You think? Mercedes was the faster car, Hamilton was never under any threat throughout the whole race. Then there is a safety car. Obviously unexpected events like this can change things and advtange one driver more than another, but the issue here is them changing the rules in order to contrive a specific outcome. The officials have three choices really:

a) red flag it, send everyone back to the pits, everyone can change tyres if they like, or
b) continue behind safety car, and all lapped cars get to unlap themselves, or
c) continue behind safety car, no lapped cars get to unlap themselves.

That's it, that's the choices. Under option a) Lewis still has the advantage but has Max right behind him, both on new softs, under option b) there isn't time for everyone to unlap themselves, race finishes under safety car, Lewis wins, under option c) there isn't time for Max to overtake all the lapped cars, Lewis wins.

But instead, the FIA decide to ignore the rules, and let only the lapped cars between Max and Lewis overtake, so that Lewis and Max are together, and there is still time for a final lap race... but of course under those conditions, one driver on really old hard tyres, the other driver on clean softs... there is only ever one outcome.

Basically the FIA decided to ignoe the rules in order to give Max the title. I can't see how they can defend themselves really. But equally once the decision is made, I can't see how it can be reversed. Ludicrous, and the FIA have brought it on themselves. No wonder lawyers are involved.

So currently Max has the title, but it's tainted as everyone knows Lewis should have won it. If they reverse the decision (which I don't think they will), then people will think that Max had it taken away unfairly. Weirdly, after all the noise about Max bending the rules during this season, this time he is innocent and finds himself caught up in something that isn't his fault!

The FIA are already doing a great job of making themselves look bad, they can't really make it much worse. Honestly, the difficult positions they've put themselves in over and over this season, and then you thought finally there isn't going to be any dubious rulings here... and they do this! Fitting end to the season I suppose, but they need to show some consistency. There's no other way the decision here can look other than they made up some new rules in order to engineer a win for Max. Why do they put themselves in these positions? Farcical, I'm not surprised Mercedes are livid!

And yes, for the first time in a while, Max did nothing wrong, drove a great race in a car that was clearly second best. He's a superb driver, but whatever happens now the FIA have tainted this championship, and no-one will ever be viewed as a true and deserved winner.

The FIA can't change their decision, but neither can they justify it. I'm sure Verstappen will technically remain the champion, but this isn't a great look for the sport.

Apparently Mercedes have taken a barrister in to see the stewards too! I can see why, but it won't change the result. What are the FIA doing, why do they put themselves in these positions? Really crazy.

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

Let none overtake, Lewis wins because Max can't catch him.

Let them all overtake, not enough time, race finishes under safety car, Lewis wins.

Contrive a weird situation where you let a few preferred cars go through so you can get Max on new softs directly behind Lewis and enough time for one lap of "racing".. guaranteed Max win.

Basically the situation the officials contrived would always guarantee a Max win. No way in hell Lewis had a chance, and everyone knew it.

Are we talking about a population average, or an individual? And you need to decide whether you're talking about raw scores or adjusted scores.


From your link:

So the decline is seen in kids <=16yo, but there is an increase amongst other age groups? I don't think it's a particularly compelling argument, particularly when they have to go back 30 years to find a study that says what they want it to say.




My hypothesis is that someone who feels the need to use the pseudonym "Tyler Durden" might have an IQ that is somewhat lower than average, and is more concerned with superficial popular culture than facts.

Thanks. I still find the concept quite problematic. It's very heavily laden with meaning, yet at the same time secular glory is something that I find can be surprisingly elusive, and difficult to pin down. I don't think it's anything like recognition or renown, it's more triumphalist than that, and I think combative, too, but not necessarily in a military sense.

You may as well say "facts are nothing more than opinion", as that's how you tend to regard it when people post links to data, even if it's lots of data from multiple independent sources that all present the same picture. But I think your position - and that of most people on the anti-vax side - is faith-based rather than fact-based anyway... in which case, why are you even concerned about facts? You would never regard them as something that could challenge your beliefs.

It was a superb qualifying lap from Verstappen. He was aided a bit by that Perez slipstream, but apparently that only gained him about 0.2s, so he would have beaten Hamilton to pole quite comfortably anyway.
I don't know what's happening with the softs, with Perez doing it too, it's almost like Red Bull were always planning both of them to start on the softs to get an advantage off the line at the start of the race to try to gain control of position on the track, and then try to hold it as long as they can.

If Lewis can beat Max off the line, then it's definitely advantage Mercedes.
But if Max gets away quickest, which you would expect as he's on softs and on pole anyway, then maybe Perez comes into play, and they can use him to control when Hamilton has to pit. But you'd expect Hamilton to go longer than the other two anyway as he's on mediums. Maybe the plan is stop Perez early, run Max as long as possible so long as he can keep Lewis behind, so they are both slowing as Max's tyres wear down, and then they both come out behind Perez, who let's Max through but holds up Lewis? I don't know. There are a few options I suppose, and it all depends how the first couple of laps play out.

^{[CITATION NEEDED]} ... but when has that ever stopped you?

If average IQ has genuinely fallen - and I'm not agreeing that it has - then the most obvious explanation would probably be an increasing level of cognitive decline due to an aging population. Population age is generally reported as a median, which obviously doesn't reveal everything, but median age in the US has certainly been increasing over the last few decades.





Sheeple? Scamdemic? Tiny robot Bill Gateseseseseses being injected into your bloodstream? But wouldn't that last one increase intelligence? Bill Gates may be* the devil incarnate, but he's quite intelligent, right? You don't get to be a demonic overlord if you're stupid. I mean, surely you wouldn't dispute that there's a strong positive correlation between evil geniuses and architects of fiendish master plans?





* _{or may not be}

P2 happened later yesterday, results for the top drivers were:

1   Hamilton     1:23.691
2   Ocon           1:24.034
3   Bottas         1:24.083
4   Verstappen  1:24.332
5   Perez          1:24.400
6   Alonso        1:24.495

Always difficult to tell who is sand-bagging, who is running a high fuel load, etc... but it's noticeable that both Alpines are right up there, as Ocon was last time around.
Is there really the possibility that the Alpines could get in amongst Lewis and Max during qualifying?

I don't think it's a Mercedes upgrade, I think it's more that Red Bull were forced to ditch their illegal flexing wing for the later part of the season, which has dropped their performance. Mercedes have improved a bit, but Red Bull have dropped back. There is also Hamilton's new engine for Brazil, which obviously helped in Brazil and maybe a bit in Saudi. As for Abu Dhabi, we don't know how much sand-bagging is happening. Best thing in these situations is look at bookmakers odds, they generally have a very good understanding of what is most likely to happen.

Interesting question. I'm not going to google it, but this has to be someone who normally starts quite far back on the grid, but has acquired quite a lot of championship points. I'm going to go with Norris or maybe even Alonso, with Perez as a long shot because he always seems to start way back considering he's in a Red Bull. Actually, Ricciardo might be a possibility, too. But now I have mentioned almost half the grid!

I'd not consider Vettel, because I don't think he can overtake, similar to Bottas.


Okay, final decision: Norris.

---

Edit... I've just googled it and found the answer

This question was posed at the start of the thread, back in late 2020. Back then, it was a question of trust. But now, it doesn't need to be a question of trust, this has been going on for so long, the vaccination programmes are so well-established, that there are vast vast quantities of data available... so don't think about trust any more, just look at the data instead. The picture is quite clear. Vaccines save lives.

Go to the link, select various different countries, and try to determine how vaccination rate relates to death rate. Of course there are oddities and outliers, but the overall trend is quite clear. And this isn't just data from one random YouTube weirdo, it's official, independent data from almost every country in the world.


https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccinations-vs-covid-death-rate

Yep. I've posted several times on here about the possibility, too. But the authorities are well aware of the situation, particularly after they had to penalise Max on two separate occasions in the last race. Masi has issued a warning that they are prepared to deduct points as a punishment for a deliberate crash... so for him to actually state this explicitly, then it's definitely something that the officials believe is a very real possibility.

The question is, even with the warnings, if Max sees Lewis going past him, will his emotions take charge anyway?

If you don't fancy the silicone arm, why not go for a full festive body suit? This thing is as sensible and realistic as any anti-vaxxer "data" source, so there shouldn't be any objection to it at all. And, given we're in mid-December, it's perfectly on-trend. And it's sure to be a big hit with the laydeez, too. Just buy one and turn up at the vaccination centre wearing it, then let us know how you got on.

The chance of a blood clot after taking the AZ vaccine is significantly lower than the chance of a blood clot after contracting Covid. This has been known for the best part of a year. I've been posting about it for the best part of a year. The argument of "AZ causes blood clots, therefore you shouldn't take the vaccine" is akin to "most people who die in car crashes were wearing seat belts, therefore you shouldn't wear a seat belt."


Here's a neat visual summary, from here. You may also want to consider any of the other numerous papers and summaries, such as this one.

I bet Prince Andrew has been sat on that bench at some point.

Actually, saying that he sat on the bench in the context of a trial suggests that he was involved in some sort of sexual abuse of the judge. I don't mean to imply that at all... Prince Andrew of course is eternally innocent and would never be engaged in any such impropriety.  In fact, it's difficult to imagine that he could be involved with this trial in any way. I don't even know why I brought it up, the name just came into my head for some inexplicable reason.

I'm fully anticipating a championship-deciding "accidental" collision at the start. See the exact same thing in Suzuka 1990 with Senna/Prost for a taster. Or if not, maybe a Schumacher '94 or '97, "accidental" championship-deciding crash partway through the race.

The anticipation of this happening is so strong now that Horner has had to come out with a statement denying that Max is planning such a thing!

Of course with everyone expecting it to happen, Max has less chance of getting away with claiming it's an accident, so maybe this in itself is enough to stop it happening.



Yes, coming from Jos Verstappen that's a bit ominous. Remember when he was charged with attempted murder for driving his car into his ex-girlfriend? The "win at all costs mentality" seems to span the generations.

Generally this is the case if the drivers are roughly evenly matched, or even somewhat unevenly matched. But when they are very unevenly matched, it's different. What I mean is that the difference between Lewis and Max does come down in large part to the car, because these two drivers are quite evenly matched. But, Bottas drives a Merc and Perez drives a Red Bull... where are they? Where were they in the last race? Absolutely nowhere, it doesn't matter which one of them has the Merc and which the Red Bull, both will be a long way behind Max and Lewis... so Max and Lewis may have the best cars, but they are also at the front because they are exceptional drivers. If everyone in the race had either a Merc or a Red Bull, it would still be Max and Lewis at the front.




Only on paper. In reality, they have the same. Why do I say that? Because one of Max's "wins" was the Belgium farce where they trundled around behind the safety car for a couple of laps, with zero overtaking and zero actual racing. In reality it's 8 wins each. But of course that's not what counts for the championship...

I think Max will try to crash into Lewis to force a double DNF, and thereby win the championship. The only way Max won't try this is if he is out clear in the lead and Lewis is no threat... as soon as Lewis becomes a threat, he will take him out. Max has a certain mentality that we've seen before, Schumacher for example tried the same thing in the final race of the season twice, once successfully by ramming Hill, and once unsuccessfully by ramming Villeneuve, who managed to limp home damaged to beat Schumacher to the title.

Max is certainly a fast and talented driver, but he's just that type of person, and I think it runs in the family... his dad is an absolute psychopath.

It was a draw, but the last few days have definitely demoralised him. He has no chance of winning the championship, but if he plays conservatively and keeps drawing, then he's lost by three points without winning even one game. I wondered if he might play a more risky strategy from now on, in the hopes of getting just one win on the board. Losing by four points is no different to losing by three points, but getting even one win at this stage might mean something to him.