Can I contribute here? I've always been a fan of bumping the thread  Please do! I am jumping back and forth between the forums anyway. PS Bumping this thread will soon have to stop once the new thread arrives. |
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DevsGeorgem gjhiggins elbandi Gladimor ( TBC) A-Russo MrSpread (MIA) Technical & Occasionale1ghtSpace chrysophylax Chup thelonecrouton Support and project development contributorsMinerpage njs811 defunctec Coins101 AnotherNode MyFarm (MIA) Let me know if you want to be added, removed, re-allocated from the above. Others: Private pools / miningetc.... tl;dr Spread to the moon ($10m)  Sorry guys I have been away a few days with family... so I missed all the good stuff here. Awesome work everybody. I like how it all comes together... Please join me in the discussion about DRAFT for new ANN thread / Websitehttp://spreadcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557.0 |
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-snip-
All the ideas for servicenodes and commercial exploitation are really fantastic. The network as an open decentralized app store is brilliant and something that cant be easily replicated by scam devs.
 To further define servicenodes: There will be two kinds of apps: 1) apps that require the servicenode network for the app to function. (distributed algorithms) 2) apps that are simply shared/sold/distributed by the servicenode network and that are being installed and run on the wallet-side only. (or maybe even as standalone programs for desktop/android etc...) In this case the servicenodes merely act as app stores as we know them from google play and itunes etc... We can even use the servicenode network to distribute the most recent wallets, and maybe even some official websites (in-wallet browser?) |
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That's a fair point.
When I was reading through the detail of the bitlicences last year it struck me that the regulators were trying to create new rules when the old rules still worked.
The UK approach to regulating crypto is currently on the basis that people are still responsible under existing laws regardless of what new technology is being adopted.
If I subscribe to a porn site (I don't, btw) the site is still responsible for providing the service. If I have a problem, I can still send them an email and complain.
If a customer is not happy, they still have the right to complain to the service provider. With the escrow model and a reputation system the subscription model could work better than existing options?
My fear is not that the users and service provides will not learn how to interact in a beneficial way towards each other... this will happen one way or the other, both with the help of reputation systems and the free market competition that will allow good actors to take away the customerbase from the bad actors. My problem is that some customers could use law to make service providers liable for all kinds of shit, all in the name of "customer protection". Maybe we need to think about T&Cs - "It is your responsibility to comply with all local laws"
Absolutely, once servicenodes are active we are going to need a lot of disclaimers and agreements. |
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The killer app - but unfortunately have no idea how to implement a subscription model - would be SpreadTor. Tor service offered by nodes, man that is a killer app
.....a subscription model..... I think your idea of being able to have a subscription model regardless of what service is provided is actually pretty damn awesome. I am not sure about the legal obligations (depends which country) someone has when offering payed services and/or subscriptions to a customerbase. In some juristictions you (as a service provider) have to pay a customer his money back when he is not happy with your service. It's a fact that many countries have insanely strict customer protection laws, and there will be customers who will abuse the system to their favour. I am not sure what cryptocurrencies can do to circumvent this. PS: wow, since when does BTC allow you to change your avatar again? |
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So if someone asks:
"What is a servicenode?"
What would be the most up-to-date answer to that?
I am still struggling to find a good definition.
Like an Apple App store or Google Play store, but anyone can run their own App store But then this would imply that each app store sits on a single server. That would not be very good from a decentralization standpoint. I'd rather say that the whole network is a single open app store, no need to fragment it. The fragmentation happens on the app level, not the store level. Also, servicenodes will need to attract and support each others apps, so running your own unique app store is probably not a very inclusive thing, but rather exclusive towards other servicenodes. hm.... |
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So if someone asks:
"What is a servicenode?"
What would be the most up-to-date answer to that?
I am still struggling to find a good definition.
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Actually, if you are going to enable porn, ....
The user should decide for himself if he wants to run in NSFW mode or not. But then again, the user himself shouldn't be surprised about the results that a search query for "deepthroat milf" will spit out. So in a way all the NSFW policies of for example tumblr are a joke, because it requires all people to participate and behave, but ofcourse you will always find a guy who tags an insanely NSFW pic with "flowers, summer, sunshine". Therefor an algorithmic solution will be lightyears more advanced than anything that requires contentproviders to do a good enough tagging job. |
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People aren't going to have nodes where they pay to stream video for free, are they?
If they do, reputation system gets them kicked off the network. Two tiers of reputation system, one for having a compliant node and second other nodes flagging inappropriate content.
Actually, if you are going to enable porn, then I wouldn't mind seeing porn stars owning nodes and getting gambling firms to sponsor them. We could then go to the annual ServiceNode Porn Awards, paid for by PornPoker.me
Absolutely, no problem with porn here, in the contrary. I personally don't even have a problem with any digital file (may it contain childporn or copyrighted material)... because I dont think that owning a file makes you a criminal. What is truly criminal is the creation of such despicable material like childporn. Not the possession. That's how it would be handled in a truly free world. But unfortunately we live in a world where government agencies are working hard to make all our liberties and privacy dissappear so that we can all feel save and secure, while the opposite is going to happen. (for example we do have today the insane possibility that someone can simply plant some childporn on your computer and frame you as a criminal. Because simple possession makes you a criminal.) |
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ServiceNodes offer a way to create value through decentralised applications.
The big gorilla in the room is, how will servicenodes handle illicit / illegal material? Suppose we have a decentralized app running on 2000 servicenodes that serves as a video-sharing alternative to youtube, what if one of the users (or servicenode owner) decides to share some childporn? If the service is truly decentralized then this illegal material will spread over most (or all) of the servicenodes probably without the servicenode owners even knowing that they have (fragmented or complete) childporn on their server. So how does the community (users and/or servicenode owners) make it so that this illicit video is deleted as fast as possible network-wide, or can't even be uploaded in the first place? A few options: a) simple flagging mechanism (if enough users flag the publicly findable material it will be erased automatically by the system) b) let the poor servicenode owner police every single upload and decide everytime if the material is acceptable or not. c) create some form of sophisticated porn recognition algorithms that are able to recognize both nudity/sex and the age of participants Hm, let's look at those options a little closer: a) can obviously be abused, because how do we even know if a single user is really a single human being, and not just a bunch of bots. Also, since the material is available for some period of time this will unleash the expected shit storm coming from governments etc... b) would be hell on earth for servicenode owners and nobody would want to run such a dangerous filesharing app anyway c) seems like the only viable solution, but is also outside of the technological possibilities of today... or is it? -------------- Another similar problem is ofcourse copyrighted material. And it would require a similar solution. I think a simple flagging system would work. Once you reach a certain percentage of downvotes then the video is automatically removed. If YouTube did that it would clear up tons of space on their servers. It would certainly be fun to implement and test such a system, and it wouldn't be that hard. Maybe even combine it with some kind of reputation system, that gives users with high reputation more "gravitas" when they decide to flag something. But I doubt that this will be enough to handle criminal outliers... BTW: All those decentralized apps should work with a network wide user system. Users should be invited (or even required) to own a wallet and SPR address so that they can upload/view and comment whatever is served by servicenodes WITHIN THE WALLET. The user account can be reused for all services / apps that will ever come out. |
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ServiceNodes offer a way to create value through decentralised applications.
The big gorilla in the room is, how will servicenodes handle illicit / illegal material? Suppose we have a decentralized app running on 2000 servicenodes that serves as a video-sharing alternative to youtube, what if one of the users (or servicenode owner) decides to share some childporn? If the service is truly decentralized then this illegal material will spread over most (or all) of the servicenodes probably without the servicenode owners even knowing that they have (fragmented or complete) childporn on their server. So how does the community (users and/or servicenode owners) make it so that this illicit video is deleted as fast as possible network-wide, or can't even be uploaded in the first place? A few options: a) simple flagging mechanism (if enough users flag the publicly findable material it will be erased automatically by the system) b) let the poor servicenode owner police every single upload and decide everytime if the material is acceptable or not. c) create some form of sophisticated porn recognition algorithms that are able to recognize both nudity/sex and the age of participants Hm, let's look at those options a little closer: a) can obviously be abused, because how do we even know if a single user is really a single human being, and not just a bunch of bots. Also, since the material is available for some period of time this will unleash the expected shit storm coming from governments etc... b) would be hell on earth for servicenode owners and nobody would want to run such a dangerous filesharing app anyway c) seems like the only viable solution, but is also outside of the technological possibilities of today... or is it? -------------- Another similar problem is ofcourse copyrighted material. And it would require a similar solution. |
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+101 You posted, and the market moved up 75% The free market is such a jolly fellow!  btw can't send you any tips - your SPR addy in your sig is pointing to .net edit or the other devs Thanks for the hint. My signature is now feeling much better. |
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+101 You posted, and the market moved up 75% The free market is such a jolly fellow! |
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Any ETA on the new thread?
working on design and structure of both website and ann thread right now... I will keep you guys updated as often as possible. |
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A quick sneak peak of how the new website & Ann thread will look like, and what kind of design elements they will include:  I will use a lot of such animations to visualize every aspect of spreadcoin and its servicenodes. (they won't be GIFs when finalized but javascript driven realtime animations, but I will have to use GIFs for the ann thread here.) PS: those simulations are not very accurate and are only here for visualisation purposes. |
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I've now built and fully tested the new solar-to-hydrogen fuel cells capable of mining Spread with 6 rigs each with 4 x GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB PCI-E 3.0 HDMI OC (what we used for testing)  Next week we will begin mapping out a production line to offer these units to the public on a pre-order basis. You will only get the hydrogen battery packs, the hydrolysis reactor, cables and software to run the production management unit. Prices are expected to start at $4,000 plus shipping. Import duties are your responsibility. Orders are shipped according to your pre-order ticket number. Website going up on Monday. My set-up costs were just under $3,000 for the above configuration. To this we will add $1,000 for each unit for profit and overhead costs. The ROI on mining Spreadcoin, or any X11 algo (scrypt requires too much power draw for the hydrogen power units to replenish the batter packs fully within a 24 hour period) is about 14 months. When the price of SPR goes up, obviously the ROI will drop. The batter packs also mean that mining can continue overnight when there is little sunshine. So here we offer you, basically free mining, forever. This is ridiculously AWESOME! Looking forward to your website! |
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I advocate for tying the max amount of MNs to the coinsupply:
Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 2880.
A while ago I remember there being a discussion about limiting one MN to one IP (or server)... what's the latest on that? You can't limit one SN to one IP. Nobody can know if your server is really running on one IP as a single instance or running as one of hundred virtual machines in a cloud. Also, your SN will never be required to be visible thru an IP, the SNs IP is not important since it's not broadcast anyway. With that in mind, coming back to your question: to prevent people from running multiple SNs (servicenodes) on a server, you will need to run services (on those servicenodes) that have a high load on the server CPU / RAM / HDisk... this will make running multiple SNs on a server problematic, and encourage the spreading of SNs over multiple Servers (and be it only virtual ones) For this to work we will need a sophisticated valuation system that gives the best servers the best score, and the worst servers the worst score. That's the tricky part. Or you could avoid all this pointless and impractical nonsense and just have a fixed collateral cost, and let market forces sort the numbers out. Spread MNs would be up and running on mainnet with IX far faster. "Pointless and impractical nonsense" is not a valid counterargument. If you need fixed collateral cost go to Darkcoin/Dash/whatever if will be called tomorrow. Spreadcoin will go its unique way, following the principles of true decentralization, enabling competition and easy entry for everybody. Stay tuned. |
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I particularly like Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 2880.
Because it will allow for only a very limited amount of MN at the moment: around 650... (this will help drive the price of SPR up, now that it is young)
and it will grow to a healthy 1800 when we are as old as darkcoin... (1 Year)
and it will grow to a perfect 5000 MNs when we are as old as bitcoin... (6 years)
And when we reach the 21 Million max coinsupply in a 100 years we will have reached the maximum possible amount of 7292 MNs.
I concur. I am curious if a consensus decision has been reached among developers if Servicenodes should go live before there is a service in place that they are actively supporting, or your opinion on the matter? live on testnet? Yes. But we can't have "empty" servicenodes enter main net, because for the servicenodes to receive SPR they will need to constantly pass a voting /evaluation process, or they will be dropped. (evaluating if a servicenode is behaving correctly and doing a good job or not) And if there is no service then there is nothing to base the voting /evaluation on. |
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I advocate for tying the max amount of MNs to the coinsupply:
Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 2880.
A while ago I remember there being a discussion about limiting one MN to one IP (or server)... what's the latest on that? You can't limit one SN to one IP. Nobody can know if your server is really running on one IP as a single instance or running as one of hundred virtual machines in a cloud. Also, your SN will never be required to be visible thru an IP, the SNs IP is not important since it's not broadcast anyway. With that in mind, coming back to your question: to prevent people from running multiple SNs (servicenodes) on a server, you will need to run services (on those servicenodes) that have a high load on the server CPU / RAM / HDisk... this will make running multiple SNs on a server problematic, and encourage the spreading of SNs over multiple Servers (and be it only virtual ones) For this to work we will need a sophisticated valuation system that gives the best servers the best score, and the worst servers the worst score. That's the tricky part. |
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