Gigamining / Teramining

[Bitcoin Oz]

I dont see why you cant pay out to people who can prove they own a bitcoin address you previousy paid too.

Unless Im missing something obvious.

[1713516606]

1713516606

[Daily Anarchist]

I dont see why you cant pay out to people who can prove they own a bitcoin address you previousy paid too.

Unless Im missing something obvious.

Because, we lack faith in Nefario. If Nefario fudged the addresses and accounts, he may be sending coins to non-asset holders, such as Nefario.

[randomguy7]

Gigavps, how about other ways to prove ownership?
For example I only had gigamining shares in glbse, directly bought from you. I've withdrawn the weekly payments x bonds generated on every monday to address y. I've never bought any new shares or sold any, so the amounts transfered to y always are what x bonds generated.
I can sign a message for address y and confirm the information I used in the glbse claim process. If that information matches the information you got from nefario, I think that's pretty good prove of ownership.
Still I'd be willing to wait some time after submitting that information to make sure there are no other claims for these bonds (which probably would be there if I was a scammer).
I'd also be willing to donate some coins (if I get them back first) to recover some of the costs to squeeze the shareholder list out of nefario.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I dont see why you cant pay out to people who can prove they own a bitcoin address you previousy paid too.

Unless Im missing something obvious.

Because, we lack faith in Nefario. If Nefario fudged the addresses and accounts, he may be sending coins to non-asset holders, such as Nefario.

Then whats the point of listing on an exchange in the first place....

[Daily Anarchist]

I dont see why you cant pay out to people who can prove they own a bitcoin address you previousy paid too.

Unless Im missing something obvious.

Because, we lack faith in Nefario. If Nefario fudged the addresses and accounts, he may be sending coins to non-asset holders, such as Nefario.

Then whats the point of listing on an exchange in the first place....

Well, that's part of the debate.

I sort of feel that Giga should just see if the list he has matches the number of shares he knows are outstanding. If it does, just go with it. If somebody claims that they are on the list, and they AREN"T, then their anger should be directed at Nefario, not Giga.

[Deprived]

You also seems to not read anything I write. The list is a starting point. The list needs to be verified. I need to have legal recourse if things go awry. This is to protect all Gigaminers.

That's not true.

How does it protect a Gigaminer whose investment is worth less than the cost to notarise/apostille?

It protects you, there's a decent argument that it protects very large investors (especially ones not on the list provided by nefario) but it absolutely does not protect the interests of small investors.  Maybe edit it to "This is to protect myself and SOME gigaminers" - then at least it would be true.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Maybe the forum needs a tag that says "saved my own ass and came out roses".

[fcmatt]

I am really surprised I see no discussion of how much each bond should be bought back for now that glcrapbse is done.
Issue price seems reasonable times 1.05. Payable in btc of course with divs.

The operator should eat his dog food.

[superfastkyle]

seems to imply to me that he won't be buying bonds back, just another scammer who will continue to mine on the 150ghash we helped him buy

You can see all past and future dividends at http://gigamining.com. There have not been any decisions made about buybacks nor does the current contract enable this since the price to quote is from GLBSE.

or he could always just put the bonds on another exchange wait a few days for the price to collapse to almost nothing and then he will buy them back

[fcmatt]

seems to imply to me that he won't be buying bonds back, just another scammer who will continue to mine on the 150ghash we helped him buy

You can see all past and future dividends at http://gigamining.com. There have not been any decisions made about buybacks nor does the current contract enable this since the price to quote is from GLBSE.

Love how he quotes contracts when it can be manipulated to his benefit.
No glcrapbse. Thus go by issue price.
That way everyone can feel good about him keeping the hardware free and clear.

[MPOE-PR]

<snip>

The idea of only requiring ID of users over a certain (small) threshold may be a good one. After all, the logistics of organizing the scam (esp if the Nefario list is also used) aren't justified by obtaining a couple of shares. The problem that I can see is that there's no way to establish that threshold fairly, as anywhere you place it there will be some people who were *just* left out. Then again, maybe there is, who knows.

I guess gigavps is in the best position to know/find out from his lawyer if something like this is feasible at all. From what I've seen of the lists that were published, two thirds or more of the owners own one bitcoin's worth or less of shares.

[MPOE-PR]

That makes absolutely ZERO sense.

If you're willing to send the money to Bitcoin Foundation if they sign the message with their BTC address, then why can't they just do that and then you send THEM the bitcoins?  That's totally and utterly inconsistent.

Well, presumably because nobody would try to defraud him for the benefit of the Foundation.

[conspirosphere.tk]

If some people are unwilling to release their personal details and would rather sign a message with the associated btc address invalidating their claim, I think that those coins can be donated to the Bitcoin Foundation.

So you are ready to accept an email to give the coins to a third party but not to return them to their owners?
It makes sense.

Perhaps this is all a Bitcoin Foundation long con after all???

[Sukrim]

I don't really get how a lot of people should be able to produce "Tax IDs" (what are these exactly anyways?!) who live outside of the US.

Also the cost for an Apostille is far greater than any coins I could get back from my few gigamining (soon Teramining... remember?!) shares.

Thirdly, I really don't trust some random lawyer in the US (http://mylawyr.com/ <-- lol), please also send the information you require from us (picture ID, Tax ID, apostille...) stating that your company(?!!) actually IS engaged with this lawyer. The mail I received is NOT signed with any Bitcoin address used by gigamining, actually not signed at all and asks from me some information that is highly unreasonable to ask for something worth the equivalent of a few dozen bucks.

This is the last post you'll see from me in this matter, the remaining communication will be coming from my lawyer - and I hope a few US citizens also grow the balls to simply go to the police, report potential idendity theft and fraud and the chance that someone just wants to get away by pulling an LLC out of his rear end.

Oh, and a last point:
Currently there's no way to see which Bitcoin address one actually has submitted to GLBSE, so quite a few people might have problems even knowing it...

[theGECK]

One question that might be too early to ask:

Do you have the intent to allow people to sell/trade their shares on a private basis or on a platform you provide for that purpose after everything is sorted out, if legal counsel says it would be ok?

[BurtW]

Oh, and a last point:
Currently there's no way to see which Bitcoin address one actually has submitted to GLBSE, so quite a few people might have problems even knowing it...

I believe that if you got a BTC refund from GLBSE then it is the address that GLBSE used to send you the refund.  So assuming you got a refund of any ammount you should be able to locate the address.

However, if you did not get a refund then you might have an issue.

[Bitcoin Oz]

One question that might be too early to ask:

Do you have the intent to allow people to sell/trade their shares on a private basis or on a platform you provide for that purpose after everything is sorted out, if legal counsel says it would be ok?

Owning shares is ok. Trading them is where the shit hits the fan.

[Otoh]

I sent you & your lawyer an email reply, Please see how other bond issuers are dealing with this without the hassle & drama:

I know everyone has been itching for more information.  A lot of things have been going on behind the curtains, and I have been hesitant to share information that was not fact.  Now that I have some factual information (and I'm back from the holiday) I can share with you where we're at.

• Nefario sent me a partial list of bondholders.  I have been waiting for an updated list, but so far I have not received it.  The initial list was about 69,000 of the 100,000 bonds sold across 115 accounts.  I have since identified about another 26k of bonds that was held by a large shareholder.  Thus the list is close to 95k of the 100k bonds.  That's good enough for me to start to move forward.
• I will contact each of you in the coming week to confirm the information I have received and your payout address.  If you do not receive an email from my by Friday, then you were not in the bondholder list I received (also be sure to check your spam folder).
• Nefario has double paid some accounts and did not receive claims for all accounts, thus the discrepancy.  To ensure that all claims are valid, please make sure your claim has been filed.  If you received a payout for more than you were owed, you'll also have to work that out with Nefario.  I will rely exclusively on Nefario's list.
• I have started the process to relist BITBOND on cryptostocks.  I hope to have that done in the next week or so.
• I have not yet finalized a plan for the payouts since GLBSE closed.  I am exploring several options including a buyback and a free upgrade with higher payouts.  Unfortunately, because of the block reward change and my GPU mining costs, regular payouts will not be able to be resumed until I receive my ASIC.

I will post more information as I know it.  Thank you for your patience.

Edit: I do appreciate your efforts to get Nefario to release the info, especially if it was due to your lawyering up that tipped the balance.

[burnside]

One question that might be too early to ask:

Do you have the intent to allow people to sell/trade their shares on a private basis or on a platform you provide for that purpose after everything is sorted out, if legal counsel says it would be ok?

Owning shares is ok. Trading them is where the shit hits the fan.

I don't know Giga's financial situation, but he could probably avoid a lot of the calamity if he were to buy out anyone that wants out per the closest he could get to the terms in the original contract.  What was the 5d avg when GLBSE shut down?  This information should be easy to access via the CSV that other community members created of the GLBSE trade feed on twitter.

After he's bought out anyone that wants out then he can go about reshaping a new contract with anyone still interested in sticking around.

Swapping out terms, conditions, contractual obligations, etc, after the sale and without the permission of the bond holder is called a default.  Recommend reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance)  (specifically, the first few sentences, and the section on "strategic default".)

I don't have any Giga shares, but the precedent he's setting here worries me.  I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

Cheers.

[SAC]

I completely understand the desire to get everything legal but if you care at all, you start by closing out your existing contracts on their original terms, not by defaulting.

You cannot do anything legal by starting with a deception as its basis. It don't work that way you can only get legal relief from having stated the facts you know to be true in the proceeding sought. Any other course of action will be declared null and void once the deception is discovered and proved in a court of law.