What's your opinion of gun control?

[Spendulus]

The problem isn't guns, the problem is people.  Joe Rogan likes to point out that the US has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem.  Most of my friend's and I are gun owners.  We hunt or target shoot or, in my case, carry for protection when I'm out in the middle of the Mojave desert (never know what or who you'll run into in the wild, wild west).  Normal, well balanced, educated gun owners are an asset to civilized society.  Crazy people, especially crazy people with guns, is a problem.

But several of the recent shooting could have been, maybe not prevented, but the casualties greatly reduced had there been a properly trained and armed gun owner present.  In one situation at a school there were several off-duty police officers who were forced to leave their guns in their vehicles because the school is a "no gun zone".  Well obviously no one pointed out that sign to the crazy guy with a gun who shot a bunch of people.  Had the off-duty law enforcement been properly armed they could have subdued the situation immediately.

I am often dumbstruck by the fact that the majority of people calling for "gun control" do not own and have never owned firearms themselves.

I would only add to your comment (bolded) that police officers in many jurisdictions only fire a box of shells a year, but sure, they still present a deadly force to the crazy shooter.  But any sport shooter is likely doing thousands of rounds routinely.  And the average concealed carry individual, say some woman who once had an issue with an assault or rape, and then started carrying, also presents a deadly force to the crazy shooter.

Reality of the situation is that the US citizen is hostage to a Federal Rule that creates local situational danger where such "No gun zones" are designated.

I believe this is correct, that it's a federal rule about the schools being "no gun zones."  In other cases, though it can be from the right of a business owner under state law to put up his "no gun zone" sign.  The oppressive rule, though, is the federal rule.  At least that's my opinion....it's not right to have a federal law that we must take our kids to "SCHOOL X" and then another federal rule that they must be rendered defenseless there.

[tvbcof]

On guns...I bought a 300 win mag today but have yet to get it in my grubby dick-skiners since I had to special order the thing.  Will be a nice addition to my growing gun collection, and quasi-necessary to utilize my land-owner preference elk tags.  I hope to take the creature from the ridge line while standing in my yard.....

Standing?  So you are going to have to put the beer down?

I'm not enough of a boozer (yet) to where that should be a problem, but I can pretty much promise that I'll have a pinch of Grizzly Green between my cheek and gum.  Always do.  Being a man-sized man I don't believe I'd have much trouble remaining on my feet, but I'll be trying to use a rest since I'm not that great of a shot.  The ridgeline is about 400 yards.

All those people shouting for gun control need to look at the science.

Like this -

According to a study in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, which cites the Centers for Disease Control, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the United Nations International Study on Firearms Regulation, the more guns a nation has, the less criminal activity.

...more firearms, less crime....

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Articles/Harvard-University-Study-Reveals-Astonishing-Link.aspx?p=1#eJB0Tbj7173AvUcu.99

Unless, of course, they want to be branded Science Deniers!

That article is a keeper.  I'd want to research some of the facts before relying on them in an argument.  To bad there are no obvious footnotes.

[Corealz]

I think people should be able to have basic weapons for self defense.

[Spendulus]

On guns...I bought a 300 win mag today but have yet to get it in my grubby dick-skiners since I had to special order the thing.  Will be a nice addition to my growing gun collection, and quasi-necessary to utilize my land-owner preference elk tags.  I hope to take the creature from the ridge line while standing in my yard.....

Standing?  So you are going to have to put the beer down?

I'm not enough of a boozer (yet) to where that should be a problem, but I can pretty much promise that I'll have a pinch of Grizzly Green between my cheek and gum.  Always do.  Being a man-sized man I don't believe I'd have much trouble remaining on my feet, but I'll be trying to use a rest since I'm not that great of a shot.  The ridgeline is about 400 yards.

Are you able to get a couple practice shots off, maybe one every couple of days, to get it sighted in?  Maybe a target up on the ridge?

[tvbcof]

On guns...I bought a 300 win mag today but have yet to get it in my grubby dick-skiners since I had to special order the thing.  Will be a nice addition to my growing gun collection, and quasi-necessary to utilize my land-owner preference elk tags.  I hope to take the creature from the ridge line while standing in my yard.....

Standing?  So you are going to have to put the beer down?

I'm not enough of a boozer (yet) to where that should be a problem, but I can pretty much promise that I'll have a pinch of Grizzly Green between my cheek and gum.  Always do.  Being a man-sized man I don't believe I'd have much trouble remaining on my feet, but I'll be trying to use a rest since I'm not that great of a shot.  The ridgeline is about 400 yards.

Are you able to get a couple practice shots off, maybe one every couple of days, to get it sighted in?  Maybe a target up on the ridge?

I'll certainly try.  There are horses nearby and I could probably only do it if they were out on a walk.  The other ridge lines have to many trees.  I will practice on shooting up-hill to make sure I am proficient at doing so in case the opportunity presents itself.  There are other places on my property where I could take elk but I kind of want them to feel safe in those whereas the preferred ridge leads directly down to my and my neighbor's pastures and orchards where I don't really want the them there anyway.

[Wilikon]

A Little Gun History Lesson


 
*  In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.  This doesn't include the 30 million 'Uncle Joe' starved to death in the Ukraine.
 
 
*  In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
*  Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, leaving a populace unable to defend itself against the Gestapo and SS.  Hundreds of thousands died as a result. 
 
 
* China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
*  Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
* Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. The total dead are said to be 2-3 million
 
 
* Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1-2 million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
*  Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million at a bare minimum.
 
* Gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results:
 
Australia-wide, homicides went up 3.2 percent
 
Australia-wide, assaults went up 8.6 percent
 
Australia-wide, armed robberies went up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)
 
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns.
 
It will never happen here? I bet the Aussies said that too.
 
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady DECREASE in armed robbery with firearms, that changed drastically upward in the first  year after gun confiscation...since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
 
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety  has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
 
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
 
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
 
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late.
 
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind him of this history lesson.
 
With Guns...........We Are "Citizens".
Without Them........We Are "Subjects".
 
During W.W.II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED.
 
Note: Admiral Yamamoto who crafted the attack on Pearl Harbor had attended Harvard University 1919-1921 & was Naval Attaché to the U. S. 1925-28. Most of our Navy was destroyed at Pearl Harbor and our Army had been deprived of funding and was ill prepared to defend the country.
 
It was reported that when asked why Japan did not follow up the Pearl Harbor attack with an invasion of the U. S. Mainland, his reply was that he had lived in the U. S. and knew that almost all households had guns.
 
 
If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to all your friends.


http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm

[MikeCoin]

follow the uk and bad them all

[Spendulus]

.....
 
If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to all your friends.


http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm

It's actually amazing that we are still having this debate.  Given that the 2nd amendment guarantees the right, yet everyone knows that the left wants to find snarky ways around it, and does not care about constitutional rights.

At the core, the issue is not gun rights but the simple rule of law, or not.

[BADecker]

A Little Gun History Lesson


 
*  In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.  This doesn't include the 30 million 'Uncle Joe' starved to death in the Ukraine.
 
 
*  In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
*  Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, leaving a populace unable to defend itself against the Gestapo and SS.  Hundreds of thousands died as a result. 
 
 
* China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
*  Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
* Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. The total dead are said to be 2-3 million
 
 
* Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1-2 million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
*  Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million at a bare minimum.
 
* Gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results:
 
Australia-wide, homicides went up 3.2 percent
 
Australia-wide, assaults went up 8.6 percent
 
Australia-wide, armed robberies went up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)
 
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns.
 
It will never happen here? I bet the Aussies said that too.
 
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady DECREASE in armed robbery with firearms, that changed drastically upward in the first  year after gun confiscation...since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
 
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety  has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
 
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
 
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
 
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late.
 
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind him of this history lesson.
 
With Guns...........We Are "Citizens".
Without Them........We Are "Subjects".
 
During W.W.II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED.
 
Note: Admiral Yamamoto who crafted the attack on Pearl Harbor had attended Harvard University 1919-1921 & was Naval Attaché to the U. S. 1925-28. Most of our Navy was destroyed at Pearl Harbor and our Army had been deprived of funding and was ill prepared to defend the country.
 
It was reported that when asked why Japan did not follow up the Pearl Harbor attack with an invasion of the U. S. Mainland, his reply was that he had lived in the U. S. and knew that almost all households had guns.
 
 
If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to all your friends.


http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm

Great statistics. Thank you.

I have read that in the 1900s approximately 200 million people were "exterminated," worldwide, by their own governments. For whatever reasons, these people were not able to protect themselves from their own government. I'm not going to dig up links. Anybody can research it if they are interested.

While the gun issue may be important in all this extermination, the real issue is that, it is often the governments that do it to their own people. These are governments we are talking about here. And this brings us to an irony in America.

In America, it isn't government doing the exterminating of its own people. Rather, it is the common people doing the exterminating. Without getting into picky details, over the 1900s the common people in America exterminated approximately 50 million of their own citizens. How did they do it? By intentionally aborting their baby children.

The only saving factor for Americans might be - and I don't have a clue as to the statistics on this - that there are probably many other nations doing abortions, as well. Some of them may even be worse than America, except if you start talking about America as the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[erikalui]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

[Spendulus]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

Is it difficult to get a gun license in India?  Any different for man or woman?

Is a license for one particular gun, or any that you want?

[TheButterZone]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day.  

Woman: "May I defend myself against your gender, sir?"
Man: "Not without first paying a bribe."

[subSTRATA]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

everyone, male and female, should need a license, as well as a background check and a mental health assessment before being allowed to purchase a firearm for whatever means.

[erikalui]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

Is it difficult to get a gun license in India?  Any different for man or woman?

Is a license for one particular gun, or any that you want?

No. But you need to have a valid reason to get a gun while some get it without any reason by just paying a bribe. Here in India, it's so unsafe for women that they need to get the license easily but they won't get one unless they pay a bribe or they are rich.

[TheButterZone]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

everyone, male and female, should need a license, as well as a background check and a mental health assessment before being allowed to purchase a firearm for whatever means.

While violent criminals are not impeded in the least by any of that, and love when their victims are disenfranchised out of their human right to self-defense.

[Spendulus]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

everyone, male and female, should need a license, as well as a background check and a mental health assessment before being allowed to purchase a firearm for whatever means.

Ah...

Then what are we to do?  Have Jews do the mental health assessment on Muslims, and Muslims do the mental health assessment on Jews? 

But I agree with the license and background check, at least to a degree.  In the US these are pretty reasonable.

[miki77miki]

Basic backround checks, allow people to carry weapons openly and concealed.

[TheButterZone]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day.  

everyone, male and female, should need a license, as well as a background check and a mental health assessment before being allowed to purchase a firearm for whatever means.

Ah...

Then what are we to do?  Have Jews do the mental health assessment on Muslims, and Muslims do the mental health assessment on Jews?  

But I agree with the license and background check, at least to a degree.  In the US these are pretty reasonable.

How are "false positives" and "system errors/downtime" and "disqualified because you were a victimless criminal many years ago" and taxes/bribes to exercise the fundamental human right pretty reasonable? Armed criminals aren't going to wait for either of the former to be resolved (too often requiring thousands of dollars to bring a federal civil rights lawsuit through the exhaustion of appeals with no guarantee of ultimate success), or you to be able to afford the latter taxes/bribes in addition to the huge cost of a decent tool, so you can legally defend yourself with it.

[tvbcof]

Basic backround checks, allow people to carry weapons openly and concealed.

I'm from a fiercely pro-2nd area and I've almost never seen anyone open carry.  It makes one look like a jackass and that has been the case for at least as long as I've been around.  I do 'open carry' on my own property from time to time.  Only when I need to go check the driveway to see why the alarm went off in the middle of the night, or at certain times of the year when there are a lot of bears around.

I hate to say it, but basic background checks make reasonable sense.  As far as I can tell they are already in place...I have to have one run every time I buy a firearm.  It doesn't break my heart if ex-cons (violent ones) cannot legally get a gun, but the flip side is that potential for abuse is a clear danger.

I'm highly negative about 'mental health assessments' for anything, and especially not for gun ownership.  The main reason is that one can hardly find a more fucked up and nutzo group of 'professional' than those in the mental health profession and they are the last people I'd call on to assess mental health of others.  I will bet that within a matter of a few years I would be considered some sort of a 'threat' simply on the basis of my calling bullshit on the various fairly obvious psy-ops that the government is undertaking.  e.g., the Sandy Hook hoax and in terms of 'active shooter' events, pretty much most of the rest since that time.

I would like to see some little thing such as the 'gunshow loophole' (if it even exists) tied up, but a poison pill inserted.  Specifically, something like any time more than 1% of the gun owner's list is rendered for the purposes of gun confiscation, the entire law and every other law which touches on the 2nd becomes null and void and the gun ownership list must be destroyed.

[bryant.coleman]

In India, all girls need to get a license to own guns to protect themselves. Men here are getting cruel day by day. 

In a country where 50% of the people defecate in the open, just because they can't afford to build toilets, you are suggesting that 650 million people should purchase fire-arms? The total expenses for owning a cheap fire-arm in India can run in to more than $1,500, including the purchase price, license fee and taxes. I don't think that too many females will be able to afford them.