Bitcoin Forum
October 12, 2024, 02:57:15 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 [134] 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 415652 times)
zubelutte
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 129
Merit: 100



View Profile
September 21, 2013, 09:44:18 AM
 #2661

Preorder business model is only good for trusted big companies. I guess many people got tricked to BTC preorder  Embarrassed
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1040


View Profile
September 21, 2013, 09:56:07 AM
Last edit: September 21, 2013, 10:09:11 AM by Puppet
 #2662

Preorder business model is only good for trusted big companies. I guess many people got tricked to BTC preorder  Embarrassed

Preorder is fine if the law is not broken:

Quote
When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

...

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.

....

In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:

a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule
markn
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 81
Merit: 10



View Profile
September 22, 2013, 01:08:37 PM
 #2663

Preorder business model is only good for trusted big companies. I guess many people got tricked to BTC preorder  Embarrassed

Preorder is fine if the law is not broken:

Quote
When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

...

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.

....

In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:

a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Thank you very much for sharing these precious and hard earned information with us!
becoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233



View Profile
September 23, 2013, 07:20:34 AM
 #2664

Preorder is fine if the law is not broken:
Well, as you can see, BFL crooks have broken the law in every possible way!
Jawi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 23, 2013, 09:26:50 AM
 #2665

I was thinking of getting one but I heard about the really terrible delivery time, but now with the more recent USB Asic sticks that now have a reasonable performance, I think ill pass BFL and go for a few of the sticks Tongue



shogunmark
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 23, 2013, 05:47:38 PM
 #2666

I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.
shmoula
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 304
Merit: 250


View Profile WWW
September 23, 2013, 09:05:34 PM
 #2667

I did my preorder in march and my Jalapenos are already at my desk and mining B-)

Habbeat - beat your habits more effective way!!!
Always empty box(no cat also no coin): 1SHM1tiur2iNBCVxCBr7vAJ84PrPZ6d6v
creativex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 23, 2013, 09:11:16 PM
 #2668

What do you mean "already"? You paid for a product in March and received it in September and you're pleased with that service?

Gyrsur
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520


Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206


View Profile WWW
September 23, 2013, 09:34:49 PM
 #2669

I did my preorder in march and my Jalapenos are already at my desk and mining B-)

not very likely according the backlog:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/

TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:22:10 AM
 #2670

Quote
I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.








▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
Fiyasko
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001


Okey Dokey Lokey


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 02:56:14 AM
 #2671

Love it how suddenly their are random newbies with <10 activity saying "My bfl unit is doing great!"
They look like socks for crying out loud, Most people that ordered a jally way the Frig back then, Would USUALLY have an account on this forum.
Odds are thats Where they found out about BFL, These forums.
Am I supposed to believe that people Lurked without an account for the entire time their bfl miner Constantly kept getting delays (average wait time about 8 months?) and only bothered to make a forum account After they recieved the unit, for the seemingly sole purpose of that account being to speak positivly about BFL?

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
September 24, 2013, 03:16:41 AM
 #2672

Quote
I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.







Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Trillium
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 03:37:31 AM
 #2673

Josh stokes the fire he's standing on. Classic. Thread re-invigorated.  Grin

BTC:1AaaAAAAaAAE2L1PXM1x9VDNqvcrfa9He6
TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 03:47:07 AM
 #2674

Quote
Except... that is a complete lie.

What greater honor can there be on these forums than to be accused of lying by the most notorious liar in the BTC uniiverse.

The only words out of your mouth in the last two years that have not been a lie, dumbass, are the words, "I think all BFL customers are assholes", which you haved posted many times, in many forms.

Now I know you will respond to this post, because the only posts you respond to are the ones that threaten the flow of newbies/derps into the pit that is a BFL purchase.

If I had posted a question to you about delivery, or refund, all I would get is a loud silence.

COO of a thieving clusterfuck - wear that title with honor on your way to prison or a civil forfeiture.




▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1040


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
 #2675


Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

So this spreading of the difficulty increase, is a customer service? One you intend to repeat for Monarch customers?

BTW, its nonsense. Yes its true that had you shipped all your preorders as promised, difficulty would have been a lot higher back then. But not as high as it is now, because avalon, asicminer, bitfury and others wouldnt have shipped as much, nor even sold as much. More importantly, more recent customers would have had more accurate picture of the profitability of their miners. And that would have forced lower prices, but surely thats got nothing to do with world record breaking delays, right?
ThomasDB
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 19
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 06:38:41 AM
 #2676

I got a refund a few weeks ago, so lucky..
donch
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 10


Updated ironic image.


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 12:15:56 PM
 #2677

Except... that is a complete lie.

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

Josh, why do you keep peddling this line? You and BFL have stated two different estimates of your contribution to the network hashrate:

BFL ShoutBox extract:

Quote
M31 - Josh - you must have a pretty good idea of what % of the network is BFL gear. maybe you've said so here and i missed. any idea?
BFL_Josh - It's somewhere between 30 and 45% I think at the moment, depends on what you consider the current network hashrate. That's just an estimate on my part of course.

And yet their press release says:

Quote
We've learned a great deal with our first ASIC. After an initial delay, that processor has been shipping in volume for the past few months and is now powering the majority of the Bitcoin network

So, you "estimate" between 35% and over 50%. For the sake of argument lets go with a conservative 40%. That leaves 60% of hashrate which exists that has come online between the start of the blockchain and the time of your statement. Bitfury, GHash, AsicMiner, Avalon and perhaps unknown mining consortiums have all brought ASIC-grade mining online since October 2012 (your original delivery date). Therefore if you had delivered according to your original plans, there would be 60% of potential future hashrate that you could have let your customers beat to the market. This would have equalled a more than doubling of income for most of your customers.

If you don't understand this, you "don't understand difficulty". Grow up and answer people's questions with numbers and facts, not contradictions.

P.S. Stop trying to send me the Single that I cancelled via Paypal. I'm going to document the whole process in lajz99's refund thread, and you and BFL are going to come out of it looking very bad...

"How are you justifying these as fair use?  They are clearly and unequivocally a copyright violation."
"I really want to know how you justify that under the fair use doctrine?  It does not conform to a single point of fair use."
Josh whining about people reusing his studio portrait shot on this forum. Can you copyright a copyright complaint? All Paypal refunds are final.
shogunmark
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 12:50:32 PM
 #2678

Love it how suddenly their are random newbies with <10 activity saying "My bfl unit is doing great!"
They look like socks for crying out loud, Most people that ordered a jally way the Frig back then, Would USUALLY have an account on this forum.
Odds are thats Where they found out about BFL, These forums.
Am I supposed to believe that people Lurked without an account for the entire time their bfl miner Constantly kept getting delays (average wait time about 8 months?) and only bothered to make a forum account After they recieved the unit, for the seemingly sole purpose of that account being to speak positivly about BFL?


I was a long time lurker, i never had a need to sign up for an account here, i had all the information i already needed to start mining. I only joined yesterday because i wanted to reply to a particular thread. However before i could reply to that thread i needed an account with some activity. This particular board is the only place a "newb" can post.

My sole purpose was not to praise BFL it was to give feedback on my BFL experience.

I did not mine before the BFL because i did not have the money to spend on a high end GPU, the BFL was my gateway. i previously was only buying BTC through the various exchanges.

And if you still dont believe my story, then look me up. I cant post links yet since im a newb, but search Google+ for Mark Swan (not my real name) but go back a few weeks ago and you can see my jalapeno next to my RasPi. if that isnt good enough for credibility, then search my username on XDA forums.
shogunmark
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:16:46 PM
 #2679

Quote
I pre-ordered early february, and got my jalapeno about 3 weeks ago. Great little rig, i knew it was going to be a long wait and i was ok with that. Sure their customer service sucks, but i knew that going in to it. I am pleased with my rig.

In the first month of your new rig, you will make about $145, minus electricity.

Imagine how pleased you would have been if you had your rig in February, when you ordered it.  You would have made $1800 in your first month, minus electricity.  BTC were 1/4 then what the are now, but network hash rate was 1/48 then what it is now.  You would have been 12 times as pleased as you are now.

Or imagine how pleased you would be now if you had purchased BTC in February.  Your $250 in February would be $1100 now. 

I wonder where that $850 in BTC went.  I wonder who has it.

Besides your numbers being off, this is something i was already aware of, and since i am not a harcdcore miner, i didnt really care. I KNEW BFL had issues, but i ordered anyway. I KNEW there shipment delays, but i ordered anyway. getting the product i paid for makes me happy regardless. I really have nothing to be pissed about.
honky1492
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 118
Merit: 10


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:49:12 PM
 #2680

The difficulty would be in excess of where it is now in February if we had shipped in November, so he'd make less than he's making now.

It seems you made big favour to your custommers by not shipping back in November  Grin
Good luck man
Pages: « 1 ... 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 [134] 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!