BADecker
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February 03, 2016, 02:37:06 AM |
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Do watermelons shoot back?  |
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"This isn't the kind of software where we can leave so many unresolved bugs that we need a tracker for them." -- Satoshi
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Moloch
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February 03, 2016, 03:05:45 AM |
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Do watermelons shoot back?  Yes, watch the f'ing video! Poor girl got pounded right in the face |
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mOgliE
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February 03, 2016, 08:27:15 AM |
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Which make me come back to my original point.... Where is Michael Moore lying?
It seems he's perfectly right no?
And I'm seeing a HUGE problem with the fact that more or less anyone can sell firearms and bullets to more or less anybody Oo
What is the huge problem other than you knee jerk conditioning to associate guns with violence? Do you think that way every time you see a knife or do you think ham sandwich? Just because you have never had a ham sandwich doesn't make the knife only for violence. I'm no longer arguing with you dude, you're just ignoring the parts of my speech that are troublesome for you. Wanna know what I think is a problem? I think there is a huge correlation between gun freedom and the incredible high violent crimes rate of your country. And I see no really good point in gun liberty as you're not protected from anything, neither banks nor rapes. Again I brought to you stats making those points. No. Not unless you can try to articulate logical arguments better than has been evident so for. Stating "I think" or "I see" is not evidence, and what "stats you have brought" seem to have had their horses shot out from under them. My stats were good. The only thing you found that was "flawed" was the fact that Australia also had gun control which I was not aware of. Still 26/28 countries in Europe have less rape than USA and all of them have less violent crimes. If you don't see a corelation between those facts I don't see what I can do for you... |
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mOgliE
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February 03, 2016, 08:36:57 AM |
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Which make me come back to my original point.... Where is Michael Moore lying?
It seems he's perfectly right no?
And I'm seeing a HUGE problem with the fact that more or less anyone can sell firearms and bullets to more or less anybody Oo
What is the huge problem other than you knee jerk conditioning to associate guns with violence? Do you think that way every time you see a knife or do you think ham sandwich? Just because you have never had a ham sandwich doesn't make the knife only for violence. I'm no longer arguing with you dude, you're just ignoring the parts of my speech that are troublesome for you. Wanna know what I think is a problem? I think there is a huge correlation between gun freedom and the incredible high violent crimes rate of your country. And I see no really good point in gun liberty as you're not protected from anything, neither banks nor rapes. Again I brought to you stats making those points. You were never debating me, you were just stringing together a bunch of logical fallacies and opinions. You are just mad because I dissected each and every one of them and proved how full of shit you are using the science of language - logic. You should learn it. Who the fuck are you some cheese munching Frenchman thousands of miles away in his own personal French Caliphate to tell Americans that they get no protection from guns just because you object to them? BTW the premise behind "your stats" was flawed, and I explained in detail why in previous posts even if you are too willfully ignorant to read it. Damn how can I be more precise than that... My claim was that gun control helps to prevent violent crimes and that gun freedom doesn't help to fight crimes. My evidence is that 28/28 EU nation have less violent crimes than USA, and the vast majority (26/28) have less rapes. Show me the "logical fallacy" here. And I'm trying to debate with you but you don't give a fuck about my arguments and don't explain yours. I'm still waiting for your evidence that USA is "incredibly has more diversity than EU". Who am I? Well, I don't know, maybe just a Bitcointalk user who came on a thread called "what's your OPINION on gun control" and who decided to share his OPINION on gun control and is supporting his claim with statistical proofs that EU countries are less violents than USA and BELIEVE it's linked to gun control. You want an absolute proof? That's impossible! The only way to actually prove it would be to instaure gun control in half of the USA and to see if it changes anything... |
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valta4065
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February 03, 2016, 09:09:39 AM |
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It seems rather obvious that gun control helps the society to be safer. Otherwise why would the whole EU have much less violent crimes?
On the other hand, from a personnal perspective, I like to have the right to defend myself. Not sure I would give my guns, even if I understand that it would make the whole society a bit safer. It's all a question of what you're ready to do for the others ^^
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TECSHARE
In memoriam
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First Exclusion Ever
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February 03, 2016, 09:18:35 AM |
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Which make me come back to my original point.... Where is Michael Moore lying?
It seems he's perfectly right no?
And I'm seeing a HUGE problem with the fact that more or less anyone can sell firearms and bullets to more or less anybody Oo
What is the huge problem other than you knee jerk conditioning to associate guns with violence? Do you think that way every time you see a knife or do you think ham sandwich? Just because you have never had a ham sandwich doesn't make the knife only for violence. I'm no longer arguing with you dude, you're just ignoring the parts of my speech that are troublesome for you. Wanna know what I think is a problem? I think there is a huge correlation between gun freedom and the incredible high violent crimes rate of your country. And I see no really good point in gun liberty as you're not protected from anything, neither banks nor rapes. Again I brought to you stats making those points. You were never debating me, you were just stringing together a bunch of logical fallacies and opinions. You are just mad because I dissected each and every one of them and proved how full of shit you are using the science of language - logic. You should learn it. Who the fuck are you some cheese munching Frenchman thousands of miles away in his own personal French Caliphate to tell Americans that they get no protection from guns just because you object to them? BTW the premise behind "your stats" was flawed, and I explained in detail why in previous posts even if you are too willfully ignorant to read it. Damn how can I be more precise than that... My claim was that gun control helps to prevent violent crimes and that gun freedom doesn't help to fight crimes. My evidence is that 28/28 EU nation have less violent crimes than USA, and the vast majority (26/28) have less rapes. Show me the "logical fallacy" here. And I'm trying to debate with you but you don't give a fuck about my arguments and don't explain yours. I'm still waiting for your evidence that USA is "incredibly has more diversity than EU". Who am I? Well, I don't know, maybe just a Bitcointalk user who came on a thread called "what's your OPINION on gun control" and who decided to share his OPINION on gun control and is supporting his claim with statistical proofs that EU countries are less violents than USA and BELIEVE it's linked to gun control. You want an absolute proof? That's impossible! The only way to actually prove it would be to instaure gun control in half of the USA and to see if it changes anything... Does gun control help prevent violent crimes or doesn't it? Make up your mind. You don't sound very precise at all. I already emboldened and numbered your logical fallacies and linked descriptions, I am not sure how much more clear I could make that part. If your premise that guns do not prevent violence is true then Australia, Belgium, and Sweden wouldn't have higher rape stats considering their strict gun control no? These countries crumble your premise that guns do not prevent violence. Additionally people tend to not report ATTEMPTED crimes that failed due to simply brandishing a firearm in self defense, so it is quite likely the statistics of defensive use of firearms are very underestimated. Just because I expect you to follow the rules of logic and support your opinion s with fact doesn't mean I am demanding "absolute proof", this is just more of your extremism showing. If its not your way it must be the exact polar opposite extreme! Merde! It seems rather obvious that gun control helps the society to be safer. Otherwise why would the whole EU have much less violent crimes?
On the other hand, from a personnal perspective, I like to have the right to defend myself. Not sure I would give my guns, even if I understand that it would make the whole society a bit safer. It's all a question of what you're ready to do for the others ^^
Not obvious at all. Gun statistics are notoriously manipulated at every opportunity. Methods of collection and definitions of crimes are not universal internationally. So those stats mean a lot less than you think, furthermore if you check the latest US stats the overall crime rates continue to fall as the gun ownership rate goes up. Interesting how that works isn't it? If you want to be disarmed and risk your own personal safety to preserve the safety of others, you are perfectly free to do so. No one will ever make you use a gun unless you want a job as a cop, or in the military. You have the right to do so for yourself, but to force other people to risk their own safety for some lofty poorly calculated statistically increased concept of safety is fundamentally against their human rights to self defense. Forcing other people to actually be vulnerable so you can feel safe is fundamentally sick. If you are afraid of gun owners committing crimes you too have the right to own a gun to defend yourself, but no one is making you. Why does every one else need to be less free to make you feel safe? |
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mOgliE
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February 03, 2016, 12:07:25 PM |
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Does gun control help prevent violent crimes or doesn't it? Make up your mind. You don't sound very precise at all. I already emboldened and numbered your logical fallacies and linked descriptions, I am not sure how much more clear I could make that part. If your premise that guns do not prevent violence is true then Australia, Belgium, and Sweden wouldn't have higher rape stats considering their strict gun control no? These countries crumble your premise that guns do not prevent violence. Additionally people tend to not report ATTEMPTED crimes that failed due to simply brandishing a firearm in self defense, so it is quite likely the statistics of defensive use of firearms are very underestimated. Just because I expect you to follow the rules of logic and support your opinion s with fact doesn't mean I am demanding "absolute proof", this is just more of your extremism showing. If its not your way it must be the exact polar opposite extreme! Merde!
Well, we agree on something. The vast majority of EU countries are less violent than USA. Where do you think it comes from then? I claim that gun control is part of the explanation, simply because the absence of guns diminishes the potential threat of each citizen. And as we're talking about social science, the questions are about statistical proofs. It's not because 2 countries in EU have higher rapes rate that you can just forget the 28/28 countries with less violent crimes and 26/28 with less rape rates. "Just because I expect you to follow the rules of logic and support your opinion s with fact doesn't mean I am demanding "absolute proof"" Well I did, I supported my claims with what I consider proofs. And you can't refute those arguments so you just say they're "not enough" well they might not be enough for you but they are for me. |
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valta4065
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February 03, 2016, 01:01:45 PM |
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Does gun control help prevent violent crimes or doesn't it? Make up your mind. You don't sound very precise at all. I already emboldened and numbered your logical fallacies and linked descriptions, I am not sure how much more clear I could make that part. If your premise that guns do not prevent violence is true then Australia, Belgium, and Sweden wouldn't have higher rape stats considering their strict gun control no? These countries crumble your premise that guns do not prevent violence. Additionally people tend to not report ATTEMPTED crimes that failed due to simply brandishing a firearm in self defense, so it is quite likely the statistics of defensive use of firearms are very underestimated. Just because I expect you to follow the rules of logic and support your opinion s with fact doesn't mean I am demanding "absolute proof", this is just more of your extremism showing. If its not your way it must be the exact polar opposite extreme! Merde!
Well, we agree on something. The vast majority of EU countries are less violent than USA. Where do you think it comes from then? I claim that gun control is part of the explanation, simply because the absence of guns diminishes the potential threat of each citizen. And as we're talking about social science, the questions are about statistical proofs. It's not because 2 countries in EU have higher rapes rate that you can just forget the 28/28 countries with less violent crimes and 26/28 with less rape rates. "Just because I expect you to follow the rules of logic and support your opinion s with fact doesn't mean I am demanding "absolute proof"" Well I did, I supported my claims with what I consider proofs. And you can't refute those arguments so you just say they're "not enough" well they might not be enough for you but they are for me. I think that what Tecshare explains it's that we should all be free to chose. Any kind of government can be corrupted or just be wrong. Nothing should be forbidden (well at least nothing that doesn't hurt directly someone else). Maybe it's linked, I think it is. But as you say yourself it's not possible to prove it. So why forcing everyone to let their guns at the police station if you're not sure it will have a positive impact? |
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Spendulus
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Activity: 2898
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February 03, 2016, 01:12:30 PM |
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Which make me come back to my original point.... Where is Michael Moore lying?
It seems he's perfectly right no?
And I'm seeing a HUGE problem with the fact that more or less anyone can sell firearms and bullets to more or less anybody Oo
What is the huge problem other than you knee jerk conditioning to associate guns with violence? Do you think that way every time you see a knife or do you think ham sandwich? Just because you have never had a ham sandwich doesn't make the knife only for violence. I'm no longer arguing with you dude, you're just ignoring the parts of my speech that are troublesome for you. Wanna know what I think is a problem? I think there is a huge correlation between gun freedom and the incredible high violent crimes rate of your country. And I see no really good point in gun liberty as you're not protected from anything, neither banks nor rapes. Again I brought to you stats making those points. You were never debating me, you were just stringing together a bunch of logical fallacies and opinions. You are just mad because I dissected each and every one of them and proved how full of shit you are using the science of language - logic. You should learn it. Who the fuck are you some cheese munching Frenchman thousands of miles away in his own personal French Caliphate to tell Americans that they get no protection from guns just because you object to them? BTW the premise behind "your stats" was flawed, and I explained in detail why in previous posts even if you are too willfully ignorant to read it. Damn how can I be more precise than that... My claim was that gun control helps to prevent violent crimes and that gun freedom doesn't help to fight crimes. My evidence is that 28/28 EU nation have less violent crimes than USA, and the vast majority (26/28) have less rapes. Show me the "logical fallacy" here. And I'm trying to debate with you but you don't give a fuck about my arguments and don't explain yours. I'm still waiting for your evidence that USA is "incredibly has more diversity than EU". Who am I? Well, I don't know, maybe just a Bitcointalk user who came on a thread called "what's your OPINION on gun control" and who decided to share his OPINION on gun control and is supporting his claim with statistical proofs that EU countries are less violents than USA and BELIEVE it's linked to gun control. You want an absolute proof? That's impossible! The only way to actually prove it would be to instaure gun control in half of the USA and to see if it changes anything...You're correct in one small part, the OP is asking for opinions. But the only way to actually prove this out would be to make guns reasonably available to Europe and see if it changes anything... |
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valta4065
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February 03, 2016, 01:22:22 PM |
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Which make me come back to my original point.... Where is Michael Moore lying?
It seems he's perfectly right no?
And I'm seeing a HUGE problem with the fact that more or less anyone can sell firearms and bullets to more or less anybody Oo
What is the huge problem other than you knee jerk conditioning to associate guns with violence? Do you think that way every time you see a knife or do you think ham sandwich? Just because you have never had a ham sandwich doesn't make the knife only for violence. I'm no longer arguing with you dude, you're just ignoring the parts of my speech that are troublesome for you. Wanna know what I think is a problem? I think there is a huge correlation between gun freedom and the incredible high violent crimes rate of your country. And I see no really good point in gun liberty as you're not protected from anything, neither banks nor rapes. Again I brought to you stats making those points. You were never debating me, you were just stringing together a bunch of logical fallacies and opinions. You are just mad because I dissected each and every one of them and proved how full of shit you are using the science of language - logic. You should learn it. Who the fuck are you some cheese munching Frenchman thousands of miles away in his own personal French Caliphate to tell Americans that they get no protection from guns just because you object to them? BTW the premise behind "your stats" was flawed, and I explained in detail why in previous posts even if you are too willfully ignorant to read it. Damn how can I be more precise than that... My claim was that gun control helps to prevent violent crimes and that gun freedom doesn't help to fight crimes. My evidence is that 28/28 EU nation have less violent crimes than USA, and the vast majority (26/28) have less rapes. Show me the "logical fallacy" here. And I'm trying to debate with you but you don't give a fuck about my arguments and don't explain yours. I'm still waiting for your evidence that USA is "incredibly has more diversity than EU". Who am I? Well, I don't know, maybe just a Bitcointalk user who came on a thread called "what's your OPINION on gun control" and who decided to share his OPINION on gun control and is supporting his claim with statistical proofs that EU countries are less violents than USA and BELIEVE it's linked to gun control. You want an absolute proof? That's impossible! The only way to actually prove it would be to instaure gun control in half of the USA and to see if it changes anything...You're correct in one small part, the OP is asking for opinions. But the only way to actually prove this out would be to make guns reasonably available to Europe and see if it changes anything... Or control them in a part of the USA. Anyway I don't think we should. America and EU are just too different. It's not really possible to compare them. We both have our way of life, it doesn't mean one is superior to the other. |
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Moloch
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February 03, 2016, 06:02:18 PM |
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Gun control does absolutely nothing to reduce crime...
The numbers you see are just statistical manipulation, I'll explain...
You see people compare numbers like, "Gun control laws vs gun deaths"... this is a poorly(?) chosen statistic...
Why compare "gun deaths"? Because "gun deaths" includes things like suicides, accidental shootings, etc... very different from "gun murders"...
If you compare the gun control laws of a country vs violent crimes, you will see that gun laws do nothing to stop violent crimes... gun laws only reduce "gun deaths" (mostly suicides by gunshot get reduced)
In places where guns are illegal, people resort to stabbing weapons like knives for their violence (UK is a great example)
UK has now make knives illegal because those became the weapon of choice since guns were already illegal...
Do you know what that will do? NOTHING!... people will murder each other with baseball bats next... gun laws do not stop violence!
Nobody wants to see baseball bats become illegal! Watch that first step, it's a slippery slope!
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mOgliE
Legendary
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Activity: 1344
Merit: 1251
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February 03, 2016, 06:12:22 PM |
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Gun control does absolutely nothing to reduce crime...
The numbers you see are just statistical manipulation, I'll explain...
You see people compare numbers like, "Gun control laws vs gun deaths"... this is a poorly(?) chosen statistic...
Why compare "gun deaths"? Because "gun deaths" includes things like suicides, accidental shootings, etc... very different from "gun murders"...
If you compare the gun control laws of a country vs violent crimes, you will see that gun laws do nothing to stop violent crimes... gun laws only reduce "gun deaths" (mostly suicides by gunshot get reduced)
In places where guns are illegal, people resort to stabbing weapons like knives for their violence (UK is a great example)
UK has now make knives illegal because those became the weapon of choice since guns were already illegal...
Do you know what that will do? NOTHING!... people will murder each other with baseball bats next... gun laws do not stop violence!
Nobody wants to see baseball bats become illegal! Watch that first step, it's a slippery slope!
Hmm... We were not comparing gun deaths but violent crime rates. And they were much higher in the USA than in European countries where strict gun control is applied. Where you're right though it's that statistical correlation is not a proof. But I'm not giving a proof. As I said it's impossible to prove it unless doing some kind of A/B testing on a part of the population xD It's just a statistical element that I think might be correlated with gun control. But again you can argue that violent crimes rates are different for other reasons. I just don't exactly see other reasons explaining such a difference, and especially not the "USA is more diversified" bullshit of Tecshare which is not only insulting for the whole EU but also based on absolutely nothing as far as I can see. |
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Moloch
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February 03, 2016, 06:17:44 PM |
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Hmm... We were not comparing gun deaths but violent crime rates. And they were much higher in the USA than in European countries where strict gun control is applied.
Like how Violent Crime increased in the UK as a direct result of banning guns? How do you explain this one?  |
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mOgliE
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February 03, 2016, 06:34:46 PM |
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Hmm... We were not comparing gun deaths but violent crime rates. And they were much higher in the USA than in European countries where strict gun control is applied.
Like how Violent Crime increased in the UK as a direct result of banning guns? How do you explain this one? Yes rather easily. First: the rise seems to not be the direct consequence from gun ban. If you look red and blue curves, they're not at all symmetrical. Seems like they're was an upper trend: the violent crimes rate was already levelling up and the rise seems to be independent from gun licenses. Second: but if they're independent that means gun control is not an efficient way of lowering violent crime rates. Of course what I'm going to say is hypothetical, that's a good explanation I think but there can be no proof of my reasoning. If you look at the evolution of the rates, you can see there is first no impact of gun control on violent crime rates, but then: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/United-Kingdom/Crime/Violent-crimeYou see that the violent crime rates significantly decreases year after year. My explanation (which is, again, hypothetical) would be that the rates diminish with the number of firearms actually in circulation. It's not because the government creates gun control that the population will immediately gives the guns to the police. It takes time for guns to finish in the hand of the police or to be forgotten somewhere or even thrown out. But as nobody sells guns, in the end the number of guns owned by the population can only decreases. Which is why the violent crime rates also decrease, but with some inertia. Again, it's all hypothetical but I find this explanation rather logical and realist. |
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Moloch
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February 03, 2016, 07:01:51 PM |
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How do you explain Vermont? The state with the fewest gun laws (a child can carry a concealed handgun without a permit), has the lowest violent crime rate per capita... The obvious conclusion is that when half the citizens are walking around with a concealed handgun, the criminals are scared... Nobody wants to rob a store where multiple customers will defend the owner, that's suicide... Here is what happens when people try to rob an establishment with armed customers: Elderly Man Shoots Robbers at Internet CafeThis is what reduces violent crime, not gun laws... |
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TheButterZone
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RIP Mommy
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February 03, 2016, 07:17:20 PM |
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Or control them in a part of the USA.
Look at the highest violent crime metropolitan areas of the USA; there, the highest level of "gun control" short of actually going door to door, person to person, doing warrant-less searches and putting bullets in the head of anyone in mere possession of a gun, irregardless if man, woman, child, innocent, or guilty of a victimful crime. |
Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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Moloch
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February 03, 2016, 07:52:11 PM |
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Why do you think so many mass shootings occur at a school, or other "gun free zone"?
The answer is that the crazy person knows it will be less likely that anyone will shoot back...
That's the sad reality... if they shoot up a school, they can kill 50 people before anyone stops them... if they tried that crap in the hood, they'd get killed before they got to 10...
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Schleicher
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February 03, 2016, 11:27:14 PM |
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Why do you think so many mass shootings occur at a school, or other "gun free zone"?
The answer is that the crazy person knows it will be less likely that anyone will shoot back...
No, that's probably not the reason. They choose the schools because they hate the people there. |
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Schleicher
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February 04, 2016, 12:04:22 AM |
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That's easy to explain: the police changed the counting method.  |
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Spendulus
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February 04, 2016, 02:37:17 AM |
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That's easy to explain: the police changed the counting method. I am so glad that we are counting less now. Maybe we could change the rules again, and lower the counts even further? It would be so nice to live in a nice world where guns meant less crime. Isn't this true, if we make it seem like it's true? |
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