GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[welchy8764]

Does this guy know what he is talking about? From this post on HT

https://hashtalk.org/topic/15099/i-think-i-figured-out-josh-s-plan

So lets say you're a big retailer, take Amazon for example. Sure, they could accept bitcoin, it's just software. But they wont, because your investment can go down as well as up. Amazon are not going to sell things for a currency that could be worthless tomorrow. Bitcoin has value right now, but tomorrow the price could fall to pennies and never come back up. This is true of all investments, not just bitcoin

Its my understanding that company's like newegg, overstock.com etc. are hosted by company's like coinbase etc. and transactions are managed and converted to fiat for the seller instantly at current BTC value, thus there is no risk for seller, coinbase excepts all the risk of BTC "falling to pennies" as he says in his HT post. lol So I guess his assumption is wrong or he is just uninformed. The retailer holds no BTC   

He needs to do his homework a little more.

Yes and no.  The point is that these companies are simply dumping for fiat, as you say instead of holding the crypto.  Insta dumping hurts the value.

GAW's vision is to create a stable coin so these companies won't immediately dump.  It's going to take time to get companies on board with this.

A company will never hold crypto. It doesn't matter if it's bitcoin or paycoin. Crypto will always be too volatile compared to FIAT, no matter how much you try to financially back it. A free market is a free market, you cannot control the price of a coin forever. In this sense, paycoin will never truly be useful at all. Bitcoin already does a fine job of being used for transactions because of payment processors like Coinbase.

GAW is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I'm sorry but it absolutely will not catch on anywhere besides the inner circle of Hashtalk.

I'm in agreement the financial cost alone to switch to any other type of currency that can't be immediately converted to fiat would sway them away. Main street will never switch, Thats a given.. The biggest question is WHY? Why switch? what benefit out weighs the current system. For the individual there are benefits for company's their are no benefits

[lothendriel]

I think anyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is doing a good thing. Bitcoin has made it's leaps and bounds. Bitcoin payments on websites, ATMs, etc. Why slam another crypto for trying to do the same thing? Josh has said they will absolutely not sell out. It's all over the forums where he's stated this. Slamming Paycoin and Gaw for wanting to help bring the crypto world to the average person is a slap in the face to the whole community. We need to support each other not kick each other in the teeth. And PayCoin won't outdo Bitcoin. There will still be plenty of room for Bitcoin to thrive.

I don't see what the big fuss is. Can't we all just get along and work together?

[wdl1908]

@bitcoinnoisseur

It is not that bitcoin is not viable. But the model bitcoin mining and dumping that is not viable. Also the merchants shops etc that accept bitcoin and dump it to fiat is not viable. Look at the price of bitcoin in the last few months.

The model has to change and that is what GAW is trying to accomplish.

[SlientBit]

MagNaMan

... drowned out by the cult of blind-faith believers in anything and everything ...

Now, this never happens in here, does it? The irony is insane!

There is no other crypto-related forum where "blind-faith believers" hangout more than this one ... (maybe some reddit ones, but this is still huge on that)
It's usually bloody, useless, messy and downright outrageous the way *most* threads in here tend up to be ...
It has come to a point where it's utterly impossible to find a decent thread, where people behave rationally and are actually trying to discuss things ...

Thank you for that pearl of a speech! Such wisdom and enlightenment! Now I completely understand Scoot's arguments!
It's not personal, mind you, it's just that I can't read what you wrote and not comment that specific affirmation. But I'm glad that you're able to do it and that I'm able to give you this feedback.

Hell, there's hardly any chance of ever getting some thread in here that's actually useful for all that participate and/or read it. This one was botched like most.

Scott, sorry, your intentions were certainly good, you have a concern that you want to share - whether or not I agree, sympathize, love, hate, despise, whatever, with your point of viewand claims ... I was happy to see you willing to discuss and clarify.
Guess this forum just wasn't adequate. Perhaps you may find another venue that's better suited. Elsewhere.

Thanks anyway.

[DirtFighter]

@lothendriel

It just makes me sad kind of to see people within the community as a whole fighting each other. I don't know about you but the main reason I got into crypto was to support the cause. Of course there's money to be made but if all we focus on is the money then we're no better than the corrupt banking & financial institutions that the crypto movement was was invented to counter in the first place.

Since I can't reply to you on HT I'll do it here. You honestly believe that GAW gives a rats ass about crypto-currency as a whole and not just to make as much money as fast as they can so Josh can sell the company for billions as he has already stated? He is badmouthing bitcoin calling it not viable and that paycoin will fix everything and blow bitcoin away. He has the majority of HT users believing that. This is what you think is good for crypto-currencies as a whole?

I honestly think GAW gives a shit about crypto. Yes they are in business to make money...who isn't? Josh has not bad mouthed BTC and has stated Paycoin should compliment it and help make it more main stream. The goal is to make it easy for any one to use. Do you not think that will bring new people to crypto? BTC is easy for you and me to use because we have been in the game...How many times have you tried to explain BTC to a newbie and got a glossed over stare? PC will introduce crypto to new people and those new people will find interest in other alts including BTC.

[corygto]

@bitcoinnoisseur

It is not that bitcoin is not viable. But the model bitcoin mining and dumping that is not viable. Also the merchants shops etc that accept bitcoin and dump it to fiat is not viable. Look at the price of bitcoin in the last few months.

The model has to change and that is what GAW is trying to accomplish.

And how are they going to change that?

In a free market, you cannot control the price of the coin. There will be no incentive to keep Paycoin when it's not as stable as FIAT.

Literally nothing is going to change with paycoin, you are just creating a clone that is not needed.

[suchmoon]

Does this guy know what he is talking about? From this post on HT

https://hashtalk.org/topic/15099/i-think-i-figured-out-josh-s-plan

So lets say you're a big retailer, take Amazon for example. Sure, they could accept bitcoin, it's just software. But they wont, because your investment can go down as well as up. Amazon are not going to sell things for a currency that could be worthless tomorrow. Bitcoin has value right now, but tomorrow the price could fall to pennies and never come back up. This is true of all investments, not just bitcoin

Its my understanding that company's like newegg, overstock.com etc. are hosted by company's like coinbase etc. and transactions are managed and converted to fiat for the seller instantly at current BTC value, thus there is no risk for seller, coinbase excepts all the risk of BTC "falling to pennies" as he says in his HT post. lol So I guess his assumption is wrong or he is just uninformed. The retailer holds no BTC   

He needs to do his homework a little more.

Yes and no.  The point is that these companies are simply dumping for fiat, as you say instead of holding the crypto.  Insta dumping hurts the value.

GAW's vision is to create a stable coin so these companies won't immediately dump.  It's going to take time to get companies on board with this.

Dumping by retailers is mostly neutral. The coins are either acquired just for the transfer purposes, or would have been dumped by the buyer to be able to buy the product for fiat, if the retailer wouldn't accept crypto. Actually it probably reduces the selling pressure a little bit, because the coins are being held a little bit longer, if only for a few seconds.

This can expand into retailer-supplier payments etc, and all that would have a positive effect on stability. That's sustainable albeit slow growth. Artificial incentives like super-high-yield deposits are not sustainable.

[corygto]

@lothendriel

It just makes me sad kind of to see people within the community as a whole fighting each other. I don't know about you but the main reason I got into crypto was to support the cause. Of course there's money to be made but if all we focus on is the money then we're no better than the corrupt banking & financial institutions that the crypto movement was was invented to counter in the first place.

Since I can't reply to you on HT I'll do it here. You honestly believe that GAW gives a rats ass about crypto-currency as a whole and not just to make as much money as fast as they can so Josh can sell the company for billions as he has already stated? He is badmouthing bitcoin calling it not viable and that paycoin will fix everything and blow bitcoin away. He has the majority of HT users believing that. This is what you think is good for crypto-currencies as a whole?

I honestly think GAW gives a shit about crypto. Yes they are in business to make money...who isn't? Josh has not bad mouthed BTC and has stated Paycoin should compliment it and help make it more main stream. The goal is to make it easy for any one to use. Do you not think that will bring new people to crypto? BTC is easy for you and me to use because we have been in the game...How many times have you tried to explain BTC to a newbie and got a glossed over stare? PC will introduce crypto to new people and those new people will find interest in other alts including BTC.

Actually Josh has specifically stated that BTC has "failed" and is "not viable".

That sounds like badmouthing if I've ever heard it.

[onewiseguy]

@bitcoinnoisseur

It is not that bitcoin is not viable. But the model bitcoin mining and dumping that is not viable. Also the merchants shops etc that accept bitcoin and dump it to fiat is not viable. Look at the price of bitcoin in the last few months.

The model has to change and that is what GAW is trying to accomplish.

true any merchant that accepts BTC as payment probably does not hold it but exchange it for fiat.  


well lets hope GAW does to it help btc and cryptocurrency and not just about making their pockets bigger spoke to josh couple of times when he was just selling hardware good guy. But again good guys arnt always the honest guys.

[DirtFighter]

Does this guy know what he is talking about? From this post on HT

https://hashtalk.org/topic/15099/i-think-i-figured-out-josh-s-plan

So lets say you're a big retailer, take Amazon for example. Sure, they could accept bitcoin, it's just software. But they wont, because your investment can go down as well as up. Amazon are not going to sell things for a currency that could be worthless tomorrow. Bitcoin has value right now, but tomorrow the price could fall to pennies and never come back up. This is true of all investments, not just bitcoin

Its my understanding that company's like newegg, overstock.com etc. are hosted by company's like coinbase etc. and transactions are managed and converted to fiat for the seller instantly at current BTC value, thus there is no risk for seller, coinbase excepts all the risk of BTC "falling to pennies" as he says in his HT post. lol So I guess his assumption is wrong or he is just uninformed. The retailer holds no BTC   

He needs to do his homework a little more.

Yes and no.  The point is that these companies are simply dumping for fiat, as you say instead of holding the crypto.  Insta dumping hurts the value.

GAW's vision is to create a stable coin so these companies won't immediately dump.  It's going to take time to get companies on board with this.

A company will never hold crypto. It doesn't matter if it's bitcoin or paycoin. Crypto will always be too volatile compared to FIAT, no matter how much you try to financially back it. A free market is a free market, you cannot control the price of a coin forever. In this sense, paycoin will never truly be useful at all. Bitcoin already does a fine job of being used for transactions because of payment processors like Coinbase.

GAW is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I'm sorry but it absolutely will not catch on anywhere besides the inner circle of Hashtalk.

I'm in agreement the financial cost alone to switch to any other type of currency that can't be immediately converted to fiat would sway them away. Main street will never switch, Thats a given.. The biggest question is WHY? Why switch? what benefit out weighs the current system. For the individual there are benefits for company's their are no benefits

The cost will be minimal. It is going to use already existing payment platforms. If a business accepts BTC the will be able to accept PC. The new coin will be able to loaded onto a debit card and used in existing card readers. the benefit to a company is huge...fees in the pennies instead of 2-3% of the transaction. When the bean counters figure out to accept the coin will reduce the fees to accept CC payments what do  you think will happen? 2-3% to a tier 1 major retailer is a lot of money.

[lothendriel]

@bitcoinnoisseur

It is not that bitcoin is not viable. But the model bitcoin mining and dumping that is not viable. Also the merchants shops etc that accept bitcoin and dump it to fiat is not viable. Look at the price of bitcoin in the last few months.

The model has to change and that is what GAW is trying to accomplish.

And how are they going to change that?

In a free market, you cannot control the price of the coin. There will be no incentive to keep Paycoin when it's not as stable as FIAT.

Literally nothing is going to change with paycoin, you are just creating a clone that is not needed.

And who said FIAT was stable? FIAT is as stable as Michael J Fox in the full thores of a Parkinsons fit. The only reason it appears to be stable is because fake money keeps getting printed to support the illusion of stability.

I just think our time and energy could be put to better use developing all our forms of crypto rather than fighting each other is all I'm saying because one day that FIAT is going to be as useful as the paper I wipe my backside with and we'll need something like the cryptocurrencies

[bitcoinnoisseur]

I think anyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is doing a good thing. Bitcoin has made it's leaps and bounds. Bitcoin payments on websites, ATMs, etc. Why slam another crypto for trying to do the same thing? Josh has said they will absolutely not sell out. It's all over the forums where he's stated this. Slamming Paycoin and Gaw for wanting to help bring the crypto world to the average person is a slap in the face to the whole community. We need to support each other not kick each other in the teeth. And PayCoin won't outdo Bitcoin. There will still be plenty of room for Bitcoin to thrive.

I don't see what the big fuss is. Can't we all just get along and work together?

Everyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is NOT a good idea when there are people doing it maliciously to gain quick wealth at the cost of anyone they can get money from. Actually NO we can't all just get along and work together. This is the real world and not fantasy. Fantasy is what seems to drive this entire paycoin endeavor from almost all devs that didn't possess the power to either understand it or to make it a reality. Fantasy is believing that devs were found and paid YET did such a shitty job that Josh had to go begging his customers to figure it out and fix it. Fantasy is believing that huge VC's and bankers backed paycoin based on his business model and not the technology YET Josh is now running a contest with his customers to come up with the very business model that he supposedly already sold. We do agree however that paycoin will NOT outdo bitcoin.

[wdl1908]

@bitcoinnoisseur

It is not that bitcoin is not viable. But the model bitcoin mining and dumping that is not viable. Also the merchants shops etc that accept bitcoin and dump it to fiat is not viable. Look at the price of bitcoin in the last few months.

The model has to change and that is what GAW is trying to accomplish.

And how are they going to change that?

In a free market, you cannot control the price of the coin. There will be no incentive to keep Paycoin when it's not as stable as FIAT.

Literally nothing is going to change with paycoin, you are just creating a clone that is not needed.

That remains to be seen. But reading the white-paper and understanding the system I see a glimmer of hope that it can be done. It has been said so many times in here it's another shitcoin. Well 99% of all the coins that are being created or where created are still based on the same model mine and dump. Some of the other 1% have come close to being stable like blackcoin until they started up blackcoinpool and it started all over again. mine (well this time it was really buy) and dump.

Now there is an opportunity to try another model. Let's just see what happens with this model and see if can work with all the infrastructer and services that are build around it to help it succeed.

[kupan787]

true any merchant that accepts BTC as payment probably does not hold it but exchange it for fiat.

http://www.coindesk.com/overstock-ceo-patrick-byrne-1-6m-bitcoin-sales/

Actually Overstock's CEO came out and said they would hold 10% of all BTC purchases as BTC. So they aren't dumping everything.

He also stated he was looking to push BTC use down into the supply chain and was willing to cut deals for those that choose to accept BTC.

[DirtFighter]

@lothendriel

It just makes me sad kind of to see people within the community as a whole fighting each other. I don't know about you but the main reason I got into crypto was to support the cause. Of course there's money to be made but if all we focus on is the money then we're no better than the corrupt banking & financial institutions that the crypto movement was was invented to counter in the first place.

Since I can't reply to you on HT I'll do it here. You honestly believe that GAW gives a rats ass about crypto-currency as a whole and not just to make as much money as fast as they can so Josh can sell the company for billions as he has already stated? He is badmouthing bitcoin calling it not viable and that paycoin will fix everything and blow bitcoin away. He has the majority of HT users believing that. This is what you think is good for crypto-currencies as a whole?

I honestly think GAW gives a shit about crypto. Yes they are in business to make money...who isn't? Josh has not bad mouthed BTC and has stated Paycoin should compliment it and help make it more main stream. The goal is to make it easy for any one to use. Do you not think that will bring new people to crypto? BTC is easy for you and me to use because we have been in the game...How many times have you tried to explain BTC to a newbie and got a glossed over stare? PC will introduce crypto to new people and those new people will find interest in other alts including BTC.

Actually Josh has specifically stated that BTC has "failed" and is "not viable".

That sounds like badmouthing if I've ever heard it.

Looks like word twisting to me...he said "where BTC has failed" and you know there is a specific meaning to that statement and I never seen him say its not viable. Keep painting with that broad brush

[bitcoinnoisseur]

MagNaMan

... drowned out by the cult of blind-faith believers in anything and everything ...

Now, this never happens in here, does it? The irony is insane!

There is no other crypto-related forum where "blind-faith believers" hangout more than this one ... (maybe some reddit ones, but this is still huge on that)
It's usually bloody, useless, messy and downright outrageous the way *most* threads in here tend up to be ...
It has come to a point where it's utterly impossible to find a decent thread, where people behave rationally and are actually trying to discuss things ...

Thank you for that pearl of a speech! Such wisdom and enlightenment! Now I completely understand Scoot's arguments!
It's not personal, mind you, it's just that I can't read what you wrote and not comment that specific affirmation. But I'm glad that you're able to do it and that I'm able to give you this feedback.

Hell, there's hardly any chance of ever getting some thread in here that's actually useful for all that participate and/or read it. This one was botched like most.

Scott, sorry, your intentions were certainly good, you have a concern that you want to share - whether or not I agree, sympathize, love, hate, despise, whatever, with your point of viewand claims ... I was happy to see you willing to discuss and clarify.
Guess this forum just wasn't adequate. Perhaps you may find another venue that's better suited. Elsewhere.

Thanks anyway.

If you are going to quote me, quote the entire sentence and not just what suits you.

There would be a whole lot more but anyone that speaks up is either instantly banned without their knowledge or is at least drowned out by the cult of blind-faith believers in anything and everything GAW.

Rarely is anyone here banned and never without their knowledge. No one here has blind-faith in any one individual nor company. Both sides are allowed to freely speak their minds. Therefore there is NO irony.

[lothendriel]

I think anyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is doing a good thing. Bitcoin has made it's leaps and bounds. Bitcoin payments on websites, ATMs, etc. Why slam another crypto for trying to do the same thing? Josh has said they will absolutely not sell out. It's all over the forums where he's stated this. Slamming Paycoin and Gaw for wanting to help bring the crypto world to the average person is a slap in the face to the whole community. We need to support each other not kick each other in the teeth. And PayCoin won't outdo Bitcoin. There will still be plenty of room for Bitcoin to thrive.

I don't see what the big fuss is. Can't we all just get along and work together?

Everyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is NOT a good idea when there are people doing it maliciously to gain quick wealth at the cost of anyone they can get money from. Actually NO we can't all just get along and work together. This is the real world and not fantasy. Fantasy is what seems to drive this entire paycoin endeavor from almost all devs that didn't possess the power to either understand it or to make it a reality. Fantasy is believing that devs were found and paid YET did such a shitty job that Josh had to go begging his customers to figure it out and fix it. Fantasy is believing that huge VC's and bankers backed paycoin based on his business model and not the technology YET Josh is now running a contest with his customers to come up with the very business model that he supposedly already sold. We do agree however that paycoin will NOT outdo bitcoin.

You've got a lot of angst built up in them little fingers sir or madam, or whatever ye may be. I'm done here. I wish you all Bitcoiners, Litecoiners, etc all the affluence in the world and all the best. Have a great life!

[suchmoon]

Josh has not bad mouthed BTC

Why are you even covering for his gaffes? I understand you like PayCoin's promises, fair enough. Admitting that the leader is prone to running his mouth would actually give you guys more credibility, I'm surprised that you don't see it. Blindly defending even the most outrageous statements is one of the reasons for this deepening rift between PayCoin proponents and opponents. Not that there aren't any other issues mind you.

[DirtFighter]

true any merchant that accepts BTC as payment probably does not hold it but exchange it for fiat.

http://www.coindesk.com/overstock-ceo-patrick-byrne-1-6m-bitcoin-sales/

Actually Overstock's CEO came out and said they would hold 10% of all BTC purchases as BTC. So they aren't dumping everything.

He also stated he was looking to push BTC use down into the supply chain and was willing to cut deals for those that choose to accept BTC.

That is a smart move and will help with the adoption. It only make sense, if the retailer can use crypto to pay vendors for goods and services that helps complete the cycle minus fiat dump.

[vabchgent]

@bitcoinnoisseur

It is not that bitcoin is not viable. But the model bitcoin mining and dumping that is not viable. Also the merchants shops etc that accept bitcoin and dump it to fiat is not viable. Look at the price of bitcoin in the last few months.

The model has to change and that is what GAW is trying to accomplish.

true any merchant that accepts BTC as payment probably does not hold it but exchange it for fiat.  


well lets hope GAW does to it help btc and cryptocurrency and not just about making their pockets bigger spoke to josh couple of times when he was just selling hardware good guy. But again good guys arnt always the honest guys.

That's the thing though he was a good guy and honest at one time. So maybe the money got to him or he truly plans on trying to make this work. I guess we should wait and see on the 8th of December. If he is as honest as he was or he went full Ponzi and the money went to his head. When he was selling hardware he and GAW would bend over sideways for its customers. Not defending him just speaking from experience. Some people here make him to be a straight up crook. I mean - I don't agree at all what he did to a lot of people. A couple of people here started on his first forum - Then HT and got banned then came here. I personally would not invest in Zen cloud again right now. I am waiting to see if he make good on the HP to Paycoin conversion and if it is valued at what he set it out there to be.