ElectricMucus
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
|
|
September 20, 2013, 08:50:49 PM |
|
FYI in 2006 worldwide nuclear power generation was 0.93 TW and hydroelectric was 1.00 TW.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Be very wary of relying on JavaScript for security on crypto sites. The site can change the JavaScript at any time unless you take unusual precautions, and browsers are not generally known for their airtight security.
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
romerun
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1001
Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
|
|
September 20, 2013, 09:28:46 PM |
|
what just happened to labcoin again
|
|
|
|
supert
|
|
September 20, 2013, 09:42:39 PM |
|
what just happened to labcoin again
and activemining just imploded (board resigned and liquidated all shares).
|
|
|
|
VolanicEruptor
|
|
September 20, 2013, 09:46:11 PM |
|
bought back in with 50 shares below 1.80. nice to be back.
|
|
|
|
Vycid
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
|
|
September 20, 2013, 09:46:11 PM |
|
what just happened to labcoin again
and activemining just imploded (board resigned and liquidated all shares). And NEOBEE is trying to pull off the biggest IPO in Bitcoin history. It'a a big week for Bitcoin securities. In other news, this is the ASICMiner thread.
|
|
|
|
Puppet
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
|
|
September 20, 2013, 09:55:48 PM |
|
But then everyone stops mining, difficulty drops and after a time it becomes profitable to mine again. Until everyone starts mining again and then the cycle repeats. There will be a limit to the amount of energy used. It won't rise "to the moon".
Of course there is a limit. That limit is profitability: Total mining reward == total electricity cost + hardware write off. IOW, total electricity use per hour == ~3600 BTC / (Price Kw/H + hardware write off per hour). Add any mining fees to that 3600 if you want, and divide by 2 for each block reward halving. In reality over time hardware write off will become a non factor, and average electricity cost in BTC will be the only variable that will determine the overall electricity use of the bitcoin network. No cycles or moons involved unless both electricity and hardware would be free, in which case you get div/0 or infinity.
|
|
|
|
SebastianJu
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
|
|
September 20, 2013, 09:59:08 PM |
|
Now where did I see a comparison that said that one major bank central office used probably more electricity than all the bitcoin mining in the world ...
That can't be true, I would be surprised OK lets try a wild estimate I use less than 1KW to do well over 100GH/s So lets go with 1KW for 100GH/s That's a way over-estimate for some of the high hashing devices and a way under-estimate for any of the old devices anyone is silly enough to keep mining with The bitcoin network is ~1PH/s So that's like 10,000KW That seem too high for a big bank's main data centre head office? If it is then say how about 10 of them? Certainly not too high for 10 of them. All guesses, but certainly makes that argument above seem far from certain. Since wind mills have a power production of 4 to 7.5MW nowadays that means 2 wind mills alone could run the whole bitcoins network power usage world wide. I think its a good comparision.
|
Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
|
|
|
Puppet
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
|
|
September 20, 2013, 10:12:40 PM |
|
Since wind mills have a power production of 4 to 7.5MW nowadays that means 2 wind mills alone could run the whole bitcoins network power usage world wide. I think its a good comparision.
Its a good sound bite for now, and certainly an acceptable reality, but this is only because currently the biggest cost is still by far the hardware. Over time that will evaporate and we will be left only with electricty cost. ~3600 BTC/hr * $130/BTC / $0.1 Kw/H = 4680000KW or 4680MW Not sure if your argument will still be as convincing if you have to say bitcoin even in its current infancy at just $130 would require ~1000 large windmills and possibly close to 5x as much with russian electricy prices.
|
|
|
|
SebastianJu
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
|
|
September 20, 2013, 10:28:35 PM |
|
Since wind mills have a power production of 4 to 7.5MW nowadays that means 2 wind mills alone could run the whole bitcoins network power usage world wide. I think its a good comparision.
Its a good sound bite for now, and certainly an acceptable reality, but this is only because currently the biggest cost is still by far the hardware. Over time that will evaporate and we will be left only with electricty cost. ~3600 BTC/hr * $130/BTC / $0.1 Kw/H = 4680000KW or 4680MW Not sure if your argument will still be as convincing if you have to say bitcoin even in its current infancy at just $130 would require ~1000 large windmills and possibly close to 5x as much with russian electricy prices. When i think about its correct when not taking the asicprice into account... even when the bitcoin reward is halved again and again... the bitcoin exchange price has to rise when bitcoin will be a worldwide currency at one time. That means the reward is again higher then and more power can be bought with it. So only a low bitcoin exchange price could lower the power usage. On the other hand... the price for asics will settle at some point. That will be the newest and fastest asic with the best speed and low power usage. The production cost then will be the biggest limiting factor since all miners plan to get their investment back. I wonder if there is a problem then.
|
Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
|
|
|
stslimited
|
|
September 20, 2013, 11:55:37 PM |
|
so with Asicminer at 3% of the network, is the promise of some next generation chips really holding the share price up where it is?
|
|
|
|
adamstgBit
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
|
|
September 21, 2013, 12:34:40 AM |
|
so with Asicminer at 3% of the network, is the promise of some next generation chips really holding the share price up where it is?
idk whats going on, i hope that they are proceeding with all their might. is their a capital problem? can we just give them more money so they hire more chip builders! we need to start pumping out the gen 2 chips yesterday!
|
|
|
|
Vycid
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
|
|
September 21, 2013, 12:49:03 AM |
|
so with Asicminer at 3% of the network, is the promise of some next generation chips really holding the share price up where it is?
I don't know, but this is the thinnest I've seen the bid order book in months. Less than 600 BTC on bids.
|
|
|
|
Endlessa
|
|
September 21, 2013, 12:50:00 AM |
|
so with Asicminer at 3% of the network, is the promise of some next generation chips really holding the share price up where it is?
I don't know, but this is the thinnest I've seen the bid order book in months. Less than 600 BTC on bids. Welcome to being the one holding the bag
|
|
|
|
Vycid
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
|
|
September 21, 2013, 12:51:42 AM |
|
so with Asicminer at 3% of the network, is the promise of some next generation chips really holding the share price up where it is?
I don't know, but this is the thinnest I've seen the bid order book in months. Less than 600 BTC on bids. Welcome to being the one holding the bag You must be new here.
|
|
|
|
empoweoqwj
|
|
September 21, 2013, 02:54:15 AM |
|
I went through old friedcat posts and realized that last three updates in this thread were posted month apart. And now it's around one month since last one. I guess we should expect update any day now. (last posts were june 21st, july 23rd and august 22nd)
yeah, another imaginery bitcoin for me (I get one every time someone says "FC is about to post")
|
|
|
|
BitHub
|
|
September 21, 2013, 02:56:24 AM |
|
"i dreamed a dream" - Morpheus.....RIP ASICMINER.
|
|
|
|
empoweoqwj
|
|
September 21, 2013, 02:57:06 AM |
|
what just happened to labcoin again
and activemining just imploded (board resigned and liquidated all shares). there's a shock. I said at the time Ken couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery let alone create a mining company.
|
|
|
|
lophie
|
|
September 21, 2013, 03:42:24 AM |
|
"i dreamed a dream" - Morpheus.....RIP ASICMINER.
Sell all shares and watch from a distance. Thank you.
|
Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
|
|
|
Strange Vlad
|
|
September 21, 2013, 05:31:42 AM |
|
Of course there is a limit. That limit is profitability: Total mining reward == total electricity cost + hardware write off.
IOW,
total electricity use per hour == ~3600 BTC / (Price Kw/H + hardware write off per hour).
Add any mining fees to that 3600 if you want, and divide by 2 for each block reward halving.
In reality over time hardware write off will become a non factor, and average electricity cost in BTC will be the only variable that will determine the overall electricity use of the bitcoin network. No cycles or moons involved unless both electricity and hardware would be free, in which case you get div/0 or infinity.
Dude why are you always using wring numbers? Only 250 BTC per hour are generated, a bit more if the network speed is on the rise, slightly more because of fees, okay let it be 300 BTC/hour, so for power price of 1 BTC/MWh it would be just 300 Megawatts. M2 money supply = $10,789B Bitcoin market cap = $1.576B
10786/1.576 ~ 6846x Today's price ~ $120
6846 * $120 = $821,543
Assuming (incorrectly) that the only fiat that can be displaced is the US dollar.
Times 1.36M a year, divided by avg $0.10/kW (It'd be much cheaper if you put the bitcoin hardware at the powerplant to avoid transmission losses)
1.36M * 821543 / .1 =1.117 e13 kW-h per year
About 8766 hours a year
1.117 e13 / 8766 = 1274582135 kW = 1.274 TW
That is an ecological disaster. Not to mention dirty, nasty sources of electricity will be used in an attempt to bring down the cost per kW-h (which will result in an increase in the total watts needed for equilibrium).
And you, why are you comparing market supply with market capitalisation? You should either compare BTC money supply with $ money supply (but with BTC the money supply works differently so hard to compare), or BTC market cap to $ market cap (that's what I did). But then even if whatever you say is ridiculously true then nobody really cares, the green ecocentric scum uses leftist governments every day to slow progress and raise costs for everyone, maybe at least with BTC they will suck because governments cannot defend them and their phony propaganda. We'll use as much energy as we can afford, and we'll generate as much as we need, no way to change that.
|
Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. 1CdVTkA288cd3m1jkdqPjUfhQ5ebei8gVT
|
|
|
conv3rsion
|
|
September 21, 2013, 05:53:26 AM |
|
Dude why are you always using wring numbers? Only 250 BTC per hour are generated, a bit more if the network speed is on the rise, slightly more because of fees, okay let it be 300 BTC/hour,
I hate to be that guy, but since you corrected his numbers: 150 BTC are generated each hour (6 blocks per hour * 25 btc per block) non adjusted. At a difficulty increase of roughly 33% average per period, we are closer to 200 BTC per hour in actual inflation.
|
|
|
|
|