Martin Armstrong Discussion

[realr0ach]

You might be able to make the argument that central banks will still have gold on the bottom as the risk-free asset, but that has no bearing on what we as individuals should choose if we’re concerned about the bankrupted government expropriating our wealth.

This is a false equivalence argument claiming that since central banks hold large amounts of metals, it must be a scam that's detrimental to a normal human using them.  This is probably your worst argument ever.  The fact central banks hold them is due to the free market already sorting out what is and isn't useful over the course of thousands of years.  They were forced by nature to use them themselves because it's the best option.
They did not make the choice.

They know damn well they’re taking us to a global monetary reset and they’re funding/encouraging/facilitating the goldbug propaganda (e.g. FOFOA)

Random tidbits of plans are floated by people such as Jim Rickards and FOA because a large percent of the wealthy power brokers ALL have to be on the same page about what asset class is revalued as the new peg.  If China revalues one asset to defuse the debt bubble, while the US revalues another, and Russia a different one, it doesn't work.  For things like international trade to continue to function, they all have to do the same one (the noble metals).  If each nation on earth did a different one, it would require a Soviet iron curtain to maintain because other nations would instantly destroy it with arb.

It's already a given that the peg will be gold.  The only question is the silver ratio, such as:  Will they attempt, say, $10,000 gold and silver at the cost of production peg (something like 64:1 ratio)?  Will they attempt to do it based on past mining ratios of what's actually coming out of the earth (15:1)?  Will they do it based on current mining ratios coming out of the earth (9:1)?  Or will they only revalue gold and then everyone just dumps the comparatively overvalued gold until the undervalued assets spike and silver goes to something like 15:1 ratio anyway?

It appears the US doesn't actually have much if any gold in Ft Knox, and will mostly be depending on silver revaluation due to JP Morgan acquiring a large amount for the US govt.  Since the London banks, the Chinese, and the Russians actually do store large amounts of silver bars, contrary to popular opinion, they probably don't have a huge problem with silver seeing a high ratio anyway.  Since silver can already hit 30:1 ratio even within their rigged system, I see silver going to a 30:1 ratio or lower compared to gold regardless of whether silver is artificially pegged or it's free market price is allowed to be discovered.

I had already explained in this thread, that the government has now the increasing power to make sure that during any such monetary reset that they can make it impossible for private investors of (significant quantities of) precious metals to achieve any hedge whatsoever.

There is where you show your true colors as a crypto shill that doesn't care about things like logic and facts.  First you claim people should not use metals because central banks have them and you should do the opposite of what the banks do because it's good for humanity or some other jibberish.  In the next paragraph you claim you should allow the bankers to herd you wherever they want and it doesn't matter what's good or bad for humans, you should just do whatever the banks want and if they don't want you to use metals, you should go along with that.  

You cannot take both positions at the same time.  This is 100% illogical shilling.  You're arguing both pro-statist and anti-statist for the same point.  This means you do not actually have a position at all.  You also pretend it's not possible for a monetary Schelling point to exist that bankers and normal humans are both pulled to (metals).  You ignore this fact because you know no Schelling point exists for cryptocurrency at all.  There's no way to force everyone into the same coin without some tyrannical police state mandating it.  Cryptocurrency is designed to die by infinite diffusion when there's no upper bound or overhead preventing coins that can be made and endless incentive to create new ones (unlike metals).  

Supporting crypto is therefore pro-statist because the state mandating which one you're forced to use will be the only thing bringing order to chaos.

[1714283765]

1714283765

[1714283765]

1714283765

[1714283765]

1714283765

[1714283765]

1714283765

[1714283765]

1714283765

[CRED.me]

The fact central banks hold them is due to the free market already sorting out what is and isn't useful over the course of thousands of years […] It's already a given that the peg will be gold […] It appears the US doesn't actually have much if any gold in Ft Knox

Lol, the Zionists have you hoodwinked as designed. Carry on.

Double-down on your silver bet please. Most of us “crypto shills” here will be laughing our heads off later. You’re only a 25 bagger (2500% relative loss) behind already.

Trump’s cabinet are lying about Fort Knox? And btw, there’s more gold supposed to be stored at the NY Fed, than Fort Knox, and Germany recently completed repatriation of their gold from the NY Fed.

if they don't want you to use metals, you should go along with that

Somehow you didn’t get from my comments the intended meaning that the Zionists want you to stack precious metals. It’s a trap. You’re apparently experiencing cognitive dissonance while reading my shocking posts.

You're arguing both pro-statist and anti-statist for the same point.

My analysis is like 3D chess. You’re still stuck in one dimensional (one degree-of-freedom) analysis.

Now you're trying to cut and paste different sentences together to try and make them mean different things

No, I’m just trying to simplify which excerpts are relevant to respond to as tersely as possible, so I can leave this discussion with minimum additional verbiage. I’ve already made my arguments clear enough. Debate is complete.

You’re entirely free to think what ever you want, and lose your relative wealth. Enjoy. I have no desire to carry the debate forward or ever restart it with you again. Go ahead and spread your views and ridicule mine as you wish. I tried my best to help you with edification. I did my part.

IMO, you’ve been so mind programmed by the goldbug propaganda lies, that you’re incapable of escaping the cognitive dissonance.

[realr0ach]

Now you're trying to cut and paste different sentences together to try and make them mean different things and then using one-liners that have zero to do with what was posted.  I knew damn well you would be unable to address any of those facts so would have to stoop to something like this.

[realr0ach]

Trump’s cabinet are lying about Fort Knox?

Of course Mnuchin is lying about Ft Knox.  There's a reason Russia just recently put out DOZENS of photos of all it's gold and silver inside the vaults in January and Mnuchin is simply holding up ONE SINGLE BAR in a picture.  The velocity of gold leaving Ft Knox was enormous every decade from the 70's to now until they finally just started to lie about it and claim it's flat instead of decreasing.

http://englishrussia.com/2018/01/08/how-is-1800-tons-of-gold-being-stored-in-main-gold-storage-of-russia

Russians and the BoE are clearly stacking silver too:



Also, according to Mnuchin's dollar figures, he stated there's around 5000 tons of gold there.  If the govt is supposed to have 8000 or whatever, that might have been a hint they are short and he's talking 5000 total in all locations.  I HIGHLY doubt they have anywhere near 5000 myself from the amount that was leaving per year since the 70's.  My estimates after I looked at all these numbers in the past was that the US govt could only have a max of 2000 tons at best, but likely closer to 0.  This is why JP Morgan is acquiring all that silver, acting as an agent of the US govt to give them some type of reserve.  The US legal system says the dollar is supposed to be 371 grains of silver anyway, so they can just switch and avoid the hassle of explaining who stole all the gold and where it went.

[sidhujag]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-makes-sense-central-banks-boost-foreign-reserves-digital-drake

Central banks already feel greshams law pressuring them. Sooner or later they will be fully reserved in crypto (non permissioned chain). Happening infront of our eyes simple evolution taking place. Nash was right all along.

[realr0ach]

Central banks already feel greshams law pressuring them. Sooner or later they will be fully reserved in crypto

An imaginary token is not a "reserve", it's an IOU.  Not sure how you people are this uneducated.  If a nation buys a foreign currency, they're entering an informal contract and receiving an IOU or credit of the other country. Bitcoin is the same thing except instead of signing up for an informal credit contract with another nation, you have essentially scammed yourself and signed up to allow a withdrawal to anonymously be made from your coffers with no possible way to recoup it unless you can trick someone else into taking your place as creditor to this unknown entity.

This is why the people who issue paper money (aka IOUs) make fun of the people who accept it such as the picture below.  Since humans live in the physical plane of existence and not inside of a computer where scarcity doesn't even exist, unless you have taken physical delivery of some type of object in this plane of existence, you're a creditor.  You can then argue about whether you got a good deal or not on the markup or seigniorage fee of the product afterwards, but those are the facts.

[realr0ach]

And you gotta love the people who complain they didn't get enough from the Ponzi:

my first BTC hoodie cost $90,000  

That's not a valid way to think of it.  Bitcoin isn't an actual store of value or anything.  Whether you want to admit it or not, it's a 'scheme'.  Either a flat out fly by night pump and dump at worst, or an imaginary token of a dysfunctional Rube Goldberg machine that will eventually collapse at best.  

Anything acquired with it is the equivalent of black looters rushing a Footlocker and trying to run out with shoes.  Some looters will get only one shoe and will have completely wasted their time.  Others will get several boxes of shoes or a 6 pack of Heineken. But you can't feel sorry for the people who didn't get as much because they were all just looters looking for free shit without working by participating in some type of scheme anyway.

[realr0ach]

After discovering this old Peter Thiel quote, I think I will now refer to bitcoin as "Thiel's Folly 2.0":

"PayPal will give citizens worldwide more direct control over their currencies than they ever had before. It will be nearly impossible for corrupt governments to steal wealth from their people through their old means, because if they try, the people will switch to dollars or pounds or yen, in effect dumping the worthless local currency for something more secure."

[realr0ach]

Proof you guys are idiots if you haven't figured this out:

I really thought we can win vs jews from WS - no way. (he's talking about bitcoin)

It's easy to tell what you should be buying.  All you really need to know is, ALL media is Jewish media.  Do you think Harry Dent actually buys all these ads?  HELL NO.  He's a shabbos goyim.  The Comex is forwarding all their contracts to London recently - that's a TECHNICAL DEFAULT.  And how could it not have happened when it's the only asset on earth not in a bubble?  The Jews want to keep people from buying physical silver or gold at all costs:

Also:

The r0ach report 35: The FISA memo is likely the scapegoat to blow up the economy

https://steemit.com/news/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-35-the-fisa-memo-is-likely-the-scapegoat-to-blow-up-the-economy

[sidhujag]

Central banks already feel greshams law pressuring them. Sooner or later they will be fully reserved in crypto

An imaginary token is not a "reserve", it's an IOU.  Not sure how you people are this uneducated.  If a nation buys a foreign currency, they're entering an informal contract and receiving an IOU or credit of the other country. Bitcoin is the same thing except instead of signing up for an informal credit contract with another nation, you have essentially scammed yourself and signed up to allow a withdrawal to anonymously be made from your coffers with no possible way to recoup it unless you can trick someone else into taking your place as creditor to this unknown entity.

This is why the people who issue paper money (aka IOUs) make fun of the people who accept it such as the picture below.  Since humans live in the physical plane of existence and not inside of a computer where scarcity doesn't even exist, unless you have taken physical delivery of some type of object in this plane of existence, you're a creditor.  You can then argue about whether you got a good deal or not on the markup or seigniorage fee of the product afterwards, but those are the facts.

Hey pig, fact is they issue fiat dollars and are buying crypto with it for a hedge instead of gold. Another fact we have already had a gold standard and it did not work. #youcantbethatstupid can you?

[thejaytiesto]

Also the Zionists know damn well what they’re doing to take us to a NWO global reserve currency via a monetary reset which replaces the USD as the reserve currency with a global one. And that is why they created and planted Bitcoin as a surreptitious creative destruction of the nation-state central banking system with the USD as the reserve (which served it’s interim role but now they’re capable of moving to next level of global integration and control so they want to use subterfuge to disintermediate their own surreptitiously controlled central banks surreptitiously).

How do the forkers (as in these trying to fork Bitcoin) sit within your theory? We have for example the theory/conspiracy of Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen (and now Craig Wright as well) being hired by the CIA to promote the several amounts of Bitcoin fork attempts that have taken place (XT, Classic, Unlimited, and Gavin also supported Bitcoin Cash).

So what role do the forks and the forkers play within your model specifically?


And about the name, you already talked about Verify using the CRED token... will this be a problem? I mean it's already on a couple of exchanges.

There's also "Decred" and another one called "Credo" (whatever that is). If CRED becomes huge enough I don't see these being a problem, but with so many alike names you really want to stand out to not confuse noobs.

[CRED.me]

Trump’s cabinet are lying about Fort Knox?

Of course Mnuchin is lying about Ft Knox.

[…]

Russians and the BoE are clearly stacking silver too:

How befitting that the hi-tech USA offloaded the dying industrial age and the barbaric relic gold on Russia and China.

Or someone may wish to bluff and make the world think that acquiring gold is some strategic advantage, so the compartmentalized central banks are focused on gold while they’re disintemediated by permissionless (no third party because nobody controls them) decentralized ledger technology.

Now even if we presume that Bitcoin is ultimately controlled by TPTB, for all extents and purposes until they exert that control in a way that causes third-party risk, then Bitcoin is permissionless without trust risk and thus superior to gold (and additionally because no one can prove who is in control or if mining is centrally controlled, because mining is more or less anonymous). And obviously if their goal is creative destruction of the nation-state politics that causes them to have to maintain 170+ central-banks, they won’t exert any such control until the 666 stage of Revelation which comes after the 10 Kings stage (i.e. 10 regional currencies and economic unions instead of nation-states) and the disintermediation of the central banks.

Because any way, TPTB also control gold (via their control/influence over the DEEP STATE from behind the curtain) as has been explained to you.

Another facet is that it has been shown that Bitcoin requires an oligarchy to form, else it will no longer converge on consensus as the transaction fees become significant relative to programmed block reward. Thus even if we posit that the global elite are not cooperating nor in control, then they must or a victor must form, else Bitcoin will eventually fork off into chaos. Yet we require the same about gold and the formation of a new monetary reset with a new reserve standard (that someone must take control to make the choice and enforce it). So one way or the other, some oligarchy must enforce order, else we end up in a Dark Age. But as I pointed out, the route to a new reserve standard via gold is impossible (you’ll end up with a scorched earth nuclear-bombs WW3 as the superpowers battle it out over due to collapsing economics and war-politics during massive deflation for which asset or mix of assets should be the reserve and who should oversee and control that)! Whereas, Bitcoin is virally replacing the world’s banking systems without any need for top-down political coordination. Bitcoin is a market-based solution to an otherwise intractable globalization political problem. As @CoinCube had explained, globalism is all about maximizing coordination so that on the local level humans have more degrees-of-freedom and so the knowledge age can proceed. As he also explained, there’s no such thing as 100% decentralization, which is what would be required for @r0ach’s (goldbug’s) theories about gold to be true. As Armstrong has explained many times, every form of fungible money is a fiat, even gold. It’s human greed, lust for power, and idolization of fungible stored monetary value which may lead them into the 666, while the non-fungible knowledge age provides an outlet for those who choose it. At the generative essence, for example the feminist politics is just non-meritorious greed and lust for power and the manipulation of religion/philosophy to accomplish such.

Gold is not at all involved in this decentralization of information. It’s analogous to the comparison of the value of mechanically crushed gravel compared to etched silicon. The intellectual property component of the valuation is orders-of-magnitude differentiated. @r0ach (@realr0ach) why can’t you comprehend that purely monetary stored value is dying, because the industrial age and fixed capital investment is dying. Why can’t you comprehend my essay, “Rise of Knowledge, Demise of Finance”? You’re as myopic as the Luddites, who couldn’t accept that technology had changed the economics from their antiquated, truculent understanding of the world.

My CRED consensus design is an attempt to have a more transparency+objectivity on defection from the group consensus. It allows the elite to remain anonymous and in control for as long as they don’t violate the permissionless protocol and if they do, it provides a means for the swarm of humanity to collectively and objectively route around their defection without a political battle nor disintegration into a forkathon. The power-law distribution of wealth can’t be eliminated for as long as we need fungible or groupwise consensus; thus, the objective is to ameliorate the negative impacts of it.

[realr0ach]

Anonymint, why are you jacking off about craptocurrency when they are clearly just recreating the exact same usury systems all over again?  How the fuck is this "the decentralized knowledge age"?  Or do you not agree with my analysis that bitcoin is in fact based on usury?:

Bitcoin still dont have a lending system. So we cant classify it as a usury system, unless your /pol/ dictionary have changed its meaning.

You do not actually understand how bitcoin works.  Proof of work isn't "work", it's spending money to put metal boxes on cruise control to generate interest.  Anywhere there is interest involved, there is usury.  They are not miners or transaction validators and they are not doing work, they are rent seekers.  If bitcoin was the world reserve currency (god forbid), and you're one of the tiny amount of mining monopolies demanding a cut of every transaction, you are practicing usury.  

You see, so called "proof of work" is really just externalized proof of stake in practice.  There is no real difference besides the external stake has a slightly higher chance of eroding than an internal one.  Both schemes generate interest and where there is interest, there is usury.  The only way out of that paradigm, like I said, is for everyone to process their own transactions like email PoW - unprofitable PoW style.  As I also said, IOTA was the closest attempt at that, but it's not possible to form consensus in a DAG without artificial convergence, so it's a failure - an easily predictable failure because it's not possible to create a decentralized digital currency.

[CRED.me]

Anonymint, why are you jacking off about craptocurrency when they are clearly just recreating the exact same usury systems all over again?  How the fuck is this "the decentralized knowledge age"?  Or do you not agree with my analysis that bitcoin is in fact based on usury?:

@r0ach goldbugs are myopic absolutists that forever dream to live in a perfect world that can’t exist. They never think through the ramifications of what they want and compare the alternatives.

Friction always exists, for without it the past and future would be undifferentiated and we could not exist (everything would happen at the same spacetime and we couldn’t perceive any differentiation of past and future). Usury and proof-of-work are just forms of friction. What makes them somewhat less optimal is that some centralized entity is able to aggregate/leverage/funnel that friction into centralized power. Yet the power-law distribution is a fact of nature. It’s actually required (but I won’t go too deep into that because the explanation will become too abstract, theoretical, and complex).

Yet w.r.t. to fungibility and consensus systems, a centralized power may be necessary to enforce and prevent disintegration into chaotic disagreement (e.g. forkathons with competing double-spends). You may argue that gold is fungible without any centralized power, but the centralized power facet enters at the level of the alternative choices civilization has for stored monetary value representation and the wars and disagreements those choices cause. Society is unwilling to allow some lazy fat cats sitting on gold doing nothing while extracting all the production from society in the form of deflation! That is why the money supply must increase (either via creating more of the same unit-of-account or alternatives becoming available).

Money is an information system that enables cooperation and civilization. The quantity theory of money is wrong, wrong, wrong at many different levels of analysis.

So what role do the forks and the forkers play within your model specifically?

The forks have not displaced Bitcoin¹ as the reserve of the cryptocurrency ecosystem, nor stopped the progression of cryptocurrency in its disintermediation of nation-state currency and banking systems.

It’s not clear yet which technology will provide transactional cryptocurrency to the masses, and whether this will be a global unit-of-exchange or will the nation-states succeed in requiring national currencies for all transactions within their borders. I posit nation-states will have to forsake control over globalized transactions, such as those on the Internet especially those involving transactions (especially microtransactions) between international parties.

¹ _{I believe Satoshi’s protocol has not been displaced. Some people are transacting on a protocol that can be double-spent back to Satoshi’s protocol in the future[next crypto winter]. Greater fools always have to be raped by the market. That’s the way markets function.}

[realr0ach]

Society is unwilling to allow some lazy fat cats sitting on gold doing nothing while extracting all the production from society in the form of deflation!

Except that isn't even a problem in the first place.  If gold does not circulate, the value of the silver circulating just replaces it's market cap by proxy.  If the silver doesn't circulate, there's a shit ton of copper so it's never been past that point.  Stop trying to fuck with nature.  Anonymint makes for a very crappy god.  It's also an erroneous bugmen philosophy to claim some technological dystopia is going to solve any human problems.  Bitcoin is not exempt from the Ted Kaczynski rule.

[CRED.me]

Society is unwilling to allow some lazy fat cats sitting on gold doing nothing while extracting all the production from society in the form of deflation!

Except that isn't even a problem in the first place.  If gold does not circulate, the value of the silver circulating just replaces it's market cap by proxy.  If the silver doesn't circulate, there's a shit ton of copper so it's never been past that point.

Ah you’re right back to legal tender again and have solved nothing. The nation-states (and local politics) can continue to subjugate their citizens to seigniorage and fiat. Did you forget the silver politics in the USA that bankrupted the country (JP Morgan had to bail out the USA).

Physical money can’t cross borders on a photon-based communications line! How dumb are you that you can’t comprehend this?

Globalized monetary competition (aka jurisdictional arbitrage) has more degrees-of-freedom thus more potential energy.

Bitcoin is not exempt from the Ted Kaczynski rule.

Citing an insane, sociopath, anti-civilization, uncooperative person exemplifies who you are.

Go live in the isolated forest and take your metal with you. Do not trade with the rest of civilization. Go try what you really want, which is to live like a caveman. Society is never going back to using physical metals as a unit-of-exchange in commerce.

[realr0ach]

Society is unwilling to allow some lazy fat cats sitting on gold doing nothing while extracting all the production from society in the form of deflation!

Except that isn't even a problem in the first place.  If gold does not circulate, the value of the silver circulating just replaces it's market cap by proxy.  If the silver doesn't circulate, there's a shit ton of copper so it's never been past that point.  Stop trying to fuck with nature.  Anonymint makes for a very crappy god.  It's also an erroneous bugmen philosophy to claim some technological dystopia is going to solve any human problems.  Bitcoin is not exempt from the Ted Kaczynski rule.

Ah you’re right back to legal tender again and have solved nothing. The nation-states (and local politics) can continue to subjugate their citizens to seigniorage and fiat. Did you forget the silver politics in the USA that bankrupted the country.

Physical money can’t cross borders on an electro-magnetic or optical communications line! How dumb are you that you can’t comprehend this?

Globalized monetary competition has more degrees-of-freedom thus more potential energy.

Oh please, you are clearly going down the same path as the socialists/communists.  Your stichk is just "trust me guys, everything will be okay if I can just force you all into this technological dystopia".  Socialist dystopia, communist dystopia, Anonymint dystopia, it's all the same difference.  They are all man-made, dysfunctional, Rube Goldberg machines.  There's no point advocating any retarded artificial systems like this when you can just use what nature has already provided and architected in a much better manner than you ever will.  This is the standard programmer god complex.

[CRED.me]

Anonymint, why are you jacking off about craptocurrency […]  How the fuck is this "the decentralized knowledge age"?

Oh please, you are clearly going down the same path as the socialists/communists.

So the Internet has not benefited the human species   The Internet enabled no decentralization whatsoever? All technology creates is socialism and communism? Nonsense.

Lol, you can't handle the truth of what your malfunction is, can you?

The Internet is only about malfunctions of technology? Nonsense again.

@r0ach (aka @realr0ach) put on Ignore for having too low of an IQ (or personality traits which render his IQ to extreme myopia, absolutism, and Ludditism) to be worth having a discussion with and for slandering my reputation with his conflation of the facts. End of discussion. I have work to do.

He’s conflating unrelated concepts. Socialism and communism require politics. The Internet may participate in socialism and communism but that’s not their only function and impact. The technological designs I’m working on posit to ameliorate the politics of consensus. That’s the entire point of seeking decentralized ledgers. Bitcoin even if ultimately controlled by global elite from behind the mining curtain, is in effect providing more degrees-of-freedom (i.e. less political morass) than nation-state political morasses (which Bitcoin side-steps and disintermediates). Yet I’m repeating myself. That was already explained to him.

@r0ach is a Luddite.

IMO @sidhujag is vindicated on his characterization of @r0ach being disingenuous in discussion. I tried my best. Respectful disagreement is acceptable. But it is not acceptable, the slandering by mischaracterizing another person’s philosophy and intentions, with his logical errors. It’s trolling.

I place greater than 50% odds that @r0ach is greater than 60 years old, perhaps 70s or 80s.

[realr0ach]

Lol, you can't handle the truth of what your malfunction is, can you?  Get Coincube in here, he probably agrees with me.  You want to try to force your will over other people by making them participate in your technological Rube Goldberg machine.  This is exactly what commies, socialists, etc all do.  

The odds of technology solving any monetary problems is SLIM TO NONE.  In fact, it will be exactly as Kaczynski already predicted, it will just create better slavery systems.  But according to Anonymint, because he's a "technologist", anything technology related is automatically good!  Wait, let me rephrase that.  Other people's technology is bad, but Anonymint technology is good.

And don't give me this dumb "luddite" talk.  Everyone is an Amish or Luddite to some extent if you don't plan to cut off your head and replace it with a T-100 Terminator skull.

[sidhujag]

Anonymint, why are you jacking off about craptocurrency […]  How the fuck is this "the decentralized knowledge age"?

Oh please, you are clearly going down the same path as the socialists/communists.

So the Internet has not benefited the human species   The Internet enabled no decentralization whatsoever? All technology creates is socialism and communism? Nonsense.

Lol, you can't handle the truth of what your malfunction is, can you?

The Internet is only about malfunctions of technology? Nonsense again.

@r0ach (aka @realr0ach) put on Ignore for having too low of an IQ (or personality traits which render his IQ to extreme myopia, absolutism, and Ludditism) to be worth having a discussion with and for slandering my reputation with his conflation of the facts. End of discussion. I have work to do.

He’s conflating unrelated concepts. Socialism and communism require politics. The Internet may participate in socialism and communism but that’s not their only function and impact. The technological designs I’m working on posit to ameliorate the politics of consensus. That’s the entire point of seeking decentralized ledgers. Bitcoin even if ultimately controlled by global elite from behind the mining curtain, is in effect providing more degrees-of-freedom (i.e. less political morass) than nation-state political morasses (which Bitcoin side-steps and disintermediates). Yet I’m repeating myself. That was already explained to him.

@r0ach is a Luddite.

IMO @sidhujag is vindicated on his characterization of @r0ach being disingenuous in discussion. I tried my best. Respectful disagreement is acceptable. But it is not acceptable, the slandering by mischaracterizing another person’s philosophy and intentions, with his logical errors. It’s trolling.

I place greater than 50% odds that @r0ach is greater than 60 years old, perhaps 70s or 80s.

What took you so long lol. I totally agree with you on your points you are able to frame the discussion very well. I put the pest on waivers on aswell.