[ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official

[rizzlarolla]

^^
I suspect they are cold mining/remote mining/pooling somehow.
nokoin Project will get 150%+ from their staking, then they pay 100% back in a year to investors. nokoin Project profiting by 50%. (yearly account).
nokoin Project just keeps taking.

Ditto on other growth accounts?

[scam confirmed]

[redfish64]

Lol so you dont get growth accounts. Do you get cloud mining?

Same question to you: Why not weekly payouts?

IMO it's because Neucoin likes to lock people into an investment, so they can't say anything negative without knowing they are hurting their own chances for success. Anyone who signed up for the growth account has shutup and smile for the next 3 months, and that's how the Neucoin team likes it.

That's also why they won't update the neucoin-qt client. They want everyone using the growth account for the lock in.

It reminds me of the multi level marketing/pyramid scams that go around from time to time. Once you buy into it, if you say anything about how you're losing money, failing to get other people involved, etc., then you are just hurting your chances to get others signed up underneath you. So everyone involved has this weird fake plastic smile, while they all sell their souls on the inside.

[tempus]

A consumer-friendly cloud mining service

That doesn't answer the question if I'm wrong...  

Questions:

1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?


Because if that's correct... I don't agree with your definition of "consumer-friendly". ;-)

Q1. Is it right that it could be possible that Investors would stake for months or even years without getting their interest... their Coins?

If using the qt wallet then yes, if using the "growth account" then no.

qt wallet example, (not for the masses, just the tech few)

"Here are some more specific examples. For simplicity, let’s assume that 100% of all existing NeuCoins are staking all the time, so the total number of NeuCoins staking at launch is 3B and grows from the POS rewards that are earned.
A miner starting with a stake of 1 million coins would be expected to mine this often:
1,000,000/3,000,000,000 = .0003333;
.0003333 x 1,440 = .48
so a miner’s chance of minting a block in a single day is 48%.
in other words, this miner would be expected to mint a block once every roughly 2 days
Using the same math process, a miner with a starting stake of 70,000 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 30 days, and a miner with a stake of 11,700 NeuCoins would be expected to mint once every 180 days."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/multiply-your-neucoins-through-growth-accounts-and-mining/1677

So, growth account options, (for the masses)

3 months, 20 % - That is 80 % per year
1 year, 100 % - That is 100 % per year
5 years, 1600 % - That is 320 % per year
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/growth-account-growth-rate/1436

Guarenteed return, but all "interest" is lost if withdrawn early. Only 3 time periods on offer.

Q2. Let's assume everything would be fine with Neucoin, but in 12 months, an Investor who staked all the time for one year, needs money and has to sell... he should have 100% more Coins. But it could be that he hasn't right? He would have to wait without knowing when he will receive it. It could be that he has to sell his Coins but without getting the interest-rate. Is that correct?

Yes for the qt wallet. No for the "growth account"

So Newbie is talking qt wallet at first, then the "growth account"

Okay, I understand. But it doesn't make it better... but worse in my eyes. Just three pay-out times to chose and the time between the chance for interest is zero. If I would chose 12 month but need money in 11 month and 20 days... I won't get my interest. And I would need to give my money a centralized system that plays bank.

Why not weekly-payouts? Is there a good reason for that?

And, I'm not an expert in technique. But I'm invested in BTCD... I start staking and it stakes new Coins everytime. Why is that different in Neucoin? Why this little chances?

It looks bad to me.

3 month minimum.
early investors are "locked" in. "Team members" are not.
They get 2% a month release. 20 million coins this month between them. (edited, not sure how many it works out too, they wont tell us!)
And "team members" restricted coin still doubles in a year, (after this 2% monthly release) because of the massive compound effect on their massive pile of nokoin. (800m+)

But using a qt wallet is not much better.
"Team" rewards will always be far greater % than anyone else because the are holding so many nokoin for themselves. (800million +)
With their efficiency, and compounding effect, get exponentially richer.

Also nokoin appears to have been created Sat 12 Sept. 8 million nokoin created even before launch.

Yes, they've started to stake one day before and about 8 Mio everyday and slowly but steady it suffocates the whole project.

The issue with the growth account and the three time periods is also: Everybody who is invested will fear those dates... Let's assume there are 100 or maybe 200 Supporters who are invested. The majority starts with a growth account and the majority most likely has chosen 3 months. In 3 months after launch a lot of Neucoins will be free and if they shouldn't be excited about the progress of NEU some or even many will sell their Coins...

The same after one year. I doubt that it will be much because I doubt that there are much supporters. But even if, they're damaging the price with their own strategy... They produce several days in a year that everybody will fear: Every month the 2% of the group behind are able to sell. After 3 and after 12 months those who have chosen a growth-account and get their money could sell. Investors will anticipate it, so that the price most likely will go down before. It's really paradox... The more of the coins are in public hands, the more the public and the group behind will fear those dates and the market. So they have to hold it in their own hands and.... stake it and stake it.

The whole economic design and the psychological-market-dynamics it implicates is flawed.

[tempus]

Lol so you dont get growth accounts. Do you get cloud mining?

Same question to you: Why not weekly payouts?

IMO it's because Neucoin likes to lock people into an investment, so they can't say anything negative without knowing they are hurting their own chances for success. Anyone who signed up for the growth account has shutup and smile for the next 3 months, and that's how the Neucoin team likes it.

Yes... but they won't like it in 3 months. Then they will have to build up some buy walls to precent dumping or catch it.


 

That's also why they won't update the neucoin-qt client. They want everyone using the growth account for the lock in.

It reminds me of the multi level marketing/pyramid scams that go around from time to time. Once you buy into it, if you say anything about how you're losing money, failing to get other people involved, etc., then you are just hurting your chances to get others signed up underneath you. So everyone involved has this weird fake plastic smile, while they all sell their souls on the inside.

Yes... it's a greedy strategy and it's SO greedy that it's self-destructive.

Btw: Everytime the volume goes up it goes up because of dumpings. And every time I look at distribution it's mainly the first account on bittrex which has bought it. Now it's at 2.9 Mio.

[tempus]

A User in their Forum about the growth-account:

"I think the 5 year and even the 1 year lock for the growth account is a terrible idea. I really do not recommend it to anyone, unless you bought a lot and want to forget it for five years. Imagine the neucoin goes badly at year 4 and you want to sell it, you are almost at the point that you can take your 1600% return and sell it, but you cannot, unless you say goodbye to your 16x factor. Or at year 1 or 2 maybe other neucoin wallets open offering a lockdown free growth account. You see other smarter people moving their pile there, but you cannot again...unless you lose substantially. You will be angry, right? I really do not understand why there is a 5 year option there? To trap people? It is a mean strategy, totally negative. I think these artifical ties will just create suspicion that these guys just want us to naively click on the 5-year and basically we do not have money for 5 years to tip so we will buy again. Do you recommend this? If not, the 5-year option should be removed or big warning should pop up three times to warn of this. The obvious thing is sday's suggestion above or no lock down at all. Or if that is too good for the public, which you dont want I guess, so that others can open alternative better neucon wallets with better features, find something less harmful way to make myneucoin unattractive."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/9

[jonald_fyookball]

A User in their Forum about the growth-account:

"I think the 5 year and even the 1 year lock for the growth account is a terrible idea. I really do not recommend it to anyone, unless you bought a lot and want to forget it for five years. Imagine the neucoin goes badly at year 4 and you want to sell it, you are almost at the point that you can take your 1600% return and sell it, but you cannot, unless you say goodbye to your 16x factor. Or at year 1 or 2 maybe other neucoin wallets open offering a lockdown free growth account. You see other smarter people moving their pile there, but you cannot again...unless you lose substantially. You will be angry, right? I really do not understand why there is a 5 year option there? To trap people? It is a mean strategy, totally negative. I think these artifical ties will just create suspicion that these guys just want us to naively click on the 5-year and basically we do not have money for 5 years to tip so we will buy again. Do you recommend this? If not, the 5-year option should be removed or big warning should pop up three times to warn of this. The obvious thing is sday's suggestion above or no lock down at all. Or if that is too good for the public, which you dont want I guess, so that others can open alternative better neucon wallets with better features, find something less harmful way to make myneucoin unattractive."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/investors-in-neucoin-growth-account/1341/9

more greed.

[LiQio]

Btw: Everytime the volume goes up it goes up because of dumpings. And every time I look at distribution it's mainly the first account on bittrex which has bought it. Now it's at 2.9 Mio.

Indeed, so the regime bought another 200k of their own crap on bittrex during the last 24 hours.
Everybody else seems to be selling, fortunately.

[greg123]

I think you guys are missing the point. Anyone who wants to mine (and knows how to do it) can mine the good old way with a standard qt miner. People can and will start mining pools etc and mine Neucoin just like any other PoS coin. Even PoW actually in the first year.

No one has to sign up for any growth accounts. In fact, if you know how to mine why would you? Just mine they way you normally do.

But you forget how insanely technical mining is for 99.99% of the population. There are VERY FEW people who know what this means, let alone how to do it, or that would ever want to have to learn. That's who the growth accounts are for.

Neucoin is going after consumers, not miners and speculators. Sure, they need miners and speculators too - but their whole idea is to get lots of consumers.
And consumers will never download a client. Never, ever, ever. They don't know anything about computers or blockchains. They don't know about mining. Just as they don't know much about bitcoin. Or will ever download a client or even join a mining pool. They just want to click something on their phone.

But if these consumers earns some free coins by playing a game, and if there's an easy way to just click right there on their phone and those coins start to multiply so that he can play even more games, they may think it's cool.

So, the growth accounts isn't the only way you can mine Neucoin. Again, if you know how to mine, just mine. The growth accounts isn't for us here on bitcointalk, it's just a consumer feature for the facebook mainstream who has never even heard of "cryptocurrency". And for them it's pretty great, drop and drag and your coins are multiplying. They key here is easy and fun. That's all the facebook masses care about.

[scam confirmed]

insanely technical

Settings --> Unlock Wallet for Minting Only

insanely technical

http://forum.neucoin.org/t/more-user-friendly-method-of-staking-minting-coming-soon/1891/4 

Genius inside or vaporware ? 

[UserVVIP]

insanely technical

Settings --> Unlock Wallet for Minting Only

insanely technical

http://forum.neucoin.org/t/more-user-friendly-method-of-staking-minting-coming-soon/1891/4 

Genius inside or vaporware ? 

What is going on here is not to be going on here at this moment in time.

BLEH.

[scam confirmed]

No one has to sign up for any growth accounts. In fact, if you know how to mine why would you?

Because of the insanely high PoS reward in combination with the uneven percentaged effect of compounding interest between poor stakers and rich stakers, high variance + no predictability because of the floating stake modifier, proportionally lower chances to find a block for stakers who don't mint 24/7, necessity to compensate for the decline in purchasing power due to hyperinflation etc.pp.

[heavensopen]

I think you guys are missing the point. ... blah blah blah...
But if these consumers earns some free coins by playing a game, and if there's an easy way to just click right there on their phone and those coins start to multiply so that he can play even more games, they may think it's cool.

And, according to your opinion, it is a great growth plan to assume that IF consumers play some game and earn some coins and IF there is an easy way for them to just click and multiply them, then they MAY think it's cool..... careful, not that they may adopt usage of the coin, maybe they will think it's cool...

So, the growth accounts isn't the only way you can mine Neucoin. Again, if you know how to mine, just mine. The growth accounts isn't for us here on bitcointalk, it's just a consumer feature for the facebook mainstream who has never even heard of "cryptocurrency". And for them it's pretty great, drop and drag and your coins are multiplying. They key here is easy and fun. That's all the facebook masses care about.

Hmmmm.... Facebook masses don't give a flying.... duck about crypto, they only care how many "likes" this selfie they took with their brand new iPhone is getting
And, since you don't belong to the Facebook mainstream, who "has never even heard of cryptocurrency", how the duck do you know what is pretty great for them?
drag... drop... multiply....
damn, it is too complicated, get my Visa card and let's get over it

Face the facts: the average FB user doesn't care about anonymity, privacy or security, they have given up a long time ago - otherwise they wouldn't be using social media, Chrome, Google or Windows 10
They don't give a damn about decentralization, dodging bank cartels and their unethical practices etc etc etc...
and all those above is the heart of cryptocurrencies, this is why Bitcoin and altcoins exist.

So, what is the purpose for those "growth accounts" again?
Why can't you just stake your coins and - if things don't go as planned or just because you feel like it - be able to liquidate at anytime, like in every other PoS coin?

Let alone mining, who would want to mine a coin that is already 80+% premined and in a PoS stage?

Get real...

[rizzlarolla]

I think you guys are missing the point. Anyone who wants to mine (and knows how to do it) can mine the good old way with a standard qt miner. People can and will start mining pools etc and mine Neucoin just like any other PoS coin. Even PoW actually in the first year.

No one has to sign up for any growth accounts. In fact, if you know how to mine why would you? Just mine they way you normally do.

But you forget how insanely technical mining is for 99.99% of the population. There are VERY FEW people who know what this means, let alone how to do it, or that would ever want to have to learn. That's who the growth accounts are for.

Neucoin is going after consumers, not miners and speculators. Sure, they need miners and speculators too - but their whole idea is to get lots of consumers.
And consumers will never download a client. Never, ever, ever. They don't know anything about computers or blockchains. They don't know about mining. Just as they don't know much about bitcoin. Or will ever download a client or even join a mining pool. They just want to click something on their phone.

But if these consumers earns some free coins by playing a game, and if there's an easy way to just click right there on their phone and those coins start to multiply so that he can play even more games, they may think it's cool.

So, the growth accounts isn't the only way you can mine Neucoin. Again, if you know how to mine, just mine. The growth accounts isn't for us here on bitcointalk, it's just a consumer feature for the facebook mainstream who has never even heard of "cryptocurrency". And for them it's pretty great, drop and drag and your coins are multiplying. They key here is easy and fun. That's all the facebook masses care about.

Fun?
Waiting 3 months to play again?

Slowly giving any value you had to the nokoin team. 
Being misled by the nokoin team.
Being lied too by nokoin team.
Being ignored by the nokoin team.
Being guided by the likes of Torrgeek and his "proof of fud" theories.
Being patronised by James.
Wondering if my computer is infected.

Surely your missing the bigger point that you are mining a soon to be worthless coin.

When nokoin Project team grow the balls to tell us how many nokoin they have kept, and will receive, in a clear way, then we will all see the robbery going on here. Maybe even you.
No matter how many shitty nokoin you mine.

Look around you, no one is buying, no one is talking, no one is interested.
People are not as dumb as nokoin hoped.
It's downhill from here.

There is no fun in nokoins hidden plan. 
But you wont ask.
You just don't want to see it yet.

[tempus]

I think you guys are missing the point. Anyone who wants to mine (and knows how to do it) can mine the good old way with a standard qt miner. People can and will start mining pools etc and mine Neucoin just like any other PoS coin. Even PoW actually in the first year.

No one has to sign up for any growth accounts. In fact, if you know how to mine why would you? Just mine they way you normally do.


(...)

Sure, but if you read posts like this one:

Gizfreak: When I read the white paper, I understand that Proof of Stake is aimed to be a big thing for NeuCoin.
However when I take a look at the current QT wallet, I see a quickly done standard QT wallet, that is even very hard to get it staking for an experienced crypto enthusiast like me.
This is far from being understandable for Joe the average staking user, who is attracted by the promise of high stake rewards.
Is there an easier way of staking/minting in the making?

(....)

arcanis:
What exactly would you want the Qt client to do? As I see it, it's hard to be simpler than it currently is, as far as staking is concerned: providen your keys are in the wallet, and the wallet is unencrypted (if it is, then we assume that you know how to unencrypt it), then the client will automatically stake whenever possible without intervention.

Of course, feedbacks are always welcome to better understand what exactly should be improved, UX-wise.


Gizfreak:
Well like eg. having a menu item to unlock/unencrypt the wallet, instead of having to unlock it via the debug window.
Also do I miss information about the staking going on. Yes, I know I can get it with the command "getinfo" in the debug window, but that is also not really user friendly, is it?
And what about the rumor going on that you'd have to have a minimum of 50k coins in your wallet to be able to stake?
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/more-user-friendly-method-of-staking-minting-coming-soon/1891/3

I don't know the Neucoin-QT, but I would expect if a project claims to be the new Mainstream-Crypto with a focus on "easy-to-use" I would expect exactly that, plus a nice and clean design. I know several PoS-QT's, and as far as I know it's always the same:
Files --> Unlock Wallet --> Staking starts. If it's right that people have to do that in the debug window, I really don't understand that.

In my eyes there could be only two reasons:

- incompetence
- intention

And even if I believe that the Neucoin-Devs are most likely not the best Devs around I would assume, that it's intention... because they want to bind Coins in the Growth-Wallets with just three payout-times, which is also weird.

Think about it... why would anybody need a growth account if there would be a user-friendly QT? If I start staking in my BTCD-QT.. it stakes. And I have my BTCD and I can transact them whenever I want.

I really don't understand what some people see in Neucoin.

[greg123]

Hmmmm.... Facebook masses don't give a flying.... duck about crypto, they only care how many "likes" this selfie they took with their brand new iPhone is getting
And, since you don't belong to the Facebook mainstream, who "has never even heard of cryptocurrency", how the duck do you know what is pretty great for them?
drag... drop... multiply....
damn, it is too complicated, get my Visa card and let's get over it

Face the facts: the average FB user doesn't care about anonymity, privacy or security, they have given up a long time ago - otherwise they wouldn't be using social media, Chrome, Google or Windows 10
They don't give a damn about decentralization, dodging bank cartels and their unethical practices etc etc etc...

My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win.

[heavensopen]

My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win.

That narrows it down to 4-5 coins tops - and we all know who is the King

Although, mass adoption is not possible yet, people will have to understand why they must choose using cryptocurrency and this needs time.

[greg123]

Think about it... why would anybody need a growth account if there would be a user-friendly QT? If I start staking in my BTCD-QT.. it stakes. And I have my BTCD and I can transact them whenever I want.

I really don't understand what some people see in Neucoin.

Neucoin is not going after maintream users with a "user-friendly QT". That would be insane! There is no such thing. "BTCD-QT", "staking", etc, it's just mumbo jumbo to 99.99999999999% of users. Consumers will never download a client. Never, ever, ever.

The standard neucoin qt client is for pro miners only - and completely irrelevant for mainstream users.

They are targeting facebook users who don't even know what bitcoin is. I'm totally serious when I say that for them to figure out what PoS mining is, let alone want to try and figure it out, download a "client" and change Settings to "Unlock Wallet for Minting Only" really IS insanely technical. It really is.

So forget about the desktop client, that's not how any facebook users will start adopting cryptocurrency. It's all about reaching them on their turf, in a fun effortless way, with what can be offered through simple web interface. Drop and drag, click and done.

[tempus]

Hmmmm.... Facebook masses don't give a flying.... duck about crypto, they only care how many "likes" this selfie they took with their brand new iPhone is getting
And, since you don't belong to the Facebook mainstream, who "has never even heard of cryptocurrency", how the duck do you know what is pretty great for them?
drag... drop... multiply....
damn, it is too complicated, get my Visa card and let's get over it

Face the facts: the average FB user doesn't care about anonymity, privacy or security, they have given up a long time ago - otherwise they wouldn't be using social media, Chrome, Google or Windows 10
They don't give a damn about decentralization, dodging bank cartels and their unethical practices etc etc etc...

My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win.

I believe that the future of Crypto won't be just about one or two projects. There will be several, maybe ten great projects for different purposes. One will be anonymity and that won't be the Crypto with mass-user-adoption but it will be huge. So, Anon-projects are still interesting but unpredictable. I see Dash and BTCD as most promising, but nobody knows.

Another one could be what Neucoin wants to be. But it won't be a project with 100% interest and 97% premine and a a few early adopters complaining about the tech. And if you talk about Facebook-User and the growth account. There is maybe a contradiction. Because if people would use it to tip, they won't store it in an account they aren't able to touch if they want their interest. Another problem is, even if Neucoin would be a better project: Facebook has absolutely no need to implement a project to make the few owners rich. If Zuckerberg wants something like that he can develop it in a short timeframe. Neucoin is not a real decentralized Cryptocurrency. It's highly centralized.

By the way: There is a project I've just found out and read about it the last 20 hours or something like that. Factom... it has it all what Neucoin just claims to have. It's not with a focus on tipping, but on Blockchain-Application... build on the BTC-Blockchain but with it's own currency Factoids. The most interesting project I've seen so far. Very smart... also unpredictable, but also with a huge team behind it and every aspect I understand so far is really innovative. Like Ethereum build on Bitcoin.

And Ethereum itself... the idea, could be change Crypto in general. I'm not sure about it as an Investment, but the idea is big.

And there are several other projects... I don't see any chance for Neucoin and I don't say that to write it down. It's just what I think about it.

[greg123]

My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win.

That narrows it down to 4-5 coins tops - and we all know who is the King

Although, mass adoption is not possible yet, people will have to understand why they must choose using cryptocurrency and this needs time.

I agree. And for sure Bitcoin has the most users of any cryptocurrency right now. But user adoption isn't happening. It's tiny compared to any reasonably popular app, game or website. And it's not going to grow an iota more from a "user-friendly QT" client, that's for sure.

That's why I think that any coin that can succeed in being easy and accessible for the facebook masses will be in that top 4-5.