evoorhees (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 01:47:55 AM |
|
I'll have fireduck comment on that HostFat - interesting problem.
|
|
|
|
evoorhees (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 01:48:26 AM |
|
Ahh crap someone just won 85 coins lol
|
|
|
|
kokojie
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 01:51:14 AM |
|
but seems he only net a few, what are the chances of this happening: Details 2012-05-04 01:41:53 lessthan 24000 dc1437f1 4533bc6a PENDING 50.00000000 WIN 135.41666666 6136 Details 2012-05-04 01:41:17 lessthan 24000 99f74b78 916d90a7 PENDING 25.00000000 LOSE 0.10223388 58594 Details 2012-05-04 01:40:54 lessthan 24000 b6872772 18e6539f PENDING 25.00000000 LOSE 0.10223388 53249 Details 2012-05-04 01:40:30 lessthan 24000 33ecd97d 83c8f192 PENDING 16.00000000 LOSE 0.06542968 61663 Details 2012-05-04 01:40:03 lessthan 24000 433586fe feecae28 PENDING 8.00000000 LOSE 0.03271484 50156 Details 2012-05-04 01:39:49 lessthan 24000 a86ad80a b37322bf PENDING 4.00000000 LOSE 0.01635742 37135 Details 2012-05-04 01:39:32 lessthan 24000 2537ae1e 9c3c70ae PENDING 2.00000000 LOSE 0.00817871 61231 Details 2012-05-04 01:39:21 lessthan 24000 2717bbeb 66051aa5 PENDING 1.00000000 LOSE 0.00408935 39306 Details 2012-05-04 01:38:59 lessthan 24000 49e50cf5 15e2712b PENDING 0.50000000 LOSE 0.00204467 31378 Details 2012-05-04 01:38:35 lessthan 24000 ad3e2f3f 3ca464cc UNKNOWN 0.25000000 LOSE 0.00102233 57358 Seems he lost 9 times in a roll, until the final win Ahh crap someone just won 85 coins lol
|
btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
|
|
|
finway
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 02:06:02 AM Last edit: May 04, 2012, 06:40:29 AM by finway |
|
What does "ABOVE MAX" mean ? Nice site!
What do 'UNKONW' mena ?
|
|
|
|
|
fireduck
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 04:09:09 AM |
|
I've posted a reply: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40264.msg881577#msg881577People on this forum might be interested in hearing it as well. tl;dr: Sometimes we double spend when something goes wrong. We are sorry and are trying to fix it. But it is not terrible since only one of them eventually gets into the chain and everyone gets paid as they should.
|
Bitrated user: fireduck.
|
|
|
beckspace
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 03:08:05 PM |
|
Great game! won some bitcents ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
|
|
|
|
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 05:11:06 PM |
|
Would there be a list of the keys and the secrets and each secret is published (i.e., 24 hours after it expired)? I ask this as if for some reason the service is offline, there is no other way to verify the results for a previous transaction as the secret is used in that verification process.
|
|
|
|
fireduck
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 05:21:23 PM |
|
Would there be a list of the keys and the secrets and each secret is published (i.e., 24 hours after it expired)?
I ask this as if for some reason the service is offline, there is no other way to verify the results for a previous transaction as the secret is used in that verification process.
That is a good idea. I could update a file in S3 on a daily basis with all the released secrets thus far. Would that do?
|
Bitrated user: fireduck.
|
|
|
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 05:35:40 PM |
|
That is a good idea. I could update a file in S3 on a daily basis with all the released secrets thus far. Would that do?
Sure would.
|
|
|
|
|
wachtwoord
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 05:50:27 PM |
|
but seems he only net a few, what are the chances of this happening: Details 2012-05-04 01:41:53 lessthan 24000 dc1437f1 4533bc6a PENDING 50.00000000 WIN 135.41666666 6136 Details 2012-05-04 01:41:17 lessthan 24000 99f74b78 916d90a7 PENDING 25.00000000 LOSE 0.10223388 58594 Details 2012-05-04 01:40:54 lessthan 24000 b6872772 18e6539f PENDING 25.00000000 LOSE 0.10223388 53249 Details 2012-05-04 01:40:30 lessthan 24000 33ecd97d 83c8f192 PENDING 16.00000000 LOSE 0.06542968 61663 Details 2012-05-04 01:40:03 lessthan 24000 433586fe feecae28 PENDING 8.00000000 LOSE 0.03271484 50156 Details 2012-05-04 01:39:49 lessthan 24000 a86ad80a b37322bf PENDING 4.00000000 LOSE 0.01635742 37135 Details 2012-05-04 01:39:32 lessthan 24000 2537ae1e 9c3c70ae PENDING 2.00000000 LOSE 0.00817871 61231 Details 2012-05-04 01:39:21 lessthan 24000 2717bbeb 66051aa5 PENDING 1.00000000 LOSE 0.00408935 39306 Details 2012-05-04 01:38:59 lessthan 24000 49e50cf5 15e2712b PENDING 0.50000000 LOSE 0.00204467 31378 Details 2012-05-04 01:38:35 lessthan 24000 ad3e2f3f 3ca464cc UNKNOWN 0.25000000 LOSE 0.00102233 57358 Seems he lost 9 times in a roll, until the final win Ahh crap someone just won 85 coins lol
Haha Martingale ftw!
|
|
|
|
sethsethseth
Sr. Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 257
Merit: 250
Not trusting third parties with my private keys
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 06:14:16 PM Last edit: May 04, 2012, 07:00:08 PM by sethsethseth |
|
i'm not getting anything back either. Love the idea though. Just saw the link on bitcoinwatch
[edit: just got the bitcoins back. now i get them back instantly when i send. so addicting]
|
SealsWithClubs poker room has over 400 players online. Buy in from .01 to 60btc. BTCSportsMatch lets you bet sports with vig free lines! Best kept secret in bitcoin.... LocalBitcoins.com is very user-friendly now for bank transfers. You don't have to live close to trade when in the same currency area. Electrum client is awesome. Try it. And please stop sending bitcoins to sites run by security newbies, or don't complain when you lose everything.
|
|
|
sethsethseth
Sr. Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 257
Merit: 250
Not trusting third parties with my private keys
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 07:16:05 PM |
|
Which android wallet should I get to wager with?
|
SealsWithClubs poker room has over 400 players online. Buy in from .01 to 60btc. BTCSportsMatch lets you bet sports with vig free lines! Best kept secret in bitcoin.... LocalBitcoins.com is very user-friendly now for bank transfers. You don't have to live close to trade when in the same currency area. Electrum client is awesome. Try it. And please stop sending bitcoins to sites run by security newbies, or don't complain when you lose everything.
|
|
|
|
twobitcoins
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 08:55:57 PM |
|
So, has anyone executed a double spend attack on SatoshiDice yet? The site claims it is not possible because the payout transaction depends on the bet transaction, so reversing the bet will also reverse the payout. But that doesn't prevent attacks: all you have to do is wait to see if you win or lose, then reverse the bet (and hence the payout) only if you lose. It could be done in a few ways:
1. Simple race: Try to connect to SatoshiDice as directly as possible, and as soon as you receive a losing payout, send a double spend of the bet transaction to any parts of the network that have not yet seen the original bet. The site could prevent this attack fairly effectively by introducing a small delay and sending the original bet transaction to as many nodes as possible (especially mining nodes).
2. Finney attack: Generate a block that contains a payment to yourself but don't distribute the block. Send the same coins to SatoshiDice. If you lose, distribute the block and reverse the losing bet. If you win, don't distribute the block. This attack requires you to give up the block reward in the case of a wining bet, so it is only effective if bets can be high enough. With current bet limits, it could be marginally profitable. If bets of say 1000 BTC were permitted, attackers would be all over that.
3. Mining attack: Place a bet as usual. If you lose, try to put a double spend of your bet transaction in the next block you generate. With a few percent of the network hash power, you could overcome the house edge and make a profit. Any decent sized mining pool could profit from this attack now, regardless of betting limits.
|
|
|
|
Stephen Gornick
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 11:07:29 PM Last edit: May 04, 2012, 11:28:19 PM by Stephen Gornick |
|
3. Mining attack: Place a bet as usual. If you lose, try to put a double spend of your bet transaction in the next block you generate. With a few percent of the network hash power, you could overcome the house edge and make a profit. Any decent sized mining pool could profit from this attack now, regardless of betting limits.
Yup, that make sense. You'ld get away with it just one time though before detection (presuming SatoshiDice is detecting these when they occur.) I doubt a pool would risk the negative goodwill on such a stunt. I suppose the service could apply a delay before the payout transaction when winning wagers are exceed a certain threshold to prevent this, and then also to limit total payouts per-block to a certain maximum, for instance, to limit the potential loss that could occur.
|
|
|
|
twobitcoins
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 11:15:49 PM |
|
One more possible attack: 4. Duplicate transactions: It is possible for the same transaction hash to occur more than once (see BIP 30 for details). Since the result of a bet depends only on the day's secret and the bet transaction hash, it is possible to place a bet and if it wins, repeat the same bet again within the same day. For example, prepare some transactions as follows: Mine a block with address A, then send the coins to B, then to C. Mine another block with address A and send the coins to B. Mine another block with address A and leave the coins there. Now you can send coins from C to SatoshiDice and if the bet is a win, place two more bets B->C->SatoshiDice and A->B->C->SatoshiDice. The site could prevent this attack easily though (perhaps even unintentionally, if it uses transaction hashes as keys in a database to determine whether a payout has been sent).
|
|
|
|
Otoh
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3052
Merit: 1160
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 04, 2012, 11:29:54 PM |
|
I like it, 99.182% return is 0.818% stupid tax, the best that I've heard of so far, gave it a try & lost 1 + 1+ 1+ 2 + 3 = 8 BTC on the <24000 36.62% game, oh well maybe I'll be lucky in love then instead ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
|
|
|
|
kokojie
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 05, 2012, 12:48:06 AM |
|
someone won over 100 btc today: Details 2012-05-04 17:16:52 lessthan 24000 4968982c 907ac27f CONFIRMED 61.00000000 WIN 165.20833333 979
|
btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
|
|
|
|