Our updated estimate is that the rigs will begin shipping in mid-November. That's the best case scenario. We have yet to see a single pic of anything. Anything. And they should have shipped this week. I won't let this thing "pass", jesus. |
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Everything looks really easy in my mind:
Option A): they don't care about their customers
---- Conclusion: legal battle. No problem.
Option B): they do care about their customers
---- Conclusion: either legal battle or more warranties.
Option C): they are trying to be silent and to take time, to screw option A and B.
---- Conclusion: act now.
I don't know about you, but i don't want to lose time.
And i don't want infinite number of discussions, either. I want actions.
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What a lot of bs the post above mine is.
MPP will not save anyones' ass, and i've ordered with that plan already annunced, so don't say that it's a gift to the poor batch 1 customers.
I, batch 1 customer, will lose 75%.
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Translated, they can't ask for a refund because it's "completed". Point #1: their customers can always refuse the shipment and get a complete refund. Point #2: this means that HashFast has no will to cooperate, they won't help their first batch customers that will lose 75% of their investment. Conclusion: They have given me the reason to move on on a legal battle. If you are an HashFast batch 1 customer, please join me. If you know a laywer with btc expertise in CA, please tell me. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316945.0 |
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Anyway since that everything else in in order to ship tomorrow i would like some pics of the sierra case with the PSU on the wrong side. Because it exists, right?
Poor me...
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Shipping delayed to Mid November (??) as per hashfast announcement.
I will accept lower offers, pm me.
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Of course Hashfast doesn't HAVE to do any of this they can just stick to the terms of service but I am pretty sure they are smart enough to know that 2014 sales depend heavily on how they "make it right" for batch 1 and 2 customers. KNC for example despite some missteps probably will have no issue lining up batch 3, 4, 5, 20 sales in 2014.
Or just create a new vanilla company, call that (HashCrap)^-1 and repeat from the beginning. (the minus one is on trust). |
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I've already asked that, on several times, and they always replied no. The only "maybe" i got was when i met John in person at the conference, but even if i tried, he never followed me up on that.
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didn't they employ you? At one time
You are confusing me with someone else. |
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I spoke to a lawyer, showed him the terms of sale and here is what he said:
- Since you had to agree to the terms by checking a box when you purchased they are enforceable.
- Section 3a is the important part. It says:
"(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014."
The interesting part is it does NOT say that you can not cancel an order before Dec 31st! It just says if HF does not deliver by then your remedy in that situation is cancellation and a refund. It does not say anything about the buyer requesting a cancellation BEFORE then!
- Later on in section 3f it says: "No order or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’ prior written consent except for cancellations permitted under this Section 3." This may be taken to mean "no cancellations" but it is unclear as it is buried in the section regarding a customer refusing delivery or contesting a shipment.
- The Dec 31 deadline contradicts HashFast's advertising material, direct e-mails, and blog posts which repeatedly announced a Oct 20-30 ship date.
- In the event of any ambiguity regarding the expected ship date, the legal system must allow cancellation of the order. From the lawyer: "There is a concept of law wherein if someone provides a contract that has an ambiguous term then that term is construed against the entity providing the contract." In the lawyers opinion, since the purchase agreement, namely section 3a, is ambiguous, then the courts should be find in favor of the customer and allow cancellations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316945.new#new^ do we need my money after this post? |
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I spoke to a lawyer, showed him the terms of sale and here is what he said:
- Since you had to agree to the terms by checking a box when you purchased they are enforceable.
- Section 3a is the important part. It says:
"(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014."
The interesting part is it does NOT say that you can not cancel an order before Dec 31st! It just says if HF does not deliver by then your remedy in that situation is cancellation and a refund. It does not say anything about the buyer requesting a cancellation BEFORE then!
- Later on in section 3f it says: "No order or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’ prior written consent except for cancellations permitted under this Section 3." This may be taken to mean "no cancellations" but it is unclear as it is buried in the section regarding a customer refusing delivery or contesting a shipment.
- The Dec 31 deadline contradicts HashFast's advertising material, direct e-mails, and blog posts which repeatedly announced a Oct 20-30 ship date.
- In the event of any ambiguity regarding the expected ship date, the legal system must allow cancellation of the order. From the lawyer: "There is a concept of law wherein if someone provides a contract that has an ambiguous term then that term is construed against the entity providing the contract." In the lawyers opinion, since the purchase agreement, namely section 3a, is ambiguous, then the courts should be find in favor of the customer and allow cancellations.
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tldr: HashFast, 3 days after claiming that everything is on track, says that they will be at least 3 weeks late. 3 weeks later means that people like me, who bought batch 1 miners, will never see a ROI greater than (minus) 50%.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
This found is for the only purpose of *investigating the possibilities* (as in, asking a lawyer to give us a reliable review) of our situation.
Address: 1PrdHS7HQjhZpEnkWiGx15Pr1J3C6B4NfR
I will send there 5 btc of my money. Please contribute however you can. I think that we should be able to have a contact with a laywer by friday.
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Nothing that will make you roi.
Full point.
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No, I don't think so either. But additional hashing power or modification to the MPP is more likely and would be just as good. Once their chips are designed and working, silicon is cheap for them.
A significative change to the MPP is the only thing i see them doing. |
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I actually don't want to cancel my order. I just want a rebate for the 2+ week delay, whether it be in btc, cash, or additional mining hardware that will at least give me the chance of making ROI on my order. The problem is that this 2+ week delay will be like 50%+ of the btc we will ever earn. So i don't think they will be willed to offer a "rebate" for that. |
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Anyway, is there a follow up to this?
Yes, a question mark. I guess he is reading the thread. You should have seen John vs Josh at the bitcoin conference@Amsterdam a few weeks ago. |
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You mean, they underestimate the power of angry customers that have paid full up front in a irreversible currency while agreeing to ToS that state they will receive their October order no later than December 31st? I wish you luck. Precisely. We can get a BTC refund anytime before the delivery date, we can refuse to accept the shipment, etc. With the state closing down silk road, they can't ignore btc anymore and call it play money. So, since that they are a company, the have to complain with laws. Puppet, i will start ignoring you from now on (i rarely ignore people, but you are deviating this conversation). |
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I expressed that I don't just want them to get my back, but every one in Batch 1, and every one of their customers for that matter. I suggest everyone calls and demand compensation.
I have josh (the sales guy) trolling me on Skype. He keeps repeating that since that the btc exchange rate is skyrocketing, i should't care about the btc i will lose. He didn't seem willed to help in anyway. However they are underestimating the power of angry and organised customers. |
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What makes you think that? If one BJ doesnt make a profit, 200 wont either.
200 bj are not bough at the price and with the same warranties of 1. Thats sounds like nonsense to me. Why would btc exchange rate have anything to do with it?
If the btc price is skyrocketing, your customer are not losing usd, only btc. It's what BFL did. |
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