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1041  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The KRAKEN rises, meaning Godzilla. on: November 04, 2021, 08:50:20 AM
You seem to have forgotten that the atmosphere has LOTS of water in it. The Kraken can crawl the water vapor to anywhere.

I'll concede that you may be right about the public transport thing. Here's photographic evidence of the Kraken venting his fury just after failing to board the 9:30 to Boston, tentacles flailing everywhere. Absolute nightmare.



... But if, as an alternative, he's decided to surf the watery sky highways, doesn't that make him one of the bad guys? Is he being paid off by Big Plane*?







*It looks small in the photo, but that's because it's far away.
1042  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Tennis League All Thread on: November 04, 2021, 08:37:53 AM
Interestingly for points Hurkacz and Norrie are through to the next round.
Norrie in particular needs to progress through as far as he can to get as many
points as he can, now with sinner out can he  get enough points?
Not sure though if Norrie will have enough points, but Hurkacz also needed to win this tournament or at least go further as he can because he needed to stay in the top 10.

The problem for Norrie is that he's due to meet Djokovic in the quarters. Whereas for Hurkacz, with Tsitsipas out of the tournament, he has an easy route through to the semis.
I think Hurkacz has to be a strong favourite to finish the race with more points than Norrie.
1043  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: November 03, 2021, 04:26:04 PM
much of science is based on engineering that made it work

Engineering is a form of applied science. This is why it is vital that engineers understand the laws of physics, and particularly the laws of Newtonian mechanics. You can't be an engineer without understanding how forces work.

In general, theory comes before application. Science comes before engineering. It's not the other way around, as you believe. Engineers don't just magically build stuff that works, and then invite scientists to have a look to work out how they did it. This is why, for example, no-one built a Tesla car in medieval times. Engineering is based on science.


science [...] doesn't work.

Scientific theories are falsifiable, yes, that's a fundamental strength that sets it apart from, say, religion. If the theory doesn't work in practice, that simply adds to our understanding, and helps scientists to devise new, better theories. If it does work, then it is reproducible, and anyone with sufficient expertise can verify this.
1044  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Say NO to smoke detectors! on: November 03, 2021, 10:10:47 AM
Big Phire

That's what they want you to think. Let me tell you, I used to have this smoke detector, and one battery wasn't enough, for some reason it "needed" two. And then one of the batteries got old and I had to get a booster third one. So I don't think it's Big Phire who are running this scam, it smells very strongly* of Big Battery to me.





*A heady zinc/manganese aroma, with notes of potassium.
1045  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The KRAKEN rises, meaning Godzilla. on: November 03, 2021, 08:56:53 AM
Kraken's rising a whole bunch of different ways.
'RUNAWAY TRAIN'!!!
‘RUNAWAY TRAIN’!!!

I think I finally have the answer. If this aquatic behemoth is using the railway network to rise from his briny lair to wreak his vengeance, that really narrows it down. There aren't many underwater trains in the world.
It seems probable (but correct me if I'm wrong) that he's using the Seikan line in Japan, which runs between the islands of Honshu and Hokkaido.
Which of course reveals the answer... Underwater beast? Green and scaly? Lives off the coast of Japan?
It's a simple case of mistaken identity. This isn't the Kraken at all, is it? You've been thinking of Godzilla the whole time.
I can't believe we've had over 200 posts of what appeared to be sensible debate in this thread, but now it's turned out to all be nonsense.


https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/seikan-tunnel/
1046  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Tennis League All Thread on: November 03, 2021, 08:16:57 AM
I think Norrie's chance of making the ATP Finals has gone now. Paris Masters is the last big tournament, and even if he keeps winning, he still has to face Djokovic in the quarters. Losing in the quarters would get him 180 ranking points... he'd need both Sinner and Hurkacz to lose in the last 16 (which seems highly unlikely) to give him a chance... and even then he'd only claw back 90 points on them, Sinner would still be ahead.
1047  Other / Politics & Society / Re: psychological aspect of human behaviour related to sex on: November 02, 2021, 04:02:21 PM
We are getting very close to basic question I am thinking about: Where did that default right and wrong come from? What do you think is the basic of this crowd view?

It's partly the rules of the society as defined by the people in charge. A good example of this might be right and wrong as defined by a religion (religions simply being mechanisms of social control). Something might be 'right' simply because it is more conducive to harmony in a society comprising many individuals, or it might be deliberate behaviour-modification with the establishment of negative consequences for those who transgress.

Really it's a complex subject with no single clear answer. You can go back much further, and consider a default right and wrong as being partly something innate, distilled over millions of years... we might consider evolutionary selection pressures in favour of reciprocal altruism as an example in this case.

And on top of this, there is undirected drift, through changes in culture, homosexuality as an example again here, which in many societies is considered very differently by younger people today than it was even 20 or 30 years ago.

The word 'partly' is key here. There's no single answer.

This thread might benefit from input from some other people, too.
1048  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Tennis League All Thread on: November 02, 2021, 03:26:13 PM
Does anyone know what his immediate goals are as a player? I mean what does
he think he can achieve currently? does he expect to win at least an ATP250 title?

I think his only aim is to get back to the very top and challenge for slams again. I can't see that aiming for anything else would make sense. How could a player with Murray's history and pedigree possibly get motivated if he knows he'll never break back into say the top 50, let alone the top 4, where he used to belong?

It may be that once he accepts he won't regain his previous level, he'll consider retiring.

The only other alternative really is that he simply loves tennis, and loves playing, and the result is a secondary concern - but I can't see that this is the case.
1049  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The end of democracy in Europe on: November 02, 2021, 03:21:02 PM
I would not be too particularly concerned about future variants though. Evolutionary biology tells us that viruses tend to decrease in virulence as time goes on, so variants have the chance to become less deadly. This was the case with the 1918 Spanish flu. Viruses killing their hosts quickly would not allow the viruses to replicate and spread in time is the logic, and a viral infection with no long term symptoms or severe symptoms isn't much a big deal, so while I'm certain Coronavirus is endemic at this point, the threat is certainly not endemic.

Yes, I was looking for data on the relationship between mortality and transmissibility of viruses a while ago, when the first CV-19 variants started to take hold. Certainly a coronavirus such as MERS is much more deadly but much less transmissible. I suppose another factor is the speed of mortality... if a virus is extremely deadly but slow-acting, so you're infectious for a long time before finally succumbing, then there's no pressure on the virus to reduce mortality as it mutates. But I'm by no means an expert, just another armchair virologist.
1050  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Tennis League All Thread on: November 02, 2021, 10:00:25 AM
Yeah, and as the match goes longer, the more Murray will be put to the disadvantage because of his age and his body. So I would say that the surface of the tournament didn't go on his way here.

It's very difficult to bet successfully on Murray matches. Of course he has the talent to beat almost anyone out there, but his physical side is not the same after his injury and surgery, and as you say, the longer a match goes on, the more of an effect it has. And even if he wins a long match, there's a good chance he'll lose the next one regardless of opponent, just because he can't play a lot of matches in quick succession any more. It must be really frustrating for him, he just can't return to his previous level of winning slams and even (briefly) being world number one.


Also wouldn’t it be better for him if he called it quits

I think so, yes.
1051  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The end of democracy in Europe on: November 02, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
comparing unvaccinated deaths with fully vaccinated deaths over the Covid period skews the results. This is because vaccination has only been present in the last few months, so all deaths in the first year or so will be unvaccinated. Government propagandists don't seem to take this into account.
The data are perfectly clear. You just need to look at anything with a time axis, for example, this from the ONS:


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19/latestinsights


It is also important to consider co-morbidities
Co-morbidities are just that. Someone with a chronic lung condition who contracts Covid is more likely to die than if they didn't have the lung condition. But this dispute over reason for death is silly, and is easily debunked by simply considering data on excess deaths, from any reason.



The reason for not vaccination during a pandemic is that it can create variants, and this is exactly what is happening.
Variants arise naturally due to copying errors. The more of a virus is in circulation, the more variants arise. Vaccination reduces the number of variants. This is not complicated. Vaccines of course exert some selection pressure, but this is insignificant... and if you are saying that vaccines create selection pressure, you are also saying that they are effective at preventing infection, you can't have one without the other. Also, which variants are you worried about? Delta is the dominant one... this originated in India in 2020, prior to any vaccines being available.


Most of my knowledge is gleaned from a number of reports and statistics, and is available by reading the base reports from the institutions, and not from the sanitised propaganda.
Fine, show the data.
1052  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The end of democracy in Europe on: November 01, 2021, 04:31:30 PM
You need to stop calling people with concerns over untested particulate vaccines, anti-vaxxers.
I'll concede that it's an easy catch-all term that covers a variety of different viewpoints. I'm not suggesting that your views are the same as, for example, BADecker's.
But regarding the Covid vaccines that are in use today (Pfizer, AZ, Moderna, etc), it is certainly not true that they are untested. They were developed quickly, yes, a sense of urgency is understandable... but they have each been through the normal full testing process, as documented and published.


Vaccines are preventatives not cures
Yes, of course.


and have no place in a pandemic
Why not? You've conceded that a vaccine is a preventative. It prevents people from catching Covid (or mitigates the symptoms if they do). There's no better solution to a pandemic. The only other option is to let everyone catch it, which is not a great idea with a virus that kills people.


or in a country where a virus is endemic.
Why not? Polio used to be endemic until it wasn't... because of vaccination.
Certainly people who currently have Covid shouldn't take the vaccine, but that's a separate issue... and is one of the screening questions at the vaccination appointment anyway.


All causes mortality is higher in the full and partial vaccinated than in the unvaccinated.
Are you suggesting that people who have had the vaccine are more likely to die from any unrelated reason, than those who haven't? I don't know if this is the case or not, but if it were, it wouldn't be surprising given that the vaccine was administered in descending order of age and frailty. The vaccination rate in a nursing home will be higher than that in a primary school. Booster jabs are currently being administered solely to the over 50s and the clinically vulnerable.


The figures are distorted by including partially vaccinated with those who have gained natural immunity, and the highest number of deaths are in the partially vaccinated. The low rates of fully vaccinated are as a result of the vaccines killing off the vaccine vulnerable before they can complete the course.
[CITATION NEEDED]
This is not supported by the data, which I have shared many times. If you have the numbers, then please present them.
1053  Other / Politics & Society / Re: psychological aspect of human behaviour related to sex on: November 01, 2021, 02:49:38 PM
~

Merited purely for the vivid descriptions.  Grin
1054  Other / Politics & Society / Re: psychological aspect of human behaviour related to sex on: November 01, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
I am observing some level of dogmatic view to matters related to sex across whole society. So maybe it is not so individual as it can be seemed?

It's not entirely individual, no. I think I started by saying there is a 'default' right and wrong which is whatever is defined that way by the conventions of the society. A personal right and wrong may differ from the default. There is huge pressure to conform, so in many instances the personal ideas of right and wrong may be suppressed in favour of going along with the crowd view in order to fit in.
We could consider homosexuality as an example. Over the course of the last fifty years, in many societies, the default (and legal) definition has migrated from being 'wrong' to 'right'. And obviously many people have suppressed their homosexuality, which they believe to be 'right', because society in general, or their peer group specifically, believed (or still believe) it to be 'wrong'.
1055  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The end of democracy in Europe on: November 01, 2021, 12:53:11 PM
it is fair to say tyranny replaced democracy in Europe

Tyranny is when a couple of anti-vaxxer zealot politicians expect everyone else to bow to their demands. Vaccination is a public health issue, not a freedom issue. But at least you've not tried to compare it to the Holocaust this time, so that's something.
1056  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? on: November 01, 2021, 10:04:20 AM
But really, the burden of proof lies on the religion fanatics. Considering they impose their religion on so much of their life, you think they'd have some reasoning to believe what they believe. Not just a belief because someone told them so, but actual evidence. Most just use religion as a moral guide or to have a sense of belonging. Not that it would effect anyone, but religion has led to the most pain and suffering in human history. It's possible that all this pain and suffering would have happened anyway, even if it wasn't in the name of god, because let's face it, humans were pretty animalistic before modern moral philosophy.
The burden of proof lies on everybody making a claim.

Gyfts is correct, that the burden of proof lies with the theists. The reason for this is that the default, status quo position has to be that God doesn't exist. If you consider the world around you, you see buildings, trees, sky, animals, but no God. You may posit that because you don't understand how the world came to exist, some higher power must have created it... but this idea, in the absence of evidence, is merely that: an idea. And the burden of proof lies especially heavy when the idea is one that, by its nature, can be proven but can never be disproven.

Atheists are not making a claim. Rather, they are saying to the theists: your claim has no supporting evidence. This is apparent in the word itself: a-theism is a response to the theist position.



Not being able to prove the existence of something doesn't necessarily disprove it.

This is a separate issue, and doesn't relate to the question of the burden of proof other than through Russell's Teapot ("the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making empirically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others").
1057  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... on: November 01, 2021, 09:37:46 AM
Well, next year we will have a reset anyone, the next year with the new car will probably win who will find a "grey area" in the regulation like BRAWNGP did back on days.

It may be boring, but I'd back Mercedes to come up with the best design, they've been a long way ahead of the rest for the current era.

They are struggling a bit this year, but that's an anomaly that's been forced on them really, with the way the new rules affect high/low rake cars differently, and with a full rebuild being impossible for the current season, it's hit Mercedes and Pink Mercedes harder than others.
1058  Other / Politics & Society / Re: psychological aspect of human behaviour related to sex on: October 31, 2021, 09:44:00 PM
it is totally natural to assert yourself at the detriment of others, but I am not sure if it is OK to do it by force without using rational arguments.
People do it all the time; you only have to look at some of the anti-vaxxer threads on here to see people starting from an emotion-derived conclusion and then attempting to prop it up with logic. But it's not just them, of course, I'm sure we all do this sometimes, to some extent.



You were talking about Alices's pre-established conclusion coming from emotional position that Mary's actions are wrong. Where does this specific conclusion come from? What is the origin of such a judgement?
There's no single answer, because the root cause will differ from person to person. You'd have to unpack someone's whole identity to understand why they feel a certain way about something.
1059  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Plandemic Survey] I wonder how many of you have been vaccinated ? on: October 31, 2021, 08:47:50 PM
If Alice has covid, and coughs on Bob, who is vaccinated, there will likely be some covid infected droplets get into Bob's respiratory system and his sinus. The virus may live inside his body for a period of time, and may even reproduce while inside his body without the 'assistance' of his body. If Bob is tested later that day, he may show as being infected, even if the test picks up Alice's droplets. I don't know that this has ever happened, or if it does happen, how frequently it happens. At no point would Bob's body act any differently than it would otherwise act.

If the above happens, is it really accurate to say that Bob is infected?

If this happens, then perhaps not. And if, because of this, the chance of infection amongst vaccinated people is actually lower than believed, then it strengthens the case for vaccination.



If Alice has covid, and coughs on Bob

The other issue with this is that Peter would likely be quite displeased at Alice's relationship with Bob, given her past history.
I'm not consciously migrating our discussion to a different thread with each post I make; it's just how it's working out.
1060  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Say NO to smoke detectors! on: October 31, 2021, 05:18:47 PM
I have to wonder as to just how much of the qAnon crap is actually being published by those on the left who are trying to make their political opponents look like stupid extremists. 
I'd imagine the amount is zero or very low, as qAnon already look like stupid extremists, and don't need any help. But it would certainly be a sound strategy in general, yes. Not thinking so much about the US, but in countries where there are more than two parties who can win votes, the best way to get say a left-wing party into power would be to create a new right-wing party to split the right-wing vote, and vice versa.



Smoke detectors are very clearly being used as a metaphor for vaccines.
I don't think so. Past experience leads me to believe that many anti-vaxxers would not understand the concept of a metaphor, so the effort would largely be wasted.



The ridiculous arguments made on that website
I find their arguments to be solid, and intellectually compelling. For example, fire departments are certainly socialist.
Apologies, that's not sufficiently dramatic, it should be: SOCIALIST!!!
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