It is far from clear cut that they wouldn't have been able to meet the original delivery date. Ever hear of JIT manufacturing? If you know Avalon chips are going to be delayed you don't order PSUs or any other components that are on a quick turn around. If you know you've got an X week lead time on cases you don't order them until X weeks before you need them. If you're expecting the first batches of chips in a month and your prototype board isn't quite ready then you take a gamble on being able to get it ready. That's still not clear cut that you won't meet the delivery date as promised.
How could they have known the chips were going to be delayed? We supposedly didn't find this out until Yifu posted some blurbs on a blog. TH was supposedly operating on the same information that we were, which was that the chips would arrive 9-10 weeks after placing the orders. They were delayed long before that announcement. Maybe they were waiting on a shipping notice that never came. Maybe they were waiting on delivery to their doorstep. Maybe they're clairvoyant. Whatever their reason for not ordering the components you cannot say that there was no way for them to make the delivery date, and call them charlatans and liars, any more than I can say with certainty that they would have, and that they are God's angels sent to deliver us Bitcoins. I'm just anti-speculation based on false logic. That's all. No, none of this is possible. If they were waiting on delivery that would have only given them two weeks, well there is stuff they ordered weeks ago that won't come in until next week or the week after. They must have known there was a delay or they simply weren't able to meet the delivery date. If they knew there was going to be a delay, they should have stated: "it has come to our attention that there will be a delay in the chip shipments by approximately 2-3 weeks, etc." |
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It is far from clear cut that they wouldn't have been able to meet the original delivery date. Ever hear of JIT manufacturing? If you know Avalon chips are going to be delayed you don't order PSUs or any other components that are on a quick turn around. If you know you've got an X week lead time on cases you don't order them until X weeks before you need them. If you're expecting the first batches of chips in a month and your prototype board isn't quite ready then you take a gamble on being able to get it ready. That's still not clear cut that you won't meet the delivery date as promised.
How could they have known the chips were going to be delayed? We supposedly didn't find this out until Yifu posted some blurbs on a blog. TH was supposedly operating on the same information that we were, which was that the chips would arrive 9-10 weeks after placing the orders. |
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We need to know why TerraHash and others haven't united to approach Avalon regarding compensation. They agreed to have the chips within a certain time-frame from ordering, i.e., 9-10 weeks. If they did not deliver the chips by then they have not met the requirement and need to compensate for that. If their product was not time-sensitive, it would not be an issue. Avalon needs to compensate relative to the BTC loss.
I would hope group buy organizers are already communicating in private to some extent. Unfortunately, I imagine their attempts to communicate with Bitsyncom would be just as fruitless as anyone else's. They can fix that by having a lawyer do their communications in order to get a face-to-face conversation regarding some damage compensation. Bitsyncom can afford to knock a bit off the price of the chips relative to the lost time - that shouldn't be a huge deal. They don't have to have a lawsuit, they just need to force him into talks, get him to stop playing the stupid "I'm not here right now" game. Settle on an agreement. |
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All the group buys have to do is force Yifu and Avalon into face to face talks and place some legitimate damage compensation remedies on the table then move forward with what that will be. Yifu is going to play ball because it is too stupid not to. He made mad profit off this he can return a few percent of it back to counter the losses. Its not that big of a deal if people will just make it happen. Who wouldn't do that? Its baffling. I sure as hell hope you didn't order anything from BFL! lol, what we are going through is childs play compared to that mess...I dont recall reading about anyone suing them??? I never said dick about a lawsuit, stop dropping strawmen argument in here. You are such an ignorant shillbag. Bicknellski is the only one I have heard actually try to get anything going, everyone is quiet as a dead baby. I know im just so dumb I am clueless, and I know that you and you alone only knows everything about what ought to be done, forgive me for ever doubting your wonderfull depth and wisdom on such complex matters,,,what are you 19 or something? lol lil wussy please leave here now vagil before i call the cops on ya EDIT: your nothing other than a loud mouth trouble maker lately! we know your kind You are forgiven. |
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I'm simply amazed at the naivety and unrealistic expectations in this thread. On the one hand people willingly gave money for a product that didn't exist in an industry with a track record fostered by the likes of BFL. They want Terrahash to be totally professional and above board, which is understandable, but on the other hand they want them to divulge all kinds of information that no professional company would ever dream of doing. I'm not in the least bit surprised that Terrahash remains mostly silent on much of what's being asked of them. From what I can tell the main question is when will you ship. And the answer hasn't changed since day one - two weeks after we get the chips from Avalon. But I gotta tell you this. It makes for some excellent reading!  "Divulging information that no professional company....?" WTF is this? |
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All the group buys have to do is force Yifu and Avalon into face to face talks and place some legitimate damage compensation remedies on the table then move forward with what that will be. Yifu is going to play ball because it is too stupid not to. He made mad profit off this he can return a few percent of it back to counter the losses. Its not that big of a deal if people will just make it happen. Who wouldn't do that? Its baffling. I sure as hell hope you didn't order anything from BFL! lol, what we are going through is childs play compared to that mess...I dont recall reading about anyone suing them??? I never said dick about a lawsuit, stop dropping strawmen argument in here. You are such an ignorant shillbag. Bicknellski is the only one I have heard actually try to get anything going, everyone is quiet as a dead baby. |
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What don't you understand about there is nothing to talk to Avalon about. If you try to threaten them, they delay your chips and you are royally screwed. If you try to contact them they don't pick up or reply. Maybe you don't understand the concept of being held by the nuts. Do you think Terrahash wants this delay? You have to be NUTS, they stand to make a ton of money from mounting peoples chips. Go read a nice long book I recommend this for you, by the time you are done Avalon will have delivered the chips and you can decide what to do from there. Of course there is. They missed their contractual deadline. If Avalon doesn't want to answer the phone then TerraHash and the group buys need to get a lawyer to force talks with them. How hard is that for you to understand. Avalon isn't going to want a lawsuit so they will compromise and make-up for lost time. they don't have to actually go through the whole process of litigation, they can negotiate. First, if they were even a US Based Company (I believe they are a Chinese Company) even if you "lawyered" up, it would take years to come to any sort of conclusion or remedy. Secondly, if they are a Chinese based company they will literally laugh at you if you mention the word lawyer. Sorry but this is how is it. Also someone already suggested this, do you really think you can "Out lawyer" them when they are sitting on 70,000 bitcoins? Avalon is a US based company. It would not take years it would take like a week or two once everyone was together and decided what they were going for. Stop spreading FUD. The only point is to put some pressure on Avalon to compensate for their wrong-doing. It would be the cheapest route for them. Right now he is just laughing cause no one has the balls to make it happen. So he hangs up and doesn't answer messages. If I had the money I would just sue the total fuck out of him and completely bankrupt any chances he has of ever getting anywhere for fun. |
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I think the group buy leaders need to come together in a single thread and gather a list of questions for avalon to answer. Am really not impressed with Avalon dumping the news and not sticking around to answer a few questions.. Like were are those HK chips?? Lets face it this ain't a few $$$'s were talking about... Lets see some shipping and tracking info...  +100% |
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What don't you understand about there is nothing to talk to Avalon about. If you try to threaten them, they delay your chips and you are royally screwed. If you try to contact them they don't pick up or reply. Maybe you don't understand the concept of being held by the nuts. Do you think Terrahash wants this delay? You have to be NUTS, they stand to make a ton of money from mounting peoples chips. Go read a nice long book I recommend this for you, by the time you are done Avalon will have delivered the chips and you can decide what to do from there. Of course there is. They missed their contractual deadline. If Avalon doesn't want to answer the phone then TerraHash and the group buys need to get a lawyer to force talks with them. How hard is that for you to understand. Avalon isn't going to want a lawsuit so they will compromise and make-up for lost time. they don't have to actually go through the whole process of litigation, they can negotiate. |
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Bottom line is they have a responsibility to require that Avalon compensate them for damages but they are silent and have no intention of doing so.
How do you know what Terrahash is or isn't doing? You do realize that things do happen that aren't posted on the bitcointalk internet forum, right? Where are these things posted? And don't they have an obligation to tell customers what sorts of deals they may or may not be arranging? We are the ones that need to be compensated. Its not a damn secret, they can send out an email to let us know they are in talks with Avalon over the situation. Or they could say "we are in talks but we can't discuss this info until everything is agreed to." |
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For me, I want the Klondikes. Not refunds preferably. And after that I want to reorder more from TH. I'm giving it another 1-2 weeks on the chips and for more accurate info on time frame. yifu said they will begin shipping late this week. So lets see. I'm sure TH wants them as badly as we do.
Then why aren't they putting pressure on Avalon to compensate for not meeting their deadline? |
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Bottom line is they have a responsibility to require that Avalon compensate them for damages but they are silent and have no intention of doing so.
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We need to know why TerraHash and others haven't united to approach Avalon regarding compensation. They agreed to have the chips within a certain time-frame from ordering, i.e., 9-10 weeks. If they did not deliver the chips by then they have not met the requirement and need to compensate for that. If their product was not time-sensitive, it would not be an issue. Avalon needs to compensate relative to the BTC loss.
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TerraHash, everyone wants you all to be successful with this project and others, but can you please respond to my question regarding Avalon? Here was the comment/question: What we really need you to do is team up with the other group buys and do something to get the point across to Avalon. They are late. They broke their end of the deal, they need to be made to own up to that in real compensation terms. Are you all working with the other group buys to get something done about that or are you just playing the waiting game? Because that isn't enough. You all should have been arranging some kind of at least warning-shot action at the beginning of August or whenever the deadline came around for 9-10 week delivery. |
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 We have only ordered components that were either absolutely necessary for assembly (BOM components) or ones that had a big lead time (Cases, heat sinks, cables). Boards and PSUs, once ordered, can be delivered within 24-48 hours. The reason we did not spend money on these is, in case Avalon chips never show up, we would be able to refund some of our customers money. 1. PSUs: Can be delivered within 48 hours, after we get the chips. We could have ordered them right now, and they could have sat here idly while we wait on the chips, or a huge waste of money in case the chips never arrive. A PO without delivery dates? This isnt kindergarten. Give us a date! We paid you to build our orders cept you are not spending the money to get it done. Wait wasnt that the reason why you changed your story on the refund deal? You told us you spent the monies already? WTF2. Cases: 3-4 weeks lead time. Will be here early next week. We could have rushed the delivery by paying extra, but for what? That is fine... give us a date. This is an item that seems like is being delayed indefinitely. Give us a date stick to it and let us know when completed3. PCBs: 1-2 day lead time. We could have ordered these as well, but again, for what? For the chips that may never arrive? So you lied that you had them? Wait wasnt that the reason why you changed your story on the refund deal? You told us you spent the monies already? WTF 4. BOM components: They are ALL here. You can come count them. I'll post pics later. You said the same thing for many of the aforementioned items. When will you post the pictures?5. Chips: We have ordered 40,000 chips DIRECTLY from Avalon. The additional 30,000 chips that we mentioned, are totally separate from our own 40,000. We still haven't decided whether to pull the plug on those 30,000. This is fine-- and frankly very relieving to hear. Please dont change your story again. I thought the PICs are still on order? Thing is though, how did they know the chips weren't coming two weeks ago in order to not yet order the parts? Because had things gone as we all expected them to, you shoud have had the chips end of July or beginning of August and would be shipping out units early this week, i.e., tomorrow, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. Cause we were all going to have our orders by Aug. 15. |
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I'm not trying to be too harsh on TH, but they pretty-much changed their story with every update. They never wanted to reveal the full details of anything and instead tried to paint things over a bit. From the lack of activity in this forum, it seems like a lot of people already got out of their purchase a while ago. There are about less than 10 different people who post here.
Probably because most of the customers are leveled headed rational people and are patiently waiting. 2 or 3 mouthy derps does not equal the majority of people who purchased from Terrahash (Probably one of the reasons they don't bother replying, too much troll) 1-Denial 2-Anger <-- you are here3-Bargaining 4-Depression 5-Acceptance Bargraphics is somehow taking a cut on the TH operation, that is why he bashes anyone who states facts about the situation. Remember, he went to TH. He is paid to quiet down the dissenters. lmao... yeah i hope not. That would be pretty bad if true... Re-assessment: 1-Denial <-- Bargraphics2-Anger 3-Bargaining 4-Depression 5-Acceptance Terrahash... please tell us when you will have the below issues resolved... 1. No PSUs (You said next week... but give us a date)2. No Cases (You said you'd have this friday 8/9 but no updates yet)3. No Boards (You said you had them, then we find out you still dont have them... when will you receive them?)4. No BOM components to populate the boards with (You said you had them, then we find out you still dont have them... when will you receive them?)5. No Avalon chip orders other than the first 20K (this is pretty serious... give us a date of when you plan to secure the orders)Yeah, they told us they had enough chips to complete all the orders - Not True. In fact, nothing they have stated is true. They kept telling lies or half-truths all the way. We have only ordered components that were either absolutely necessary for assembly (BOM components) or ones that had a big lead time (Cases, heat sinks, cables). Boards and PSUs, once ordered, can be delivered within 24-48 hours. The reason we did not spend money on these is, in case Avalon chips never show up, we would be able to refund some of our customers money. 1. PSUs: Can be delivered within 48 hours, after we get the chips. We could have ordered them right now, and they could have sat here idly while we wait on the chips, or a huge waste of money in case the chips never arrive. 2. Cases: 3-4 weeks lead time. Will be here early next week. We could have rushed the delivery by paying extra, but for what? 3. PCBs: 1-2 day lead time. We could have ordered these as well, but again, for what? For the chips that may never arrive? 4. BOM components: They are ALL here. You can come count them. I'll post pics later. 5. Chips: We have ordered 40,000 chips DIRECTLY from Avalon. The additional 30,000 chips that we mentioned, are totally separate from our own 40,000. We still haven't decided whether to pull the plug on those 30,000. Again, in case the chips never arrive, we might be able to return a portion of everybody's money. But if you insist, we will go ahead and order PSUs/PCBs etc and spend all that money. Your choice! Fine, sounds like a good plan. What we really need you to do is team up with the other group buys and do something to get the point across to Avalon. They are late. They broke their end of the deal, they need to be made to own up to that in real compensation terms. Are you all working with the other group buys to get something done about that or are you just playing the waiting game? Because that isn't enough. You all should have been arranging some kind of at least warning-shot action at the beginning of August or whenever the deadline came around for 9-10 week delivery. |
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guys, back to the issue here: CUSTOMS
Will the chips be confiscated by customs? How long will it take customs to process the chips and ship them out? Which customs are they at? China or United States? What routes must the chips take, lets say the chips leave customs monday, how long best case for us to get the chips and whats a realistic worst case scenario? Who all thinks that our group buys will get the chips before sept 1st?
Shouldn't you be first asking: Do you believe the chips are stuck in customs? If so, then why are they stuck? And before that: Do you believe that there is any chips? There were chips. Quai Gon Jin took them and chased Avalon employees through the streets of China. Yifu found refuge in a sewer which led too Lo Pan's Labyrinth, defeated the divine form of Lo Pan, and rescued the green-eyed virgins. He then traveled to Amsterdam and informed us that he is still alive. Call me a realist, but if I interperet you story correctly;  Basically you're saying he hoped over to 'dam, dropped some shrooms, got stoned, screwed around in the red light district windowshopping by the canals, picked up a green-eyed hooker who told him she was a virgin and totally forgot about the chips until Interpol were mentioned on a forum... Yeah, pretty much. |
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I'm not trying to be too harsh on TH, but they pretty-much changed their story with every update. They never wanted to reveal the full details of anything and instead tried to paint things over a bit. From the lack of activity in this forum, it seems like a lot of people already got out of their purchase a while ago. There are about less than 10 different people who post here.
Probably because most of the customers are leveled headed rational people and are patiently waiting. 2 or 3 mouthy derps does not equal the majority of people who purchased from Terrahash (Probably one of the reasons they don't bother replying, too much troll) 1-Denial 2-Anger <-- you are here3-Bargaining 4-Depression 5-Acceptance Bargraphics is somehow taking a cut on the TH operation, that is why he bashes anyone who states facts about the situation. Remember, he went to TH. He is paid to quiet down the dissenters. lmao... yeah i hope not. That would be pretty bad if true... Re-assessment: 1-Denial <-- Bargraphics2-Anger 3-Bargaining 4-Depression 5-Acceptance Terrahash... please tell us when you will have the below issues resolved... 1. No PSUs (You said next week... but give us a date)2. No Cases (You said you'd have this friday 8/9 but no updates yet)3. No Boards (You said you had them, then we find out you still dont have them... when will you receive them?)4. No BOM components to populate the boards with (You said you had them, then we find out you still dont have them... when will you receive them?)5. No Avalon chip orders other than the first 20K (this is pretty serious... give us a date of when you plan to secure the orders)Yeah, they told us they had enough chips to complete all the orders - Not True. In fact, nothing they have stated is true. They kept telling lies or half-truths all the way. |
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guys, back to the issue here: CUSTOMS
Will the chips be confiscated by customs? How long will it take customs to process the chips and ship them out? Which customs are they at? China or United States? What routes must the chips take, lets say the chips leave customs monday, how long best case for us to get the chips and whats a realistic worst case scenario? Who all thinks that our group buys will get the chips before sept 1st?
Shouldn't you be first asking: Do you believe the chips are stuck in customs? If so, then why are they stuck? And before that: Do you believe that there is any chips? There were chips. Quai Gon Jin took them and chased Avalon employees through the streets of China. Yifu found refuge in a sewer which led too Lo Pan's Labyrinth, defeated the divine form of Lo Pan, and rescued the green-eyed virgins. He then traveled to Amsterdam and informed us that he is still alive. |
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I'm not trying to be too harsh on TH, but they pretty-much changed their story with every update. They never wanted to reveal the full details of anything and instead tried to paint things over a bit. From the lack of activity in this forum, it seems like a lot of people already got out of their purchase a while ago. There are about less than 10 different people who post here.
Probably because most of the customers are leveled headed rational people and are patiently waiting. 2 or 3 mouthy derps does not equal the majority of people who purchased from Terrahash (Probably one of the reasons they don't bother replying, too much troll) 1-Denial 2-Anger <-- you are here3-Bargaining 4-Depression 5-Acceptance Bargraphics is somehow taking a cut on the TH operation, that is why he bashes anyone who states facts about the situation. Remember, he went to TH. He is paid to quiet down the dissenters. |
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