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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 376078 times)
charleshoskinson
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April 22, 2013, 12:53:44 AM
 #561

I get that you don't like BFL. I honestly haven't spent a huge amount of time thinking about the inner workings of the company. I order a 300 dollar piece of hardware in March. I'll see if it is delivered. If not, then we'll have a class action and the CEO will return to prison for fraud. He overpromised. Round 1 is over. As for the difficulty calculations, you don't know the impact the GPU miners turning off their rigs alongside the price increases the bitcoin experiences will have. I agree the difficulty will go up. But it is a mistake to say no money will come.

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Si Robertson
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April 22, 2013, 01:04:09 AM
 #562

Has BFL produced anything
charleshoskinson
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April 22, 2013, 01:13:57 AM
 #563

yes. here is a review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mmTRheUzg

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jml
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April 22, 2013, 01:15:54 AM
 #564

I do not have an issue with a delivery date being pushed back.

When dates are pushed back for several months at a time, I don't think people are willing to wait a year on 100% paid ASIC miners. I waited for about a month and I had to pull back as I was not sure what BFL was playing at.

However, I agree that setbacks can occur in Engineering projects; even more setbacks happens in academia research where the idea doesn't even exist! In this case, developing an ASIC device where they have no experience (previous FPGA experience in repacking them) and outsourced work from other countries to receive parts so that they can piece them together in an assembly line. In this example, they had unforeseen problems; late delivery dates of parts, power consumption problems, etc, that could be foreseen if they had the experience in developing ASIC products. BFL atm is an immature company developing ASIC's which is slowly maturing its own experience.

IMO, BFL is guilty in two aspects:

1) Being too optimistic and publishing renewed dates of delivery; I am always pessimistic when including setbacks in my projects and delivery dates, so I always try to give a conservative figure if failure happens. They are also guilty of publishing a product that was not even built; i.e. just plans or as we call it, half baked ideas.

2) Charging people 100% for a pre-order; this is also considered very bad business when nothing exists or is in the pipeline. BFL should consider adopting a 10% or 20% down payment IF people would get the miners within a month. This would sound more reasonable imo.

"Everything is a matter of degree"
jml
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April 22, 2013, 01:18:51 AM
 #565

Has BFL produced anything

2 Jalaps to date. But sent to devs and reviewers only.

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charleshoskinson
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April 22, 2013, 01:21:08 AM
 #566

It looks like a finished product to me. I see no reason why they cannot mass manufacture the ASIC they shipped to David. If they cannot, then it is fraud. Any further delays should be met with a very hostile lawsuit.

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jml
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April 22, 2013, 01:25:45 AM
 #567

It looks like a finished product to me. I see no reason why they cannot mass manufacture the ASIC they shipped to David. If they cannot, then it is fraud. Any further delays should be met with a very hostile lawsuit.

IMO, they are just teasing noobs in getting more pre-orders. Otherwise, like you said, it "looks" like a finished product.

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xenigma
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April 22, 2013, 01:26:32 AM
 #568

in effect, they charged 1/2 price for the majority of their preorders
jml
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April 22, 2013, 01:33:43 AM
 #569

in effect, they charged 1/2 price for the majority of their preorders

If you mean that they raised prices during April, no, they still charged you 100% of the price at the time. Half price means that the unit costs x and you pay x/2 at the time and you pay the remaining price once units are ready to be shipped.

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charleshoskinson
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April 22, 2013, 01:35:17 AM
 #570

Oh you

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AG992379519
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April 22, 2013, 02:18:24 AM
 #571

That model was clearly described as a demo. 
simplecoins2000
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April 22, 2013, 03:32:59 AM
 #572

Woah, it's good to see others looking out for the community
creativex
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April 22, 2013, 03:42:03 AM
 #573

Woah, it's good to see others looking out for the community

It's often a lost cause. Many see the dollar signs and fail to recognize the huge risks. Time to delivery is what really matters right now and BFL has been jerking everyone's chain for six months. Even when they(BFL) does begin shipping their huge backlog will ensure that months pass between ordering and delivery during which time difficulty will increase, likely dramatically until we reach the point in which ASIC miners are barely profitable. 

darkmule
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April 22, 2013, 04:48:07 AM
 #574

2) Charging people 100% for a pre-order; this is also considered very bad business when nothing exists or is in the pipeline. BFL should consider adopting a 10% or 20% down payment IF people would get the miners within a month. This would sound more reasonable imo.

That's what a real company with actual capital would do.  What BFL appears to have done is collected a bunch of money premised on the concept that there was an actual device in the pipeline, then gambled they'd get enough money to actually get through the development cycle before people panic and start demanding their money back in droves.

That's not really a business model, so much as it is a scam.  That's even if they somehow bumble their way through the process of backing into delivering some kind of device at some point.
Escalator21
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April 22, 2013, 05:41:38 AM
 #575

and the scam is even going on on ebay.  looks like people are selling their pre-orders for 2-3x what they paid for them
mallardknundrum
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April 22, 2013, 05:45:10 AM
 #576

My friend ordered one. I'm waiting for his to arrive or not to see if its a scam. He is the test dummy, then I'll order one if they prove legit!
Balthozar
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April 22, 2013, 06:42:43 AM
 #577

I have heard a lot about these people. I think the only good thing they have going for them is their nice looking website lol.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:balthozar | Earn Devcoins by Writing | Virtual Currency Exchange
DVC:1kFhM8vtEzbZ43Z5wcadPvNrb4xFXbgze | YAC:YHjjwLgjVfsnANTeb9eKeU3rtyKsFNvVCq | BQC:bUu1W2JEQzVrbFvv3EU4gW6KY2J939JDe1 | WDC:WTqa866TFP6d9HWGpYm2AztDNNMFmQ365s | FRC:1N2x7s8F78WiSFCFQPszLqhWsP6Kk1RXVp | NVC:4KcR3Dcmxz1ZDLK3VA9oHxpG4C3oYMCPeV | FTC:6ugwSRQNXQKNb5EVwQVn4CLoZNpiitiQzt | PPC:PSnEL3tmJejkdAAwiBLxSqbCide1voSKXY
johnuk
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April 22, 2013, 10:33:43 AM
 #578

It is very nice looking though....
sartech
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April 22, 2013, 11:13:31 AM
 #579

the big problem is difficulty, when al buyers will have asics   then the difficulty wil be x20...x50   

alle.sello
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April 22, 2013, 11:22:53 AM
 #580

I think BFl is OK Shocked
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