ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[spartan82]

Thank you? Really? For what? Are you satisfied with this answer? Only words ... we knew all of this crap before. Numbers matters, chip selling price. Rockminer can't be preferred in chip sales.

This is what is important :

ASICMINER should rethink their approach here, and sell the chips to the highest bidders as well as mine for themselves.

I'll patiently wait for update from Jutarul or Friedcat on this.

I've asked for a clarification meeting on these issues.

EDIT : Btw sure Rockxie, you are saint. You want only help poor ASICMINER, it is not about your personal profit at all. Truth is that you'll purchase chips from anybody who will offer you better price, you mentioned this in you IPO thread, that you'll be looking also for AVALON and BITMINE chips.

Sorry to chime in here but the bloke never mentioned that he is running a non profit organization. If Rockxie can get cheaper chips from bitmine and Avalon so be it. Everyone goes into business to make money and I'm sure that fc shares the same view. Now that everyone is aware that fc/asicminer does not hold shares with Rockxie then I'm sure that will ease asicminer investors. The fact that Rockxie came out to say that they will be looking for Avalon and bitmine chips should be enough to say that asicminer chips will not be their one and only preference, so there is no guarantee that they will be getting these chips at a ridiculously low price.

[explorer]

Sorry to chime in here but the bloke never mentioned that he is running a non profit organization. If Rockxie can get cheaper chips from bitmine and Avalon so be it. Everyone goes into business to make money and I'm sure that fc shares the same view. Now that everyone is aware that fc/asicminer does not hold shares with Rockxie then I'm sure that will ease asicminer investors. The fact that Rockxie came out to say that they will be looking for Avalon and bitmine chips should be enough to say that asicminer chips will not be their one and only preference, so there is no guarantee that they will be getting these chips at a ridiculously low price.

    As a AM shareholder, Rockxie will profit more from buying AM chips than Avalon or others, so all else being equal, he's going to buy AM chips.  That is good for all AM shareholders.  If other manufacturers can supply him and leave a greater profit margin than even the effective rebate of buying AM chips, then AM chips are truly not competitive, and they will be better used for in-house mining. Either way AM shareholders profit.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

^^ @spartan82 : It's not a point. I don't care about RM, all I care about is AM here. "so there is no guarantee that they will be getting these chips at a ridiculously low price" ... so we should only Hope & Believe™ then? Nope. I want to see proof and facts.

[necro_nemesis]

Would have preferred stated alliance over partners.

Would preferred the statement that FC has no interest in RM or benefits from it's performance. (no holding company, whether shares account for 100% of the company,  whether there are reimbursements, etc).

[jdany]

FC is the only chipmaker that has delivered exactly as promised every single time.
Not a single misstep.
Kept pricing on Blades & BE's perfectly marketable right up to the end.

The Gen2 thing is just part of doing business.
He was smart enough to pull the plug on something that wasn't going to work out.

The guy is smart.  He's savvy.
He's not going to give a special deal to someone on chips, without getting something of equal value in return.

As investors, we get short sighted some times...  especially when we don't have a copy of the plan.
But in this industry, you have to keep your plans on the DL.  Or else, your competition catches up quick.

I'm not worried until I have a reason to be.

[necro_nemesis]

But in this industry, you have to keep your plans on the DL.  Or else, your competition catches up quick.

I'm not worried until I have a reason to be.

I am seeing unanswered questions that have zero risk of negatively affecting the company's performance but are vital to stock performance. There's no need to leave those questions unanswered.

[jdany]

They really need PR.

[necro_nemesis]

I fully expect sensitive issues to remain under wraps but questions regarding the public side of the shareholder holdings require attention. I really don't need to hear about past performance being justification for not having expectations. This was sold as shares and not bonds to be repaid through dividends.

[minerpumpkin]

I am seeing unanswered questions that have zero risk of negatively affecting the company's performance but are vital to stock performance. There's no need to leave those questions unanswered.

They really need PR.

Remember, I believe in and trust FC/AM and am also all for more information coming through. Simply playing devil's advocate here: Friedcat couldn't care less about the share price or communicating every minor detail. As long as the plan works out and he gets his share.

[necro_nemesis]

Remember, I believe in and trust FC/AM and am also all for more information coming through. Simply playing devil's advocate here: Friedcat couldn't care less about the share price or communicating every minor detail. As long as the plan works out and he gets his share.

Which is contrary to why companies go public. If you look at any well managed company the stock price is multiples of it's earnings.

[minerpumpkin]

Remember, I believe in and trust FC/AM and am also all for more information coming through. Simply playing devil's advocate here: Friedcat couldn't care less about the share price or communicating every minor detail. As long as the plan works out and he gets his share.

Which is contrary to why companies go public. If you look at any well managed company the stock price is multiples of it's earnings.

Yes, well, it doesn't apply here. Again: What incentive does Friedcat have to keep the stock price high?

[server]

Only 18,750 Rocketminer IPO shares of 75,000 were offered to the community in a 3 minute session... so maybe 20 guys got lucky ?!?

I believe a lot of the guys posting here have also RM shares so they're not objective, their only goal is highest possible profit for Rocketminer.
Only thing they need is Asicminer selling chips at lowest price possible and making max. margin on the hardware.

If you ask me this setup is the oldest trick in the book.

[edit]
But I could be wrong
[/edit]

[cs54]

Just curious -- Was anyone here familiar with Rockxie before the RM hubbub?  I know folks have said he's respectable and an AM board member, but I wonder who had actually heard of/interacted with him/her.

[necro_nemesis]

Yes, well, it doesn't apply here. Again: What incentive does Friedcat have to keep the stock price high?

Simple 236,038 shares that would have far greater value than what the company earns this one round. In an environment where shareholder confidence is high he can sell shares at multiples of earnings without concern for effecting the price of the stock. Happens everyday on the market as declared insider trades.

When it was low or as it is could be perceived as low he could also offer to buy back shares if he wanted to do away with the investors, but he hasn't done that.

[shawshankinmate37927]

Hi, guys, I'm sorry to puzzle you, RockMiner is a new start-up compay which is just a business partner of ASICMINER. We are going  to purchase AM's chips to produce miners and  there will be many companies  like us. Yes,I'm a board member of ASICMINER ,but that doesn't mean I can't start my own miner business since ASICMINER is starting to sell chips. What we want to do is do our best to be the one of the most powerful partners of ASICMINER and to help ASICMINER  achieve greater goals. BTW, ASICMINER or friedcat has no shares of ROCKMINER at all. Most of ROCKMINER shares were purchased by users of this community after I posted the IPO topic. We will release board member information later at our official website of rockminer.com.

Thank you all.

-- Rockxie

Yes, there will be many companies buying AM's chips and of course you're free to start your own mining business, but surely you can see why some AM shareholders are justfiably concerned.  Especially if a "business partner" is able to be first in line and is then able to purchase chips for less than other businesses would presumably be willing to pay.  Don't you think that your business is getting preferential treatment?  As an AM board member, do you think this is the best way for AM to maximize profitability?

[bitfair]

ASICMINER should rethink their approach here, and sell the chips to the highest bidders as well as mine for themselves.

While I understand the concern, I totally disagree with selling the chips by auction: the buyers of the chips need to make investments too (parts, shop space, etc.), and selling the chips by auction would create too much uncertainty around their operation (would they win the auction, would they manage to get a reasonable price, etc.). In the end, I think the uncertainty would scare potential buyers/partners away.

Auction would be a good form for end-user devices, or perhaps one-time buyers, but to build stable working relationships based on auctions is not possible.

In either case, we have no reason to believe that RM is treated any differently than other buyers, I think some of you guys have too much imagination. Are there any indications whatsoever that RM is getting preferential treatment? (But then again, with so many scams around, I don't blame you for being cautious.)

Questions for the list I would like answered:
1) What are future plans?
2) Size of batch 1?
3) What challenges does the regulatory uncertainty in China pose and how is it being dealt with?

[necro_nemesis]

Only 18,750 Rocketminer IPO shares of 75,000 were offered to the community in a 3 minute session... so maybe 20 guys got lucky ?!?

I believe a lot of the guys posting here have also RM shares so they're not objective, their only goal is highest possible profit for Rocketminer.
Only thing they need is Asicminer selling chips at lowest price possible and making max. margin on the hardware.

If you ask me this setup is the oldest trick in the book.

[edit]
But I could be wrong
[/edit]

There was also a series of refunds that went on after with the IPO which gave the impression of shares later going to select individuals. Can someone explain what happened here?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t8LBCzA9JIPk_1_sKlwSybQ/htmlview?pli=1

[minerpumpkin]

Yes, well, it doesn't apply here. Again: What incentive does Friedcat have to keep the stock price high?

Simple 236,038 shares that would have far greater value than what the company earns this one round. In an environment where shareholder confidence is high he can sell shares at multiples of earnings without concern for effecting the price of the stock. Happens everyday on the market as declared insider trades.

When it was low or as it is could be perceived as low he could also offer to buy back shares if he wanted to do away with the investors, but he hasn't done that.

My thoughts, why friedcat doesn't care about the share price (which isn't bad)

Bitfountain's total number of shares is simply too high to be sold at a given market price. Selling even 1% of the shares would completely crash the market. During the 0.25 period there's been an especially low volume. Why would Friedcat keep the price up when he isn't even certain he'll be able to deliver gen 3 (which was uncertain back then).
He also stated that he doesn't like to work for others and prefers to work for himself, so he doesn't intend to sell the shares. Simple as that. This way, by doing a good work, he and his team ("Bitfountain") get 2/3 of everything that's considered profit. If they sold all their shares (which would be very very difficult due to the market depth), they'd have no reason to keep up the good work because they'd earn nothing. But by retaining 2/3 of the shares, they get the majority of the income while having the incentive to continue performing well. I believe it generates more income to continually do decent business, than dumping all your shares - which, again, is rather difficult.

A "normal" company would do as you describe. But this is Bitcoin land. It is unregulated, the rules are gray at best, everything can happen. We're basically at FC's mercy. But he has proven himself to be trustworthy, a good businessman and engineer. And this is more than you get at, say, 90% of Bitcoin companies. It simply is the most profitable thing for him to just keep up the good work. The stock price doesn't matter to him. If he wanted to do a final big scam (which I highly doubt, but of course can't guarantee it won't happen), he'd fabricate some awesome news or collect money for pre-orders. No one would suspect anything due to his high trustworthyness. But even that wouldn't be wise, since the market depth would - again - be too low to really profit him. And he'd lose all his potential future income. Again, simply keep up the good work is the way to go.
And I, for one, am not concerned, he'll pull off something bad, since I believe him to be an honest person. But remember, this is no investment/trading advice and I can't be held accountable.

tl;dr: He simply has no reason to care for the share price. Keeping the share price up or pulling of a scam would be incredibly stupid, both profit-wise and  future-business-wise

[Lohoris]

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% ...

When I was investing into this company ~ 1 year ago, it was publicly known that ASICminer's goal is to maintain at least 10% of global hashrate, so i did some calculations and bought shares. I was investing into mining company which goal was to mine bitcoins. I was not investing into chip manufacture which will be selling chips for fiat after one year. But yeah ... I am now in huge 75% loss, no point of selling now. I feel quite fucked by ASICminer.

If people were willing to buy those chips for more BTC than the expected amount the chip was going to mine in its lifetime, obviously selling them was a great choice.

[E f f e c T]

If there is anyone here who is looking to sell a large amount of shares via havelock transfer please PM me. Escrow only. No exceptions.