inflation is never good and its own number is highly manipulated

did you know they say "the food group of CPI is 3%"

what is not realised is certain food is used as an index
and some retailers keep those particular items low. while raising the rest

EG
01.1.1 Bread and cereals
01.1.2 Meat
01.1.3 Fish
01.1.4 Milk, cheese and eggs
01.1.5 Oils and fats
01.1.6 Fruit
01.1.7 Vegetables including potatoes and tubers
01.1.8 Sugar, jam, syrups, chocolate and confectionery
01.1.9 Food products [n.e.c.]

by keeping retailer own brand bread low
certain meats low
certain brands of milk low
certain fruits low

they can raise the rest higher

for instance
own brand baked beans stays (in UK) at £0.25/can
but branded heinz tomato soup, spaghetti increase by 50% £1.50 a can compared to £1 last year

cherry tomatos stay at $0.80
but fresh beef tomatos go up by 50%

this way by showing some items only move by 10% and other items by 0. they can fake a 3% inflation on food. even though an average persons grocery receipt has grown by 25-30%

yet their salary/wage has not increased by 20%-30%
even if inflation pretend food has only increased by 3%

dont be shocked
when you start life using the bank of mom&dad, they can buy access and also they can buy ghost writers to write out assignments for SBF

meaning he doesnt need to learn. he just needs to pay the assignment writer with parents money

(we see CSW do the same thing. CSW is accumulating more degree's per year than humanly possible.. obviously he has other people doing his homework)

he didnt buy his degree... his parents did

the dumbest things he ever bought. were any gifts or presents for his ex girlfriend and all the funds he gave her..
.. because she has been in NYC for the last week singing like a freebird giving evidence against SBF

and in that regard, here is another song
money cant buy me love

---

liquidators dont mind buying dying companies
its called "asset raiding"

the goal is this:
find a company that has coins/assets but they separately have fiat debt that out paces the assets. where by they cannot cover the debt

EG $500m good assets. $1bill fiat debt = minus $500m(unrecoverable debt)

a liquidator will take on the business. take out the good assets. leaving the dying brand with even larger debt ($500m unrecoverable->$1b unrecoverable)
also pass on the liquidators own bad debt into the dying company.. to clean out the main companies own obligations

and as a final stage.. just let the dying brand die in bankruptcy blackhole

issue is SBF didnt finalise the last stage in the dying businesses he did previously buy

oh..
lets see blackhats cries

so.. 33 hours ago doomad bumped this topic back to life
he wanted to mention something about a debate he triggered in another topic

so lets deal with certain subjects..
who mentioned the words segwit. and uasf first in this recent debate revival.... hmmm.. oooo it was doomad.

who bumped this topic that was dead for 10 months.. oooo it was doomad

who cant back up their narrative with any blockdata, code or bips.. oooo doomad

---

the reason i bite and respond to his and your pokes. is because unless people learn from the past and actually learn what actually happened in the past to ensure things dont easily happen like it again.. they end up happening again.. even more easily.
which is not good risk awareness to play dumb and ignorant and blind

and definitely not a good plan to be a ass kisser that lets devs make backdoors into feature inclusion without a good true consensus vote to fairly decided if it should activate or not.. is another risk

but hey. you lot dont care about bitcoin at all .. that much is obvious

---

you girls are the cry babies

heres another reason why you lot should cry

you think LN is the best, the solution, the popular network, the (pfft) feature that you brand as bitcoin

well babies.
did you realise that taproot has managed to hoard more coins into their feature in less than a year by the scale of 4x, compared to what you babies have managed in 5 years

yep using taproot has manage to grab 20k coins in a year.
yet your prefered feature(different network, but you pretend is just a feature) of LN only manage an average of 5k coin (~1k a year on LN)

did you also know that there are 180,000 WBTC and it is only 3 years 11 months old
compared to the 5k you lot celebrate in 5 and a half years

oh and remember how you guys were celebrating that bitfinex had over 1k of LN liquidity(20%)

well bitfinex has over 2k of wbtc

i only mention btc as an example of a other network unit pretending to be bitcoin

and yet after 5 years of promoting LN you have not realised its broke, flawed and buggy. you are still using the outdated sales pitches of 5 years ago

seems other people would rather lock funds into taproot rather than LN
would rather sell bitcoin and buy ethereum and then convert that to wbtc, rather than use LN

---

oh and i am not the one unsure about things. i am clear and my narrative has not changed
my narrative is backed up by blockdata, code and bips straight from sources wrote by developers

unlike your narratives which yet again you fail to respond with any evidence to back up your narrative. all you can do it cry and moan and insult that you dont understand english and blame it on the englishman. rather than realise that you are greek, where english is YOUR weakness

but i do laugh how you lot, do all the insulting but then cry when i insult back. you lot are not victims. so grow up. learn something . do some research and stop being manipulative

if you are daily price watching, you are not a holder
you are an exiter, because you are looking for the right price to exit

holders dont watch the price daily because they are not going to sell today so no need to know todays price

some are day traders, but they look at the price for day trading,
not hoard investing

previous years i day traded. not to value my hoard, but just to see the 1% price wiggles to get 1% a day profit to add to my hoard

tech didnt lose $7.5trill

tech was $7.5 of pumped bubble fake valuations
companies now sit at a better value to real asset hoards

in short there is no reserve of $7.5 trill hoard somewhere that got burned
it was just a market database entry that got a minus included on its monthly statement instead of a +

anything and everything can be a currency. including sexual favours in exchange for a gucci purse between you and your spouse
or beer between buddies helping to fix a car engine in their front yard

however common currency is deemed "money"
the stuff you can buy common goods with

so bitcoin is currency and an investment. but the actual question is how to make bitcoin common money
..
as for the store of value and money questions

ignoring the centralised speculative market PRICE. and instead actually measure value based on actual statistics and data from the bitcoin network and real world costs will show true value which is more stable than market volatility premium.

do not confuse the market price(premium) with bitcoins store of value

if we invent new value displays based on the VALUE not a market.
then people can see the base VALUE and then buy goods and services based on the more stable and deflationary VALUE .. and not the volatile central exchange market premium

it looks like we need to show doomad a pretty picture
AGAIN

the blue line of NYA (blackmail and threat of block rejections). caused the sudden diagonal red line of segwit which caused the activation

the diagonal red line event was the reject of non signalling blocks where every new block from that trigger point late july was then signalling segwit which diluted the count of previous non signals ... hence the line went STRAIGHT(no wiggle) diagonally to 100% where 100% is not natural


by the way. those tactics that were used were not described by me as SOFT. becasue they actually were HARD but FALSLY described as soft by other people.
which even you want to call it soft because of your ignorance of what actually happened

also the UASF was a different proposal promoted by samson mow not the same as the lukejr and shoulinfry stuff which the core devs and blockstream NYA group utilised

so dont try confusing people

what you are missing in your ignorance is that the 2x part of NYA was never a coded thing or a bip. it was the empty promise of "sometime later"
and its the 2x that failed. not the blackmail of block rejections first part of the NYA which was actually pushed


if you cannot tell the difference between the code and bips.. vs whats is promoted and said in a blog. then you again are not realising the actual stuff that actually happened

it seems apparent now your source of information has fooled you.

but if you want to continue pretending you know better..
BACK IT UP WITH ACTUAL DATA

show me some actual lines of code, some bips, some block data. .. something

.. im still waiting

all you can produce is your mindset of stuff you read on some blog post or tweet or some chat room somewhere

then we both agree msats are not bitcoin

however here is the thing
imagine your broker trade desk screen showed you had 500,000microcents
internally you think your broker owes you 500cents (5 euros)

now what if i told you that the rules of your broker software(he asked you to download) meant that he can manipulate your user agreement of the 1:1000 conversion rate.

where by he can get the software to sign a 1:10,000,000
meaning your 500,000microcents trade desk screen balance.. is actually being signed into withdraw request order. of not 5 euros.. but not even 1 cent.. but instead 0.05

yep be aware that LN has no network consensus, no network audit of payments or channel law.
no mechanism to prevent changes to pegs. thus you can think your IOU is 5 euros as displayed on trading desk GUI. but at withdrawal of the settlement broadcast. you only get euro0.0005

yep the pegging mechanism between the onion payment unit vs commitment unit. is not a guaranteed secure rate

i have coins from as far back as 2012. so i have no fear or worry at all

i did also buy about $5k worth(0.16btc) when the price was $30k this year, i have no regrets on that deal either

i didnt need to buy more, i have hoards. this little 0.16 does not impact the hoards. so its just lays there as dust compared to lumps when comparing the wallets

but compared to the 2021 peak $70k.. $30k price was a good deal. and dont regret it even now

the trick is PATIENCE, and not investing amounts which you fear losing.
dont invest more then you can risk/afford
 
$5k is just a years worth of food waste toilet flushes to me,
it would have been lost if not invested anyways(i would have spent it on junk food/luxury food that just gets digested and plops out in a toilet)

funy part is.. this question i will ask you:
"and where is everyone reading this volatile price?"... ooooo right centralised middlemen exchanges

i personaly do not value my coin based on market rate. i am not checking market rates..

my view of bitcoin VALUE is by calculating the most cheapest bitcoin acquisition method on the planet(the lowest amount everyone on the planet refuses to sell below because everones cost are higher than this cheapest rate)

and so avoiding market speculation of random judgements of price premium viable to them.. i look at the most efficient mining cost.

based on bitcoin network data.. not market data

this years is $15k.. which is why there is so much support to not sell below $15k.. because of the underlying value (off market)


there are premiums EG hawaii is the most expensive place to mine. which as a TOP window market of $75k in 2021 and $90k this year

there is a reason why people wont sell below $15k. and there are reasons why SOME people would buy upto $70k last year.

but thats market speculation.. not value

if your looking at market price you are looking at middlemen services and centralised services.. you are not looking at the actual costs of bitcoin at the bitcoin network rate

ignoring the service advert

lets delve into the "volatility" aspect

back in 2010 when value discovery first happened

many smart people were actually calculating their computer hardware cost divided (by 4 year upgrade timeframe) to an hourly rate
and their electric per hour (about 0.02 cost per hours)

and worked out that if they were mining 1 block every 10 hours because at that time there were a few dozen people mining (5btc every hour)

so they calculated one coin was about $0.004 cost(laszlo pizza 10k coin for $40 of pizza)
which was their first value discovery rate to trade in mid 2010
this was fair value
(right now this year fair value of efficient mining is about $15k/btc)

however
then in late 2010 exchanges made their presence. where above the value (value=no one wanted to sell below min cost). people were speculating a higher premium they were willing to buy above value for the convenience of getting coin without having to mine

this is where market prices increased above value and found premiums of like $32 in 2011, way way above the underlying value

much like 2021s underlying value was ~$10k but the market speculative premium went up to $70k

the whole "investment" scheme is very much MARKET(CEX(central exchange)) driven of speculating above the underlying value

volatility of bitcoins MARKET is not due to bitcoins value. but MARKET speculation

the underlying value is smoother and moves at a more sustainable rate below the market premiums

ok lets run a non scam scenario of cloud mining..
but include some factual economics to show some flaws even in a legit cloud mining system

usually industrial size asic farms have efficient mining costs.
take this year. its about $15k a coin mining cost(hardware+electric) in the most cost efficient farms of wholesale bought asics and lowest electric regions

however users living in say hawaii if they were to personally mine on their residential rate would have a $90k per coin cost to mine
so they dont want to locally mine from home

they are then advertised into 'if you pay us $24k" we will get you 1btc in the summer (it sounds like a good deal compared to self mining at home in hawaii, right)

the cloud mining company mine for $15k and sell for $24k so its good business

however when the bitcoin price drops to $17k the cloud service can still sell coin for $2k profit to other people. but wants the customer of their cloud to continue to pay the agreed $24k/btc rate.

but the customer would be stupid to still be locked into a $24k contract for 1btc

altcoins(the place old gen hardware go to retire) buy the s9 at $100

thats 15thash at 1.4kwh

so lets assume 2020's s19 of 105thash for 3.25kwh
which is a 45thash per 1.4kwh

which is a 3x efficiency.
thus the resale value would be $300 IF s19 if it was 45exa
or more precisely $700 for like for like efficiency of 105thash

the most they will get back is $700, but this value is soon dropping due to new 2022 generation asics

industrial self-mining asic farms have pre-bought electric on 2 year contracts. meaning they have yet to be hit by any electric increases from a 2021 contract
though this will change in 2023

the main miners that got hit by electric are more of the small hobby miners that purchase by monthly residential electric bill

looking at the network hashrate i would say 200exa is industrial miners mining efficiently at a good rate unaffected yet by 2022 changes
where the rest of the 30exa-80exa is the hobby miners that come and go depending on speculative market and underlying bill cost changes

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/core-scientific-announces-comprehensive-restructuring-transaction-301708021.html


in short. they were not 100% inhouse mining.
sound like they were acting as a cloudminging scam where they hoped customers theat contracted into a monthly payment would continue to pay in a monthly fee even when customers were not getting out the quoted value at start of contract.
(no one is dumb to deposit 0.X and get 0.00X and still willingly pay 0.X)
or
the company were purchasing "cloudmining" from other people and those cloudminers didnt pay them the rewards

ha ha. everyone knows cloud mining is a scam

their smaller self mining structure has pre-paid electric contracts into 2023 so they can continue to self mine inhouse and are currently debt free not owing any bills.

as for blackhat running out of rebuttles so just goes grammar nazi

english is a beautiful language
there is no single way to speak

tom8o tom@o
phone, dog and bone

scone: s-con  sc-own, biscuit(american english)

if you go to glasgow, then liverpool, then manchester, then essex, then cornwall. you might notice the beauty of the language

this forum is not a oxford university for getting a degree in english

its a discussion forum where people have their own dialects.
and yes there are many versions of english outside of oxford

by the way americans call football. that game of holding a ball.. and call what brits call football soccer

yes we hate the football, tom8o diversity of the english language. but if you cannot accept diversity or atleast the diversity of language. thats on your narrow mindedness.

im not here to earn an oxford university degree.
this forum is not here to offer oxford degree's
this forum is open to diversity and open discussion

my english is understandable by those that are not narrow minded.
i was born british. as were my parents and their parents and theirs, for as far back as i have measured the 1700's

however angelo.. you are greek. so its you with the english deficit.

im here to discuss bitcoin. and i end up having to put up with narrow minded people like yourself that cannot understand the broad range and beauty of the english language
and i am 100% sure if i spoke cockney to you or mancunian you would collapse in tears thinking your translator is broke

---

you call yourself a bitcoiner?
A. you want people to stop doing transactions on bitcoin daily by advertising another network
B. you advertise fullnodes should not be full nodes by saying people should prun
C. more precisely you dont want a distributed ledger
D. you dont like the blockchain. specifically the taint proof of coin origins

you do not like much about bitcoin at all

---

first of all thank you for admitting one thing..
you admit the "few users" "some users" also known as the blockstream DCG group of the NYA economic nodes

however
you think when it comes to the hundreds of thousands of the wider community. you think they never had a vote(even before 2016).
 
again you also think democracy is about ability to fork
its not
democracy is about unity of the community. by majority vote
consensus/democracy is about coming to a majority elected policy which unites the masses, where if there is no clear majority the new policy does not activate.

that process was brutalised in 2016-17 by the ADMITTED changes proposed by luke Jr and shoulinfry

the devs admit it happened.. and its you guys that think you are defending and kissing devs ass by pretending it didnt happen

democracy is not where Jeremy Corbyn managed northern england and Boris Johnson managed southern england
democracy is not where kier starmer manages northern england and rishi manages southern england

there is no split up of england in true democracy
there is simply re-elections if no clear majority is found

---

and one last shut-down of another misconception you have
"bitcoin LN" brand stealing

lightning network is not reliant on bitcoin nor sole function for bitcoin and bitcoin alone

even J.Poone (DCG related)
who wrote the white paper on lightning said this
https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf

also when running a compiled LN wallet/node. you do not have to go back to base code and change parameters. to make it operate with other networks. its simply an input you enter into the compiled and running node/wallet. thus LN is not something thats hard coded for bitcoin/reliant on bitcoin

when you broadcast to settle..
i hope you atleast are not watching TXID of a broadcast with your node having RBF turned off.. where you only see a unconfirmed tx of "first seen"

your counter party may have RBF on and later sends a previous commitment with higher fee.
which pools accept as replacement of the one in your mempool.. thus your waiting weeks thinking your 'first-seen' is waiting/pending a confirm to settle
where as your counterparties other broadcast gets confirmed..

so i hope you lot atleast have RBF turned on to watch for double spends at unconfirmed relay and you lot are watching via UTXO of funding commit.. rather than TXID

the function of your micro eurocent has a different purpose to a metal eurocents you find in your jacket pocket

if that database of microeurocents has:
*some guarantee that your broker cant just do an FTX on your balance..
*recognised by your countries regulators that your deposits are insured
*no way for broker to get away with stealing your microeuro
*where all microeuros convert to euros no matter what situation occures

then YOU may presume the microeuro to be a euro.. (emphasis on YOU)

however much like:
#not-your-key-not-your-coin(counterparty refuse to sign multisig)
much like fractional reserving(thor turboing)
much like sidechain/subnetwork de-begging(change 1:1000 peg)

there are more flaws to your brokers system than an actual euro

LN msats have many many ways to break the peg. and also many ways your channel counter-part can attack your value and abuse the "trust" of the contract you have agreed on via funding tx signing it into their co-control
if you are not away or wish to be blind to the differences.. thats on YOU

your right

imagine there were 4 CEX
EU , UK ,NGN, KES

the most efficient method of swaps is

the image above is not LN. its just back office reserve swaps so fees are negligible if anything no matter the value. but emphasis this is not LN

however in LN at the most efficient swap, (i limited it to avoid hours of channel making doodles)

but this runs into issues

liquidity availabe if channels have already processed $x amount the night before

and also
not all channels will have equal balance. even if not used before

and also
not all channels have equal fee's

it requires several hops along a route which even in a 4 hop network is a 4x of fee per channel

ill leave you all to play out scenarios on that

(by the way most LN nodes dont have $2k channel balance)

oh last thing

many LIGHTNING devs are playing with a system of using $stable coins as the backed unit of mCENTS on LN thus no need for a fiat-btc-msat double conversion on the entry nor a msat-btc-fiat double conversion on the exit

they instead deposit fiat and use stable coin in LN