Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[jml]

I do not have an issue with a delivery date being pushed back.

When dates are pushed back for several months at a time, I don't think people are willing to wait a year on 100% paid ASIC miners. I waited for about a month and I had to pull back as I was not sure what BFL was playing at.

However, I agree that setbacks can occur in Engineering projects; even more setbacks happens in academia research where the idea doesn't even exist! In this case, developing an ASIC device where they have no experience (previous FPGA experience in repacking them) and outsourced work from other countries to receive parts so that they can piece them together in an assembly line. In this example, they had unforeseen problems; late delivery dates of parts, power consumption problems, etc, that could be foreseen if they had the experience in developing ASIC products. BFL atm is an immature company developing ASIC's which is slowly maturing its own experience.

IMO, BFL is guilty in two aspects:

1) Being too optimistic and publishing renewed dates of delivery; I am always pessimistic when including setbacks in my projects and delivery dates, so I always try to give a conservative figure if failure happens. They are also guilty of publishing a product that was not even built; i.e. just plans or as we call it, half baked ideas.

2) Charging people 100% for a pre-order; this is also considered very bad business when nothing exists or is in the pipeline. BFL should consider adopting a 10% or 20% down payment IF people would get the miners within a month. This would sound more reasonable imo.

[jml]

Has BFL produced anything

2 Jalaps to date. But sent to devs and reviewers only.

[charleshoskinson]

It looks like a finished product to me. I see no reason why they cannot mass manufacture the ASIC they shipped to David. If they cannot, then it is fraud. Any further delays should be met with a very hostile lawsuit.

[jml]

It looks like a finished product to me. I see no reason why they cannot mass manufacture the ASIC they shipped to David. If they cannot, then it is fraud. Any further delays should be met with a very hostile lawsuit.

IMO, they are just teasing noobs in getting more pre-orders. Otherwise, like you said, it "looks" like a finished product.

[xenigma]

in effect, they charged 1/2 price for the majority of their preorders

[jml]

in effect, they charged 1/2 price for the majority of their preorders

If you mean that they raised prices during April, no, they still charged you 100% of the price at the time. Half price means that the unit costs x and you pay x/2 at the time and you pay the remaining price once units are ready to be shipped.

[charleshoskinson]

Oh you

[AG992379519]

That model was clearly described as a demo. 

[simplecoins2000]

Woah, it's good to see others looking out for the community

[creativex]

Woah, it's good to see others looking out for the community

It's often a lost cause. Many see the dollar signs and fail to recognize the huge risks. Time to delivery is what really matters right now and BFL has been jerking everyone's chain for six months. Even when they(BFL) does begin shipping their huge backlog will ensure that months pass between ordering and delivery during which time difficulty will increase, likely dramatically until we reach the point in which ASIC miners are barely profitable. 

[darkmule]

2) Charging people 100% for a pre-order; this is also considered very bad business when nothing exists or is in the pipeline. BFL should consider adopting a 10% or 20% down payment IF people would get the miners within a month. This would sound more reasonable imo.

That's what a real company with actual capital would do.  What BFL appears to have done is collected a bunch of money premised on the concept that there was an actual device in the pipeline, then gambled they'd get enough money to actually get through the development cycle before people panic and start demanding their money back in droves.

That's not really a business model, so much as it is a scam.  That's even if they somehow bumble their way through the process of backing into delivering some kind of device at some point.

[Escalator21]

and the scam is even going on on ebay.  looks like people are selling their pre-orders for 2-3x what they paid for them

[mallardknundrum]

My friend ordered one. I'm waiting for his to arrive or not to see if its a scam. He is the test dummy, then I'll order one if they prove legit!

[Balthozar]

I have heard a lot about these people. I think the only good thing they have going for them is their nice looking website lol.

[johnuk]

It is very nice looking though....

[sartech]

the big problem is difficulty, when al buyers will have asics   then the difficulty wil be x20...x50   

[alle.sello]

I think BFl is OK

[Explicit]

the big problem is difficulty, when al buyers will have asics   then the difficulty wil be x20...x50

A good point. I dont think that all future owners of ASICs are aware that the mining environment will change significantly after other ASICSs start mining. They are in fact paying big money to achieve *relative hashrate* comparable to a decent GPU, t.i. (an ASIC hashrate / pool hashrate). Heavens!! They will be sooooo disappointed

[ISAWHIM]

Not a scam, just "not good with PR and forecasting".

They do manufacture, they do deliver, they are just having some "serious" issues that are unavoidable, at the moment. Just like AMD, INTEL, NVIDIA, ASUS, and every other real company.

If they never delivered a single item, I would think they were a scam. But the truth of the matter is, they have delivered items previously, and still. Thus, 99% of the "frustration" you are reading about is just that... "frustration", resulting in back-lashing.

Not to mention half the "it is a scam" posts are from people who never even made a purchase, or are competitors, or are "white knights" who are about to loose-out because the $5000 they spent on the 400MH/s rig they just built, is about to become a technology dinosaur. Welcome to reality. Too little, too late. You snooze, you loose. Wrong dollar, wrong day.

Then there are the posts from people just looking for conformation, simply yelling "its a scam" just to get reassurance from others, that it is not.

It is not.

They were clear that this was, "preordering", they were clear that the "delivery date was not set in stone", they are still being clear about "delays"... (Or as some say, excuses. Hippocrates. They ask for clarity and explanations, and get it, then cry "excuses". Grow-up. You made an investment, knowingly, with unexpected return circumstances, same as everyone else, and had/have every chance to "get a refund". ADD is such an annoying thing to have, and broadcast, and only ensures further delays. Go-ahead, keep biting the hand that is going to feed you. It is your loss, not ours. We still have our place in line, and will gladly take your place in line, when you get a refund. No losses, they have thousands and thousands of sales ready to place an order.)

I would love to handle the PR and advertising for them. Since that is the only flaw I can find about them. Trust me, I have looked all over for anything real, that was negative, about them. Only thing I found was ill-informed rants and conspiracy theories from ADD children.

[djspa]

Until now i thought BFL might be a scam and yesterday i found this guy.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mmTRheUzg&feature=player_embedded
 What do u think ??