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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 387481 times)
donch
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September 24, 2013, 12:15:56 PM
 #2681

Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

Josh, why do you keep peddling this line? You and BFL have stated two different estimates of your contribution to the network hashrate:

BFL ShoutBox extract:

Quote
M31 - Josh - you must have a pretty good idea of what % of the network is BFL gear. maybe you've said so here and i missed. any idea?
BFL_Josh - It's somewhere between 30 and 45% I think at the moment, depends on what you consider the current network hashrate. That's just an estimate on my part of course.

And yet their press release says:

Quote
We've learned a great deal with our first ASIC. After an initial delay, that processor has been shipping in volume for the past few months and is now powering the majority of the Bitcoin network

So, you "estimate" between 35% and over 50%. For the sake of argument lets go with a conservative 40%. That leaves 60% of hashrate which exists that has come online between the start of the blockchain and the time of your statement. Bitfury, GHash, AsicMiner, Avalon and perhaps unknown mining consortiums have all brought ASIC-grade mining online since October 2012 (your original delivery date). Therefore if you had delivered according to your original plans, there would be 60% of potential future hashrate that you could have let your customers beat to the market. This would have equalled a more than doubling of income for most of your customers.

If you don't understand this, you "don't understand difficulty". Grow up and answer people's questions with numbers and facts, not contradictions.

P.S. Stop trying to send me the Single that I cancelled via Paypal. I'm going to document the whole process in lajz99's refund thread, and you and BFL are going to come out of it looking very bad...

"How are you justifying these as fair use?  They are clearly and unequivocally a copyright violation."
"I really want to know how you justify that under the fair use doctrine?  It does not conform to a single point of fair use."
Josh whining about people reusing his studio portrait shot on this forum. Can you copyright a copyright complaint? All Paypal refunds are final.
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shogunmark
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September 24, 2013, 12:50:32 PM
 #2682

Love it how suddenly their are random newbies with <10 activity saying "My bfl unit is doing great!"
They look like socks for crying out loud, Most people that ordered a jally way the Frig back then, Would USUALLY have an account on this forum.
Odds are thats Where they found out about BFL, These forums.
Am I supposed to believe that people Lurked without an account for the entire time their bfl miner Constantly kept getting delays (average wait time about 8 months?) and only bothered to make a forum account After they recieved the unit, for the seemingly sole purpose of that account being to speak positivly about BFL?


I was a long time lurker, i never had a need to sign up for an account here, i had all the information i already needed to start mining. I only joined yesterday because i wanted to reply to a particular thread. However before i could reply to that thread i needed an account with some activity. This particular board is the only place a "newb" can post.

My sole purpose was not to praise BFL it was to give feedback on my BFL experience.

I did not mine before the BFL because i did not have the money to spend on a high end GPU, the BFL was my gateway. i previously was only buying BTC through the various exchanges.

And if you still dont believe my story, then look me up. I cant post links yet since im a newb, but search Google+ for Mark Swan (not my real name) but go back a few weeks ago and you can see my jalapeno next to my RasPi. if that isnt good enough for credibility, then search my username on XDA forums.
shogunmark
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September 24, 2013, 01:16:46 PM
 #2683

Quote
I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.

Besides your numbers being off, this is something i was already aware of, and since i am not a harcdcore miner, i didnt really care. I KNEW BFL had issues, but i ordered anyway. I KNEW there shipment delays, but i ordered anyway. getting the product i paid for makes me happy regardless. I really have nothing to be pissed about.
honky1492
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September 24, 2013, 01:49:12 PM
 #2684

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

It seems you made big favour to your custommers by not shipping back in November  Grin
Good luck man
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September 24, 2013, 02:26:56 PM
 #2685

I had reversed my transaction for the jalapeno with paypal  , 3 months ago was still possible... thanks god.. other wise it would of been just a "souvenir miner"..

SP8DE - The Game of Chance. Changed.
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September 26, 2013, 07:02:34 PM
 #2686

Quote
I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.







Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

You fucking dirty l;ow life scum bag mother fucker! Your no better than Mr Bedankke or any one at JP Morgan you scum sucking leech! People who ordered single in 2012 and minirigs in 2012 are STILL waiting for ALOT of there units and you are shipping peoples orders in 2013 for jally's! DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE!

FUCK OFF UNDER THE ROCK YOU CRAWLED FROM, REFUND EVERYONE THERE BTC, NOT FUCKING B$ $$$ CONVERSION AT CURRENT RATES AND YOU MAY GET AWAY WITHOUT EVERYONE THINKING YOU ARE THE LOWEST OF LOW LIFE SCUMS!

I accused you early on as been a silver spoon (i bet only child too) and i was bang on the money! You insult your customers and constantly lie. Have you ever spoken a truthful word in your life?

Seriously josh, You are a fucking spunk bubble asshole!
Jim Stone
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September 26, 2013, 09:28:06 PM
 #2687

I myself was VERY excited about those BFL SC things (http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/), but it sounded too good to be true. I was one step before pre-ordering the Mini Rig 'SC' for just $30k, which could deliver 1TH/s (update -> 1.5 TH/s according to the website now!). You know what? Bullshit.

Is butterfly labs mining with those ASICs at the moment? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.0)
Hell no! Do you see some huge raise in hashing power? No.
Would it be beneficial to mine on their own devices? Hell yes! More than just selling them.

Quote from: Desolator link=topic=110290.msg1200110#msg1200110
If circumstantial evidence isn't enough, try simple business logic.  The price is set at $149 for a 3500MH/s chip. At current prices, they would make $149 after about 10.8 days of mining!  So why doesn't Butterfly Labs just run them for 10.8 days instead of selling them?  Then they'd have $149 and the chips lol.  I mean seriously, read those last 2 sentences again, people.  You think they're not mining with them?  I can't be the only one that realizes this.  From a business perspective, if you had an investment that would pay off 200% in a month and you sell it off instead, you're a crazy person.

You know the true reason why they are not mining with them? They can't. They don't have them.

But they have already proven legit! They fullfiled the orders and delivered FPGAs!
Sure they have. Gained your trust. And will take them back. And you will pay even more. You will loose your working FPGAs and also money. Huge money.

Quote
Trade in terms: Qualifying trade in for upgrades can be either an older generation Mini Rig or 25 older generation Singles. Once your new rig is ready for delivery (currently scheduled for November), you'll be notified to ship your trade in units to us. Upon receipt we'll release your new Mini Rig SC for shipment to you.

They still could have runned before..
They could, but why would they? Establish trust. Then run away.
They could have stolen $1M.

Now they have $30M and the hardware. Many of you fell for it.

Quote from: squall1066 link=topic=89685.msg987282#msg987282
Total Orders (By last seen)        7678
   
Orders Tracked         227
Trade-In Orders         66
   
Units Sold   
   
Jalapeno SC            225
Single SC               231
Mini Rig SC               21
   
Extended TH   
   
Jalepeno SC       0.7875
Single SC             9.24
Mini Rig SC               21
   
Grand Total of   31.0275

I still trust them.
Really? What about that the CEO is a fraduster, sentenced to 3 years in prison and is currently released and violating the terms?

Quote from: elux link=topic=110805.msg1206567#msg1206567
September 15, 2010

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. SONNY VLEISIDES

...
The defendant is hereby placed on supervised release, effective immediately, for a term of three years under the following terms and conditions:
...
The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment.

As always, I feel terribly sorry for all you guys.

I'll +1 this..
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September 26, 2013, 10:18:35 PM
 #2688

Quote
I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.







Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

You fucking dirty l;ow life scum bag mother fucker! Your no better than Mr Bedankke or any one at JP Morgan you scum sucking leech! People who ordered single in 2012 and minirigs in 2012 are STILL waiting for ALOT of there units and you are shipping peoples orders in 2013 for jally's! DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE!

FUCK OFF UNDER THE ROCK YOU CRAWLED FROM, REFUND EVERYONE THERE BTC, NOT FUCKING B$ $$$ CONVERSION AT CURRENT RATES AND YOU MAY GET AWAY WITHOUT EVERYONE THINKING YOU ARE THE LOWEST OF LOW LIFE SCUMS!

I accused you early on as been a silver spoon (i bet only child too) and i was bang on the money! You insult your customers and constantly lie. Have you ever spoken a truthful word in your life?

Seriously josh, You are a fucking spunk bubble asshole!

I doubt u can get any lower than Jp morgan ouch that one hurts for Inaba.
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September 26, 2013, 11:03:43 PM
 #2689

I saw a lot of post talking good about BFL in this thread and they are all new user ! LOL they took 30M and still so desperate?

SPARROW
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  Take Control
  Trade Confidently

[/quote]
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September 26, 2013, 11:07:27 PM
 #2690

I saw a lot of post talking good about BFL in this thread and they are all new user ! LOL they took 30M and still so desperate?

Sockpuppet accounts maybe. I dont believe new user could receive their units when many people who ordered in 2012 still waiting  Sad
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September 26, 2013, 11:15:58 PM
 #2691

Cry, cry, cry. You were all fucked - get over it. Do you lose your wallet or purse and still whine over it more than a year later?

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September 26, 2013, 11:24:47 PM
 #2692

Cry, cry, cry. You were all fucked - get over it. Do you lose your wallet or purse and still whine over it more than a year later?

It is important to tell this story over and over again, so newbies can see it and dont get fucked so hard as well...
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September 26, 2013, 11:32:33 PM
 #2693

Cry, cry, cry. You were all fucked - get over it. Do you lose your wallet or purse and still whine over it more than a year later?

It is important to tell this story over and over again, so newbies can see it and dont get fucked so hard as well...

So just bump the thread once a week.

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September 26, 2013, 11:39:39 PM
 #2694

Thats realy what we should do , you don know if theres a lot newbie are still making order there else why did they try to keep rep
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September 26, 2013, 11:44:27 PM
 #2695

Thanks for the heads up bro!

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September 26, 2013, 11:50:10 PM
 #2696

Cry, cry, cry. You were all fucked - get over it. Do you lose your wallet or purse and still whine over it more than a year later?

It is important to tell this story over and over again, so newbies can see it and dont get fucked so hard as well...

Im a newbie and im here because i don't trust the banks or the worthless slave paper in my pocket, im mining to see what the deal is with bitcoin to see how this works under the hood, i appreciate all the info in this forum and it has saved me money. i was keen to order from a few company and after reading the posts here im much the wiser and i havent lost any money. this is important to keep new people mining to support bitcoin and a currency we the people can use and trust

Long Live Bit Coin 
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September 27, 2013, 12:17:55 AM
 #2697

Cry, cry, cry. You were all fucked - get over it. Do you lose your wallet or purse and still whine over it more than a year later?

It is important to tell this story over and over again, so newbies can see it and dont get fucked so hard as well...

Im a newbie and im here because i don't trust the banks or the worthless slave paper in my pocket, im mining to see what the deal is with bitcoin to see how this works under the hood, i appreciate all the info in this forum and it has saved me money. i was keen to order from a few company and after reading the posts here im much the wiser and i havent lost any money. this is important to keep new people mining to support bitcoin and a currency we the people can use and trust

Long Live Bit Coin 


Great ! Its good to hear that . Theres a word " no matter how many bad guy you killed will never enough to save a victim "
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September 27, 2013, 03:12:35 AM
 #2698

BFL refund:

Contact someone @ phishing@commercebank.com.

Ask them about how to report (what you suspect is fraud) at commerce bank.



1) Tell them you paid for an item 1 (or more) months ago and you have not received the item you paid for.

2) Tell them you paid with a wire transfer (for those who paid with a wire transfer only) and that BFL has not sent you the miner you paid for within a [very] reasonable period of time.

3) Add notes about your transaction ID, dates, amounts sent, purpose for contacting them about your wire transfer. Let them know you have already contacted BFL and they have refused offering a refund for their poor business practice.

4) Let them know about the PayPal merchant account situation and that it was one of the Payment Processors that shut them down for ....well I don't know the official reason...

5) Let them know of the sheer number of complaints at the Kansas AG (Attorney General), the Local Police Department and District Attorney has on file.

Report back and let the community know if they give you an email or phone number which is not listed.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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September 27, 2013, 04:53:43 AM
 #2699

Wow, I'm new to all this Bitcoin craze, Thanks... Roll Eyes
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September 27, 2013, 05:11:23 AM
 #2700

Cry, cry, cry. You were all fucked - get over it. Do you lose your wallet or purse and still whine over it more than a year later?

This is what I have done. whats done is done.. I cant change the past only learn from my mistakes... I will never, ever pre pay for something that is not built yet. At the first sign of trouble, run...

I look back and accept some of the responsibility... They were very late getting the FPGA's out the door, so I knew that was a great possibility with the asics (I wont go into the many lies they told me how they were on track for october delivery). The lies that were told to me in between, well, thats another story.. But I should have listened to my instincts. I can only look on the bright side, if I dont, all I do is bring my self and others that know me down.

What BFL has done is inept at best and criminal at worst. When you have the chance, warn others, then let them make the decision. Too bad when I made my order BFL was the only choice at the time. I should have waited just  a little longer and would have invested in asicminer instead.. BFL will get theirs in the end,  I believe in karma. Im not going to let their misgivings ruin my day any longer...

I look at this way, if they had told the truth, everyone would have asked for a refund when they missed their deadline, so they had to lie to keep in business. They are just a bunch of snakes in the grass withering and looking for their next victim.
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