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3r197
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January 21, 2016, 11:47:04 AM |
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Hey.
I've been thinking about DDE. Often people sell things because they need the money. Suppose I came up short on cash to pay the rent. I have a pretty nice guitar that I decide to sell on the Bitbay Market. I want $1500 for my guitar. Someone likes my guitar and agrees to buy it for $1500. With DDE I have to deposit $1500 in escrow to make the transaction, correct? My problem is if I had $1500 to deposit, I'd probably use it to pay the rent and keep my guitar.
Is this a bad use case or am I missing something here?
Do you have the client installed? If so, try to use the sell coins template. On the first page it says "use recommended deposits and settings" You can change that to custom settings. If you do you get the option to define your DDE yourself both for you and the buyer. So if you want it to be zero, it's (almost) zero. There is a minimum of 5500 Bay for deposit. So you can sell with (almost) no DDE. And if your buyer knows and trusts you, that might be fine. The real question is if a stranger would buy your guitar if it's listed amongst other guitars that offer DDE. I think not. That makes sense. So as a seller if I have a good rep i can sell products with low DDE or zero? Glad you cleared that I believe Munti meant '(almost) zero' because you still need some miner fees for bitmessage to process the item for sale and the transaction with the potential buyer. I think it's the same concept as bitcoin's anti-dust policy - and it helps fight against spam |
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"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Satoshi
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sidhujag
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
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January 21, 2016, 04:17:27 PM |
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Hey.
I've been thinking about DDE. Often people sell things because they need the money. Suppose I came up short on cash to pay the rent. I have a pretty nice guitar that I decide to sell on the Bitbay Market. I want $1500 for my guitar. Someone likes my guitar and agrees to buy it for $1500. With DDE I have to deposit $1500 in escrow to make the transaction, correct? My problem is if I had $1500 to deposit, I'd probably use it to pay the rent and keep my guitar.
Is this a bad use case or am I missing something here?
Do you have the client installed? If so, try to use the sell coins template. On the first page it says "use recommended deposits and settings" You can change that to custom settings. If you do you get the option to define your DDE yourself both for you and the buyer. So if you want it to be zero, it's (almost) zero. There is a minimum of 5500 Bay for deposit. So you can sell with (almost) no DDE. And if your buyer knows and trusts you, that might be fine. The real question is if a stranger would buy your guitar if it's listed amongst other guitars that offer DDE. I think not. That makes sense. So as a seller if I have a good rep i can sell products with low DDE or zero? Glad you cleared that I believe you can always sell with no dde but its up to the buyer to trust you in those cases, if its amongst other sellers who offer dde (customer value added feature) then those buyers will buy from dde most likely or if they dont have the money for dde either wait to have enough money or reduce their expectations of security and trust the seller wont take off. |
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ra_pl
Member
Offline
Activity: 251
Merit: 10
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January 21, 2016, 08:32:21 PM |
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BitBay t-shirt   |
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dzimbeck
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
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January 21, 2016, 08:44:07 PM |
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Hey.
I've been thinking about DDE. Often people sell things because they need the money. Suppose I came up short on cash to pay the rent. I have a pretty nice guitar that I decide to sell on the Bitbay Market. I want $1500 for my guitar. Someone likes my guitar and agrees to buy it for $1500. With DDE I have to deposit $1500 in escrow to make the transaction, correct? My problem is if I had $1500 to deposit, I'd probably use it to pay the rent and keep my guitar.
Is this a bad use case or am I missing something here?
Do you have the client installed? If so, try to use the sell coins template. On the first page it says "use recommended deposits and settings" You can change that to custom settings. If you do you get the option to define your DDE yourself both for you and the buyer. So if you want it to be zero, it's (almost) zero. There is a minimum of 5500 Bay for deposit. So you can sell with (almost) no DDE. And if your buyer knows and trusts you, that might be fine. The real question is if a stranger would buy your guitar if it's listed amongst other guitars that offer DDE. I think not. That makes sense. So as a seller if I have a good rep i can sell products with low DDE or zero? Glad you cleared that I believe Munti meant '(almost) zero' because you still need some miner fees for bitmessage to process the item for sale and the transaction with the potential buyer. I think it's the same concept as bitcoin's anti-dust policy - and it helps fight against spam If you are a seller, since the buyers money is advanced to escrow if you put zero the risk is still somewhat smaller for the buyer. 3r was saying that its close to zero but actually the guarantor contracts allow for zero deposits. Which is useful the new users of the markets. The buyer in a guarantor contract can then put a smaller deposit with the seller having zero or smaller deposits. In the end even with a small deposit, you don't want to lose money. For example, seller is selling guitar worth $100 he doesnt have much to deposit so he deposits $10 buyer deposits $20 In the above case would seller forfeit $10?! Probably not, people don't throw money away for no reason. Although sure, there is a small risk he stops caring. When the buyer receives the guitar and needs to sign for it does he want to forfeit the $20 deposit? No why would he? Besides, he received the item, is he really willing to destroy 120 dollars not to pay for the item received? So the idea of forfeit in a small deposit use case would still be illogical. Combine this with a reputation system like we have and i think the odds of default are still LOWER than the odds of getting scammed on E-Bay. (Because in e-bay there is a way to PROFIT from a scam whereas in the above scenarios its only a LOSS). Besides, the hope is that honor and the "hand shake deal" will finally be restored to society. Back in the days before stupid laws and frivolous lawsuits, people used to use their word literally as their bond. Honoring your word meant everything. In this case we have the added bonus of a penalty built into any contract. Reinforcing trust. And if crypto was to take off and be popular its hard for me to imagine business being done any other way. Because if you use traditional escrow, on international contracts where laws vary from country to country there is literally nothing stopping people from default or theft. (Mt Gox) Even laws in the most developed countries are not very effective and maybe its because there is no deterrent inherently built in to our contracts. In any case, shouldnt there always be a small penalty or incentive built into every contract?! |
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dzimbeck
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
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January 21, 2016, 08:44:44 PM |
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BitBay t-shirt Is there a link where we could order one?  |
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Munti
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January 22, 2016, 01:14:48 AM |
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I don't want a link. I want to see it offered in our marked  |
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dzimbeck
Legendary
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Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
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January 22, 2016, 01:20:55 AM |
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I don't want a link. I want to see it offered in our marked Yeah good point, if he lists it im sure someone will get one just to to test it out. |
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healthhealer4
Member
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Activity: 100
Merit: 10
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January 22, 2016, 07:48:32 AM |
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I don't want a link. I want to see it offered in our marked yes i would get one, ill keep looking at the market to see if it appear their |
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3r197
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January 22, 2016, 12:32:58 PM |
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Yea, I'd love to get one of those shirts!
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3r197
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January 23, 2016, 01:26:43 PM |
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And the list of reasons to remove the middleman continues to grow!
Got this in an email
NOTICE OF CLASS-ACTION SETTLEMENT.
THIS NOTICE MAY AFFECT YOUR RIGHTS. PLEASE READ IT CAREFULLY.
A settlement has been reached in a class action in which the plaintiffs allege, among other things, that PayPal improperly handled disputed transactions on PayPal accounts and improperly placed holds and reserves on accounts or closed or suspended accounts. Plaintiffs also allege that PayPal failed to provide annual error-resolution notices and monthly account statements under the Electronic Fund Transfer Act.
You are a member of the Settlement Class if you had an active PayPal account between April 19, 2006 and Nov. 5, 2015. Certain Settlement Class Members who had a hold or reserve placed on their account and/or who had their account closed or suspended by PayPal are eligible to receive a monetary payment upon submission of a valid claim form.
This notice summarizes the proposed settlement. For the precise terms and conditions of the settlement, please see the Settlement Agreement available at http :xxxxxxxx, by accessing the Court docket in this case through the Court's Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER) system at https ://xxxxxxxx, or by visiting the office of the Clerk of the Court for the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, 1301 Clay Street, Oakland, CA 94612, between 9:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding Court holidays.
PLEASE DO NOT TELEPHONE THE COURT OR THE COURT CLERK'S OFFICE TO INQUIRE ABOUT THIS SETTLEMENT OR THE CLAIM PROCESS.
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btc_zero_sum
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January 23, 2016, 01:55:06 PM |
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hi bitbay community! i'm new here! i have a couple of points for you. 1. well, i think this is one of the most interesting projects under the radar, i do own a small quantity of bay but current price is attractive for more investments. so the first point is just a "congratulation"!  2. you should update the nodes in the wallet. i did download the staking wallet but was not getting in sync with the blockchain. i found then i post in the bitbay forum that explains how to update the nodes but i guess those steps are not really noob-friendly. maybe the guide can be rewritten in a step by step way and make it easier to find, maybe translated or maybe the nodes can be added in the next build, without the need of looking for it/updating the config |
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the_wolf
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
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January 23, 2016, 09:17:53 PM |
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David, it would be great if you created some sort of short explainer video that goes over your inflation/deflation/pegging/hedging system in detail.
I feel this sort of media would be great marketing material to promote BAY while further establishing yourself as a pioneer in crypto.
We could also use this video to help new investors better understand the technology behind BAY.
I know you and the team are crazy busy, but I hope you consider doing this in the future when time allows.
Thanks for all your hard work!
the_wolf
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edmundduke
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1007
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January 23, 2016, 10:03:14 PM |
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David, it would be great if you created some sort of short explainer video that goes over your inflation/deflation/pegging/hedging system in detail.
I feel this sort of media would be great marketing material to promote BAY while further establishing yourself as a pioneer in crypto.
We could also use this video to help new investors better understand the technology behind BAY.
I know you and the team are crazy busy, but I hope you consider doing this in the future when time allows.
Thanks for all your hard work!
the_wolf
It is not a bad idea, i would also recommend keeping the video as simple as possible. This way even people who dont really understand how cryptos, markets work and they could still get in and understand how this can benefit them. As the_wolf mentioned it is not something that is needed immediately but it would benefit BAY a lot in the future for sure. P.S Its really hard to get stakes  maybe i just have too few BAY to really get any rewards lol. |
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btc_zero_sum
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January 24, 2016, 02:16:26 PM |
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David, it would be great if you created some sort of short explainer video that goes over your inflation/deflation/pegging/hedging system in detail.
this is great, i would really need one to better understand some concepts i would donate BTC for this video! |
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dzimbeck
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
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January 25, 2016, 05:02:41 AM |
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David, it would be great if you created some sort of short explainer video that goes over your inflation/deflation/pegging/hedging system in detail.
I feel this sort of media would be great marketing material to promote BAY while further establishing yourself as a pioneer in crypto.
We could also use this video to help new investors better understand the technology behind BAY.
I know you and the team are crazy busy, but I hope you consider doing this in the future when time allows.
Thanks for all your hard work!
the_wolf
It is not a bad idea, i would also recommend keeping the video as simple as possible. This way even people who dont really understand how cryptos, markets work and they could still get in and understand how this can benefit them. As the_wolf mentioned it is not something that is needed immediately but it would benefit BAY a lot in the future for sure. P.S Its really hard to get stakes maybe i just have too few BAY to really get any rewards lol. Well, thats a good idea. However, the full details can get really technical for someone who is still new to crypto or new to finance. Imagine it this way: The entire supply is freezing and unfreezing 1-2% a day (this can't be linear though, it has to be linear but slightly parabolic to present large amounts of funds being locked at once). Chunks of the total supply can be sent from person to person relative to how they were broken down in the first place. And so, there are pieces of the total which are premium and subpremium liquidity (a diagram would really help to explain this one). Some liquidity would deflate/freeze faster than others. Some frozen assets would be more valuable than others. Very similar to a trustless futures market. The entire system is fractional. If you have 100,000 coins frozen to be released over 50 points, and want to send 3/50ths of it, then you get the next group divisible in 47ths. Everything is under the hood, so you will probably not realize this is all happening in the client (other than knowing what is frozen and what is liquid) I'm not sure publishing a white paper early is a good idea since it only fuels competition. However for those that really want a technical breakdown, you will get one pretty soon.  |
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edmundduke
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1007
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January 25, 2016, 10:07:16 AM |
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David, it would be great if you created some sort of short explainer video that goes over your inflation/deflation/pegging/hedging system in detail.
I feel this sort of media would be great marketing material to promote BAY while further establishing yourself as a pioneer in crypto.
We could also use this video to help new investors better understand the technology behind BAY.
I know you and the team are crazy busy, but I hope you consider doing this in the future when time allows.
Thanks for all your hard work!
the_wolf
It is not a bad idea, i would also recommend keeping the video as simple as possible. This way even people who dont really understand how cryptos, markets work and they could still get in and understand how this can benefit them. As the_wolf mentioned it is not something that is needed immediately but it would benefit BAY a lot in the future for sure. P.S Its really hard to get stakes maybe i just have too few BAY to really get any rewards lol. Well, thats a good idea. However, the full details can get really technical for someone who is still new to crypto or new to finance. Imagine it this way: The entire supply is freezing and unfreezing 1-2% a day (this can't be linear though, it has to be linear but slightly parabolic to present large amounts of funds being locked at once). Chunks of the total supply can be sent from person to person relative to how they were broken down in the first place. And so, there are pieces of the total which are premium and subpremium liquidity (a diagram would really help to explain this one). Some liquidity would deflate/freeze faster than others. Some frozen assets would be more valuable than others. Very similar to a trustless futures market. The entire system is fractional. If you have 100,000 coins frozen to be released over 50 points, and want to send 3/50ths of it, then you get the next group divisible in 47ths. Everything is under the hood, so you will probably not realize this is all happening in the client (other than knowing what is frozen and what is liquid) I'm not sure publishing a white paper early is a good idea since it only fuels competition. However for those that really want a technical breakdown, you will get one pretty soon. Well you are right on that part because i am pretty sure that other devs will take note of what has been done on the system and how it is implemented. I am exited that we get to see the technical details soon, so we have something to look forward to. I have been buying on the dips, but it seems that there are quite a few people buying it right now. Pretty hard to even see any dips in the price. At this pace we will be back at 70+ some time soon. |
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KoshaKosha
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January 25, 2016, 10:22:27 AM |
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Hello!
Excuse me if this was mentioned before, but what if make DDE optional?
The point is if I myself want to buy small cheap thing I don't care much about loosing my 2 dollars and I'll be satisfied seeing seller's good reputation. And some people in some countries buy a lot of such cheap things at once from different chinese sellers, so using dde will take unneeded efforts (just annoying duty) and money.
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warper
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
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January 25, 2016, 11:15:22 AM |
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Hello!
Excuse me if this was mentioned before, but what if make DDE optional?
The point is if I myself want to buy small cheap thing I don't care much about loosing my 2 dollars and I'll be satisfied seeing seller's good reputation. And some people in some countries buy a lot of such cheap things at once from different chinese sellers, so using dde will take unneeded efforts (just annoying duty) and money.
Please, read the last two pages. That's exactly the topic. Thank you, and welcome |
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dzimbeck
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
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January 25, 2016, 11:35:14 AM |
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Hello!
Excuse me if this was mentioned before, but what if make DDE optional?
The point is if I myself want to buy small cheap thing I don't care much about loosing my 2 dollars and I'll be satisfied seeing seller's good reputation. And some people in some countries buy a lot of such cheap things at once from different chinese sellers, so using dde will take unneeded efforts (just annoying duty) and money.
dde doesnt require effort though, when you use the templates all of the game theory is handled by the client based on the type of business you are doing. Most people have enough to cover deposits for their volume |
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