CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded GPU kernels.

[joblo]

Now how "bad" is the TLB trashing in wine?
As bad as in windows
or as bad as in linux?

anyone knows?

I know TLB trashing is a hardware limit yet linux "behaves" best with windows 7 slightly behind it and
windows 8.1/10 is total garbage in this regard.

I don't know but if it affects mining perfornance I'd guess there is no difference given the performance
is the same.

I'm specutating* too much. I should stick to what I know.

*That's the second interesting typo today. I think i'll copyright it. It even works in this context as a
mix of speculating and spectating.

[Grim]

Also with all the memory intensive algos around us it would be great if we could optimize memory latency timings for nvidia gpus. The best way to do (or rather try) is to find the memory timings of each strap (specific frequency range) and apply eg. the faster lower timings from a lower frequency strap to a higher frequency strap.

In memory intensive algos this could boost hashrates by quite a bit.



It works wonders for amd cards as seen in eth mining.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1561372/hawaii-bios-editing-290-290x-295x2-390-390x

Under the tab: Memory Timings modding
you find the juicy info



Any nvidia guru who knows this stuff?

(It seems tho samsung memory with factory settings is already quite optimized, so not sure its worth looking into)

[sp_]

would the windows version run on Linux via wine? 

No - it accesses the GPU, which requires the driver libs, which call into the driver running in the Windows kernel mode eventually. Not fucking happening.

It's fucking happened already.
I've done it and confirmed I get full hash rate.
The GPU doesn't care what the host OS is, it's just given a binary file to run in it's own run time
environment. All it needs is a common driver interface to talk to the host.
As an FYI you can also compile cuda in a VM, either windows or linux. You don't need the drivers,
just the cuda tools. I've done that too.

Problem solved.

Wolf0, why don't you opensource some of your work? Your famous x11 bins have now been beaten 100% by the kochur bins.

[ldw-com]

would the windows version run on Linux via wine? 

No - it accesses the GPU, which requires the driver libs, which call into the driver running in the Windows kernel mode eventually. Not fucking happening.

It's fucking happened already.
I've done it and confirmed I get full hash rate.
The GPU doesn't care what the host OS is, it's just given a binary file to run in it's own run time
environment. All it needs is a common driver interface to talk to the host.
As an FYI you can also compile cuda in a VM, either windows or linux. You don't need the drivers,
just the cuda tools. I've done that too.

Problem solved.

Wolf0, why don't you opensource some of your work? Your famous x11 bins have now been beaten 100% by the kochur bins.

Old news sp, that has already changed 

[djm34]

would the windows version run on Linux via wine? 

No - it accesses the GPU, which requires the driver libs, which call into the driver running in the Windows kernel mode eventually. Not fucking happening.

It's fucking happened already.
I've done it and confirmed I get full hash rate.
The GPU doesn't care what the host OS is, it's just given a binary file to run in it's own run time
environment. All it needs is a common driver interface to talk to the host.
As an FYI you can also compile cuda in a VM, either windows or linux. You don't need the drivers,
just the cuda tools. I've done that too.

Problem solved.

Wolf0, why don't you opensource some of your work? Your famous x11 bins have now been beaten 100% by the kochur bins.

that sounds like a bad suggestion actually, if anyone as a faster method, there wouldn't be any point in opensourcing at that level (you should know considering you are asking for 0.1btc donation since last week for your private miner )

[Genoil]

Same problem in the cryptonight algo. Doesn't work on widows 10

Can this be fixed? Looking at the memory controller, on W8 it's maxed out... W10 it's at about 50% (which is definitely comparable to the performance I'm getting).

I prefer having a installation on w10 so I can see and report on changes/bugs comparable between algos and fix them

Curiously is anyone having problems with Ethminer and Windows 10? It seems like my w10 970 rig produces 8Mh/s and my W8.1 rigs all produce 17Mh/s... Not sure what's going on here.

Yesterday I upgraded ssd to one gaming rig which had gtx 970 and windows 10. Tested quickly ETH mining and yes, it was only hashing about 7-8MH. Thought I messed something during upgrade but after more testing realized that W10 kills hashrate.

My guess is MS has changed an API in W10 that requires all devs to modify their apps to comply.
They've done it before.

I'm only familiar with this issue on Ethminer, but I understand Cryptonight is a memory-heavy algo as well. The reason for this behavior is known as TLB trashing. The TLB is a unit found on CPU's and GPU's that translates virtual memory addresses into physical addresses. The TLB maintains a table of mappings from virtual memory pages to physical memory pages. When a kernel uses a lot of different addresses in a wide memory space, this table runs full, causing addresses that used to previous cached on the TLB to be removed (trashed) and to have to be retranslated (global memory replay). This causes a huge delay. Apparently there is a difference between Windows 7,8 and 10 with regards to this, most likely in page size. Using smaller page sizes, memory address lookups can be performed faster, but the TLB runs full quicker.

The reason that this didn't happen with Ethminer before, is because of the increasing DAG size. I wrote a test program a while back to identify the allocation size after which this behavior would start happening on any given combination of GPU and OS (it's in OpenCL, but there is no difference with CUDA). If I remember well, there actually isn't that much of a difference between Windows 8 and 10, but that may be different for GPU's that I don't own. For Nvidia hardware with Maxwell 2, the best solution is to use Windows 7 or Linux.

[antantti]

Genoil, some ETH coming your way. Been using your miner since last summer but never donated.

0xf01f74a1eb99be1aee7f58b6f1e83d89524d374babbcda2cd6f576c0d61c466d

[Vita1ico]

By thinking ..
ETH
970 100ME(elpida) - 22 Mh/s
960 100ME(samsung) -10 Mh/s
ethminer-cuda-0.9.41
Windows 8.1 x64

My 970 works 22Mh/s. 970 no 100ME- 17Mh/s.Assume the memory effect Elpida.

Windows 8.1x64 (970+960)-32Mhs
Windows 10x64 (970+960)-12Mhs
Windows 7x64 (970+960)-31.5Mhs

chart (1).jpeg

[sp_]

that sounds like a bad suggestion actually, if anyone as a faster method, there wouldn't be any point in opensourcing at that level (you should know considering you are asking for 0.1btc donation since last week for your private miner )

Actually, most of of my work the last 12 months has been opensource. I still submit some improvements to my github, but I keep some private. For the miners that have alot of money invested in maxwell gpu's,
0.1 BTC is nothing when the revenue is guaranteed to increase with a few percent. That's why I work on all algos..

[bensam1231]

Private kernal for sale. 0.1BTC

Release 2 sp-mod private (750ti) (faster than release 78)

x11: +2.4%
x13: +5.4%
x15: +4.5%
lyra2v2: +6.45%
quark: +3.2%
qubit: +2.3%

I wish I could code cuda.

I have added 2-300khash in the quark algo on gtx 970. Now peaking at 19.45mhash with +155 on the core.(g1 gaming). Will be included in sp-mod private 3

Ppl want a linux version. I don't want to release the sourcecode. So no linux. Switch to windows, or loose hashrate:)

wow ...

so you are willing to 'lose' the support of linux miners to try and push them towards windows? ...

not likely sp ... and something i will NEVER do with the total costs and instability and the sheer work involved in such a stupid thing as that - especially with a farm ...

if farm owners WANT to do that - then fine ... but those who will stick to linux - like me - will research ( or commission ) another way ...

no tanx - ill just add a few more powerful cards - and find a better way ...

#crysx

Kinda shitty to try to hide it behind the "I dun wanna release source" lie (the lie being the insinuation that linux support requires source.)

there has to be a better way of doing 'all this' wolf ...

im actually getting disheartened by the whole crypto scene the way it is - and its driving me to think about whether its a good idea to stay in the open like this - or fall into the background and just 'watch' the workings of development and crypto - while utilizing the offers that come our way on occasion ...

is it any wonder why the HUGE farms only get bigger? ...

not releasing YOUR source is one thing - not releasing OUR source is another ... which is exactly what oss is all about - its OURS ( as in the community ) ...

im linux all the way - and i wont change ... stubbornly refuse to give in to the closed system ... paid miners and paid software and paid systems are one thing ...

but to do this that sp is saying he wants to do - that has now got my nose out of joint also ... i wont bend to such things - and agree that it is not right to state such things with the purpose of holding the source code for private use only ... im a supporter of both oss AND the devs ... you know this - sp knows this - the community who know what im about know this ...

but thats statement is ludicrous ...

i just need to find and settle in my new place - and rebuild the new farm ... only a few months away ...

then we can talk business ...

#crysx

Most big miners run nix, this means farms. Most small miners are running Windows as it's easy to use and doesn't require a degree to fix.

I've not seen any stability issues in Windows in all the time I've spent mining. It will hash slower, but now days that seems negligible except for some weird niche cases (and sometimes it goes the opposite direction too).

Big miners get bigger because they have private kernel developers working for them and/or they have public private miners working for them (like Wolf0). With high entry fees to get a kernel, if they will sell it to you at all and you know they're selling it, most small miners are losing ground. This is why I pushed so much for a nice public miner with a fee. That's accessible to anyone, at any level, big or small.

This aside, its seems as though most developers that will work with the public community don't even want to make what the miners need, such as kernels for high demand algos. Right now for instance it's Eth, Spread, and X11 (if that can be brought up to speed). Eth especially right now is getting pushed hard. Miners don't get to choose what's profitable, that's up to the dice of the exchanges. No one can predict that.

Same problem in the cryptonight algo. Doesn't work on widows 10

Can this be fixed? Looking at the memory controller, on W8 it's maxed out... W10 it's at about 50% (which is definitely comparable to the performance I'm getting).

I prefer having a installation on w10 so I can see and report on changes/bugs comparable between algos and fix them

Curiously is anyone having problems with Ethminer and Windows 10? It seems like my w10 970 rig produces 8Mh/s and my W8.1 rigs all produce 17Mh/s... Not sure what's going on here.

Yesterday I upgraded ssd to one gaming rig which had gtx 970 and windows 10. Tested quickly ETH mining and yes, it was only hashing about 7-8MH. Thought I messed something during upgrade but after more testing realized that W10 kills hashrate.

My guess is MS has changed an API in W10 that requires all devs to modify their apps to comply.
They've done it before.

I'm only familiar with this issue on Ethminer, but I understand Cryptonight is a memory-heavy algo as well. The reason for this behavior is known as TLB trashing. The TLB is a unit found on CPU's and GPU's that translates virtual memory addresses into physical addresses. The TLB maintains a table of mappings from virtual memory pages to physical memory pages. When a kernel uses a lot of different addresses in a wide memory space, this table runs full, causing addresses that used to previous cached on the TLB to be removed (trashed) and to have to be retranslated (global memory replay). This causes a huge delay. Apparently there is a difference between Windows 7,8 and 10 with regards to this, most likely in page size. Using smaller page sizes, memory address lookups can be performed faster, but the TLB runs full quicker.

The reason that this didn't happen with Ethminer before, is because of the increasing DAG size. I wrote a test program a while back to identify the allocation size after which this behavior would start happening on any given combination of GPU and OS (it's in OpenCL, but there is no difference with CUDA). If I remember well, there actually isn't that much of a difference between Windows 8 and 10, but that may be different for GPU's that I don't own. For Nvidia hardware with Maxwell 2, the best solution is to use Windows 7 or Linux.

Hmmm... I can go back to W8, I'd just rather not do it in case a issue pops up in the future. There is no way of fixing this? I don't know enough about TLB usage to offer productive input on that.

Speaking of memory hard algos. I just tried Monero on my 970 on both w8 and w10, they produced very similar hashrates. Based on what you're talking about, this bug should be present in Monero as well? This could also be because Cryptonote was never optimized on Nvidia GPUs, but I assume it would manifest itself in some way.

[djm34]

Private kernal for sale. 0.1BTC

Release 2 sp-mod private (750ti) (faster than release 78)

x11: +2.4%
x13: +5.4%
x15: +4.5%
lyra2v2: +6.45%
quark: +3.2%
qubit: +2.3%

I wish I could code cuda.

I have added 2-300khash in the quark algo on gtx 970. Now peaking at 19.45mhash with +155 on the core.(g1 gaming). Will be included in sp-mod private 3

Ppl want a linux version. I don't want to release the sourcecode. So no linux. Switch to windows, or loose hashrate:)

wow ...

so you are willing to 'lose' the support of linux miners to try and push them towards windows? ...

not likely sp ... and something i will NEVER do with the total costs and instability and the sheer work involved in such a stupid thing as that - especially with a farm ...

if farm owners WANT to do that - then fine ... but those who will stick to linux - like me - will research ( or commission ) another way ...

no tanx - ill just add a few more powerful cards - and find a better way ...

#crysx

Kinda shitty to try to hide it behind the "I dun wanna release source" lie (the lie being the insinuation that linux support requires source.)

there has to be a better way of doing 'all this' wolf ...

im actually getting disheartened by the whole crypto scene the way it is - and its driving me to think about whether its a good idea to stay in the open like this - or fall into the background and just 'watch' the workings of development and crypto - while utilizing the offers that come our way on occasion ...

is it any wonder why the HUGE farms only get bigger? ...

not releasing YOUR source is one thing - not releasing OUR source is another ... which is exactly what oss is all about - its OURS ( as in the community ) ...

im linux all the way - and i wont change ... stubbornly refuse to give in to the closed system ... paid miners and paid software and paid systems are one thing ...

but to do this that sp is saying he wants to do - that has now got my nose out of joint also ... i wont bend to such things - and agree that it is not right to state such things with the purpose of holding the source code for private use only ... im a supporter of both oss AND the devs ... you know this - sp knows this - the community who know what im about know this ...

but thats statement is ludicrous ...

i just need to find and settle in my new place - and rebuild the new farm ... only a few months away ...

then we can talk business ...

#crysx

Most big miners run nix, this means farms. Most small miners are running Windows as it's easy to use and doesn't require a degree to fix.

I've not seen any stability issues in Windows in all the time I've spent mining. It will hash slower, but now days that seems negligible except for some weird niche cases (and sometimes it goes the opposite direction too).

Big miners get bigger because they have private kernel developers working for them and/or they have public private miners working for them (like Wolf0). With high entry fees to get a kernel, if they will sell it to you at all and you know they're selling it, most small miners are losing ground. This is why I pushed so much for a nice public miner with a fee. That's accessible to anyone, at any level, big or small.

This aside, its seems as though most developers that will work with the public community don't even want to make what the miners need, such as kernels for high demand algos. Right now for instance it's Eth, Spread, and X11 (if that can be brought up to speed). Eth especially right now is getting pushed hard. Miners don't get to choose what's profitable, that's up to the dice of the exchanges. No one can predict that.

Same problem in the cryptonight algo. Doesn't work on widows 10

Can this be fixed? Looking at the memory controller, on W8 it's maxed out... W10 it's at about 50% (which is definitely comparable to the performance I'm getting).

I prefer having a installation on w10 so I can see and report on changes/bugs comparable between algos and fix them

Curiously is anyone having problems with Ethminer and Windows 10? It seems like my w10 970 rig produces 8Mh/s and my W8.1 rigs all produce 17Mh/s... Not sure what's going on here.

Yesterday I upgraded ssd to one gaming rig which had gtx 970 and windows 10. Tested quickly ETH mining and yes, it was only hashing about 7-8MH. Thought I messed something during upgrade but after more testing realized that W10 kills hashrate.

My guess is MS has changed an API in W10 that requires all devs to modify their apps to comply.
They've done it before.

I'm only familiar with this issue on Ethminer, but I understand Cryptonight is a memory-heavy algo as well. The reason for this behavior is known as TLB trashing. The TLB is a unit found on CPU's and GPU's that translates virtual memory addresses into physical addresses. The TLB maintains a table of mappings from virtual memory pages to physical memory pages. When a kernel uses a lot of different addresses in a wide memory space, this table runs full, causing addresses that used to previous cached on the TLB to be removed (trashed) and to have to be retranslated (global memory replay). This causes a huge delay. Apparently there is a difference between Windows 7,8 and 10 with regards to this, most likely in page size. Using smaller page sizes, memory address lookups can be performed faster, but the TLB runs full quicker.

The reason that this didn't happen with Ethminer before, is because of the increasing DAG size. I wrote a test program a while back to identify the allocation size after which this behavior would start happening on any given combination of GPU and OS (it's in OpenCL, but there is no difference with CUDA). If I remember well, there actually isn't that much of a difference between Windows 8 and 10, but that may be different for GPU's that I don't own. For Nvidia hardware with Maxwell 2, the best solution is to use Windows 7 or Linux.

Hmmm... I can go back to W8, I'd just rather not do it in case a issue pops up in the future. There is no way of fixing this? I don't know enough about TLB usage to offer productive input on that.

again with these too long message to edit...  

just to react a bit: there is no high demand algo, it is just a question of timing and you can't switch project in the middle of the project because of some p&d scheme going on at an instant t on some unknown coin.

Second, some of you (especially you in fact ) need to realize that hashrate can't be increased indefinitely. We know where it is possible (roughly) to get some improvement but for some algos it would be too much work (hence not profitable for us) to develop. For ethereum,  development is stuck by the size of the dag file and nothing can really be done about it, because it is way too large for most of the cards... the alternative would be to recalculate part of the dag element (actually I tried it...) but it is then too slow, because there are very large loop...)
So no matter how much you want a better eth miner, there are constraints which limit any kind of development at that level.

[ldw-com]

Most big miners run nix, this means farms. Most small miners are running Windows as it's easy to use and doesn't require a degree to fix.

I've not seen any stability issues in Windows in all the time I've spent mining. It will hash slower, but now days that seems negligible except for some weird niche cases (and sometimes it goes the opposite direction too).

Big miners get bigger because they have private kernel developers working for them and/or they have public private miners working for them (like Wolf0). With high entry fees to get a kernel, if they will sell it to you at all and you know they're selling it, most small miners are losing ground. This is why I pushed so much for a nice public miner with a fee. That's accessible to anyone, at any level, big or small.

This aside, its seems as though most developers that will work with the public community don't even want to make what the miners need, such as kernels for high demand algos. Right now for instance it's Eth, Spread, and X11 (if that can be brought up to speed). Eth especially right now is getting pushed hard. Miners don't get to choose what's profitable, that's up to the dice of the exchanges. No one can predict that.

I agree on the part where devs modify whatever they feel like. In a way, it's their right to do so. If they want to make more money. yeah, they should mod whatever is most profitable. And there are out there that do so. But mostly not in public ;-)

And as stated above, in some cases, it just isn't worth the time/effort.

[Genoil]

Genoil, some ETH coming your way. Been using your miner since last summer and never donated.

0xf01f74a1eb99be1aee7f58b6f1e83d89524d374babbcda2cd6f576c0d61c466d

Thanks a lot!

[sp_]

This aside, its seems as though most developers that will work with the public community don't even want to make what the miners need, such as kernels for high demand algos. Right now for instance it's Eth, Spread, and X11 (if that can be brought up to speed). Eth especially right now is getting pushed hard. Miners don't get to choose what's profitable, that's up to the dice of the exchanges. No one can predict that.

I am making miners for high demand algos.

I have 4 private miners for the people who donate.

1. 0.1BTC: Pentablake +100-120%
2. 0.1BTC: Cryptonight +10%
3. 0.1BTC: Spreadcoin +10-20%
4. 0.1BTC: All nicehash algos optimized. 0-7%  (x11 +2.4% (faster than release 74 ) on the 750ti)

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I'm having trouble getting ccminer.exe to run in WINE. I looked through the threads a bit after failing to get it to work. Seems there are mixed results out there.

Code:

wine ccminer.exe -q -a quark -o stratum+tcp://stratum............

get error

Code:

Driver does not support CUDA 5.5 API! Update your nVidia driver!

Card is GTX-750ti, OS Xubuntu 14.04, CUDA 7.5, nVidia driver 352.68. Pretty sure that's all up to date. What am I missing?

[djm34]

I'm having trouble getting ccminer.exe to run in WINE. I looked through the threads a bit after failing to get it to work. Seems there are mixed results out there.

Code:

wine ccminer.exe -q -a quark -o stratum+tcp://stratum............

get error

Code:

Driver does not support CUDA 5.5 API! Update your nVidia driver!

I'm running Xubuntu 14.04, CUDA 7.5, nVidia driver 352.68. Pretty sure that's all up to date. What am I missing?

why do you even want to run it under wine... you have to compile it for linux... 

[sp_]

I'm having trouble getting ccminer.exe to run in WINE. I looked through the threads a bit after failing to get it to work. Seems there are mixed results out there.

Code:

wine ccminer.exe -q -a quark -o stratum+tcp://stratum............

get error

Code:

Driver does not support CUDA 5.5 API! Update your nVidia driver!

Card is GTX-750ti, OS Xubuntu 14.04, CUDA 7.5, nVidia driver 352.68. Pretty sure that's all up to date. What am I missing?

Ask jublo, he made it working. Wich ccminer exe file are you trying to run?

would the windows version run on Linux via wine?  

No - it accesses the GPU, which requires the driver libs, which call into the driver running in the Windows kernel mode eventually. Not fucking happening.

It's fucking happened already.
I've done it and confirmed I get full hash rate.
The GPU doesn't care what the host OS is, it's just given a binary file to run in it's own run time
environment. All it needs is a common driver interface to talk to the host.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I'm having trouble getting ccminer.exe to run in WINE. I looked through the threads a bit after failing to get it to work. Seems there are mixed results out there.

Code:

wine ccminer.exe -q -a quark -o stratum+tcp://stratum............

get error

Code:

Driver does not support CUDA 5.5 API! Update your nVidia driver!

I'm running Xubuntu 14.04, CUDA 7.5, nVidia driver 352.68. Pretty sure that's all up to date. What am I missing?

why do you even want to run it under wine... you have to compile it for linux... 

Because I don't think sp_ wants to sell his private kernel as source code. If I'm wrong about that I'd much prefer to compile it myself.

[bensam1231]

again with these too long message to edit...  

just to react a bit: there is no high demand algo, it is just a question of timing and you can't switch project in the middle of the project because of some p&d scheme going on at an instant t on some unknown coin.

Second, some of you (especially you in fact ) need to realize that hashrate can't be increased indefinitely. We know where it is possible (roughly) to get some improvement but for some algos it would be too much work (hence not profitable for us) to develop. For ethereum,  development is stuck by the size of the dag file and nothing can really be done about it, because it is way too large for most of the cards... the alternative would be to recalculate part of the dag element (actually I tried it...) but it is then too slow, because there are very large loop...)
So no matter how much you want a better eth miner, there are constraints which limit any kind of development at that level.

When the market for Feather gets pushed up for 3-4 months, it's probably a good sign that miners will be mining it with Neoscrypt. As I mentioned before, just looking at whattomine would give you a pretty good idea of what's in demand. Some coins are not on What though like Ethereum (despite requesting it a few times) and Spread.

Now that Cryptsy crashed and Feathercoin is pretty much obliterated, there is no demand for Neoscrypt, which means almost no one will be looking to buy a miner for it. You can always market this as 'donations', but that's not what people want or need.

Making a product is a two way relationship. Both the maker and the user have to benefit. Just making something because you feel like it, then complaining when people don't donate doesn't help anyone. You need to eat, I need to eat, I mine whatever is most profitable, you help me make more profits, I help you eat too. It's not too complicated. Right now that's Ethereum and Spread. If x11 could be improved that definitely would be a bread winner too.

I'm all for a miner fee to support you guys long run too and just use whoevers miner is faster (or hopefully a combination miner that everyone can get paid from). In particular, this should hold a lot of interest for you as a developer. It means however much you improve a miner is how much you get paid and just having the fastest miner means you will make money off of it, regardless of how much faster it is then the competition (within reason). If it's just 2% faster then the competition, then a miner fee would be paid for. Claymore marketed his miner this way and it worked quite well.


I've read the thread (and keep up with SP's thread on a regular basis) about Ethereum and I realize there are development hurdles, that doesn't change that it's in demand and if someone figures out how to get around it with some sort of clever trick they'll reap rewards for it. Considering AMD hardware seems to max out at 30Mhs and Nvidia stuff about 30% less, there may be room for improvement to get around the whole memory controller exploding. Even if you can't do it, someone else may come along who might be able to by doing something you never thought of, so it needs to be talked about...

Currently we were talking about Ethminer not working as well in W8 compared to W10, which is a bug and it may or may not be able to be figured out, but we wont be able to tell until things are looked at more thoroughly.

I agree on the part where devs modify whatever they feel like. In a way, it's their right to do so. If they want to make more money. yeah, they should mod whatever is most profitable. And there are out there that do so. But mostly not in public ;-)

And as stated above, in some cases, it just isn't worth the time/effort.

Yup... I understand they can do what they want, but when it comes down to it and people need to profit, we need to talk about what really needs to be done. Right now SP's working on pretty much everything and I would like to buy his private miner, but nothing he's making is more profitable... It's a bad business decision for me. Maybe in the future when something he's making becomes more profitable then say Eth or Spread, I'll buy his miner.

I would love to either buy a miner or use a miner with a miner fee that earns me more money. Everyone profits! It's the best sort of business relationship. I'm sure there are plenty of big farms with their own employed kernel devs working on x11 even if they rather work on Lyra right now or something.

[djm34]

again with these too long message to edit... 

just to react a bit: there is no high demand algo, it is just a question of timing and you can't switch project in the middle of the project because of some p&d scheme going on at an instant t on some unknown coin.

Second, some of you (especially you in fact ) need to realize that hashrate can't be increased indefinitely. We know where it is possible (roughly) to get some improvement but for some algos it would be too much work (hence not profitable for us) to develop. For ethereum,  development is stuck by the size of the dag file and nothing can really be done about it, because it is way too large for most of the cards... the alternative would be to recalculate part of the dag element (actually I tried it...) but it is then too slow, because there are very large loop...)
So no matter how much you want a better eth miner, there are constraints which limit any kind of development at that level.

When the market for Feather gets pushed up for 3-4 months, it's probably a good sign that miners will be mining it with Neoscrypt. As I mentioned before, just looking at whattomine would give you a pretty good idea of what's in demand. Some coins are not on What though like Ethereum (despite requesting it a few times) and Spread.

Now that Cryptsy crashed and Feathercoin is pretty much obliterated, there is no demand for Neoscrypt, which means almost no one will be looking to buy a miner for it. You can always market this as 'donations', but that's not what people want or need.

Making a product is a two way relationship. Both the maker and the user have to benefit. Just making something because you feel like it, then complaining when people don't donate doesn't help anyone. You need to eat, I need to eat, I mine whatever is most profitable, you help me make more profits, I help you eat too. It's not too complicated. Right now that's Ethereum and Spread. If x11 could be improved that definitely would be a bread winner too.

I'm all for a miner fee to support you guys long run too and just use whoevers miner is faster (or hopefully a combination miner that everyone can get paid from). In particular, this should hold a lot of interest for you as a developer. It means however much you improve a miner is how much you get paid and just having the fastest miner means you will make money off of it, regardless of how much faster it is then the competition (within reason). If it's just 2% faster then the competition, then a miner fee would be paid for. Claymore marketed his miner this way and it worked quite well.


I've read the thread (and keep up with SP's thread on a regular basis) about Ethereum and I realize there are development hurdles, that doesn't change that it's in demand and if someone figures out how to get around it with some sort of clever trick they'll reap rewards for it. Considering AMD hardware seems to max out at 30Mhs and Nvidia stuff about 30% less, there may be room for improvement to get around the whole memory controller exploding. Even if you can't do it, someone else may come along who might be able to by doing something you never thought of, so it needs to be talked about...

Currently we were talking about Ethminer not working as well in W8 compared to W10, which is a bug and it may or may not be able to be figured out, but we wont be able to tell until things are looked at more thoroughly.

I agree on the part where devs modify whatever they feel like. In a way, it's their right to do so. If they want to make more money. yeah, they should mod whatever is most profitable. And there are out there that do so. But mostly not in public ;-)

And as stated above, in some cases, it just isn't worth the time/effort.

Yup... I understand they can do what they want, but when it comes down to it and people need to profit, we need to talk about what really needs to be done. Right now SP's working on pretty much everything and I would like to buy his private miner, but nothing he's making is more profitable... It's a bad business decision for me. Maybe in the future when something he's making becomes more profitable then say Eth or Spread, I'll buy his miner.

I would love to either buy a miner or use a miner with a miner fee that earns me more money. Everyone profits! It's the best sort of business relationship. I'm sure there are plenty of big farms with their own employed kernel devs working on x11 even if they rather work on Lyra right now or something.

can I have the executive summary ?