Why are people scared of taxes?

[nobbynobbynoob]

Regarding the NHS: obviously it is not free since it is paid for via forcible taxation, including the ugly regressive "National Insurance" tax which hits poorer workers hardest. I'm sure quite a few frivolous GP visits would be eliminated if they cost £100 a time.

Yes, the doctors and nurses (and cardiologists, radiologists, pharmacologists and what have you not) who work within the NHS system are always to be lauded - they are the salt of the earth - but because the NHS is a giant and unwieldy State bureaucracy, third only to China's army and India's railways, it does not really have to account for its outgoings properly (it has no customers!) and thus wastes humongous resources/money on such nonsense as "Diversity Officers" and all kinds of pointless bureaucrat/management positions. Indeed, it wastes more on these than it spends on good doctors and nurses.

The failings of the NHS do not in any way vindicate the mess they have in America, though. But that is not a free-market system anyway and hasn't been for many decades, since the federal government decided to intervene via Medicare/Medicaid, and pass more and more regulations that spurred on the growth of HMOs and stuff. (This spoken by a non-expert on US healthcare practices, mind.)

In Britain, though, the NHS is a bit of a holy cow and it is not considered politically acceptable to question it. I don't think that even the somewhat politically conservative UKIP would have the guts to prune the NHS, in honesty, much as Thatcher did not dare touch the NHS or Social Security in any way.

[1714564923]

1714564923

[Lethos]

No it's not entirely free, I did touch on how I pay taxes, but for the amount of cover I get and pay, it's far better than what I could get in the same situation and money, if I lived in any country which doesn't have a public health care system and instead has only private.
Sure when you have what appears to be free cover because it's taken as tax, people do use it more often. Personally I think the opposite is worse, people being afraid to get something checked out early because they are worried about how much it might cost them.
I've also never had a single argument over my cover or what I need to do. That however happens a lot with private insurers.

I believe what the USA are trying to do about getting a public health system in place is good step forward, but their mistake was compromising too much and involving the existing infrastructure of insurance companies. This seems to have lead to a forced insurance, with the same greedy corporations still somewhat in charge. It doesn't solve the problem of making sure no one is without insurance, without huge compromises. It's a failure when they can't see the difference forcing private insurance on people and tax based health cover by default system that doesn't really involve the insurance business at all.

Also many of the poorer workers pay very little in NI contributions (for the NHS), especially if you compare it % to other countries which rely on private only health care systems. They also often get exceptions and have access to the most benefits in the UK. I have been there and done that, as I am self-employeed and disabled individual I did need to use the benefit system at times and those which I still qualify for I still use.
I don't have a huge salary, average at best, but I know based on my dad's research insuring me in the USA would account for about 75% of my salary. Private insurance costs a fortune when they account for risk, NI doesn't, it means tested based on your income. Just like other taxes it works out as fairer. Comparing private to public it is nearer to 1/10th of the cost in public health care, it's one of the reasons why I never moved.
Again the benefit system, just like the NHS is all government funded with taxes, in some way and while some abuse it and it certainly agree it's not perfect it is very useful for those trying to get back on their feet and stops many who would otherwise go into a downwards spiral of debt if all done privately.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

I hate England, but il give it credit where it deserves, the fact we have a NHS is a fantastic thing, lets hope we can keep it intact for all the reasons above (nicely said Lethos) and more.

I dont think people are scared of paying taxes, but its fucking annoying when you see your money being spent on horse shit and thats where I think the fuss is made. Taxes in theory = awesome, in reality, frustrating as hell.

PS. Fuck George Osborne, wouldnt piss on the cunt if he was on fire.

[benjamindees]

No one is really scared of taxes so much as they are scared of governments that use tax monies to murder and terrorize innocent people.

[kokojie]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way. Until that happens, we just have to deal with inefficient government funded services.

[Kontakt]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way.

The problem is that capitalism seems to encourage greed; a sort of 'grab as much as you can get away with' mentality. As long as humans are running the private sector, regulation and honor are going to be a problem. The flaw is not in the system, the flaw is in us.

[Atlas]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way.

The problem is that capitalism seems to encourage greed; a sort of 'grab as much as you can get away with' mentality. As long as humans are running the private sector, regulation and honor are going to be a problem. The flaw is not in the system, the flaw is in us.

So the solution is clear: Take some of the most flawed and power-hungry human beings and put them in positions of power, so they can regulate us.

[Kontakt]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way.

The problem is that capitalism seems to encourage greed; a sort of 'grab as much as you can get away with' mentality. As long as humans are running the private sector, regulation and honor are going to be a problem. The flaw is not in the system, the flaw is in us.

So the solution is clear: Take some of the most flawed and power-hungry human beings and put them in positions of power, so they can regulate us.

The nature of power-hungry people is that they actively seek out power. Generally, they'll find it. I feel like a dictatorship by a BENEVOLENT dictator would be superior, but I have food and shelter, so what right do I have to complain?

[Atlas]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way.

The problem is that capitalism seems to encourage greed; a sort of 'grab as much as you can get away with' mentality. As long as humans are running the private sector, regulation and honor are going to be a problem. The flaw is not in the system, the flaw is in us.

So the solution is clear: Take some of the most flawed and power-hungry human beings and put them in positions of power, so they can regulate us.

Generally, they'll find it. I feel like a dictatorship by a BENEVOLENT dictator would be superior, but I have food and shelter, so what right do I have to complain?

So, in essence, you're a giant pussy. You would happily be raped in the ass by whatever schmuck that comes along as long you get a cage, some food some shelter and overall security. You might as well be a domesticated animal. You know what, you are an animal. You have no will, no integrity, nothing. As long as somebody feeds you, you'll be happy.

Some of us don't play that game. We want freedom to build, play and interact as we choose. We don't need a master. If we go hungry, we get the fuck up and take care of it. We live life on our terms and we value that.

Yes, I am pissed off at you because you would give my freedom away for your sense of security and safety.

[Richy_T]

its more convenient to pay taxes [...]

So other people should be coerced, with threat of force, to pay for your convenience. Gotcha.

wow, why would you support force on people?

I'm not the one advocating taxes.

[Kontakt]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way.

The problem is that capitalism seems to encourage greed; a sort of 'grab as much as you can get away with' mentality. As long as humans are running the private sector, regulation and honor are going to be a problem. The flaw is not in the system, the flaw is in us.

So the solution is clear: Take some of the most flawed and power-hungry human beings and put them in positions of power, so they can regulate us.

Generally, they'll find it. I feel like a dictatorship by a BENEVOLENT dictator would be superior, but I have food and shelter, so what right do I have to complain?

So, in essence, you're a giant pussy. You would happily be raped in the ass by whatever schmuck that comes along as long you get a cage, some food some shelter and overall security. You might as well be a domesticated animal. You know what, you are an animal. You have no will, no integrity, nothing. As long as somebody feeds you, you'll be happy.

Some of us don't play that game. We want freedom to build, play and interact as we choose. We don't need a master. If we go hungry, we get the fuck up and take care of it. We live life on our terms and we value that.

Yes, I am pissed off at you because you would give my freedom away for your sense of security and safety.

Yup, pretty much. As long as I'm happy, why should I care at all about your displeasure with the situation? As long as I can do my research on things that actually matter I will never care significantly about governmental society. In 1000 years, no one will care whatsoever about the people that were obsessed with themselves. People in the future will care about the scientists that made leaps and bounds and got us off this rock. Or they'll all be dead, who knows, it's the future. My WILL, my INTEGRITY and my ABILITY are all focused on actually making something happen. You want to be a radical? Go ahead, break your teeth upon that nut. I'll be satisfied with my lot and actually accomplish something, thank you much. ^.^

[Richy_T]

[snip]

tl;dr version: Net beneficiary of taxes supports taxes.

[Kontakt]

Pretty much. As long as my ivory tower has pork and beans, I'll keep shelling out my taxes. It's a waste of time to complain about the rain.

[Atlas]

Taxes are inherently bad, if it's not, then we should be paying 100% tax and have the government decide who gets what and how much.

Taxes are just a necessary evil, until we figure out a way for the free market to provide us with all the services we need while ensuring greed won't get in the way.

The problem is that capitalism seems to encourage greed; a sort of 'grab as much as you can get away with' mentality. As long as humans are running the private sector, regulation and honor are going to be a problem. The flaw is not in the system, the flaw is in us.

So the solution is clear: Take some of the most flawed and power-hungry human beings and put them in positions of power, so they can regulate us.

Generally, they'll find it. I feel like a dictatorship by a BENEVOLENT dictator would be superior, but I have food and shelter, so what right do I have to complain?

So, in essence, you're a giant pussy. You would happily be raped in the ass by whatever schmuck that comes along as long you get a cage, some food some shelter and overall security. You might as well be a domesticated animal. You know what, you are an animal. You have no will, no integrity, nothing. As long as somebody feeds you, you'll be happy.

Some of us don't play that game. We want freedom to build, play and interact as we choose. We don't need a master. If we go hungry, we get the fuck up and take care of it. We live life on our terms and we value that.

Yes, I am pissed off at you because you would give my freedom away for your sense of security and safety.

As long as I'm happy, why should I care at all about your displeasure with the situation?

[Richy_T]

Pretty much. As long as my ivory tower has pork and beans, I'll keep shelling out my taxes. It's a waste of time to complain about the rain.

I wasn't actually replying to you. But if the hat fits...

[Kontakt]

To Atlas:

Welcome to 'Merica. Besides, isn't this exactly what you advocate with AnaCap?

To Richy_T

Yeah, in an environment without any sort of federal government, no one would fund research groups like NASA. No one seems to grasp how essential it is that we move out into space. I feel like we're the one that won't move out of his parent's house. I also enjoy wearing hats.

[Atlas]

To Atlas:

Welcome to 'Merica. Besides, isn't this exactly what you advocate with AnaCap?

To Richy_T

Yeah, in an environment without any sort of federal government, no one would fund research groups like NASA. No one seems to grasp how essential it is that we move out into space. I feel like we're the one that won't move out of his parent's house. I also enjoy wearing hats.

Have you noticed that private space companies are doing most of the innovation right now and they have been more efficient than NASA?

[Richy_T]

To Atlas:

Welcome to 'Merica. Besides, isn't this exactly what you advocate with AnaCap?

To Richy_T

Yeah, in an environment without any sort of federal government, no one would fund research groups like NASA. No one seems to grasp how essential it is that we move out into space. I feel like we're the one that won't move out of his parent's house. I also enjoy wearing hats.

Have you noticed that private space companies are doing most of the innovation right now and they have been more efficient than NASA?

+1. One of the members of one of the boards I read is heavily involved in that stuff. It turns out that one of the biggest hurdles to private exploration of space is...



wait for it...



government.

Whoda thunk it?


Remind me which department was it that Wilbur and Orville were working for, again?

[Kontakt]

To Atlas:

Welcome to 'Merica. Besides, isn't this exactly what you advocate with AnaCap?

To Richy_T

Yeah, in an environment without any sort of federal government, no one would fund research groups like NASA. No one seems to grasp how essential it is that we move out into space. I feel like we're the one that won't move out of his parent's house. I also enjoy wearing hats.

Have you noticed that private space companies are doing most of the innovation right now and they have been more efficient than NASA?

They still haven't sent out any sorts of rovers or exploratory satellites, which are my specific areas of interest, along with colonies. I'd be perfectly happy to work at a private company if they offered better pay and a comparative goals, as well as a doctorate program. I just like NASA better, because it isn't focused on a profit. Private space companies have to offer a revenue generating service as their primary concern. If there are companies that are research oriented, please give me a link and I'll look into them. I'm always open to new companies I can apply for an internship at.

[sturle]

Taxes are useful instruments to foster economic growth.

If the poor have no security net they will save as much as possible of their income for a rainy day.  By taxing the rich and establishing a security for the poor, the poor will spend more of their money on luxuries like chocolate, TVs and cars.  This is positive for the producers of chocolate, TVs cars.  Those are usually rich, but who cares.  Their market grows, and they can expand, employ more people, etc.  Everyone benefits.

If you take away the taxes, and the security net for the lowest workers and unemployed, they will spend less money on everything.  They may need to pay for insurances and similar instead, can not afford to develop their talents, and the economy as a whole will suffer.

Taxes can be overdone, of course, but some taxation is necessary for a sound economy.