Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[Xian01]

how many years will BFL executives spend in prison? Zero

If Sonny, at least, doesn't go back in the slammer for his shenanigans while at Butterfly Labs, then the entire legal system will have failed us IMO.

A lot more of the BFL staff deserve prison time, but my gut is telling me this settlement is going to be totally softball with the Butterfly Labs management getting away without penalties.

I would love to be wrong and have the opportunity to send some post-cards to Josh Zerlan in jail.

[nwfella]

how many years will BFL executives spend in prison? Zero

If Sonny, at least, doesn't go back in the slammer for his shenanigans while at Butterfly Labs, then the entire legal system will have failed us IMO. (get ready to be disappointed)

A lot more of the BFL staff deserve prison time, but my gut is telling me this settlement is going to be totally softball with the Butterfly Labs management getting away without penalties. (our guts are in agreement)

I would love to be wrong and have the opportunity to send some post-cards to Josh Zerlan in jail. (more likely he'll be sending us postcards from Aruba I'm afraid :/)

I keep all my useless BFL hardware in plain site as a constant reminder to never spend BTC on asic pre-orders.

[Syke]

But some of them got their money back and PP stopped allowing payments to them. Try that with Bitcoin.

Been there, done that. I've gotten bitcoin refunds many times from many places. Even some BFL customers got bitcoin refunds.

Do you never use cash? Cash is just as irreversible as bitcoin. Use cash responsibly. Use bitcoin responsibly.

[QuestionAuthority]

But some of them got their money back and PP stopped allowing payments to them. Try that with Bitcoin.

Been there, done that. I've gotten bitcoin refunds many times from many places. Even some BFL customers got bitcoin refunds.

Do you never use cash? Cash is just as irreversible as bitcoin. Use cash responsibly. Use bitcoin responsibly.

No, actually I don't use cash to buy something in other states because I have no way of getting the money to them. I only use cash for small items where cash is more convenient, like for buying coffee. I want some sort of protection when buying costly items even from local large companies. I have used the fraud protection on a credit card to have Best Buy investigated for double charging my card. I got my money back and one of their employees got a jail cell.

There are other very good reasons to use credit cards for large purchases other than just fraud protection. Easy monthly reconciliation, budget tracking, establishing credit history for large loans, easy importing to accounting software like quicken and tax preparation software are all possible with credit/debit accounts. Fraud protection isn't even the best reason to use credit cards but it's a good reason.

[becoin]

I want some sort of protection when buying costly items even from local large companies. I have used the fraud protection on a credit card to have Best Buy investigated for double charging my card. I got my money back and one of their employees got a jail cell. 

You can build credit card like services on top of bitcoin, but you can't build bitcoin like services on top of fiat money. Got it?

[QuestionAuthority]

I want some sort of protection when buying costly items even from local large companies. I have used the fraud protection on a credit card to have Best Buy investigated for double charging my card. I got my money back and one of their employees got a jail cell. 

You can build credit card like services on top of bitcoin, but you can't build bitcoin like services on top of fiat money. Got it?

I'm not talking about fiat. I've already said, I don't use fiat. In fact, I don't expect fiat to survive beyond the next two decades. Those types of services are already being researched using a blockchain design. They won't have anything to do with Bitcoin but they will have the most useful features of Bitcoin. Many new information designs will likely use blockchain technology, not just value transfer.

http://blockchainstudies.org
http://insidebitcoins.com/news/visa-begins-blockchain-research-possible-future-integration/34358

[Syke]

I have used the fraud protection on a credit card to have Best Buy investigated for double charging my card. I got my money back and one of their employees got a jail cell.

If BestBuy accepted bitcoin that situation couldn't occur.

[QuestionAuthority]

I have used the fraud protection on a credit card to have Best Buy investigated for double charging my card. I got my money back and one of their employees got a jail cell.

If BestBuy accepted bitcoin that situation couldn't occur.

That's true but Bitcoin needs to work much faster before that happens. I doubt Best Buy is willing to do zero confirm transactions for a $2k TV.

[Syke]

That's true but Bitcoin needs to work much faster before that happens. I doubt Best Buy is willing to do zero confirm transactions for a $2k TV.

Why not? They accept personal checks. Those are far easier to commit fraud with than double-spending bitcoin.

They can also use a service like BitPay for instant transactions.

[mrkubanftw]

That's true but Bitcoin needs to work much faster before that happens. I doubt Best Buy is willing to do zero confirm transactions for a $2k TV.

Why not? They accept personal checks. Those are far easier to commit fraud with than double-spending bitcoin.

They can also use a service like BitPay for instant transactions.

No they aren't. Checks are ran electronically these days my friend. The process is no different than a check card. If the funds are not there, they know it instantly.

[Syke]

No they aren't. Checks are ran electronically these days my friend. The process is no different than a check card. If the funds are not there, they know it instantly.

So? Checks can be forged, stolen, washed, etc. They're extremely unreliable.

[QuestionAuthority]

No they aren't. Checks are ran electronically these days my friend. The process is no different than a check card. If the funds are not there, they know it instantly.

So? Checks can be forged, stolen, washed, etc. They're extremely unreliable.

Best Buy doesn't accept personal checks, almost no one does anymore. How old are you anyway, grandpa? lol

[Gleb Gamow]

No they aren't. Checks are ran electronically these days my friend. The process is no different than a check card. If the funds are not there, they know it instantly.

So? Checks can be forged, stolen, washed, etc. They're extremely unreliable.

Best Buy doesn't accept personal checks, almost no one does anymore. How old are you anyway, grandpa? lol

Walmart still does. They take the check from you, put it through some scanner thingy which spits it back out in ~1 second, then the teller hands the check back to you along with the receipt. The entire process takes ~5 seconds. 10 seconds if the teller has an attitude. 15 seconds if the teller is a space cadet. 20 seconds if the teller is also a manger.

[QuestionAuthority]

No they aren't. Checks are ran electronically these days my friend. The process is no different than a check card. If the funds are not there, they know it instantly.

So? Checks can be forged, stolen, washed, etc. They're extremely unreliable.

Best Buy doesn't accept personal checks, almost no one does anymore. How old are you anyway, grandpa? lol

Walmart still does. They take the check from you, put it through some scanner thingy which spits it back out in ~1 second, then the teller hands the check back to you along with the receipt. The entire process takes ~5 seconds. 10 seconds if the teller has an attitude. 15 seconds if the teller is a space cadet. 20 seconds if the teller is also a manger.

That's not really a check Bruno. The scanner thingy reads the account number and instantly electronically debits your account. If you don't have money in the account the scan fails.

[Syke]

Best Buy doesn't accept personal checks, almost no one does anymore. How old are you anyway, grandpa? lol

Old and very wise to the ways of the world.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/help-topics/payment-options/pcmcat203400050003.c?id=pcmcat203400050003

• Personal checks, business checks, traveler's checks, cashier's checks

[QuestionAuthority]

Best Buy doesn't accept personal checks, almost no one does anymore. How old are you anyway, grandpa? lol

Old and very wise to the ways of the world.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/help-topics/payment-options/pcmcat203400050003.c?id=pcmcat203400050003

• Personal checks, business checks, traveler's checks, cashier's checks

Dude, you must be a dinosaur. First, travelers checks and cashiers checks are just other forms of cash. Business checks and personal checks are verified with banking register systems that make them no different than debit cards today. The old days way back when is over. They're not taking checks like you imagine from your youth where, as you put it, "checks can be forged, stolen and washed". That's almost impossible today with electronic verification. Almost no one except the smallest businesses take checks without verification. See Bruno's example above. What do you suppose that thingy is doing with the paper you hand them. lol

[dogie]

how many years will BFL executives spend in prison? Zero

If Sonny, at least, doesn't go back in the slammer for his shenanigans while at Butterfly Labs, then the entire legal system will have failed us IMO. (get ready to be disappointed)

A lot more of the BFL staff deserve prison time, but my gut is telling me this settlement is going to be totally softball with the Butterfly Labs management getting away without penalties. (our guts are in agreement)

I would love to be wrong and have the opportunity to send some post-cards to Josh Zerlan in jail. (more likely he'll be sending us postcards from Aruba I'm afraid :/)

I keep all my useless BFL hardware in plain site as a constant reminder to never spend BTC on asic pre-orders.

The industry will never support preorders again, I hope my work over the last 2 years has contributed to that.

[Searing]

how many years will BFL executives spend in prison? Zero

If Sonny, at least, doesn't go back in the slammer for his shenanigans while at Butterfly Labs, then the entire legal system will have failed us IMO. (get ready to be disappointed)

A lot more of the BFL staff deserve prison time, but my gut is telling me this settlement is going to be totally softball with the Butterfly Labs management getting away without penalties. (our guts are in agreement)

I would love to be wrong and have the opportunity to send some post-cards to Josh Zerlan in jail. (more likely he'll be sending us postcards from Aruba I'm afraid :/)

I keep all my useless BFL hardware in plain site as a constant reminder to never spend BTC on asic pre-orders.

The industry will never support preorders again, I hope my work over the last 2 years has contributed to that.

All evidence to the contrary or am I misinformed? I'm thinking Spondoolies Data Halls and such stuff ..still a pre-order racket imho...they are just now getting 'pre-order' newbie IPO money to build data halls first...same shtick imho

As to any home miners ..they will be like the SFARDS stuff too high priced lots of 100 just to wave the flag on their product so yeah you at least will see the 'prototype working' maybe so not a pre-order but getting one and roi'ing on such as a home miner will be about as likely as finding a unicorn and learning to ride it...possible I suppose but unlikely as a home miner

my 2 satoshi's worth (not that i know zip at one time i was a BFL kool aid drinker

[Syke]

That's almost impossible today with electronic verification.

Riiiiight.

http://www.stopcheckfraud.com/statistics.html

According to the 2013 Federal Reserve Payments Study:
* Checks (consumer and business) were the payment instrument with the highest average value of unauthorized transactions in 2012.

2015 AFP Payments Fraud and Control Survey findings show:
* Checks remain the payment type most vulnerable to fraud attacks.

“While the exciting and glamorous fraud topics today involve wire fraud, account takeovers, ID theft, and skimming, the results of the Association for Financial Professionals’ annual corporate fraud survey remind us that the most fraud vulnerable instrument available today is the paper check.”

http://www.relyco.com/blog/laser-check-printing/check-fraud-statistics-techniques-know/

* The FBI estimates that losses from check fraud total $18.7 billion annually.

[Gleb Gamow]

Goodbye, BFL.  No more mention on the premise's signage.  No more bitcoin mining burn-in trailer where Bruce Peterson used to steal bitcoins.  Sonny Vleisides best be able to show gainful employment to his probation officer, Courtney, otherwise he'll be back in the slammer quicker than when eventually found guilty of thief to the tune of millions of dollars via the now defunct Butterfly Labs, among other charges. HAHAHA