Because nobody can possibly know what a good requirement is, and what a reasonable amount of MN cap is.
We need a reliable mechanism that will help us find out the best price, because we are just humans. We are greedy and we are not infallible.

No human has the intellect to outwit the free market. Therefor we need to implement a free market mechanism to decide for us.

This is decentralization SQUARED!


Also, just so you are happy: if you want to run a secure SPR MN that nobody can challenge, then use this formula:

The amount of SPR deposit in your DM should be BIGGER THAN (All Available SPR) / (Max DM count) .

It is possible to run a secure SPR MN anytime, and the necessary amount will be easily predictable.

Yes, but only if you are the weakest link, which is your own responsibility NOT TO BE, if you want to run a secure MN place.

Also, it's not like you "lose your MN". You keep your SPR, you keep your server. It's just that your MN is temporarily excluded from the "club".

You can try again with +1 SPR sir, or you can monitor the DM Spread and reenter when the MARKET PRICE for a DM is more in your favour.

We haven't even scratched the surface here of what will be possible and how people will react.


Your inaction (running an MN with an irresponsibly low amount of SPR) is met with the action / initiative of a newcomer who is willing to overbid you (he acts MORE responsible than you).
It is always good for the market and any distributed system when the ACTIVE people (who show initiative and responsibility) are REWARDED, and the INACTIVE people are PUNISHED.
It's as simple as that.


You can "pool together" with everybody regardless what the underlying coin is. But is this a decentralized trustless action? No, in the contrary. Many things can go wrong, and the incentive for bad players to abuse any "pool" like agreement is here.

You will not be taken away by a whale. The amount of allowed SPR MNs will be very high, certainly in the thousands.
We will have something between 1000 and 10k Masternodes in Spreadcoin, that's for sure. Not less and probably not more.
A whale can't possibly own all the coins to kick out all the other MN owners.

Sure, he can probably kick out the MNs in the lower 50-100 ranks, but how is he going to kick out the MN owners in the middle or upper part of the spread?
(As an example let's assume a spread of SPR deposits between 500 SPR and 10k SPR per Masternode: yes the whale can kick the owner of a 500-600 SPR MN out, but not all the SPR in the world are going to kick the guy with the 10k SPR out of the club.
YES, he might kick the 10k SPR guy from rank 950 to rank 550, but he will still be safe! That's the point.)

Good point.

That's why Spreadcoin must enable instantX first, so that we can start experimenting with our fast and lean DMs.
(Let the anonymization/darksend stay outside for the moment.)

With even faster transactions (already we have 1 min) we could create an economy that uses SPR for everyday business.... so the DMs owners trying to setup a monopoly will have it EVEN HARDER to get to those coins for cheap, since most of the coins should not be in DMs ANYWAY, but in the hands of normal trading people. (buying/selling things, offering services, etc.)

So over the next years, it really depends how many coins will even be available for DM owners.

Also I so wonder how big the spread will be between the DM with the fewest SPR and the DM with the highest SPR... this will be so interesting to watch.

This is another characteristic of this coin that perfectly fits its own NAME, can you believe it.  

So the next questions to ask are:

1) What is the perfect amount of max DM (Decentralized Masternode)?
2) Do we even need a minimum required amount of SPR to run a DM (Decentralized Masternode)?


My noob answers:

1) I have no idea. I understand that data bloat is a problem, but I suppose if we implement something like Darksend then the bloat will obviously be very high. But what if we forget about DarkSend for the moment, and concentrate on InstantX?
So the sole purpose of decentralized masternodes will first only be to serve as instantx facilitators? So those Decentralized Masternodes will earn SPR for enabling instant transcations, right?
That's enough incentive for many investors to buy SPR and setup masternodes (DM), I am sure about that.

2) I don't think so, once people start outbidding each other to catch a valuable DM, you don't need a minimum price. It's like when in ebay you see valuable things with a starting price of 1$. The seller is not stupid, it's not like he will lose out here. In the contrary, the cheap price encourages MANY MANY bidders to bid, MORE than what an initial HIGH price (like 1000 DRK) would ever be able to attract.

So that's the other difference between SPR and DRK, if we leave the min price out, we will attract so many investors it will blow us out of our socks!

But... Yes exactly! lol

Price Discovery will kick in immediately and drive the price of a DM (Decentralized Masternode) to whatever value makes sense for ALL the market participants.
The people will decide what the price should be.

Also, you can't bid the requirement up to the max, since THERE IS NO MAX!

Also, if the price of a DM gets too high, say it gets to 100k SPR, then you could only create 200 DMs with the whole coin supply, so this doesn't even make sense.

All this tells me that we will have a price discovery that will lead to a perfectly balanced price per DM.

Should the price get too high, then those DMs will all take so many SPR out of the coin supply, that the remaining allowed DMs can be setup cheaper!

So, why should a DM owner put too much SPR into his DM? He will not want to put to many SPR in a DM because this will reduce his profitability.
Because, remember, a DM with 100 SPR earns the same amount like a DM with 100k SPR. But the first one has a lifespan of probably 10 seconds.  

Yes, this is the big question. How to derive the most perfect max DM amount.

Once set it shouldn't be changed. Certainly not by a human. Maybe somehow monitor "the health" of the network and have the protocol adjust the max DM amount (IF it is necessary to adjust it over time. It probably isn't.)

The requirement to run a DM (decentralized Masternode) will start at 1 SPR if I understood Mr.Spread correctly.
Because it is not necessary to set a minimum deposit price, much like it is not necessary to set a maximum deposit price.
It will be decided by the free market, much like bitcoin's difficulty is decided by the free market.

ONLY a maximum number of DMs must be defined.

Now let me ask you, since you say only the richest SPR holders will be able to afford DMs:

Who makes it EASIER to run a DM/MN?

Spreadcoin with a dynamic Deposit Requirement starting at 1 SPR, (letting the free market decide)
or Darkcoin who has a FIX Deposit Requirement of 1000 DRK? (Cutting out 99% of all investors from the start!!!)

 

Wrong.

Here's the explanation why:

With darkcoin, the biggest holders get to monopolize the MN market very easily. Nobody can challenge them. Who already has MN can very easily create MORE MNs. The earnings of their already existing MNs help them buy the next MNs, etc...

But with spreadcoin, new investors can simply look up how much SPR the weakest DM has, and simply invest 1 SPR more to shut the weakest one down, and become the new weakest link.
(but this new weakest link is now 1 SPR stronger!)

It is brilliant that such a thing is made possible with spreadcoin. Because what just happened:
The new guy increased the sum of all money in all DMs by 1 SPR. So this creates a constant tendency to increase the cost of deposit for a DM, which in turn makes the amount of DMs decrease but only temporarily, because newcomers are waiting at the door, ready to enter..., so there is is a constant TURNOVER (because not every DM owner will want to keep up with the constant deposit increase)

It is horrific that darkcoin does NOT allow newcomers to enter the market AND DRIVE THE DEPOSIT PRICE UP, because that's the only thing that truly DISCOURAGES THE HORDING of DM/MN. (in effect kicking lazy DM/MN owners out of the game)

This is so brilliant, I am going to create a few animations soon to show what will potentially happen, and what the different scenarios are.

There is another consequence which shows the brilliance of DM (decentralized masternodes):

Since DMs with different amounts of SPR deposited STILL earn the same amount of SPR, a very competition encouraging effect emerges:

Suppose I own 10k SPR.
I now have two options:

1) Either I create 1 DM only and put all my 10k SPR in it, making it a STRONG DM, a practically indestructible DM. Nobody can challenge it. Not even in the year 2106.

2) or I can create 10 DMs with only 1000 SPR each, making them WEAK DMs, but since every DM earns the same amount of SPR I will be possibly earning 10 Times the amount of SPR compared to the strong DM I could have installed instead.

BUT HERE'S THE CATCH:
Those WEAK DMs run the constant risk of being shut down by someone else who is happy to invest just 1 SPR more than you.

HAHA, this is sooo brilliant.

Everybody:

YES, WEAK DMs (backed by little SPR) can be shut down any moment, but you have the incentive of running MANY OF THEM, because you can potentially earn MORE SPR than a strong DM, and be it only temporarily.

This is brilliance in the making.  

DM - Decentralized Masternodes (spreadcoin)
MN - MasterNodes (darkcoin)

We have to use different names, we can't just call them both masternodes or it will cause confusion.

The next question regarding DM has to be: will a DM with more SPR in it earn MORE SPR than a DM with fewer SPR?

To stay on the decentralized I would have to assume: NO!

It can't be that way, since it would destroy the competition principle and more or less go back to how darkcoin handles it.
DM owners will just constantly put their earnings back into their DM, earning more and more all the time, until they have a quasi monopoly over everything.

Therefor: a DM with 1000 SPR will earn exactly as much SPR as a DM with 10k SPR.

Also, there is a fascinating possibility.

One generous guy could grab 100k SPR and put them in his DM.

Now he can himself "master of the universe" if he wants.

AND: all the other 999 DMs below him have a much easier job to keep their DM (using the formula I gave before), since the generous guy took all those coins off the market and basically reduced the amount of available coins for everybody else, ergo making it easier for them to stay on the safe side.

BUT: ofcourse that means that the 999 DMs are at the mercy of the generous guy, who one day could simply decide: Meh, fu** that shit, I am going to take 90k SPR out of the DM, and have an endless party with bikini girls on some private island.



There is no thing for sure in the DM world, people will not be able to relax and chill, they will have to constantly WATCH THEIR BACK!

I think there is a formula for how much SPR your DM has got to have to be on the safe side of things.

You take the amount of available coins, say 1.5 million SPR.
Then you take the amount of maximum DM possible, let's make that 1000 DM for now.

If you now have 1500 SPR in your DM, there is NO way whatsoever that anyone can throw you out of the game, right?

Since it would mean that all the other 999 DM owners would need to have atleast 1500 + 1 SPR in their masternode,
which is MORE than the available amount of coins at that moment.

So the formula is simple:

You want to hold on to your DM?

Then the amount of SPR in your DM should be (All Available SPR) / (Max DM count) .

Ofcourse you have to up that constantly, since the amount of All Available SPR increases over time, but since it increases with the same tempo we know from BTC, that's not THAT fast.

Sure it is fast in the first few years, but after that, after we have entered a coin supply of 10 Million SPR, and an active flurishing SPR economy, there is no way someone is going to be able to take your DM away when you have 10k SPR in it, not even in the year 2106.

That's the point, it is good that people can lose their decentralized masternode.
It keeps them alert.
It keeps them upping their game, not just stand there like some entitled people, expecting rewards and honours.
NO, they have to constantly prove that they EARN IT from now on.

Decentralized masternodes introduce free market competition.

I say let DM have no minimum SPR requirement whatsoever. Let people install a DM for even 1 SPR, who cares.
The free market mechanism will simply shut them off in no time, that's the brilliance of it.

A maximum SPR requirement is ALSO not necessary, since the maximum DM count will probably be in the thousands, and we ONLY have a maximum amount of coins of 20 Million.
This means that with 1000 DMs we can't have more than 20k SPR per DM anyway, even if all available coins were locked in DMs, which ofcourse will never happen anyway.

Before making his final decision?

But Mr.Spread has already made his final decision when he started this project: Decentralization and decentralization ONLY.

Masternodes will only be implemented if they can be made into truly decentralized masternodes, there is NO compromise possible whatsoever. No tradeoffs of ANY kind.

Everything I have seen Mr.Spread do is pointing towards more decentralization (and consequently more competition).

Therefor you will not see Mr.Spread release "closed source code" EVER,
you will not see him implement enforcement switches only he has the keys to,
you will not see him talk about the need for a Spread Foundation etc.

He will always stay close to satoshis principles, like he is his disciple or something.

One thing I learned after reading this whole thread is: Mr. Spread is a principled guy.

you counting the premined and non-mineable?
Cause I don't, never have, never will.

Decentralization, remember?

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/views/filter-non-mineable-and-premined/

#35 on http://coinmarketcap.com 

Close!
Conjoined twin sperm. Before they separate and spread!  

This deserves a cartoon gif. One moment please.

Are we ATH yet?