ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[cp1]

Yeah, I was talking about TAT.ASICMINER (1/100 shares) -- thought that's what the poster was asking about.

[burnside]

After much planning and preparation, I'm proud to announce that Havelock & TAT Investments will be providing a new venue for you to trade full shares of ASICMINER.

This asset works much like ASICMINER-PT on BTCT.co, with total support for importing & exporting of direct shares as well as ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER

This passthrough also pays 100% of dividends!

Launch Date/Time to be announced soon! Imports are being accepted immediately!

As part of this launch the other fractional passthrough, named ASICM, will be renamed to AM100, to make the names more informative:
AM1 = Full Shares
AM100 = Fractional Shares
NOTE: None of the fractional shares are currently eligible for importing into this new asset (TAT.ASICMINER, nor AM100).

Full details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253673.0

Fantastic news!

So what is the advantage of this one compared to bitfunder and btct.co ? And what kind of profit will TAT get ?

The advantage over BitFunder is that the trade fees are lower, and the export restrictions are better at Havelock.

The advantage over BTCT & BitFunder is that I will allow importing of other PT shares (ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER) without having to go through Friedcat first.

Havelock is paying me a small fee to manage the asset in order to have it on their exchange. There are no management fees against dividends.

Worded slightly differently from the ASICMINER-PT perspective:

- No advantage over BTCT on the trade fees.
- No advantage over BTCT for importing/exporting directly with Friedcat.

+ AM1 advantage over ASICMINER-PT for fast imports from other exchanges.  (great idea TAT, we may have to borrow this!)

Regarding ASICMINER-PT exports, DeaDTerra and I both support direct exchange transfers already, it just takes a day or two for Friedcat to confirm the transactions between our respective ASICMINER accounts.

- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for volume.
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for counter-party risk.  You have to trust three organizations (AM, Havelock, TAT) with your shares instead of just two. (AM, BTCT)
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for counter-party risk.  BTCT sends full shareholder lists directly to Friedcat via email several times a day.  If BTCT closes suddenly, Friedcat already has records of what everyone owns to within the last few hours.

I'll also re-iterate that BTCT has no management fee.  100% of divs are passed through.

Cheers.

[Vycid]

After much planning and preparation, I'm proud to announce that Havelock & TAT Investments will be providing a new venue for you to trade full shares of ASICMINER.

This asset works much like ASICMINER-PT on BTCT.co, with total support for importing & exporting of direct shares as well as ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER

This passthrough also pays 100% of dividends!

Launch Date/Time to be announced soon! Imports are being accepted immediately!

As part of this launch the other fractional passthrough, named ASICM, will be renamed to AM100, to make the names more informative:
AM1 = Full Shares
AM100 = Fractional Shares
NOTE: None of the fractional shares are currently eligible for importing into this new asset (TAT.ASICMINER, nor AM100).

Full details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253673.0

Fantastic news!

So what is the advantage of this one compared to bitfunder and btct.co ? And what kind of profit will TAT get ?

The advantage over BitFunder is that the trade fees are lower, and the export restrictions are better at Havelock.

The advantage over BTCT & BitFunder is that I will allow importing of other PT shares (ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER) without having to go through Friedcat first.

Havelock is paying me a small fee to manage the asset in order to have it on their exchange. There are no management fees against dividends.

Worded slightly differently from the ASICMINER-PT perspective:

- No advantage over BTCT on the trade fees.
- No advantage over BTCT for importing/exporting directly with Friedcat.

+ AM1 advantage over ASICMINER-PT for fast imports from other exchanges.  (great idea TAT, we may have to borrow this!)
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for exports.  There is currently no way to export your shares to direct shares from AM1 and no way to export your shares to other exchanges.  As of this post it's a one way trip.  Note that they do say it's coming via a web based form, but unless it supports plugging in a destination of exchange:username (eg bitfunder:burnside) you will not be able to transfer direct from exchange to exchange like you can now between Bitfunder and BTCT.  DeaDTerra and I both support direct exchange transfers already, it just takes a day or two for Friedcat to confirm the transactions between our respective ASICMINER accounts.

- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for volume.
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for counter-party risk.  You have to trust three organizations (AM, Havelock, TAT) with your shares instead of just two. (AM, BTCT)
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for counter-party risk.  BTCT sends full shareholder lists directly to Friedcat via email several times a day.  If BTCT closes suddenly, Friedcat already has records of what everyone owns to within the last few hours.

I'll also re-iterate that BTCT has no management fee.  100% of divs are passed through.

Cheers.

And so the PT wars begin...

[Adrian-x]

That fee is very small right? I tried to find it for btct but couldn't, anyone know what the dividend cut is?

5%

That might be worth it.. anyone use havelock and like them?

For the most part I trust them. (They are open and reliable)
I have seen them buy some obsolete server hardware on auction for mining just before ASICs were released (a huge waist of cash) IMO abuse but at least it is public.

I like there platform and in general they have been discerning. Not 100% sure about AM1 (at least I have a problem with contributors having "thieves" in there name.) And I can't see how they make revenue from that stock.

HMI the primary fund will benefit from the AM100 stock, in that it gives them a board seat. It still remains to be seen it Power corrupts, and if there success leads to generosity or greed. But for now to 12 months away it looks good.

[burnside]

And so the PT wars begin...

LOL, nah.  It's not like that.  

Just want to make sure people know the differences so they can pick what fits them personally.  Pretty awesome how many great options there are out there now.

[ThickAsThieves]

After much planning and preparation, I'm proud to announce that Havelock & TAT Investments will be providing a new venue for you to trade full shares of ASICMINER.

This asset works much like ASICMINER-PT on BTCT.co, with total support for importing & exporting of direct shares as well as ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER

This passthrough also pays 100% of dividends!

Launch Date/Time to be announced soon! Imports are being accepted immediately!

As part of this launch the other fractional passthrough, named ASICM, will be renamed to AM100, to make the names more informative:
AM1 = Full Shares
AM100 = Fractional Shares
NOTE: None of the fractional shares are currently eligible for importing into this new asset (TAT.ASICMINER, nor AM100).

Full details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253673.0

Fantastic news!

So what is the advantage of this one compared to bitfunder and btct.co ? And what kind of profit will TAT get ?

The advantage over BitFunder is that the trade fees are lower, and the export restrictions are better at Havelock.

The advantage over BTCT & BitFunder is that I will allow importing of other PT shares (ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER) without having to go through Friedcat first.

Havelock is paying me a small fee to manage the asset in order to have it on their exchange. There are no management fees against dividends.

Worded slightly differently from the ASICMINER-PT perspective:

- No advantage over BTCT on the trade fees.
- No advantage over BTCT for importing/exporting directly with Friedcat.

+ AM1 advantage over ASICMINER-PT for fast imports from other exchanges.  (great idea TAT, we may have to borrow this!)
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for exports.  There is currently no way to export your shares to direct shares from AM1 and no way to export your shares to other exchanges.  As of this post it's a one way trip.  Note that they do say it's coming via a web based form, but unless it supports plugging in a destination of exchange:username (eg bitfunder:burnside) you will not be able to transfer direct from exchange to exchange like you can now between Bitfunder and BTCT.  DeaDTerra and I both support direct exchange transfers already, it just takes a day or two for Friedcat to confirm the transactions between our respective ASICMINER accounts.

- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for volume.
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for counter-party risk.  You have to trust three organizations (AM, Havelock, TAT) with your shares instead of just two. (AM, BTCT)
- AM1 disadvantage over ASICMINER-PT for counter-party risk.  BTCT sends full shareholder lists directly to Friedcat via email several times a day.  If BTCT closes suddenly, Friedcat already has records of what everyone owns to within the last few hours.

I'll also re-iterate that BTCT has no management fee.  100% of divs are passed through.

Cheers.

Please correct your post, it is incorrect.

AM1 has the same export abilities as ASICMINER-PT, the form that is being added is an ADDITIONAL convenience to have better security and proof of identity to avoid export fraud. Your portrayal of interexchange transfers as anything different than using FC as a medium is misleading as well.

Yes, AM-PT has more volume, for now

AM1 also provides 100% of dividends without management fees.

Havelock also backs up all shareholder counts and emails, and I also do so independently.

Your portrayal of counterparty risk could also be painted as a negative for BTCT because the exchange operator running his own assets is a conflict of interest. I won't go into detail why this is undesirable, because I don't want people to think I am making accusations in that regard.

[Elmore ASIC]

That fee is very small right? I tried to find it for btct but couldn't, anyone know what the dividend cut is?

5%

No dividend cuts on btct.co's ASICMINER-PT.  ASICMINER-PT has no management fee.

TAT.ASICMINER maybe 5%?

stick with burns here folks = he is the man! 

[burnside]

Please correct your post, it is incorrect.

AM1 has the same export abilities as ASICMINER-PT, the form that is being added is an ADDITIONAL convenience

I apologize if I read the contract incorrectly:

How to Export to Direct Shares:
1. Use the upcoming Share Export Form page at HavelockInvestments.com

Upcoming tends to infer that it does not yet exist?  I did not see mention of another method of transfer.

Your portrayal of interexchange transfers as anything different than using FC as a medium is misleading as well.

Nah, it's exactly how I described it.  User contacts DT, says "I want to transfer to ASICMINER-PT"  or user contact me, says "I want to transfer to G.ASICMINER".  DT and I then transfer directly from one PT to the other via Friedcat.  This is much faster than transferring out of one, then into the other.  One transfer rather than two.

Your portrayal of counterparty risk could also be painted as a negative for BTCT because the exchange operator running his own assets is a conflict of interest. I won't go into detail why because I don't want people to think I am making accusations in that regard.

I don't think an exchange (Havelock) paying issuers to operate assets is much different.    Such situations could potentially be abused, but it's not very likely on a PT.  

Cheers.

[jmutch]

That fee is very small right? I tried to find it for btct but couldn't, anyone know what the dividend cut is?

5%

That might be worth it.. anyone use havelock and like them?

I've been dealing with Havelock management over the last couple of weeks regarding the listing of my fund. They seem quite professional and are looking at ways to make it a more prominent exchange.

The platform is easy to use once you spend 5 minutes getting the hang of it.

It seems like TAT and Burnside are essentially offering the same service from the POV of an investor. It may come down to trust issues. (for some reason i trust burnside more than TAT, but that's just me)

I'd like to note that there is a slight difference in trading fees: .4% when selling on Havelock compared to .25%+.25% when buying and selling on btct.co

[ThickAsThieves]

User contacts DT, says "I want to transfer to ASICMINER-PT"  or user contact me, says "I want to transfer to G.ASICMINER".  DT and I then transfer directly from one PT to the other via Friedcat.  This is much faster than transferring out of one, then into the other.  One transfer rather than two.

Exporting to Friedcat or DeadTerra's or Burnside's accounts with Friedcat are all fair game with AM1. The form will be up in a matter of days, and any export requests will be facilitated within the timeframes mentioned above.

I apologize if the form aspect makes things unclear for the moment, but the purpose is to provide better service, not lesser. I have added some temporary language to the description to clarify this while Havelock builds the form out.

I don't think an exchange (Havelock) paying issuers to operate assets is much different.    Such situations could potentially be abused, but it's not very likely on a PT.  

The situations are quite different.

The potential conflicts of interest of being an exchange operator and asset issuer at the same time include these possibilities:
- The operator can stall arbitrage by delaying manual bitcoin withdrawals. This provides a front-runner advantage by delaying bitcoin withdrawals to buy cheaper elsewhere before other BTCT.co customers can.
- The operator can trade freely, without worrying about most trade fees. This provides opportunity to inflate volume, and manipulate prices with low risk.
- The operator can see who owns shares, who represents any order, who is depositing/withdrawing coin, who is importing/exporting shares, who is running bots, and pretty much anything that may give an advantage over customers.

I want to be clear that I respect Burnside and BTCT.co, and I am not accusing anyone of anything, but the reality is that a PT operator has much less power than one that is also running the exchange.

[freedomno1]

As anyone who attended last August's IPO skype camera meeting could tell, I'm not in the photo.

Ha-ha So he does read it now and then  
Great to hear from you

After much planning and preparation, I'm proud to announce that Havelock & TAT Investments will be providing a new venue for you to trade full shares of ASICMINER.

This asset works much like ASICMINER-PT on BTCT.co, with total support for importing & exporting of direct shares as well as ASICMINER-PT & G.ASICMINER

This passthrough also pays 100% of dividends!

Launch Date/Time to be announced soon! Imports are being accepted immediately!

As part of this launch the other fractional passthrough, named ASICM, will be renamed to AM100, to make the names more informative:
AM1 = Full Shares
AM100 = Fractional Shares
NOTE: None of the fractional shares are currently eligible for importing into this new asset (TAT.ASICMINER, nor AM100).

Full details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253673.0

Saw this a while ago nice TAT
Was not expecting another pass but it makes sense as hav only was using the 1/100's
To world domination XD

Havelock is a good exchange been using them for a long while now by a while I mean before fees  

Havelock
Trading Fees
Trading fees effective June 1st, 2013, are a very low 0.4% of the transaction value, calculated only when SELLing units. There is no fee for BUYing units.
0 Buy 0.4% Sell

BTCT
0.25% Buy/Sell 1FA 0.2% Buy/Sell 2 FA
Trades using 2FA (Buyer): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades using 2FA (Seller): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades not using 2FA (Buyer): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)
Trades not using 2FA (Seller): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)

Bitfunder for reference
Tier   Volume    Max Fee Rate
Tier 1   ฿0 BTC   1%
Tier 2   ฿50 BTC   0.9%
Tier 3   ฿100 BTC   0.8%
Tier 4   ฿500 BTC   0.7%
Tier 5   ฿1,000 BTC   0.6%
Tier 6   ฿2,500+ BTC   0.5%

[burnside]

Updated my post up above regarding export transfers.  Definitely not worth stirring things up over it.

I'd like to note that there is a slight difference in trading fees: .4% when selling on Havelock compared to .25%+.25% when buying and selling on btct.co

.2%+.2% if you turn on 2FA.  Positive reinforcement.  

[JordanL]

Having to decided between two very trustworthy, well-run passthroughs is what you call one of them good problems. We can always use both.   :-)

[freedomno1]

Having to decided between two very trustworthy, well-run passthroughs is what you call one of them good problems. We can always use both.   :-)

True enough he-he slight edit
Having to decided between two very trustworthy, well-run passthroughs is what you call one of them first-world problems. We can always use both.   :-)

[dhenson]

I'm surprised during this whole comparison that the Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT isn't being called out on slow dividend payments.

[burnside]

The situations are quite different.

...

Very good points.  

Response here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125629.msg2704053#msg2704053

[DeaDTerra]

I'm surprised during this whole comparison that the Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT isn't being called out on slow dividend payments.

Probably due to that it varies,
Sometimes I am the fastest,
Sometimes I am the slowest.
It depends on what else is going on and how fast I can get things done.
//DeaDTerra

[Taxidermista]

Where is the 10th of July announcement?

[jmutch]

Where is the 10th of July announcement?

This was posted on the 10th.

As anyone who attended last August's IPO skype camera meeting could tell, I'm not in the photo.

But in all seriousness, I'm a bit disappointed that there hasn't been word on the half-blades....It'd be a good time to know how to read Chinese characters I think.

[Taxidermista]

Where is the 10th of July announcement?

This was posted on the 10th.

I've checked friedcat posts and did not see any announcement yesterday.