That is the point. I don't feel competent to evaluate security practices. The best practice I've seen is the derivatives exchange Bitmex ... but they are only derivatives and don't accept US-based customers. Beyond that, I've reached the point where I don't trust anyone. Which means I'm done putting coins anywhere, and that hurts bitcoin businesses that I had been patronizing.

When you consider opening an account at a local Credit Union, BofA branch, or Citibank, do you need to consider their relative security measures? No. It is all basically the same. What one does consider is the level & type of service one will get.

Meanwhile today I've been busy withdrawing coins from several online sites (wallets, gambling, investment) that I have grown accustomed to using regularly. I don't trust any of it, and suspect I'm not alone. Multiply my retreat over thoussands of btc users and you see that transaction volume just plummets. I'm not coming back until there is some fundamental change ...

I'm sure they believed it was secure. That is the problem. Nobody knows how to ensure security. Pat answers like 'cold storage' or 'offline paper wallets' don't cut it. There needs to be some ironclad, ecosystem-wide protocol that all but ensure against wholesale theft like this.

I'm not a tech expert, but BFX has always been the exchange gold standard for me. In the early days I inadvertently logged into a fake Bitfinex site and had about US$10k worth of coin taken from my account. Bitfinex was partially to blame because I was having issues and they gave me poor guidance. But they made me completely whole, earning my wholesale trust.

Later they lost or had stolen their stale accounts, so I lost some dust-like transactions then. Now this. It seems even the most experienced, largest exchanges/wallets/entities are unable to ensure security. I just don't trust the ecosystem anymore.

The security breach at Bitfinex is just beyond the pale. No online wallets/businesses are trustworthy. I can't with a clear conscience recommend that anybody invest in or hold cryptocurrency until the community puts an end to the rampant theft.

I'm slow, and overdue, but now taking all my coins offline to a cold wallet, and not coming back until there is some fundamental change in security protocols, such that I will never risk suffering a 100% loss like some have experienced at Bitfinex. **I didn't have a btc balance at bfx at the time of hack, but I only got lucky.

Hey man, I do DCF for a living, but haven't bothered here for a couple of important reasons. First, OP has arbitrary control over 'expenses' and a whimsical dividend policy. Reality is that for these 'securities' the 'dividends' are going to be whatever OP pulls out of his ass that week, or that month. Speaking of, he's also likely to arbitrarily buy back the 'tokens' at a price of his own choosing. Wherefore your terminal value then?!? He doesn't get them listed, or sees that they only trade on Bustabit, and then buys them back at a price of his own choosing. Sound like fun? Run that through a DCF and see what it gets you.

And his argument for not tapping moneypot's bankroll just doesn't sound right. He could tap MP's roll, while still also investing in his own action I would think. In fact he could have a very flexible exposure to his action, or the action across entire MP app universe.

Anyway, CAGR of MP's bankroll' returns has been well over triple digits for months. It would take something pretty compelling to make me look elsewhere. If Bustabit had an investable bankroll I'd definitely be looking closely.

**Sorry if I came off indignant wormat22. This deal doesn't look reasonable to me. And your post (quoted above) sounds like something Kramer would say on some cheesy Saturday morning show.

Hi - i intermittently invest in the bankroll at moneypot, and play a bit as well. *Love that site, and thanks for your original work there.

I haven't really followed the saga behind your sale to the current owners. Is there some bad blood or ill will? Why wouldn't you simply hook back up with MP and effectively free up your funds from the bankroll?

Your thread caught my attention because I like to invest in casino bankroll, and would love to get a piece of the house as well. I bump into two issues with your offer though. First is that I'm illiquid for the time being so I don't have much to invest. Second is that you are not simply offering a bankroll stake, but an equity stake of sorts, so I would have to do a rough valuation to make sure I'm getting fair value. How did you arrive at the value of the 'tokens' that are on offer?

*If you don't explicitly provide a valuation, I think many people won't take the trouble to look carefully themselves, and your crowdsale will flounder.

**My real assumption  is that you are a smart cookie, and the tokens are significantly overvalued. But you are taking a free shot at potentially profiting from some of the alt-coin/investment frenzy we've been seeing of late.

As it stands, if the tokens launch, I'll try to follow performance and maybe buy in if the prospective returns justify it.

Twitchycrotch .... yeah this ass clown has been masturbating in bitcoin poker games for a quite a while. I don't even play Betcoin with any regularity, but I remember plomonster at Satoshi Poker (he's alright) and his word (poker) is gospel with me. Just ban crotch's IP and ignore his posts.

Welcome to my ignore list Twitchycrotch. Have a nice day.

Payment received for the first week. Thank you Lutpin!

It is not even close for me.

He has broadway cards: most likely a big pair, AK, AQ, KQ ... maybe JJ but less likely

As such, the odds of him also having 2 clubs are extremely low. My guess is AA or AK with the Ace of clubs.

I try to get as much in as I can on the river, knowing he might fold Aces to a shove. Thus depending on stacks & pot, I might reraise rather than shove. Regardless, I definitely want a call. I don't want to see a re-raise, but I have to call if it comes. He'll beat me with a bigger flush sometimes ... but I try to play the long game and not worry too much about it.

It is still in development. Nothing has happened ... that is largely the problem to-date, lol.

Wow, you couldn't make this sh*t up. The crypto-currency concept needs a complete rework around security and unintended consequences. The absolutist approach implodes again, and again, and again.

Many of us couldn't help but always have this sense that ETH would blow up like this, but we set those fears aside, until it hits the fan.

When you want to look at the DAO chart, or Eth chart, or some odd chart that you normally don't look at every day, do you have a go-to spot, exchange, website or other, to reliably find a very good, dynamic real-time chart?

Of course I go to bitcoinwisdom.com and coinmarketcap.com like everyone else, but the former only offers charts on the handful of major currencies, and the latter's charts are terrible, in my view. So where do you go?

Thanks in advance.

I'm curious if OP has tried advertising on some of the torrent sites, where people are currently sharing thousands of songs basically for free? Offer those people a chance to make $$ from something that they are currently doing for free, and I would guess you could get some takers.Then again, that might be problematic for artists/labels who have a beef with torrents? Lol ...

Your project looks interesting. Biggest problem for me is that I don't want to leave a PC on and connected to the internet ... I don't want to personally provide that caching service. My preference is to be a passive investor. So it doesn't seem like it makes sense for me to participate. Not to mention it will be an illiquid investment in an extremely high risk venture. Worth watching for now perhaps.

A couple years ago, when I first got involved in bitcoin, I was opening accounts at the various exchanges, and opened an account at CampBX as well. I gave up on it pretty quickly, however, as there were too many negatives: pain in the ass to deposit fiat, unresponsive customer service, terrible liquidity. I wouldn't look again unless there was a change in ownership, or there were lots of trusted reviews citing how things have turned around there.

OP is probably looking at CampBX for possible arbitrage. I telling him many of us have looked at it before, and it is just not worth it.

Lets check our definition of 'gambling.' I think there are a few of us who withdraw some of our btc from gamblng sites in order to trade btc directly on the exchanges. This trading itself can be characterized as another form of gambling, excepting it takes place on an exchange and not at an online casino.

So yes, I think that during times of increased btc volatility, many players trade their coins directly rather than 'gamble' with games in the casino. When the btc volatility settles down, those same players return to the casino sites.

Exactly 3 days before halving I'm selling my BTC for cash. On the day before halving I'm going to buy all the coins you are dumping. Then I'm going to spend the next year reading your sob stories on BitcoinTalk about how you lost so much trading and your threads entitled 'How can I earn more bitcoins!?!' Lol ..

In my view it is not really true that the community invested $150-mil. You should understand that the DAO participants by and large all made much much smaller investments in Ethereum a couple of years ago. Those tiny investments have ballooned into some silly digits. So in many ways that $150-mil you talk about is 'fun money,' or money that fell from a tree and available to parlay into the next big adventure. Go Big or Go Broke as they say ...

TL;DR: It's not real until one sells and buys something real. 'Ether' is not real value ... it is barely air, until it is sold.

Jackpot, MP, lets all take a big breath as we're all in this together, and we're on a nice growth vector. (I'm just a player/bankroll investor, but I'll still use 'we' ... lol.)


DDOS are to be expected when a BTC-based business begins to grow and attain some size. And attackers use the angst from customers and stakeholders (app operators) to blackmail the sites.

Jackpot- lets be fair. We all knew from simple observation that MP had come under DDOS attack. My funds were tied up, my withdrawal was hung up for ~24 hrs unrelated to DDOS: I didn't panic and I didn't need an immediate explanation as to what was going on and what was being done about it. And yes, I do also lose return on my bankroll investment, which I do watch closely. Because I KNEW from experience that it was a DDOS attack, and I KNEW from experience that MP guys were reliable and on the case.

Remember, every trial and setback that we overcome makes us stronger. My confidence and excitement for this platform continues to grow.

If it is any comfort, i did the same thing withdrawing from MP a couple days ago. Finally received my coins after almost 24 hrs. Just be patient. If you visit the Bitcoin tech forums you will see that lots of people are currently having this issue. I'm not the best technologist so I don't quite understand why this is suddenly a problem, but apparently it is. Hopefully the bitcoin ecosystem can iron this stuff out without having transaction fees spiral upward.