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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 386394 times)
scambutterflylabs
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October 27, 2013, 12:20:26 AM
 #2761

That would require having something to actually sue for.  Piss poor internet lawyers aside, a real lawyer would tell you that you have no case.

Is that why you stopped accepting PayPal and credit cards after you guys got your asses handed to you in all your disputes and chargebacks?  Because nobody had a legitimate case against you?  It would seem that every professional financial company disagrees with you which is why you have to do business in BTC only now.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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October 27, 2013, 01:24:49 AM
 #2762

Do research on the company and employees before you waste your money.

This.  It's amazing how many people don't take five minutes to Google before throwing tons of money at a company.
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October 27, 2013, 02:00:37 AM
 #2763

Quote
Because nothing illegal has happened.  There's nothing to "catch."

Just incompetence. Josh you ever going to ship my Jalapeno? I have to admit, I'm having fun digging you at the conferences. Did you catch my response to Bruno's question at C3?

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
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October 27, 2013, 02:09:48 AM
 #2764

I wonder what new disaster has befallen BFL that they sent out their distraction monkey to fling shit again.
scambutterflylabs
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October 27, 2013, 05:16:48 AM
 #2765

It applies to all businesses. Just because a business is bitcoin related does not put it above the law.
Not sure you actually read his post, or understand anything that is not insults.

Yes precisely.  BFL is selling hardware, not bitcoins.  Bitcoins are a grey area still, but selling actual physical products is not a grey area at all.  There is basic contract law governing sales in the United States.  You do not need a "paper" contract to be entitled to these protections.

When you walk into a store and buy something you don't need both parties to sign a paper contract to be protected under consumer protection laws.  They are automatic when a sale is made and BFL is violating many of these laws by not delivering products on time and refusing refunds when they do so.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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October 27, 2013, 05:49:04 AM
 #2766

I feel awful for all the people who got duped into buying into BFL. At least it served as a spectacular warning to everyone of the dangers of pre-ordering mining equipment.  Undecided
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October 27, 2013, 06:09:11 AM
 #2767

Quote
And... another ~1000 units chips ordered 8 to 10 months ago, shipped today.  1/3 1/100 of the entirety of KnC's shipment hash power ... in one day.


FTFTBLITBU



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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
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scambutterflylabs
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October 27, 2013, 07:09:15 AM
 #2768

I have posted a topic on how to file a FTC complaint against BFL on their illegal behavior regarding late shipments and refusing refunds.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=319522.msg3419162#msg3419162

This takes less than 10 minutes and I encourage EVERYONE who has had problems with BFL to fill it out.  The more complaints filed the faster they will investigate them and put a stop to this nonsense.  If my above posts did not show that this is illegal behavior by BFL then follow my guide on the FTC web site and you will see that it indeed is a federal trade violation and they can get in massive trouble for this.  It's illegal and that's why you don't see other businesses behaving this way.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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October 27, 2013, 09:09:02 AM
 #2769

I did buy from them as well. Reported was 500Ghz x3 +- 10% performance delivered.
Well, I got it now and it turns out to true. They're hashing nicely...

All in all I'm relatively happy with it.

And yes, I did ask for a refund which they said they will not give. And they also said all miners would be delivered within a month (from that date). Turned out to be true, and I took the gamble and staid...

Now everything is looking fine again!

So yes: no pre-order anymore unless from a little more established company.


Anyone wants to buy them from me? :-) They're hosted, so no need to worry about the power requirements and stuff.
TooDumbForBitcoin
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October 27, 2013, 02:15:54 PM
 #2770

Quote
All in all I'm relatively happy with it.
Anyone wants to buy them from me? :-)

That quote would make a nice banner ad for your vendor.

You don't say when your original order was or what you paid.  Until you provide those figures, we'll guess February 2013 and $60,000.

Your 1500Gh/s represents 0.0004 of the network today.
The network mined $900,000  today, which gives you $360.

Let's let difficulty increase 33% for each of the next eight 11 day periods.

Period one:  $4000 to you (or your buyer)
Period two:  $3000 to you (or your buyer)
Period three:  $2250 to you (or your buyer)
Period four:  $1750 to you (or your buyer)
Period five:  $1350 to you (or your buyer)
Period six:  $1050 to you (or your buyer)
Period seven:  $800 to you (or your buyer)
Period eight:  $600 to you (or your buyer)

So $15,000 to you or your buyer in the next three months, and $2000 in the three months after that, and $300 in the three months  after that and dust after that. 

So you're offering a machine that will print $18,000, minus the electricity.  We'll leave BTC upvalue out of it, cause the buyer can buy BTC today and realize that profit.

What's a good price today for what you paid $60,000 for 8 months ago? How about $15,000?  $12,000?  $9,000? 

Your vendor is asking $15,000 for the same product, delivered some time after March, 2014.  That product will make about $2000 for its buyer.

BTW, if your vendor had delivered in February, 2013, when you presumably ordered, you would have mined BTC at 100 times the rate your machine mines now.

Finally, here is the moment when the BLITBU (or his sychophant) shows up, not to answer customer questions, or explain his company's delays, or aplogize for past delays, but to say, ".... if we had done what we said we'd do, all our customers would be just as screwed as they are now, which means we're a good company for delaying 8 months and more".

Last word:  You are to be commended for offering a product in hand for sale, and not a preorder deal.

 



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veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
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baralhao
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October 28, 2013, 07:33:12 PM
 #2771

Thanks for the heads up.. Its because of people like you, the world is a better place  Grin
+1
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October 29, 2013, 01:31:47 AM
 #2772

Re: Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action

I would definitely file it as a USD transaction.

I also posted this thread on Reddit and it also took off.  There have been at least dozens (or more) of confirmed trade violation complaints filed against BFL this weekend.

I imagine Josh will be getting a call from the FTC this week and I think he knows it.  He's gone completely silent in this thread and I imagine he's going to be in a lot of trouble.

If I were him I would move my operation out of the US to somewhere that doesn't have consumer protection laws against his widescale illegal activity regarding sales transactions and refunds.  As someone pointed out he may have to find somewhere like Somalia to operate like this without men in black showing up at his doorstep because you can't do business like this in virtually any western country.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1pat5e/how_to_file_a_ftc_complaint_against_bfls_illegal/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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October 29, 2013, 06:34:19 AM
 #2773

Re:  YES, you can get a REFUND from BFL


I've been trying to help my friend through this process, and it has hit a problem I haven't seen before. Paypal sided with my friend and said that BFL needed to refund the money. BFL has marked his order as cancelled in their system. Now Paypal tried to get the money back to send to my friend, but there was no money in the account they were drawing on. This is the letter that Paypal sent to my friend.

Quote
Hello *** ******,

The refund sent by Sonny Vleisides (office@butterflylabs.com) did not clear from the sender's bank. You have not received funds for this payment in your PayPal account.

Please contact Sonny Vleisides regarding this refund.




-----------------------------------
Refund details:
-----------------------------------


Amount: $****** USD
Sender: Sonny Vleisides
Sender's email: office@butterflylabs.com
Transaction ID: ********
Transaction date: Oct 11, 2013

Anyone have any ideas on where to go from here? He kind of feel like this is like issuing a bad check and thinks that there might be some kind of attorney general he could go to.

Just as an update to this, sometime last week, the account got money in it and my friend was paid. He said that paypal just kept hitting the account (with the subsequent NSF charges, I'm sure) until there was money there.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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October 29, 2013, 05:41:38 PM
 #2774

someone sent BFL a million bucks...

http://kryptonews.com/?p=68

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October 29, 2013, 05:56:05 PM
 #2775

someone sent BFL a million bucks...

http://kryptonews.com/?p=68


Definitively bad day for semeone when he realizes whats going on.

Probably 20+ Monarchs
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October 29, 2013, 07:26:43 PM
 #2776

someone sent BFL a million bucks...

http://kryptonews.com/?p=68


Definitively bad day for semeone when he realizes whats going on.

Probably 20+ Monarchs

20+ Monarchs ?

At $4,680.00/Monarch, 1 Million ==> ~ 213 Monarch without bulk price...

O_o'...

At 600GH/s per Monarch, we are talking about nearly (maybe much more) 128 TH/s...insane...
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October 29, 2013, 09:03:52 PM
 #2777

someone sent BFL a million bucks...

http://kryptonews.com/?p=68




LOL! Someone's fucked.
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October 29, 2013, 09:22:16 PM
 #2778

someone sent BFL a million bucks...

http://kryptonews.com/?p=68


Definitively bad day for semeone when he realizes whats going on.

Probably 20+ Monarchs

Someone? How about BFL just took the BTC they mined with your equipment and cashed out.

          WTF!     Don't Click Here              
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October 29, 2013, 10:01:21 PM
 #2779

someone sent BFL a million bucks...

http://kryptonews.com/?p=68


Definitively bad day for semeone when he realizes whats going on.

Probably 20+ Monarchs

Someone? How about BFL just took the BTC they mined with your equipment and cashed out.
That would be a stupid move.. Unless they are hiring lots of lawyers Cheesy
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October 30, 2013, 12:53:50 AM
 #2780


Josh, what the hell?  You guys still have $500 of my money for an 'upgrade' that no longer exists, and yet here you are defending your company's actions in the most uncalled for manner. 

Do your bit for customer service and refund.

Joshie, please tell, how does BFL Intend to resolve such issues.

A) Run off with the guys money.
B) Supply a free miner to attach the upgrade to.
C) Refund

Its a simple question, why don't you answer the guy..  Tongue

They offered me a 'credit' onto my account for my next order.  However, I pointed out that I do not wish to have a 'credit' or indeed order from them again, and they went silent.

No matter, I have my banks fraud team on the case.

I have it in writing that you have received my money, BFL.  I also have it in writing that you were going to either process me a refund in BTC or bank transfer.  Then, another of your 'colleagues' changed their mind.

Companies don't act the way BFL do.  Fraudsters, however....

You may have a product, and you may have manufacturing difficulties, but that does not excuse you acting like a complete a hole.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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