sees bitcoin as a mode of investment rather than a currency and that is the biggest difference between the two.

[DaveyJones]

On another note:

seems some people outside of crypto are getting it:

http://wmstudios.com.au/index.php/news/blog/102-monero-is-the-currency-bitcoin-tried-to-be

Monero is having the hype behind it being an anonymous coin which can be traded in the dark market, but the problem is people who trade in the onion markets are a few compared to the general public who sees bitcoin as a mode of investment rather than a currency and that is the biggest difference between the two.

But that is also the biggest reason why monero could potentially skyrocket... what do people like with their investments... if they rise... what is most probable to rise nearest to BTC value, the altcoin that most people will call "The Next Bitcoin" thus this will make monero also kind of investment if people fear of missing the ship another time.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I have no idea how much vendors use XMR but unfortunately we cannot prevent the junkies and criminals using the best alt.

What is considered 'criminal behaviour' is very very relative in time and space, depends on who's in charge, societal climate etc etc... And yes, these people, whose behaviour has been outlawed will seek the best way to hide said behaviour... This is not something which anyone should seek to prevent, at least not by diminishing anonimity/privacy and thus fungibility in a currency

Criminal = outlawed.
If you live in Somalia which has no law and order there is obviously many things possible but if we look at the majority of countries, most of them has outlawed drugs and certain type of pornography for instance.
The criminal activity has partially ruined the reputation of bitcoin (many still think it is a currency of criminals) so it may not be good for the reputation in the beginning. Therefore, being accepted by the D.N.M. is kinda double edged sword: on the one hand it is nice that XMR has some real use case, on the other hand, it might create reputation to the XMR of being the currency of the bad guys.

This is the largest criminal asset of all time.



It has such a bad reputation no-one will accept it, right?

Well to be fair maybe gold is larger but the point still stands.

I think you are confusing with terms of crime and morals.
Dollar as a system can be perceived as immoral (stealing purchasing power by inflation) but it is not criminal because the legislators have approved it. It is also a social contract that the governement has a right to collect tax and inflation is one form of a tax, if I am not mistaken, even Ben Bernanke has admitted this.
In case you meant the use cases of dollars being used by the criminals, you are right in one way The majority of drug deals, hitman fees etc are paid with cold hard cash. That being said, the criminal use cases of Monero or bitcoin represents probably higher percentage than it represents in fiat. So it is relative also.

[Globb0]

@TrueCryptonaire. How can you say that if growth starts to accelerate, the risk of a correction will be imminent? That is counterintuitive. Should it not be the opposite? If the growth is growing, the risk of a correction will become smaller and smaller.

I also want to ask how is the growth of Monero use in the darknet market place? Are more vendors using it?

I refered to the speculative bubbles which often pop. That being said, the bubbles pop at higher level than started initially.
In case of organic growth it is exponential indeed (if there are 2 people using it and each convince 1 people, the userbase is 4. But if 4 uses and convinces 1 user each, the growth is twice as high as it was 2 preachers preaching the good news).
Monero is far far from being a mature project in order to dumps being eaten by the markets. Bitcoin has reached closer to that point but even it is still too small for being stable. However, chances are good Monero will develope at faster rate than btc thanks to the second mover advantage.

I have no idea how much vendors use XMR but unfortunately we cannot prevent the junkies and criminals using the best alt.

Ok I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. That is natural in any market and we have to try our best to be in right side of it. In the topic of junkies and criminals using Monero, is it not exactly that where its real, organic value comes from? We have to accept that the perfect use case for anonymous cryptocoins is exactly for the darknet.

Its one case. But really good is the ability to pay someone and not have then see everything you spent in the past or future or where, or how much you have etc.

[Dotto]

Loving the ping pong - enough volatility to hit a few of my sells and then drop a little so I can buy 'em back and accumulate MOAR!

XMR looking chipper though, Dotto - I trust you're well, Sir?

Fantastic, Kurious. A bit disconected from crypto this time, waiting for the big tide

[koryu]

looking for break out up here

[Globb0]

Loving the ping pong - enough volatility to hit a few of my sells and then drop a little so I can buy 'em back and accumulate MOAR!

XMR looking chipper though, Dotto - I trust you're well, Sir?

Fantastic, Kurious. A bit disconected from crypto this time, waiting for the big tide

Dunno how you make profit on tiny 1% shifts, don't the fees swallow all that?

[starmman]

Loving the ping pong - enough volatility to hit a few of my sells and then drop a little so I can buy 'em back and accumulate MOAR!

XMR looking chipper though, Dotto - I trust you're well, Sir?

Fantastic, Kurious. A bit disconected from crypto this time, waiting for the big tide

Dunno how you make profit on tiny 1% shifts, don't the fees swallow all that?

It'll still be possible to make a profit - but the exchanges percentage of your profits will be much higher. I didn't setup such a trading model yet - but plan to in the future.