[ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official

[tempus]

Another huge issue is the growth-account if I understand it right.

Somebody explained it:

NeuBuy:
@Kamatezo When staking amounts like 10000 NEU you'll have much less than one percent chance of minting coins each day. So you could go months without minting coins, and you're not going to get such a compounding advantage as your calculations. You'll also have a lot of uncertainty, if you're unlucky it could be years before you mint coins. The good thing about the growth accounts is you're guaranteed to get coins.

That said I don't like the way the growth accounts work. It would be much better without different time periods. So you could transfer in and out coins when you want, and get paid rewards on a regular bases. Maybe someone else will implement a more user friendly growth account this way.

Sandrine confirms:

Sandrine:  
@Kamatezo : Growth Accounts are meant for mainstream users who do not wish to dive into the complexities of mining. What @NeuBuy posted is a good explanation of what the Growth Account is.

And she says:

Sandrine:
@NeuBuy I have a quick question about your remark: if you wanted just one time period, how long would it be? I'm not sure I understand why you don't like having different time periods, I'd like to know more so we can improve our service. Different time periods were meant to offer a solution for different types of users: some of them will be uncomfortable with depositing their NeuCoins for 5 years, other ones are totally ok with it.
Can you breakdown what you would be more confortable with?

Source: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/4



The problem with that is: They say that there will be 100%-interest per year. They also say that they don't want much price volatility. So, it won't rise that much because they'll meet every demand which means: They'll sell into a price-rise and they have enough, they stake more then they are able to sell every day.

That means: Most likely there won't be profit because of the price. If somebody buys NEU now, he has to make profit about the interest-rate. In 1 year he could have 100% if the price will be stable and if there is enough buy-support to sell into it. And: If he gets his Coins.


But: Let's say there is an issue in 12 month. An Investor would like to sell and he should have 100% interest but he was "unlucky"... so he doesn't have the double-amount. What to do? Hoping that he will have luck in the next week, month, year and at the same time the price goes down? It's irrational to bind BTC in a project when it's impossible to do something right... if there is a problem it could be the best thing to sell but then there would be any interest rate, even if an Investor holds his Coins for month or even years. It's like roulette but needs endless trust.

And this:  "some of them will be uncomfortable with depositing their NeuCoins for 5 years, other ones are totally ok with it." is kind of cynical, because nobody will know what will be in 5 month. Whoever is okay to bind his investment the next 5 years must be naive.


With other words: Even without all other issues, concerns and unanswered questions about inflation and lack of transparency and so on, there is not much reason to invest in this. The interest-rate is the only way to make profit but at the same time nobody can be sure that he will get it in years, because: "if you're unlucky it could be years before you mint coins"


At the same time the group behind stakes millions of new Coins everyday and they will sell if they can without crashing the price. Every aspect of this project shows the greed of a few and others should support it, invest it, make PR for it, stake it... it's naive to believe that many Investors will do that - it seems there is not much probability to win.

[erp77]

Lol you dont get growth accounts, do you?

[tempus]

Lol you dont get growth accounts, do you?

If I'm wrong... please tell me, explain it.

[erp77]

A consumer-friendly cloud mining service

[tempus]

A consumer-friendly cloud mining service

That doesn't answer the question if I'm wrong... 

Questions:

1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?


Because if that's correct... I don't agree with your definition of "consumer-friendly". ;-)

[erp77]

Not correct.

The good thing about the growth accounts is you're guaranteed to get coins.

[tempus]

That's also an interesting post:  

Darteous:

@Sandrine Neubuy wants the return on investment but no locked time period. @NeuBuy Only people with a lot of coins and technical understanding to use the wallet get that.

Look at how banks work with their savings, you don't receive a noticeable amount in a normal savings account, but if you promise to let the bank hold the cash for a time in a CD you get a few percent.
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/7

So, what does he say here?

1. "only people with a lot of coins (...)"

Who are these people? Answer: The Top10: 96.9 % of total supply. Top100: 99.8 % of total supply.
http://www.neucoin.io/richlist


2. "and technical understanding to use the wallet"

What's with the easy-to-use-philosophy?


But the most interesting is.......

3. "Look at how banks work with their savings, you don't receive a noticeable amount in a normal savings account, but if you promise to let the bank hold the cash for a time in a CD you get a few percent."


Let me quote myself:

I never would buy a project which has an economy like a central bank  (...)

 The three foundations will be the central bank and inflate the market (...)

 It's so centralized like a central bank and worse, because of the inflation.  

Interesting design. They would like to bind the money of their investors and at the same time they'll inflate the market. By the way... today they'll reach the 100 Mio they've sold in the ICO. Just because of staking.

Currently: 3,099,981,436

So... in about 1 to 2 hours the goal will be reached. All ICO-Coins back out of nothing.

Edit: Wrong calculation, because it's already reached...

3,100,034,991

100 Mio at the price of 0.000034 = 3400 BTC = $839,800

[tempus]

Not correct.

The good thing about the growth accounts is you're guaranteed to get coins.

Yes, it guarantees you to get coins. But it could be that you have to wait months or even years, correct?

[erp77]

You have to wait exactly one year for 100% interest.

[tempus]

You have to wait exactly one year for 100% interest.

So, it's wrong what "NeuBuy" said?

"You'll also have a lot of uncertainty, if you're unlucky it could be years before you mint coins."


And if it's wrong, why did Sandrine say: "What @NeuBuy posted is a good explanation of what the Growth Account is."?


Edit Source: http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/6

[erp77]

No its not wrong what NeuBuy said.

[tempus]

No its not wrong what NeuBuy said.

That implicates that's also not wrong what I said, right? Or please show me what is wrong.

[erp77]

Lol so you dont get growth accounts. Do you get cloud mining?

[rizzlarolla]

A consumer-friendly cloud mining service

That doesn't answer the question if I'm wrong...  

Questions:

1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?


Because if that's correct... I don't agree with your definition of "consumer-friendly". ;-)

Q1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

If using the qt wallet then yes, if using the "growth account" then no.

qt wallet example, (not for the masses, just the tech few)

"Here are some more specific examples. For simplicity, let’s assume that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking all the time, so the total number of NeuCoins staking at launch is 3B and grows from the POS rewards that are earned.
A miner starting with a stake of 1 million coins would be expected to mine this often:
1,000,000/3,000,000,000 = .0003333;
.0003333 x 1,440 = .48
so a miner’s chance of minting a block in a single day is 48%.
in other words, this miner would be expected to mint a block once every roughly 2 days
Using the same math process, a miner with a starting stake of 70,000 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 30 days, and a miner with a stake of 11,700 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 180 days."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/multiply-your-neucoins-through-growth-accounts-and-mining/1677

So, growth account options, (for the masses)

3 months, 20 % - That is 80 % per year
1 year, 100 % - That is 100 % per year
5 years, 1600 % - That is 320 % per year
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/growth-account-growth-rate/1436

Guarenteed return, but all "interest" is lost if withdrawn early. Only 3 time periods on offer.

Q2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?

Yes for the qt wallet. No for the "growth account"

So Newbie is talking qt wallet at first, then the "growth account"

[tempus]

A consumer-friendly cloud mining service

That doesn't answer the question if I'm wrong...  

Questions:

1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?


Because if that's correct... I don't agree with your definition of "consumer-friendly". ;-)

Q1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

If using the qt wallet then yes, if using the "growth account" then no.

qt wallet example, (not for the masses, just the tech few)

"Here are some more specific examples. For simplicity, let’s assume that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking all the time, so the total number of NeuCoins staking at launch is 3B and grows from the POS rewards that are earned.
A miner starting with a stake of 1 million coins would be expected to mine this often:
1,000,000/3,000,000,000 = .0003333;
.0003333 x 1,440 = .48
so a miner’s chance of minting a block in a single day is 48%.
in other words, this miner would be expected to mint a block once every roughly 2 days
Using the same math process, a miner with a starting stake of 70,000 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 30 days, and a miner with a stake of 11,700 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 180 days."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/multiply-your-neucoins-through-growth-accounts-and-mining/1677

So, growth account options, (for the masses)

3 months, 20 % - That is 80 % per year
1 year, 100 % - That is 100 % per year
5 years, 1600 % - That is 320 % per year
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/growth-account-growth-rate/1436

Guarenteed return, but all "interest" is lost if withdrawn early. Only 3 time periods on offer.

Q2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?

Yes for the qt wallet. No for the "growth account"

So Newbie is talking qt wallet at first, then the "growth account"

Okay, I understand. But it doesn't make it better... but worse in my eyes. Just three pay-out times to chose and the time between the chance for interest is zero. If I would chose 12 month but need money in 11 month and 20 days... I won't get my interest. And I would need to give my money a centralized system that plays bank.

Why not weekly-payouts? Is there a good reason for that?

And, I'm not an expert in technique. But I'm invested in BTCD... I start staking and it stakes new Coins everytime. Why is that different in Neucoin? Why this little chances?

[tempus]

Lol so you dont get growth accounts. Do you get cloud mining?

Same question to you: Why not weekly payouts?

[rizzlarolla]

A consumer-friendly cloud mining service

That doesn't answer the question if I'm wrong...  

Questions:

1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?


Because if that's correct... I don't agree with your definition of "consumer-friendly". ;-)

Q1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

If using the qt wallet then yes, if using the "growth account" then no.

qt wallet example, (not for the masses, just the tech few)

"Here are some more specific examples. For simplicity, let’s assume that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking all the time, so the total number of NeuCoins staking at launch is 3B and grows from the POS rewards that are earned.
A miner starting with a stake of 1 million coins would be expected to mine this often:
1,000,000/3,000,000,000 = .0003333;
.0003333 x 1,440 = .48
so a miner’s chance of minting a block in a single day is 48%.
in other words, this miner would be expected to mint a block once every roughly 2 days
Using the same math process, a miner with a starting stake of 70,000 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 30 days, and a miner with a stake of 11,700 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 180 days."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/multiply-your-neucoins-through-growth-accounts-and-mining/1677

So, growth account options, (for the masses)

3 months, 20 % - That is 80 % per year
1 year, 100 % - That is 100 % per year
5 years, 1600 % - That is 320 % per year
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/growth-account-growth-rate/1436

Guarenteed return, but all "interest" is lost if withdrawn early. Only 3 time periods on offer.

Q2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?

Yes for the qt wallet. No for the "growth account"

So Newbie is talking qt wallet at first, then the "growth account"

Okay, I understand. But it doesn't make it better... but worse in my eyes. Just three pay-out times to chose and the time between the chance for interest is zero. If I would chose 12 month but need money in 11 month and 20 days... I won't get my interest. And I would need to give my money a centralized system that plays bank.

Why not weekly-payouts? Is there a good reason for that?

And, I'm not an expert in technique. But I'm invested in BTCD... I start staking and it stakes new Coins everytime. Why is that different in Neucoin? Why this little chances?

It looks bad to me.

3 month minimum.
early investors are "locked" in. "Team members" are not.
They get 2% a month release. 20 million coins this month between them. (edited, not sure how many it works out too, they wont tell us!)
And "team members" restricted coin still doubles in a year, (after this 2% monthly release) because of the massive compound effect on their massive pile of nokoin. (800m+)

But using a qt wallet is not much better.
"Team" rewards will always be far greater % than anyone else because the are holding so many nokoin for themselves. (800million +)
With their efficiency, and compounding effect, get exponentially richer.

Also nokoin appears to have been created Sat 12 Sept. 8 million nokoin created even before launch.

[rizzlarolla]

Empty promises pre launch.
"long reads but pretty important nevertheless!"
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/how-the-neucoin-community-can-monitor-the-foundations-and-teams-neucoin-token-holdings-over-time/1526

" all cryptocurrencies that follow this (premine) strategy (Ripple, Stellar, NeuCoin) face the challenge of winning the trust of their communities: specifically, how can users trust that the founders and insiders will in fact use the premine over time in a way that benefits all of the crypto’s holders, as opposed to primarily the founders or insiders themselves."
...
"all NeuCoin tokens owned by the foundations, as well as all restricted NeuCoins (whether owned by founders, angel investors or service providers) will be held and mined in published addresses clearly visible and verifiable on the NeuCoin blockchain."
...
"Each of the three foundations will have two publicly visible addresses: one for long-term holdings and the other for near-term transactions. The entire founding team will share one address controlled by the NeuCoin"
...
"All of the balances held by these entities along with the monthly transfers will be visible on the blockchain and easily verifiable by any outside party."


Which is why I presumed there would be an official block explorer.
To look at (un)published addresses.

With "team" owning more than 25% of all nokoin at launch, (800m+) they have "created" 25m+ nokoin for themselves in 2 weeks.
$250,000 worth pre launch.
So, $500,000 by month end?
Thats just the "team" personal gain, not foundations gain.
I would like to see these addresses.

And with the compounding it is more and more every month.
nokoin Project, What are the addresses.

Why keep making empty promises to your investors.
Especially when you know most are novices and have to trust in you.

[scam confirmed]

Individual "growth accounts" are accumulated in collective "growth account" addresses. Collective "growth account" addresses have many inputs of varying size, no outputs (yet) and no decimals.

The following addresses are (probably) collective "growth account" addresses:

http://neucoin.io/address/Naq83C9qnFn8CarFnLov1khNYsgJzzEani
http://neucoin.io/address/NdYmnjS3oaFG6u2W8E41SWqSEjXsCcCmA3
http://neucoin.io/address/NbWn2oz8978ZzBTGSFqCgdsc5NdiSRwkXK
http://neucoin.io/address/NQ56Hbw6URkWyMYYw1gJy6puTdJSC5QYmX
http://neucoin.io/address/NXutQwgcRfzm3iSuhoL7snYy4ZpFKJNFmR
http://neucoin.io/address/NXt6Rvs3PiqswZnYe7ya66Cqf1427QgN9y
http://neucoin.io/address/NL5Tbit4riCU98X97dy2PinLmx6oXY5gZc
http://neucoin.io/address/NXXaKT6hA73oXtgviqtLPVs8unhJ3rGUF6
http://neucoin.io/address/NXt6Rvs3PiqswZnYe7ya66Cqf1427QgN9y
http://neucoin.io/address/NLDLVtKTsNLdqzjXeonsKyQm7myHutguoy
http://neucoin.io/address/NSEGhAvXyWFA5eHeEtnB8mqcw1MEpdHqLK
http://neucoin.io/address/NWPiqZF1tSapCvgcBCCCv2uK5bAmmYxMrm
http://neucoin.io/address/NLSDKQDvTrd22ZMEGSs25DeHs7KC4bZ9EB
http://neucoin.io/address/NagCkdRaYYF2ytrJXZgDvuPWjLbk8KUyc6
http://neucoin.io/address/NTH47TJRkMvGWsj2nCPUAtLxW8sCK3v3Qb

Balance of all these addresses together is ~ 78,000,000 NoKoin (78 % of the presale) which equals 2.6 % of all coins.

2.6 % of all coins means (assuming that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking) a chance of 2,6 % to find the next block, on average every 38.5 blocks, i.e. every 38.5 minutes, 37.4 times a day, 262 times a week.

Almost two weeks after launch and we haven't seen even one of those addresses finding even one block...

Conclusion: Growth account technical implementation not functional.

[rizzlarolla]

^ Interesting, I will look.


I found this for General perusal.

Block 1 Sept 12 8.02am.
http://www.neucoin.io/block/00000cde7894e403bc530b3d3f8d69679d50022dd7a5a6539194ff9c555a2d9f

Launch Sept 23 6.56pm
orum.neucoin.org/t/neucoin-is-live-available-on-exchanges-by-friday/1584

Block 1380 Sept 23 6.64pm (launch) 3,008,660,800 nokoin
http://www.neucoin.io/block/f0077509ac33b2a22c34ef63d91d8abd847e5be0cd0146437a5b0e2709662a1a

Block 4160 Sept 25 10.00am (1.6 days later when the first nokoiners will be able to stake) 3, 023, 044,000 nokoin
http://www.neucoin.io/block/e1278377cdef8602a386dcd4574f87cf77f09ba5837ef7738dcbbd9b362c2bba

Various transactions Over 5m (max purchase),
c1fec4a1f52baad04063ad78c235fce933ac8c384bb72d138408e272c80d00e1
from distribution wallet.
5cfb9c89f4f9f472cbab1e8f4d304b85234a23db55458b6082f174049376229d

Megga staking? in blocks around 3800 for example, over 100,000 "created" per block.


Btw, Any evidence of nokoin team doing pow?