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 Author Topic: SatoshiDICE.com - The World's Most Popular Bitcoin Game  (Read 473252 times)
MPOE-PR
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 September 29, 2012, 04:02:36 PM

Can you develop an alternative game where the I can win what I actually rolled? for example, I rolled a 18, but my bet was on lessthan 64000, so I missed out on a potentially big payout. In this alternative game, if I roll a 16, then I get paid the 1998.853x multiplier or whatever multiplier that would be mathematically correct. I'd like to play this style.

If they paid 64000x for every zero, 31981.573x for every 1, etc. using the current payouts, the expected return per 1 BTC bet would be 9.3 BTC.

So to make a game with a small positive (1.9%) expectation for the house, but with the same proportions of the payouts, we need to scale the current multipliers back by 9.3 / 0.981.  I left the 'losing' return at 0.005, and slightly adjusted the 3rd decimal place of the payouts to make it work.  Then we get:

Code:
lessthan 1 6750.942x
lessthan 2 3373.527x
lessthan 4 1686.764x
lessthan 8 843.382x
lessthan 16 421.691x
lessthan 32 210.846x
lessthan 64 105.423x
lessthan 128   52.712x
lessthan 256   26.356x
lessthan 512   13.178x
lessthan 1000    6.747x
lessthan 1500    4.498x
lessthan 2000    3.374x
lessthan 3000    2.249x
lessthan 4000    1.687x
lessthan 6000    1.125x
lessthan 8000    0.844x
lessthan 12000    0.563x
lessthan 16000    0.422x
lessthan 24000    0.282x
lessthan 32000    0.211x
lessthan 32768    0.206x
lessthan 48000    0.141x
lessthan 52000    0.130x
lessthan 56000    0.121x
lessthan 60000    0.113x
lessthan 64000    0.106x
64000 or more    0.005x

Which gives pretty much the correct house edge:

Code:
>>> (
1 * 6750.942 +
1 * 3373.527 +
2 * 1686.764 +
4 *  843.382 +
8 *  421.691 +
16 *  210.846 +
32 *  105.423 +
64 *   52.712 +
128 *   26.356 +
256 *   13.178 +
488 *    6.747 +
500 *    4.498 +
500 *    3.374 +
1000 *    2.249 +
1000 *    1.687 +
2000 *    1.125 +
2000 *    0.844 +
4000 *    0.563 +
4000 *    0.422 +
8000 *    0.282 +
8000 *    0.211 +
768 *    0.206 +
15232 *    0.141 +
4000 *    0.130 +
4000 *    0.121 +
4000 *    0.113 +
4000 *    0.106 +
1536 *    0.005) / 65536

0.9810327911376953

Would people be willing to play a game where you need to roll less than 6000 to 'win'?  It means that less than one ticket in ten is a winning ticket.

No actually, this is a good idea!

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Herbert
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 September 30, 2012, 09:51:50 PM

I don't understand why you pay that small amount even when losing. What is the motivation?

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kano
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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

 October 01, 2012, 01:26:13 AM

I don't understand why you pay that small amount even when losing. What is the motivation?
You can't use a transaction twice ... without a lot of effort and only if done very soon after the original transaction.

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Bjork
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Look for the bear necessities!!

 October 01, 2012, 02:14:07 AM

lol, was going to play for a little bit and lost 7 times in a row as soon as i started.

That's all for today

Herbert
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 October 01, 2012, 08:44:57 AM

I don't understand why you pay that small amount even when losing. What is the motivation?
You can't use a transaction twice ... without a lot of effort and only if done very soon after the original transaction.
So this is for protecting against double-spend attacks? How does it help?

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dooglus
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 October 01, 2012, 04:19:17 PM

I don't understand why you pay that small amount even when losing. What is the motivation?

Imagine you send a bet and get nothing back.  Did you lose, or did your bet get lost or stuck somewhere?  You can't tell.

So they send a small amount back when you lose to let you know that the bet was processed successfully, and that you lost.

That way you're not left wondering whether their server is just being slow.

Quote
If you lose, the return your bet times 0.005

which looks like a typo to me - perhaps it should say 'they return your bet'?  Either way, the losing payment is half of 1 percent of your bet.

 Just-Dice ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ Play or Invest ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ 1% House Edge
evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack

 October 02, 2012, 12:37:02 AM

No - it's not a free bump - it's you trying to steal his customers and using his popularity without paying for it and then making up excuses for it.

... hopefully you lose business for doing this, not gain from it ...

No, it is just us letting people know these games are currently available. We hope to see SatoshiDice.com expand their select soon

I won't be posting on your thread that SatoshiDice's new website is about to launch... for example.
SRoulette
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 October 02, 2012, 02:09:53 AM

yawn

Man... if you're going to rip off my site, at least make a better looking one. Yours is an uglier version with a chat window and no ability to bet over 1btc

We did take your feed back on board and revamped most of our site, All games support bitcoin links for easy betting and we borrowed your idea of having a blockchain.info link for each address. The chat window and log window will be the last to get a face lift

We will not spam our games to your clients in your thread when players are asking for our games whose description  matches ours, but will will comment to say we do have those games.

We look forward to seeing your new site launch

kano
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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

 October 02, 2012, 04:00:25 AM

I don't understand why you pay that small amount even when losing. What is the motivation?
You can't use a transaction twice ... without a lot of effort and only if done very soon after the original transaction.
So this is for protecting against double-spend attacks? How does it help?
Well - sort of But not really ...

It means that the transaction process is complete - once the payment has been made, there will be no other transactions coming off your bet.

dooglus I guess worded it differently but better - you actually know the status of your bet - even when you lose.

But it goes one step further, the status can't change either.

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Herbert
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 October 02, 2012, 09:09:40 AM

I don't understand why you pay that small amount even when losing. What is the motivation?

Imagine you send a bet and get nothing back.  Did you lose, or did your bet get lost or stuck somewhere?  You can't tell.

So they send a small amount back when you lose to let you know that the bet was processed successfully, and that you lost.

That way you're not left wondering whether their server is just being slow.

It means that the transaction process is complete - once the payment has been made, there will be no other transactions coming off your bet.

dooglus I guess worded it differently but better - you actually know the status of your bet - even when you lose.

But it goes one step further, the status can't change either.

Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up!

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evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack

 October 02, 2012, 07:50:49 PM

September's dividend of 206.53002089 BTC has been paid on MPEX (and the GLBSE passthrough has been paid as well)

fireduck
Sr. Member

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 October 04, 2012, 05:40:10 PM

Can you develop an alternative game where the I can win what I actually rolled? for example, I rolled a 18, but my bet was on lessthan 64000, so I missed out on a potentially big payout. In this alternative game, if I roll a 16, then I get paid the 1998.853x multiplier or whatever multiplier that would be mathematically correct. I'd like to play this style.

If they paid 64000x for every zero, 31981.573x for every 1, etc. using the current payouts, the expected return per 1 BTC bet would be 9.3 BTC.

So to make a game with a small positive (1.9%) expectation for the house, but with the same proportions of the payouts, we need to scale the current multipliers back by 9.3 / 0.981.  I left the 'losing' return at 0.005, and slightly adjusted the 3rd decimal place of the payouts to make it work.  Then we get:

Code:
lessthan 1 6750.942x
lessthan 2 3373.527x
lessthan 4 1686.764x
lessthan 8 843.382x
lessthan 16 421.691x
lessthan 32 210.846x
lessthan 64 105.423x
lessthan 128   52.712x
lessthan 256   26.356x
lessthan 512   13.178x
lessthan 1000    6.747x
lessthan 1500    4.498x
lessthan 2000    3.374x
lessthan 3000    2.249x
lessthan 4000    1.687x
lessthan 6000    1.125x
lessthan 8000    0.844x
lessthan 12000    0.563x
lessthan 16000    0.422x
lessthan 24000    0.282x
lessthan 32000    0.211x
lessthan 32768    0.206x
lessthan 48000    0.141x
lessthan 52000    0.130x
lessthan 56000    0.121x
lessthan 60000    0.113x
lessthan 64000    0.106x
64000 or more    0.005x

Which gives pretty much the correct house edge:

Code:
>>> (
1 * 6750.942 +
1 * 3373.527 +
2 * 1686.764 +
4 *  843.382 +
8 *  421.691 +
16 *  210.846 +
32 *  105.423 +
64 *   52.712 +
128 *   26.356 +
256 *   13.178 +
488 *    6.747 +
500 *    4.498 +
500 *    3.374 +
1000 *    2.249 +
1000 *    1.687 +
2000 *    1.125 +
2000 *    0.844 +
4000 *    0.563 +
4000 *    0.422 +
8000 *    0.282 +
8000 *    0.211 +
768 *    0.206 +
15232 *    0.141 +
4000 *    0.130 +
4000 *    0.121 +
4000 *    0.113 +
4000 *    0.106 +
1536 *    0.005) / 65536

0.9810327911376953

Would people be willing to play a game where you need to roll less than 6000 to 'win'?  It means that less than one ticket in ten is a winning ticket.

That sounds like a really cool game and I don't see a crypto problem or any large barriers to implementation.
evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack

 October 06, 2012, 05:39:56 PM

Great news, the new SatoshiDICE site is now ready for some testing!!

http://src.satoshidice.com/rev2/

There is now live-feed data coming through. I'd be very grateful to anyone who checks out this new design and provides feedback (either technical issues or suggestions or any kind of comments).

After some feedback and after we've watched performance, we'll put this on the normal SatoshiDice.com domain.

Cheers!

sgravina
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 October 06, 2012, 06:49:00 PM

New site is pretty.

I still won't play.  Not until I get the 100 bitcoins I lost back.  And that is going to have to be by magic.  No more dice for me.

Even if I crack SHA256 and start mining all the bitcoins I still won't bet them on SatoshiDICE.
dooglus
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 October 06, 2012, 07:33:29 PM

I'd be very grateful to anyone who checks out this new design and provides feedback (either technical issues or suggestions or any kind of comments).

I sent you a PM with a bunch of comments a couple of weeks ago and received no response.  Not sure if you got it.

There's an issue with the live display of big losses:

* the amounts displayed are obviously too big
* the text doesn't fit in the box

 Just-Dice ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ Play or Invest ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ 1% House Edge
evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack

 October 06, 2012, 08:59:29 PM

I'd be very grateful to anyone who checks out this new design and provides feedback (either technical issues or suggestions or any kind of comments).

I sent you a PM with a bunch of comments a couple of weeks ago and received no response.  Not sure if you got it.

There's an issue with the live display of big losses:

* the amounts displayed are obviously too big
* the text doesn't fit in the box

Ah thanks Dooglus!

Yes I did receive that message and many of those suggestions will be included. I really appreciate the feedback
22bones
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 October 06, 2012, 10:13:39 PM

Yeah, a game needs to be made that more closely mimics a scratch off lotto ticket.  Multiple different prize levels to win with on transaction, and every transaction has a chance at a jackpot prize level.

Voila: BTCMultiplier.com.  The jackpot is a good idea...
Lurk
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 October 18, 2012, 07:35:05 AM

hey i just placed a couple bets...they both showed up as a win with a pop up on my bottom task bar.  when i looked at my transactions one of the wins disappeared? so it only paid me out for 1 win instead of 2.
tx numbers:
bet:          79f7b303876f2872d675748da3f366e7c5e44c35e1ef4a9677db47e8d2646aa2

missing a winner payout.   Thanks

wen i look up the payment transaction is says does not exist.    cbf22b626b12fdff8768be7287fd37a2c7f6830a482de3b62511fe85d8460d5e

  ok so it happened again  payment hash:
1a52e53113de780ebb7f18e7fcfda3b43533cdf64653fd13c9f07fca7ec19e1b

Think im done until this gets figured out.....please take a look eevorhees

VIP
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 October 18, 2012, 11:11:53 AM

Yeah, a game needs to be made that more closely mimics a scratch off lotto ticket.  Multiple different prize levels to win with on transaction, and every transaction has a chance at a jackpot prize level.

Voila: BTCMultiplier.com.  The jackpot is a good idea...
Voila: RippedMultiplier.com
fireduck
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 October 18, 2012, 05:06:35 PM

hey i just placed a couple bets...they both showed up as a win with a pop up on my bottom task bar.  when i looked at my transactions one of the wins disappeared? so it only paid me out for 1 win instead of 2.
tx numbers:
bet:          79f7b303876f2872d675748da3f366e7c5e44c35e1ef4a9677db47e8d2646aa2

missing a winner payout.   Thanks
edit

wen i look up the payment transaction is says does not exist.    cbf22b626b12fdff8768be7287fd37a2c7f6830a482de3b62511fe85d8460d5e

I'll look into why that second payment isn't being picked up by the network.  You will absolutely get it, it just might take some time.

http://satoshidice.com/lookup.php?tx=79f7b303876f2872d675748da3f366e7c5e44c35e1ef4a9677db47e8d2646aa2&limit=250&min_bet=0&status=ALL
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