Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network

[2dogs]

Hi Ohad,

New poster here, though I have been a follower of the project and an Agoras token holder for several months.

I want to clarify the discount factors that will apply to bulk 'tentative' token sales, and ask you to reconsider the final price.

In your post in this forum on June 29 about solving the crisis, you made it clear that any purchases at the tentative address may be refunded if the tentative tokens sold out. But you did not make it clear that you might increase the price. Indeed you mentioned in previous posts that bulk purchase at the prices shown on the Google spreadsheet would be available until the end of June.

It appears that the tokens reserved for 'tentative' purchases did not sell out. So I think that you should honor the June price of 37.6c for any purchases who sent tokens to the tentative purchase address before July 1 at midnight.

Now, maybe we have no right to complain or make demands. We are being sold tokens for below market price, so that's great!

However, those of us who believed in this project enough to purchase early deserve the full benefit of that. It's unfair that those of us who bought tokens in late June instead of early June are subject to an arbitrary price increase.

Refunding purchases to honor your commitment limiting the tokens sold is fair. Raising prices beyond what you previously offered in June is not.

I sent a lot of bitcoin to that purchase address based on my trust in you, and observing that you had always kept your commitments in the past. I think not honoring the prices offered for June is a bit of a disappointment to the community.

So I'd ask that you reconsider your decision from earlier today, and honor the prices in the below spreadsheet for all tentative purchases made in June.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EjW1s66T75vnWh7WSzuP0vxcx1vdwlqCm2JOmlVlPOg/edit#gid=0

Posts like this is why we need SET rules (that can't be changed) and a set website that shares all those rules (through blog posts). You guys might think a new and active website isn't a priority, but it greatly is.

I'm very disappointed in the fact that after three years the website isn't being used and all the talk is on this forum. So unprofessional it's not even funny. There should be a team to manage all these requests, not Ohad doing everything himself. You should be coming once in a while to update on the progress of your project while letting someone on your team should do most of the talking here. This will also ensure that you can solely work on the project without worrying about what is going on here.

You have enough money now but what are you doing with it? Where are these funds going to? Have you shown us a plan on how these funds will be allocated?

Ohad, you seriously need to update your website if you want some more support for your project. You need to update a new white paper ASAP with a timeline of what is to come... and you HAVE to try to meet the goals at the time you have stated... YOU CANNOT meet your goals without having a date set to reach them. Without a set out plan, your goals will NEVER be reached.

THIS is why you NEED to update your white paper and update on how you are going to use the funds. The more pressure you have to complete a project, the harder you will work on it. And the best way to get that pressure is having a set date on when you are going to complete the project.

I saw a post from Apr 2016 saying how you were going to update the UI for your website, it doesn't look like anything has been done on that end. The website is a crucial part of success too. Of course, the product is the main thing, but theres nothing wrong with hiring a web developer.

Others might disagree, but I have been researching AGRS in several different websites. The main problem people have before investing is the website. They think it looks like a scam and that it hasn't been updated in so long that the project looks like it was abandoned months ago. If you look online, this is the only place to get any news for AGRS. That's not good man.

You HAVE enough money now to get this done, you have enough money now to work solely on getting alpha tau platform running. I expect no more excuses from you. I don't mind waiting another year for your project to be done, but you have to update us on what the fuck you are doing and what your plans are for the rest of the year.

And FFS stop changing your rules all the time. Stick to one thing and stop taking advice from everyone on this board. You can read public opinion, but in the end the decision is yours. The more you flip flop on stuff the less confidence we have in you.

The more I'm reading about this project, the more and more potential I see. But you need to update us, the people who have supported you thus far, on what the fuck you are doing. WE NEED MOTHER FUCKIN TIMELINES and a white paper ASAP. And for the love of god, update your website to modern times. Not something a middle schooler made in his computer science class.

If it smells like a scam....well... red flags all over this one.

[lelouchzero]

Please stop hating on the dev. He's trying to get shit done. Calm down there's been so much going on in 24 hours ppl need to calm the f down

[HIIMHOHAHA]

Hi Ohad,

New poster here, though I have been a follower of the project and an Agoras token holder for several months.

I want to clarify the discount factors that will apply to bulk 'tentative' token sales, and ask you to reconsider the final price.

In your post in this forum on June 29 about solving the crisis, you made it clear that any purchases at the tentative address may be refunded if the tentative tokens sold out. But you did not make it clear that you might increase the price. Indeed you mentioned in previous posts that bulk purchase at the prices shown on the Google spreadsheet would be available until the end of June.

It appears that the tokens reserved for 'tentative' purchases did not sell out. So I think that you should honor the June price of 37.6c for any purchases who sent tokens to the tentative purchase address before July 1 at midnight.

Now, maybe we have no right to complain or make demands. We are being sold tokens for below market price, so that's great!

However, those of us who believed in this project enough to purchase early deserve the full benefit of that. It's unfair that those of us who bought tokens in late June instead of early June are subject to an arbitrary price increase.

Refunding purchases to honor your commitment limiting the tokens sold is fair. Raising prices beyond what you previously offered in June is not.

I sent a lot of bitcoin to that purchase address based on my trust in you, and observing that you had always kept your commitments in the past. I think not honoring the prices offered for June is a bit of a disappointment to the community.

So I'd ask that you reconsider your decision from earlier today, and honor the prices in the below spreadsheet for all tentative purchases made in June.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EjW1s66T75vnWh7WSzuP0vxcx1vdwlqCm2JOmlVlPOg/edit#gid=0

Ohad could have refund all of the deposits in the tentative sale, as he stated.  However, he decided to think on the broad consequences for the project, former investors and new joiners.

Your suggestion will reduce the price and can lead to further loses to people who bought the coins at the peak.

Ohad's suggestion is more than reasonable.

BTW, if you want the June's price (like you suggested), you can easily ask Ohad to unlock the coin to get it.

unlock? lock?

[medstudent]

Please stop hating on the dev. He's trying to get shit done. Calm down there's been so much going on in 24 hours ppl need to calm the f down

I'm sorry but I think the fact that we haven't gotten an updated white paper is really bad. It looks really bad on his part too. He can easily get more funding if he takes those steps I listed and get his project done way faster. And how long does it take to plan out what you're going to do?

He can release an updated white paper within a day or two because it seems like he has an idea of what he is doing.

Saying stuff like "I'm hoping for a release in 2017" instills ZERO confidence in coin holders. FFS it's been THREE years, that's the main point I am getting at. You can make tons of progress in three years if you play your cards right. All he has been doing is working on the development of his project, but if he really believes it to be good, he should have set funds on the side to promote his project, work on the website, work on hiring someone for communication, hire people to help him get his project done faster.

These are all very important steps which he has not done. I'm sure Ohad is an honest guy and wants the product to speak for itself, but he has to realize that even if his product works, if no one knows about it, then it won't go anywhere.

His idea sounds wayyyyy better than most other ICOs I have seen, but why do those other ICOs raise so much more money than he does? Why do those ICOs get their work done in a timely manner? It's called organization and communication.

[goblinman]

Please stop hating on the dev. He's trying to get shit done. Calm down there's been so much going on in 24 hours ppl need to calm the f down

I'm sorry but I think the fact that we haven't gotten an updated white paper is really bad. It looks really bad on his part too. He can easily get more funding if he takes those steps I listed and get his project done way faster. And how long does it take to plan out what you're going to do?

He can release an updated white paper within a day or two because it seems like he has an idea of what he is doing.

Saying stuff like "I'm hoping for a release in 2017" instills ZERO confidence in coin holders. FFS it's been THREE years, that's the main point I am getting at. You can make tons of progress in three years if you play your cards right. All he has been doing is working on the development of his project, but if he really believes it to be good, he should have set funds on the side to promote his project, work on the website, work on hiring someone for communication, hire people to help him get his project done faster.

These are all very important steps which he has not done. I'm sure Ohad is an honest guy and wants the product to speak for itself, but he has to realize that even if his product works, if no one knows about it, then it won't go anywhere.

His idea sounds wayyyyy better than most other ICOs I have seen, but why do those other ICOs raise so much more money than he does? Why do those ICOs get their work done in a timely manner? It's called organization and communication.

this guy gets it, 100% right.

[alphaomega23]

good points, but we need to weigh it comparing to the other hand. selling a lot of unlocked tokens at half the market price is not good for anyone. no?

Ohad, agree we need to weigh it against the consequence of releasing a lot of unlocked tokens -- which will probably result in the market price falling.

But this will happen regardless of the price for which tokens are sold. The affect of the new unlocked tokens on market price is a function of the number of tokens released, NOT the price.

Selling the tokens for below market price benefits the purchasers (and conversely, hurts the seller). But once sold, the original price is a sunk costs as economists say, and all that matters is the *number* of tokens released to the market.

Now I admit there will probably be a small psychological effect, where people who buy well below market price might be encouraged to take a profit now instead of waiting. But this should be a small effect compared to the affect of simply increasing supply.

For that reason, I think it makes sense to offer an especially large discount for buying locked tokens (but of course, at some point those have to be unlocked, and they will affect the market).

But I still think that it's bets for everyone if you sell the limited number of tokens you are going to sell at the June prices.


BTW, you also didn't clarify whether the discount rates for bulk purchases would apply. I think that to be fair, they should.

[IggySe7ven]

So which site do i go to sell this PooCoin for 3 dollars as promised?

[IggySe7ven]

So is the 3 year long pre-sale  over?

[IggySe7ven]

Intelligent Decentralized Networks Initiatives (IDNI)
Welcome
Tau-Chain
Agoras
Blog
Pre-sale
Contact
Blog‎ > ‎
Short Presale Snapshot Update
posted Dec 4, 2015, 5:09 PM by Ohad Asor   [ updated Apr 23, 2016, 5:21 PM ]
From a total of 42,000,000 total tokens, about 3,000,000 were sold up till now (5 Dec 2015), beginning slightly more than a year ago.
The price per token is currently 17 cents per token.
The tokens are only temporary: Once Agoras system is up, they will be replaced with the actual Agoras coins.
“Premine” for long-term development and 3rd party partners is 3%.
All unsold coins up to Agoras' genesis will be destroyed. For example, if you hold 1% out of 42M coins, and only 21M are sold, then with the actual Agoras coins you will hold a fraction of 2% out of all coins.





He was saying he gonna do the same thing and burn all the coins in April 2016.

[vcvitiko]

Please stop hating on the dev. He's trying to get shit done. Calm down there's been so much going on in 24 hours ppl need to calm the f down

I'm sorry but I think the fact that we haven't gotten an updated white paper is really bad. It looks really bad on his part too. He can easily get more funding if he takes those steps I listed and get his project done way faster. And how long does it take to plan out what you're going to do?

He can release an updated white paper within a day or two because it seems like he has an idea of what he is doing.

Saying stuff like "I'm hoping for a release in 2017" instills ZERO confidence in coin holders. FFS it's been THREE years, that's the main point I am getting at. You can make tons of progress in three years if you play your cards right. All he has been doing is working on the development of his project, but if he really believes it to be good, he should have set funds on the side to promote his project, work on the website, work on hiring someone for communication, hire people to help him get his project done faster.

These are all very important steps which he has not done. I'm sure Ohad is an honest guy and wants the product to speak for itself, but he has to realize that even if his product works, if no one knows about it, then it won't go anywhere.

His idea sounds wayyyyy better than most other ICOs I have seen, but why do those other ICOs raise so much more money than he does? Why do those ICOs get their work done in a timely manner? It's called organization and communication.

OHAD wants his work to the talking for him. At least that what I believe.

[IggySe7ven]

So he should have burned all the extra coins by now, where is the update and why isnt my coin worth 3 dollars?

[freedomfighter]

good points, but we need to weigh it comparing to the other hand. selling a lot of unlocked tokens at half the market price is not good for anyone. no?

[/quote]

Ohad. I think that you are being caught off guard with the fomo based price increase (caused by your own 10x talk) and are about to lose something much more valuable.

YOUR WORD is the strongest and ONLY valuable and tangible asset in this project thus far.

It is the basis for the hopes for a white paper "sometime", for new code instead of the old one instead of the older one and it is the only reason aside from an academic discussion to believe in this project.

THUS- you shouldn't make a decision that changes a previous commitment made just a few days ago because there was some FOMO of new comers.

This breaks every rule in the integrity book. You said something, you published an excel with prices just a few days ago, you set a July 1st deadline-

JUST STICK WITH IT.

Locked or unlocked. based on the excel.

The price was also $1.4 a day ago. so what if it was $0.66 at 1pm today? it can be 20 cents again tomorrow. I think you are shooting your self in the foot right now by breaking your word.

Also saying that 10x is not relevant anymore and old talk is also a problem because this was the reason for the FOMO that caused the price to be 1.4 or 0.66 in the first place which is the price point you are now using. You cant have the cake and eat it too.

i am very disappointed if you indeed not change your 1pm decision and go back to what YOU said up to June 28th. NOT FAIR.  

[ohad]

i hear you. and i heard also dozens of more opinions, and with all respect, you're the only one thinking so. i can reconsider everything but i need to see a wider consensus

[AEA]

It looks like everyone is it in for themselves here. Me me me, I want XXX. This isn't an insert coin and he does what you want.

This is a start up. You pay if you believe in the underlying technology and the ability for the dev to execute.

Let the guy build. You should have looked before buying, now you're trying to change what early investors agreed to. All opinions valid ofcourse - even the insults.

If many of you were true investors you'd thank Ohad for being so blunt and honest. The truth is, not many people can understand the majority of the tech in the crypo space but they buy. The past day or two of posts have been eye opening to say the least. There are people still screaming about how cool blockchains are and pushing that garbage in the media when it's just a useless ledger. When you see someone as honest as Ohad, don't moan that you don't like certain elements, be grateful that there's open information so you can make an informed decision. You should avoid things you're not happy with or don't understand or, spend time watching the videos, reading the questions and posts from the beginning of the forum.

Are you really telling me you'd rather have a nice: Website, Blog and everything looking pretty and be 1 year away from alpha more than no website/blog and be 6 months from alpha? Why would you want a website with the same information that you can read on this forum other than it looking nice, raising the price and you dumping your coins.

You also have to remember that this project isn't the job of any normal developer you can hire off Upwork (I just checked certain technical keywords on Upwork to verify and yep you guessed it, no results) Ohad is likely one of the most talented devs full stop, let alone in the crypto space. You don't just "hire" for this kind of project, not many devs understand the project. It's very talented and high level work. All of this "I bought too high" bullshit is meaningless. Are the 1 usd buyers of BTC/ETH/DASH complaining? Tell me if you think they're worried about that time they didn't buy at 50cents. If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.

You bought, you can always sell. Know that Ohad will be going for the product. You need to up your trading game or go long term. There are refunds for those that want out and bittrex for those that want more. Fair is fair. I personally want more.

Ohad, after today i'd free up as much of your time as possible. Give definitive info on the sale of tokens and back to work on the product.  

[ohad]

much appreciated

[monopolist]

Ohad, Just do what's best for the future of the community. The main thing is the final product! Who is not patient - that's his problem! This is a long term project. Most importantly, you were able to implement their ideas. The rest is not so important.

[vcvitiko]

If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.

If Ohad pulls this off, them IRS fuckers will come at us with Black Hawk choppers looking for their cut!!!   

 non sense look at etheruem

[ohad]

all tentative buyers, please get back to me regarding whether you're interested in refund/locked/unlocked, as in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=950309.msg19878061#msg19878061

[medstudent]

It looks like everyone is it in for themselves here. Me me me, I want XXX. This isn't an insert coin and he does what you want.

This is a start up. You pay if you believe in the underlying technology and the ability for the dev to execute.

Let the guy build. You should have looked before buying, now you're trying to change what early investors agreed to. All opinions valid ofcourse - even the insults.

If many of you were true investors you'd thank Ohad for being so blunt and honest. The truth is, not many people can understand the majority of the tech in the crypo space but they buy. The past day or two of posts have been eye opening to say the least. There are people still screaming about how cool blockchains are and pushing that garbage in the media when it's just a useless ledger. When you see someone as honest as Ohad, don't moan that you don't like certain elements, be grateful that there's open information so you can make an informed decision. You should avoid things you're not happy with or don't understand or, spend time watching the videos, reading the questions and posts from the beginning of the forum.

Are you really telling me you'd rather have a nice: Website, Blog and everything looking pretty and be 1 year away from alpha more than no website/blog and be 6 months from alpha? Why would you want a website with the same information that you can read on this forum other than it looking nice, raising the price and you dumping your coins.

You also have to remember that this project isn't the job of any normal developer you can hire off Upwork (I just checked certain technical keywords on Upwork to verify and yep you guessed it, no results) Ohad is likely one of the most talented devs full stop, let alone in the crypto space. You don't just "hire" for this kind of project, not many devs understand the project. It's very talented and high level work. All of this "I bought too high" bullshit is meaningless. Are the 1 usd buyers of BTC/ETH/DASH complaining? Tell me if you think they're worried about that time they didn't buy at 50cents. If Ohad pulls this off, whatever price you bought at today will be nothing compared to the price you'll see when the product is released.

You bought, you can always sell. Know that Ohad will be going for the product. You need to up your trading game or go long term. There are refunds for those that want out and bittrex for those that want more. Fair is fair. I personally want more.

Ohad, after today i'd free up as much of your time as possible. Give definitive info on the sale of tokens and back to work on the product.  

With all due respect, those other projects gave us a white paper and weee also very communicative on their process overall. They all had more than 1 developer too. You really think Ohad is the only one that can do this Work you're fooling yourself. You think a good website wouldn't help his cause out? You're fooling yourself.

All this extra stuff he can do by hiring someone to take care of it. He raised millions of dollars this past month he has the capital. He hasn't released anything new or any product in three years. You can defend him blindly but after three years I'm super worried nothing will come out of this. He hasn't even given a proper timeline for the alpha tau platform which is something he has been working on for the past three years.

You're actin g like Ohd is some genius. If he was he would have taken care of all the other aspects of his business as well. He has the capital so I don't understand why he isn't taking care of this stuff. And yes you can hire more developers dto take care of the time consuming tasks which he hasn't been doing. He hasn't shown us anything man. He hasn't even updated code on GitHub in months. And now he keeps on changing what he's planning on doing with coins. I am losing confidence in him day by day. He won't even respond to my posts on this forum because he knows he's fucking up.

You guys can look at it optimistically, but I take everything through pessimism. I don't wanna rely on "hope". 8 I wanna rely on work and tangible progress. And once again, saying he's the only person on the world that can do this is very far fetched. There's millions of people who can help him out on this project but why isn't he hiring anyone? Because he's failing on his project.

And if he was so blunt and honest, he would show us the progress he has already made. He would show us where the money he raised is being allocated, etc. saying that "I hope it's done in 2017" is not being blunt or honest, it's leading people on. I've read through his old posts and he goes back and forth a lot. He did this whole presale thing in April of 2016, read some of the earlier posts. He's pulling the same shit again. Until we get more transparency from him, we are all getting conned, imo. You know what would ease my mind as well as many other people? A simple updated white paper on the goals of this project and a timeline in which all these goals will be accomplished. Is that really too much to ask? Like seriously, I'm getting pissed he can't even provide us with something as simple as a white paper. It's making me lose complete confidence in him.

Also the price went up like 30 cents in years... only due to speculation of a 10x price increase, how is this instilling confidence in the project or Ohad?

[haribole]

all tentative buyers, please get back to me regarding whether you're interested in refund/locked/unlocked, as in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=950309.msg19878061#msg19878061

Hello Ohad

I am new user to this forum, and am a tentative buyer as in I sent you funds in onmiwallet yesterday, and just sent you an email regarding my interest in the tokens with my omniwallet address.

Thanks for the great work!